DO NOT Wear A Surgical Mask UNLESS...

Believe me when I say I am not trolling you, but can you tell us what the heck is a widget?    It all made sense right up to the ending.

The doctor from Lancet that's reporting on the virus recommends that you don't need a mask if you don't come in contact with people that might have the disease.
He recommends that you hole up and wait until the infection passes.
You would need supplies in order to do this but that would only entail a few cartons of instant noodles, water, and some rice and/or beans.

THIGV wrote:

Believe me when I say I am not trolling you, but can you tell us what the heck is a widget?    It all made sense right up to the ending.

It's Vietnamese's English word for "tools"

Ciambella wrote:

THIGV wrote:

Believe me when I say I am not trolling you, but can you tell us what the heck is a widget?    It all made sense right up to the ending.

It's Vietnamese's English word for "tools"

I thought so maybe.

Meaning the different tools (maybe brushes, etc) a person might use for hygiene?

Jim-Minh wrote:

The doctor from Lancet that's reporting on the virus recommends that you don't need a mask if you don't come in contact with people that might have the disease.
He recommends that you hole up and wait until the infection passes.
You would need supplies in order to do this but that would only entail a few cartons of instant noodles, water, and some rice and/or beans.

Also, as I already posted in another thread:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Everyone talks about masks.

Nobody talks about handwashing.

Listen to the doctor:

want-to-avoid-virus-forget-face-masks-top-airline-doctor-says

Q: What's important if you are on a plane to ensure you don't get infected?

A: Hand hygiene -- because contrary to what people think, the hands are the way that these viruses most efficiently spread. Top of the list is frequent hand washing, hand sanitizing, or both. Avoid touching your face. If you cough or sneeze, it's important to cover your face with a sleeve. Better yet, a tissue to be disposed of carefully, and then sanitizing the hands afterward. Washing your hands and drying them is the best procedure. When that's not easy to do, alcohol-based sanitizer is a good second-best.

Q: Does wearing masks and gloves help prevent infections?

A: First of all, masks. There's very limited evidence of benefit, if any, in a casual situation. Masks are useful for those who are unwell to protect other people from them. But wearing a mask all the time will be ineffective. It will allow viruses to be transmitted around it, through it and worse still, if it becomes moist it will encourage the growth of viruses and bacteria. Gloves are probably even worse, because people put on gloves and then touch everything they would have touched with their hands. So it just becomes another way of transferring micro-organisms. And inside the gloves, your hands get hot and sweaty, which is a really good environment for microbes to grow.

THIGV wrote:

Believe me when I say I am not trolling you, but can you tell us what the heck is a widget?    It all made sense right up to the ending.

I'm also guessing fingernail clippers fit the description.

Jim-Minh wrote:

The doctor from Lancet that's reporting on the virus recommends that you don't need a mask if you don't come in contact with people that might have the disease.
He recommends that you hole up and wait until the infection passes.
You would need supplies in order to do this but that would only entail a few cartons of instant noodles, water, and some rice and/or beans.

Along that same line, I just saw this in my Google news feed (re: Singapore):

fairprice-limits-purchases-of-paper-products-rice-instant-noodles-and-vegetables

Wuhan virus now deadlier than SARS and it's just getting started...

Favorite commenter:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWEWqRXZQXQ

OB - Happy to see limiting - Should have had well-stocked larder a long time ago.

Jim-Minh wrote:

Wuhan virus now deadlier than SARS and it' just getting started...

Favorite commenter:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWEWqRXZQXQ

OB - Happy to see limiting - Should have had well-stocked larder a long time ago.

Mine very well stocked with lots of staples...except Lard... 😉

OBwan - LOL - should have seen that coming...

The larder was originally a cool room or cellar for storing meats, especially meats put down in large barrels or crocks of lard—hence the name. ... The wet larder was used not only for meats stored in lard, but also as a holding room for uncooked meat, game, and vegetables.

In the Ministry of Health directive 1, a mask should be worn to protect the wearer around the sick. Makes sense, self-preservation.

Directive 2 is more interesting, and I can see two justifications for it. In a confined public place, given a disease with 2 week incubation, you don't know who may be contagious. So you mask up to protect yourself.
But everyone knows air flows through a mask in two directions. So by wearing a mask, a person, even if healthy, is signaling to others that "my mask is protecting you, I am not a threat"

Therefore, I propose 2A as:
"Do not Wear A Surgical Mask unless you enter a space where people feel threatened by you for not conforming".  As in China videos where we see the odd maskless maverick rounded up.

Every store and resto I've been in lately, employees are masked. When I go in unmasked, I can't see their faces, are they ok with that? maybe, maybe not.  But if I simply wear a mask, I don't need to wonder. Rut roh! now I have violated directive 3!  Just like all these sales and service employees are violating directive 3.  I really don't see directive 3 as feasible given human nature, sorry.

Interestingly, before coronavirus, occasionally you'd see people in banks, offices, stores wearing a blue surgical mask. (And not because they just arrived on their motorbike and didn't remove their sun-wear. )  This usage is what I call an Asian custom by those who are sick but need to go out. As a courtesy they wear masks to protect the public. A nice civic practice. Asian because I've seen this custom in several SEAsian countries, never in the US or Australia.

gobot wrote:

In the Ministry of Health directive 1, a mask should be worn to protect the wearer around the sick. Makes sense, self-preservation.

Directive 2 is more interesting, and I can see two justifications for it. In a confined public place, given a disease with 2 week incubation, you don't know who may be contagious. So you mask up to protect yourself.
But everyone knows air flows through a mask in two directions. So by wearing a mask, a person, even if healthy, is signaling to others that "my mask is protecting you, I am not a threat"

Therefore, I propose 2A as:
"Do not Wear A Surgical Mask unless you enter a space where people feel threatened by you for not conforming".  As in China videos where we see the odd maskless maverick rounded up.

Every store and resto I've been in lately, employees are masked. When I go in unmasked, I can't see their faces, are they ok with that? maybe, maybe not.  But if I simply wear a mask, I don't need to wonder. Rut roh! now I have violated directive 3!  Just like all these sales and service employees are violating directive 3.  I really don't see directive 3 as feasible given human nature, sorry.

Interestingly, before coronavirus, occasionally you'd see people in banks, offices, stores wearing a blue surgical mask. (And not because they just arrived on their motorbike and didn't remove their sun-wear. )  This usage is what I call an Asian custom by those who are sick but need to go out. As a courtesy they wear masks to protect the public. A nice civic practice. Asian because I've seen this custom in several SEAsian countries, never in the US or Australia.

Good thoughts.

However, one thing I have NEVER seen (before the virus outbreak or currently) is a Vietnamese person in public (restaurant, bank, hotel, high speed taxi boat, shuttle van, airplane or on a train) pull out their personal hand sanitizer and clean their hands.

I have seen a few people using baby wipes, which have no antibacterial or antiviral properties.

Which is the point of this thread:

Wear a mask or don't wear a mask, but please don't let the wearing of a mask cause you to feel so secure that you forget how important it is to keep your hands sanitized.

Ciambella wrote:

THIGV wrote:

Believe me when I say I am not trolling you, but can you tell us what the heck is a widget?    It all made sense right up to the ending.

It's Vietnamese's English word for "tools"

I wonder if it is something the Vietnamese learned from US GI's in the 60's and slightly misunderstood.  I have only heard the term used in a satirical or metaphorical way as in "What do they make there, left-handed widgets?"

On the topic of the virus, I saw on BBC that the virus is expected to wind down naturally by late April.  I know that may look like a long time away but it isn't in the big picture of things.  Hawaii was one of only a few US cities with direct flights from mainland China, but those are all suspended now.  There are no cases yet in Hawaii but a quarantine station is set up at Pearl Harbor and seven travelers are being monitored in home quarantine.  I could add that wearing a mask is a courtesy here too, but that is probably because it is an Asian custom.  Also it is illegal to wear a mask in a bank in the US.  In any real scenario, the odds of the bank being robbed by a person wearing a mask must vastly exceed the odds of introducing the virus.

The American that checked into the hotel close to my wife's house after spending a two-hour layover in Wuhan is doing better. Before he realized he had the virus, he visited a bank in District One. A teller at that bank came down with the virus a few days later. I don't know anything about her condition. But it does show how incredibly infectious the virus is.
I am impressed with Vietnam's management of the disease. My wife is supposed to leave Saigon on Tuesday and is returning through Japan. I'll feel much better to have her here. But we still have families on both sides in Vietnam to worry about.

Jim-Minh wrote:

The American that checked into the hotel close to my wife's house after spending a two-hour layover in Wuhan is doing better. Before he realized he had the virus, he visited a bank in District One. A teller at that bank came down with the virus a few days later. I don't know anything about her condition. But it does show how incredibly infectious the virus is.
I am impressed with Vietnam's management of the disease. My wife is supposed to leave Saigon on Tuesday and is returning through Japan. I'll feel much better to have her here. But we still have families on both sides in Vietnam to worry about.

I have to wonder if the teller was contaminated through the air or by hand-to-hand contact...

I could see wearing a mask in an area dense with people, the disease is airborne passed along with physical contact. Just keep one's hands away from mouth, nose and eyes.

I was speaking with a lady in the checkout at Walmart today, she said that her friend was airlifted from China and is now in quarantine.

The last report I saw was that 35 Million people are quarantined in China.

So, as the virus is contagious during incubation and there's no way to know who's got it or not, a mask (plus hand sani) are a must have(?) (or have I missed the point made by these SMS?)

Interesting new information about the Wuhan virus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eTzv2_6xLI

From Dr. John Campbell

FAR worse than what has been reported.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Ho96UKfYA

Chengdu now on lockdown - 6th largest city in China.

High concentrations of sulfur dioxide in Wuhan from cremations.

Britan, France, Spain, Shanghai and others evacuating their people.

Wuhan virus is FAR more contagious than SARS or MERS.

Chinese officials are warning about aerosol infection which means the virus can be spread much farther than the two meter limit of droplet dispersal.

Too many red flag issues to itemize here - watch the video.

Jim-Minh wrote:

FAR worse than what has been reported.

*sigh*

I've got no right to expect anything I guess.

But you all were having such a good time in those two other threads talking about things like this that I created this thread so we could get back to the basics of handwashing and personal hygiene.

But if this is where the audience for drama is...

<<< But if this is where the audience for drama is... >>>

I just don't want anyone to get caught flat-footed.

The possibility of transmission by aerosols is truly grim.

This could set China back a generation and could wreck the world's economy.

Put up several weeks worth of food and prepare for a month of isolation.

Jim-Minh wrote:

This could set China back a generation and could wreck the world's economy.

Or it could be all finished in 60 days.  The number of recovered patients in Wuhan now exceeds the number of deaths.  This is important because it means that the opportunity population for the virus is shrinking locally.  These enzootic viruses all have a natural increase and crash cycle because humans are not the natural reservoir, as opposed to common flu viruses that are primarily human in nature where a low level continuously circulates.

Jim-Minh wrote:

<<< But if this is where the audience for drama is... >>>

I just don't want anyone to get caught flat-footed.

The possibility of transmission by aerosols is truly grim.

This could set China back a generation and could wreck the world's economy.

Put up several weeks worth of food and prepare for a month of isolation.

Yeah, of course, because if you don't tell us who will?

By all means, spray where you want to spray.

Mike Wagner wrote:

So, as the virus is contagious during incubation and there's no way to know who's got it or not, a mask (plus hand sani) are a must have(?) (or have I missed the point made by these SMS?)

I hear your need for a bottom line, and those are indeed good protective measures.

However, the point of the SMS I quoted is that most everyone is trying to find and wear masks, but once they put on the mask, they develop a false sense of security and allow their MOST-Important hand hygiene to lapse.

Yesterday I rode in a taxi.

The driver was wearing a mask, so I was safe, right?

Except I touched door handles outside and inside the cab.

I also touched the seat sliding lever under the seat.

I would have touched money given to me by the driver, but I told him to keep the change from the money I handed him which he accepted without any hand protection.

After I exited the taxi I used my hand sanitizer.

Inside the bank, the lady at the desk making adjustments to my account was wearing a mask, so I was safe, right?

Except she handled my passport and gave it back to me.

She also handed me a pen and a form to sign, both of which I returned to her.

She didn't do anything to protect her hands, but when I left I sanitized my hands and my passport.

Then another taxi ride, where I went through the same routine as before.

Just because a driver is wearing a mask, I don't trust him or his most recent customer.

Inside Lottemart, I used my hand sanitizer to disinfect the handle on the shopping cart.

The woman who weighed my Granny Smith apples didn't use any hand protection such as disposable gloves.

The lady who custom cut some salmon for me was the first person I encountered who used gloves.

The checkout teller didn't use gloves when taking and scanning and returning my loyalty card, or when doing the same with my credit card or handing me a receipt and a pen with which to sign it.

As I left the store I sanitized my hands and the two plastic cards.

One more taxi cab ride home where my kind neighbor (not wearing a mask) helped me with my grocery bags.

When I returned to my apartment, I sanitized my hands again, took the items the teller had touched from the bags and wiped them down with wet wipes, also rinsing my produce to air dry as I always do.

I disposed of all the bags in the trash and again, disinfected my hands a final time.

Or, maybe I didn't do all of the things I've mentioned, and maybe, like most people, I allowed my unsanitized hands to wander to my face inside one of the taxis or inside the bank or inside Lottemart or after I got home.

Perhaps if I'd just been wearing a mask I might not have been so cautious, and maybe I was way over cautious.

But in that entire morning I didn't see one person (except for the butcher)--including drivers or bank tellers or other store customers--using any kind of hand hygiene practices.

So in reality, no one is following the bottom line you mentioned, and THAT was the point of the SMS message.

As I've mentioned, I'm a Registered Nurse, so "maybe" I'm over-dramatizing the problem.

But I'm looking at this the way we were taught in our Public Health Nursing courses, and just trying to hammer home that there is simple primary protection available that very few people are using.

After touching something you feel uncomfortable or is an unknown - don't touch your face and wash your hands with soap. If I am using a touchscreen (ie ATM), I use my finger joint not the tip to do the input. Switching on/off light wall switch with my elbow. If I need to touch a door handle, wrap with a tissue, or use the bottom of my shirt to grab the handle.

It is fortunate that we have the technology and historical data to deal with this bugger - detection and quarantine. I don't think we are looking at the Spanish flu of 1918. That was a mess of a virus and improper medical practices (dirty hospitals).

I was chatting today with a young lady drawing my blood - she is concerned about the virus and is considering wearing a mask at work.

I agree, hand sanitizer or soap and water are by far the number one on the list, masks come second.

I just heard that scientists have found out that the incubation period can last up to 24 days (10 more than thought originally). (And the virus is transmissible during that period.)
These measures are what will prevent an outbreak. I just wish people cared more about basic hygiene, especially now as it is an urgent matter.

A bit late for that. The outbreak has alraedy happened. An expert epidemiologist says the virus could infect 80% of the worlds population. Looks like its curtains.

Thepakkizeggypharts wrote:

A bit late for that. The outbreak has alraedy happened. An expert epidemiologist says the virus could infect 80% of the worlds population. Looks like its curtains.

A bit late for what?

It really, REALLY helps if you use the quote function so we know to whom it is you are replying.

Next to the word "reply", click the three dots
•••
and choose "quote".

Thanks.

Are there super-spreaders of the new coronavirus?
It seems so. The third British case, after the first two diagnosed in York, was a man in his 50s who contracted the coronavirus infection at a conference in Singapore. He then traveled to France where he stayed with his family in a ski chalet in the Alpine resort of Les Contamines-Montjoie. Five people who were in the chalet, including a boy of nine, have tested positive for coronavirus since the man came back to the UK on an EasyJet flight and was diagnosed in Brighton. Another Briton who was on holiday in the chalet flew back to his home in Mallorca and was admitted to hospital in Palma. The chief medical officer said four more people had tested positive in England – all of whom were also on the skiing holiday in France.


Coronavirus: infection 'could reach 60% of the population if unchecked'
Exclusive: public health epidemiologist says other countries should consider adopting China-style containment measures     Source - The Guardian

Thepakkizeggypharts wrote:

A bit late for that. The outbreak has alraedy happened. An expert epidemiologist says the virus could infect 80% of the worlds population. Looks like its curtains.

There are so many opinions from so many experts. You believe what you want to believe. WHO reckon it has peaked in terms of acceleration compared to infections. Somewhere between your paranoia   and the lowest assessments lays the truth. Common sense, personal hygiene and caution is all that's needed. Mortality rate across the globe compared to overall infections is still in the 2.4 range. Curtains? Hardly.
We are not talking about the plague or Black Death for heavens sake. Get a grip.

Interesting talk. From a doctor's view, the yearly respiratory flu in the USA kills 10,000 people annually. Yet getting patients to take it seriously can be difficult. I get a endless series of questions about corona - not the beer. In a country 4 times the population of USA, there are less than 1000 deaths. I hope people can take flu season next year as seriously as the corona virus. It would make for a lot fewer deaths.

And I thought people in Asia wear masks because of their bad breath.

QuidProQuo wrote:

And I thought people in Asia wear masks because of their bad breath.

13,000 new infections overnight.
60,000 infections worldwide.
NBC News
New Video Shows China's ‘Wartime Controls' To Fight Coronavirus Outbreak | NBC Nightly News
227,000 views with no URL to vet

Hello? Earth to Expat, earth to Expat, come in Expat.

Even with these new numbers the fatality rate is still lower than SARS or MERS. But it is higher than the seasonal flu. The actual rates are from CDC and WHO. These is a lot of disagreement about how to calculate the number of cases confirmed, number of recovered cases and the number of deaths. Statistics can be fooling.
In the case of SARS the original fatality rate was thought to be 4 % by WHO but ended up at closer to 10%.
Take it seriously but no panic button yet.

THIGV wrote:

Believe me when I say I am not trolling you, but can you tell us what the heck is a widget?    It all made sense right up to the ending.

A widget is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsiWQ4xm5-Q

Unless you are British it'll probably fly straight over your head.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

THIGV wrote:

Believe me when I say I am not trolling you, but can you tell us what the heck is a widget?    It all made sense right up to the ending.

It's Vietnamese's English word for "tools"

I thought so maybe.

Meaning the different tools (maybe brushes, etc) a person might use for hygiene?

I could be wrong, but I think the word ‘widget' was used incorrectly here. I only know it from IT, it's a word for little helper apps that show up on the desktop of your operating system. It's a relatively new word and a contraction of ‘window' and ‘gadget'; a window gadget.

Kurterino wrote:

I could be wrong, but I think the word ‘widget' was used incorrectly here. I only know it from IT, it's a word for little helper apps that show up on the desktop of your operating system. It's a relatively new word[emphasis mine] and a contraction of ‘window' and ‘gadget'; a window gadget.

Exactly how young are you?      If you were alive before 1980, you would know that the word existed before the advent of computers.