Buying a condo in Vietnam-what to look out for, what could go wrong?

2 questions. I am on cusp of this move in the next few months so am asking in case anyone has any experience that might be useful. Thanks for any replies and insights. I am quite unsure about it all. I see the pink book should be in my hands, the sales agreement too.

I see agents getting back to me super fast. They worry me. They seem eager to sell. How can we  trust them?

I note there is over supply of condos in some districts. Any other tips or warnings greatly appreciated

Fancybear :

2 questions. I am on cusp of this move in the next few months so am asking in case anyone has any experience that might be useful. Thanks for any replies and insights. I am quite unsure about it all. I see the pink book should be in my hands, the sales agreement too.

I see agents getting back to me super fast. They worry me. They seem eager to sell. How can we  trust them?

I note there is over supply of condos in some districts. Any other tips or warnings greatly appreciated

As a non Viet, get a lawyer, eventually thats what I did & it was money well spent. I could write a book on my experiences. Dont trust any property selling agents here, most  but not all are free lance working on commission (up to 2 % of the sale price) & they will tell you anything to get a sale. I have first hand experience & its a mine field out there believe me.
Before you buy, have a really good look at the apartment internally & the apartnent block. Even on high end apartments dont expect the quality of workmanship you would see in the West or say Singapore, its just not the same here.

Buy directly from the developer or work with a good agent (recommended firsthand).

Poor building fabric and lack of later maintenance are probably the biggest worries.

You'll also have to wait a long time for the Rosa Book on a newly developed project, or in the worst case you'll never get it.

The contracts and receipts are usually all in Vietnamese. You should have someone who can translate the documents and understand the content.

In the beginning you might pay a 50 million dong deposit and receive a pink receipt in Vietnamese. Not a very good feeling.
With the deposit you may not know which unit you are really getting.

Later you can choose the unit and have to sign a preliminary contract. After that you lose the deposit if you decide differently later.

Later you have to pay about 90%.
You go to the bank, make a bank transfer and go with the bank receipt to the developer and receive a pink receipt and later the contract.

You pay the rest of 10% after you have received the Rosa Book.

In the contract (maybe 10-20 pages) everything should be settled. Also what happens if the deadlines are not met. Normally the developer has to pay a penalty.
The amounts always include information about taxes and VAT.
If the contract does not regulate everything in detail, forget it.

Many times you have to do the interior work yourself, which could cost up to 1 billion.

AkaMaverick :

Buy directly from the developer or work with a good agent (recommended firsthand).

Poor building fabric and lack of later maintenance are probably the biggest worries.

You'll also have to wait a long time for the Rosa Book on a newly developed project, or in the worst case you'll never get it.

The contracts and receipts are usually all in Vietnamese. You should have someone who can translate the documents and understand the content.

In the beginning you might pay a 50 million dong deposit and receive a pink receipt in Vietnamese. Not a very good feeling.
With the deposit you may not know which unit you are really getting.

Later you can choose the unit and have to sign a preliminary contract. After that you lose the deposit if you decide differently later.

Later you have to pay about 90%.
You go to the bank, make a bank transfer and go with the bank receipt to the developer and receive a pink receipt and later the contract.

You pay the rest of 10% after you have received the Rosa Book.

In the contract (maybe 10-20 pages) everything should be settled. Also what happens if the deadlines are not met. Normally the developer has to pay a penalty.
The amounts always include information about taxes and VAT.
If the contract does not regulate everything in detail, forget it.

Many times you have to do the interior work yourself, which could cost up to 1 billion.

This is why many apartments are sold as an empty shell, the owners get their own contractors to do the fitout.

AkaMaverick :

Buy directly from the developer or work with a good agent (recommended firsthand).

Poor building fabric and lack of later maintenance are probably the biggest worries.

You'll also have to wait a long time for the Rosa Book on a newly developed project, or in the worst case you'll never get it.

The contracts and receipts are usually all in Vietnamese. You should have someone who can translate the documents and understand the content.

In the beginning you might pay a 50 million dong deposit and receive a pink receipt in Vietnamese. Not a very good feeling.
With the deposit you may not know which unit you are really getting.

Later you can choose the unit and have to sign a preliminary contract. After that you lose the deposit if you decide differently later.

Later you have to pay about 90%.
You go to the bank, make a bank transfer and go with the bank receipt to the developer and receive a pink receipt and later the contract.

You pay the rest of 10% after you have received the Rosa Book.

In the contract (maybe 10-20 pages) everything should be settled. Also what happens if the deadlines are not met. Normally the developer has to pay a penalty.
The amounts always include information about taxes and VAT.
If the contract does not regulate everything in detail, forget it.

Many times you have to do the interior work yourself, which could cost up to 1 billion.

Agree 100% but as a non Vietnamese, I still advise a lawyer. It cost me 2kusd in fee,s but I found it well worth it. He & his assistant attended all the meetings with agent, building contractor, notary etc & without him I was lost (& my Viet GF was even more in the dark). I tried myself to start with but became decidedly uneasy as time went on with the selling agent & the obvious lies she was telling me. All documents relating to the purchase he had translated into English & even notarised letters detailing what will happen to the apartment when I die.

Poor building fabric and lack of later maintenance are probably the biggest worries........Yes & non completion of the surrounding area gardens, shops etc etc.
As a rule of thumb from a guy who has lived here, bought & built property here when all the apartments are sold & the developer has the cash, they basically walk away & the building management company........well thats a whole different topic!
Thats been my experiance anyways, I am sure there will be some who have found it easy, but not many Westerners I think.

moscowmetro :
AkaMaverick :

Buy directly from the developer or work with a good agent (recommended firsthand).

Poor building fabric and lack of later maintenance are probably the biggest worries.

You'll also have to wait a long time for the Rosa Book on a newly developed project, or in the worst case you'll never get it.

The contracts and receipts are usually all in Vietnamese. You should have someone who can translate the documents and understand the content.

In the beginning you might pay a 50 million dong deposit and receive a pink receipt in Vietnamese. Not a very good feeling.
With the deposit you may not know which unit you are really getting.

Later you can choose the unit and have to sign a preliminary contract. After that you lose the deposit if you decide differently later.

Later you have to pay about 90%.
You go to the bank, make a bank transfer and go with the bank receipt to the developer and receive a pink receipt and later the contract.

You pay the rest of 10% after you have received the Rosa Book.

In the contract (maybe 10-20 pages) everything should be settled. Also what happens if the deadlines are not met. Normally the developer has to pay a penalty.
The amounts always include information about taxes and VAT.
If the contract does not regulate everything in detail, forget it.

Many times you have to do the interior work yourself, which could cost up to 1 billion.

Agree 100% but as a non Vietnamese, I still advise a lawyer. It cost me 2kusd in fee,s but I found it well worth it. He & his assistant attended all the meetings with agent, building contractor, notary etc & without him I was lost (& my Viet GF was even more in the dark). I tried myself to start with but became decidedly uneasy as time went on with the selling agent & the obvious lies she was telling me. All documents relating to the purchase he had translated into English & even notarised letters detailing what will happen to the apartment when I die.

Poor building fabric and lack of later maintenance are probably the biggest worries........Yes & non completion of the surrounding area gardens, shops etc etc.
As a rule of thumb from a guy who has lived here, bought & built property here when all the apartments are sold & the developer has the cash, they basically walk away & the building management company........well thats a whole different topic!
Thats been my experiance anyways, I am sure there will be some who have found it easy, but not many Westerners I think.

Best 50 million you could have spent here. The system here is a total failure and open to corruption. I have bought 8 blocks of land here and I shake my head at how the paperwork is done.

Agents here are the pits, nothing but lieing, conniving arseholes.🤯

moscowmetro :

... still advise a lawyer. It cost me 2kusd in fee,s but I found it well worth it.

We didn't have a lawyer because I couldn't find a good lawyer.

The purchase and shortly afterwards the sale (we had another opportunity at short notice) were handled directly by the developer's employees.
The only problem was that the bank that handled the sale refused to transfer the money to a foreigner's Vietnamese account (although the properties contracts was in the name of my wife and in my name).

Then we bought land near my wife's parents. We did all this directly with the landowner and my wife's family. Hand-written contract, official visits, bank visits and finally the changed Rosa books in our hands.

But this all cost me a lot of nerves, because we also bought a piece of farmland which we wanted to rezone. But then I noticed that in the farmland part the name of my wife's mother's brother was entered in the Pink Book. I recognized later that the family did this because apparently only farm land owners can buy new farmland.

After I found that out, I was very angry because (typically Vietnamese) the family says all the time laughing that everything is no problem (because of this unspeakable behavior I was already exposed to some problems and since then I don't believe anymore what Vietnamese people advises) and told my wife that I don't accept that. She then found someone who legally did all change, but through detours (very complicated and I think I understood 90% of it).

In short, now we have 3 pink books (2 for building land and one for farmland) in my wife's name.

The whole thing was very complex and would have required a really capable real estate lawyer.

If you think that your lawyer knows all about properties, I would be happy if you would send me his data via PM.

At the latest if I want to sell the land and house in a few years, I would need a good lawyer who can legally ensure that part of the money would be transferred directly abroad (the money for the land and house originally came from abroad).

And he should also accept that I don't want the common praxis with a deeper sales price for save taxes.
The common Vietnamese will laughing at me because that.

It's sometime not easy in Vietnam if you want to abide the law.

AkaMaverick :
moscowmetro :

... still advise a lawyer. It cost me 2kusd in fee,s but I found it well worth it.

We didn't have a lawyer because I couldn't find a good lawyer.

The purchase and shortly afterwards the sale (we had another opportunity at short notice) were handled directly by the developer's employees.
The only problem was that the bank that handled the sale refused to transfer the money to a foreigner's Vietnamese account (although the properties contracts was in the name of my wife and in my name).

Then we bought land near my wife's parents. We did all this directly with the landowner and my wife's family. Hand-written contract, official visits, bank visits and finally the changed Rosa books in our hands.

But this all cost me a lot of nerves, because we also bought a piece of farmland which we wanted to rezone. But then I noticed that in the farmland part the name of my wife's mother's brother was entered in the Pink Book. I recognized later that the family did this because apparently only farm land owners can buy new farmland.

After I found that out, I was very angry because (typically Vietnamese) the family says all the time laughing that everything is no problem (because of this unspeakable behavior I was already exposed to some problems and I don't believe anymore what Vietnamese people advises since then) and told my wife that I don't accept that. She then found someone who did all change legally, but through detours (very complicated and I think I understood 90% of it).

In short, now we have 3 pink books (2 for building land and one for farmland) in my wife's name.

The whole thing was very complex and would have required a really capable real estate lawyer.

If you think that your lawyer knows all about properties, I would be happy if you would send me his data via PM.

At the latest if I want to sell the land and house in a few years, I would need a good lawyer who can legally ensure that part of the money would be transferred directly abroad (the money for the land and house originally came from abroad).

And he should also accept that I don't want the common praxis with a deeper sales price for save taxes.
The common Vietnamese will laughing at me because that.

It's sometime not easy in Vietnam if you want to abide the law.

I recall this when you used another name on here. Nothing is easy here.

colinoscapee :
AkaMaverick :
moscowmetro :

... still advise a lawyer. It cost me 2kusd in fee,s but I found it well worth it.

We didn't have a lawyer because I couldn't find a good lawyer.

The purchase and shortly afterwards the sale (we had another opportunity at short notice) were handled directly by the developer's employees.
The only problem was that the bank that handled the sale refused to transfer the money to a foreigner's Vietnamese account (although the properties contracts was in the name of my wife and in my name).

Then we bought land near my wife's parents. We did all this directly with the landowner and my wife's family. Hand-written contract, official visits, bank visits and finally the changed Rosa books in our hands.

But this all cost me a lot of nerves, because we also bought a piece of farmland which we wanted to rezone. But then I noticed that in the farmland part the name of my wife's mother's brother was entered in the Pink Book. I recognized later that the family did this because apparently only farm land owners can buy new farmland.

After I found that out, I was very angry because (typically Vietnamese) the family says all the time laughing that everything is no problem (because of this unspeakable behavior I was already exposed to some problems and I don't believe anymore what Vietnamese people advises since then) and told my wife that I don't accept that. She then found someone who did all change legally, but through detours (very complicated and I think I understood 90% of it).

In short, now we have 3 pink books (2 for building land and one for farmland) in my wife's name.

The whole thing was very complex and would have required a really capable real estate lawyer.

If you think that your lawyer knows all about properties, I would be happy if you would send me his data via PM.

At the latest if I want to sell the land and house in a few years, I would need a good lawyer who can legally ensure that part of the money would be transferred directly abroad (the money for the land and house originally came from abroad).

And he should also accept that I don't want the common praxis with a deeper sales price for save taxes.
The common Vietnamese will laughing at me because that.

It's sometime not easy in Vietnam if you want to abide the law.

I recall this when you used another name on here. Nothing is easy here.

Andy?

😉

OceanBeach92107 :
colinoscapee :
AkaMaverick :


We didn't have a lawyer because I couldn't find a good lawyer.

The purchase and shortly afterwards the sale (we had another opportunity at short notice) were handled directly by the developer's employees.
The only problem was that the bank that handled the sale refused to transfer the money to a foreigner's Vietnamese account (although the properties contracts was in the name of my wife and in my name).

Then we bought land near my wife's parents. We did all this directly with the landowner and my wife's family. Hand-written contract, official visits, bank visits and finally the changed Rosa books in our hands.

But this all cost me a lot of nerves, because we also bought a piece of farmland which we wanted to rezone. But then I noticed that in the farmland part the name of my wife's mother's brother was entered in the Pink Book. I recognized later that the family did this because apparently only farm land owners can buy new farmland.

After I found that out, I was very angry because (typically Vietnamese) the family says all the time laughing that everything is no problem (because of this unspeakable behavior I was already exposed to some problems and I don't believe anymore what Vietnamese people advises since then) and told my wife that I don't accept that. She then found someone who did all change legally, but through detours (very complicated and I think I understood 90% of it).

In short, now we have 3 pink books (2 for building land and one for farmland) in my wife's name.

The whole thing was very complex and would have required a really capable real estate lawyer.

If you think that your lawyer knows all about properties, I would be happy if you would send me his data via PM.

At the latest if I want to sell the land and house in a few years, I would need a good lawyer who can legally ensure that part of the money would be transferred directly abroad (the money for the land and house originally came from abroad).

And he should also accept that I don't want the common praxis with a deeper sales price for save taxes.
The common Vietnamese will laughing at me because that.

It's sometime not easy in Vietnam if you want to abide the law.

I recall this when you used another name on here. Nothing is easy here.

Andy?

😉

I think buying an apartment was childs play compared to what you have gone through & want a lawyer to handle future sales etc. sounds really complicated! I think the lawyer I used (recommended on UK Consul web site) would politly decline the job to be honest.

OceanBeach92107 :
colinoscapee :
AkaMaverick :


We didn't have a lawyer because I couldn't find a good lawyer.

The purchase and shortly afterwards the sale (we had another opportunity at short notice) were handled directly by the developer's employees.
The only problem was that the bank that handled the sale refused to transfer the money to a foreigner's Vietnamese account (although the properties contracts was in the name of my wife and in my name).

Then we bought land near my wife's parents. We did all this directly with the landowner and my wife's family. Hand-written contract, official visits, bank visits and finally the changed Rosa books in our hands.

But this all cost me a lot of nerves, because we also bought a piece of farmland which we wanted to rezone. But then I noticed that in the farmland part the name of my wife's mother's brother was entered in the Pink Book. I recognized later that the family did this because apparently only farm land owners can buy new farmland.

After I found that out, I was very angry because (typically Vietnamese) the family says all the time laughing that everything is no problem (because of this unspeakable behavior I was already exposed to some problems and I don't believe anymore what Vietnamese people advises since then) and told my wife that I don't accept that. She then found someone who did all change legally, but through detours (very complicated and I think I understood 90% of it).

In short, now we have 3 pink books (2 for building land and one for farmland) in my wife's name.

The whole thing was very complex and would have required a really capable real estate lawyer.

If you think that your lawyer knows all about properties, I would be happy if you would send me his data via PM.

At the latest if I want to sell the land and house in a few years, I would need a good lawyer who can legally ensure that part of the money would be transferred directly abroad (the money for the land and house originally came from abroad).

And he should also accept that I don't want the common praxis with a deeper sales price for save taxes.
The common Vietnamese will laughing at me because that.

It's sometime not easy in Vietnam if you want to abide the law.

I recall this when you used another name on here. Nothing is easy here.

Andy?

😉

Yep.

thanks for your insights. Yes, I will look at a lawyer to get help with this potential move. My feel is buy property is safer than keep money in a bank account now. The changes in rules this year re foreigners and term deposits and some other changes or remarkable changes make me think a good quality condo might be best

that sounds like quite a lot of things I need to be aware of. I will look into it. Ideally, buying direct from the developer is route I'd go. I feel uneasy with agents

colinoscapee :
OceanBeach92107 :
colinoscapee :


I recall this when you used another name on here. Nothing is easy here.

Andy?

😉

Yep.

Looks as if you and I will be co-defendants in the civil suit for slander...

You can always put your money in, lawyer or not.
Getting it out is another story, but then you all know that.

just rent...Vietnamese property seems overpriced to me.

panda7 :

just rent...Vietnamese property seems overpriced to me.

It is overpriced, but it increases in value at incredible speed. My friends house has increased 50% in two years, cant get that sort of return in a bank. My houses in Australia have increased only 20% in 12 years.

Fancybear :

I note there is over supply of condos in some districts.

colinoscapee :

It is overpriced, but it increases in value at incredible speed. My friends house has increased 50% in two years, cant get that sort of return in a bank.

According to the laws of supply and demand that we learned in Economics 101, these statements can't both be true, yet empirical observation tells us that they are.  When these conflicting signals are both present, are they not indicative of a bubble economy which must ultimately either crash or at least come to a rapid halt?

THIGV :
Fancybear :

I note there is over supply of condos in some districts.

colinoscapee :

It is overpriced, but it increases in value at incredible speed. My friends house has increased 50% in two years, cant get that sort of return in a bank.

According to the laws of supply and demand that we learned in Economics 101, these statements can't both be true, yet empirical observation tells us that they are.  When these conflicting signals are both present, are they not indicative of a bubble economy which must ultimately either crash or at least come to a rapid halt?

Agree. The rate at which property grows in this country is alarming. Land on Phu Quoc increased 800% in just 4-months.

the banking situation makes any with larger sum of money consider if it is safe to keep in a bank as new regulations arrive e.g. "tourist visa, no term deposit allowed...but you can buy a house"

can a foreigner borrow from a Vietnamese bank ?

panda7 :

can a foreigner borrow from a Vietnamese bank ?

No

Why buy?  When you can rent.  You will be able to change apartments and other parts of the city, depending.  You will be able to up-grade or down-grade.  No worrying about selling.  I was thinking about moving to DaNang at 75 I don’t need to worry selling.  So there you have it.

I'm your age and Da Nang is my choice also. I was there in June. Love the city.

I have just spent 7 mnths in Vietnam  to buy a condo, left there with nothing but  a Huge Headache, Bad Memories and no Property, DONT DO IT, You are dealing with a Corrupt government who will over night See you loose everything in a Heartbeat,  There system is very complicated that even Vietnamese can't get there head Around,  For a country that has open it self up to Foreign investors,  They Havnt made it very Easy,  Can't buy land, just Lease, Laws only Favour  them , not foreigner,  Don't bother fighting it it, You will loose, And Don't Mention the War !!!!!!!

I am going back to DaNang.

Jon Holloway :

I have just spent 7 mnths in Vietnam  to buy a condo, left there with nothing but  a Huge Headache, Bad Memories and no Property, DONT DO IT, You are dealing with a Corrupt government who will over night See you loose everything in a Heartbeat,  There system is very complicated that even Vietnamese can't get there head Around,  For a country that has open it self up to Foreign investors,  They Havnt made it very Easy,  Can't buy land, just Lease, Laws only Favour  them , not foreigner,  Don't bother fighting it it, You will loose, And Don't Mention the War !!!!!!!

I am not so sure laying the blame at the foot of the government is an accurate assessment.

First you have to ask yourself "who" is claiming these so call property values are increasing. Do they mean "Market Value" or "assessed value"? Market Value is nothing any government can "control" ... Those prices being quoted are nothing more than a "sales pitch" .... The government has VERY little reason to force people to sell, and the people themselves have very little incentive to sell. Viets get a 70 year lease, and is renewed another 70 years when transferred to a family member....

However, like everything in Vietnam, the "advantage" is when a person NEEDS something. ( Just like when viets take advantage of you when you NEED something )  So when that family gets slammed with some crazy medical bill, or a kid that needs to go abroad to school, that is when they are motivated to sell, and that is when the seller is as a disadvantage.

One of my biggest negotiation factors for purchase offers is actually the construction ... Drain lines do not have Drain Traps ( so the bathroom always smells like a sewer, no matter how much bleach you force down that pipe!. Tile grout is not pushed in, it is simply spread over, which is why you see most homes with areas of grout missing after a few chemical cleanings. Not to mention there is no silicon in the grout ( place a water droplet on the grout and test for yourself ), so it soaks up water instead of repelling it shortening the life of the tile by half. Then you have cheap water based interior paint that is basically ruined the first time someone touches it, let alone even trying to clean.

As far as i can tell, the best value to buy homes at are OLD homes and remodel yourself. Anything short of that is going to cost a LOT of money to replace when that poor quality construction finally fails. However, The expats warning people NOT to buy anything in VN are basically spot on ... As a foreigner there is NO WAY to protect your assets in Vietnam ... Not Your Bank Account, Not Your Home/Condo, and not your Business. If you do not have a family tie in Vietnam, you should avoid investing in ANY part of Vietnam.

Me too

[Post under review]

Jon Holloway :

I have just spent 7 mnths in Vietnam  to buy a condo, left there with nothing but  a Huge Headache, Bad Memories and no Property, DONT DO IT, You are dealing with a Corrupt government who will over night See you loose everything in a Heartbeat,  There system is very complicated that even Vietnamese can't get there head Around,  For a country that has open it self up to Foreign investors,  They Havnt made it very Easy,  Can't buy land, just Lease, Laws only Favour  them , not foreigner,  Don't bother fighting it it, You will loose, And Don't Mention the War !!!!!!!

can you tell us what happened ? thanks

If you are going to buy something buy and old house on a decent block, in a decent area. Get your wife to buy it in her name and use the banks money. Pay the interest off, its no different to paying rent. If someone tries to shaft you its the banks problem as the title is in their name...

I wouldn't buy a condo especially using a foreigners name.

Panda7, this is very good advice. If you are not sure about the legality of buying a condo, get a short term mortgage loan (foreign or Vietnamese owned in Vietnam), no matter how small the amount. You can borrow for 12 month for a few thousand USD. Technically, the bank will keep the "Pink" registration book until you pay off the loan. A foreign bank will entrust this task to a law firm to hold the book until you pay off the loan. They do real diligence on this transaction because they need to manage default risk.

panda7 :

If you are going to buy something buy and old house on a decent block, in a decent area. Get your wife to buy it in her name and use the banks money. Pay the interest off, its no different to paying rent. If someone tries to shaft you its the banks problem as the title is in their name...

I wouldn't buy a condo especially using a foreigners name.

If his wife buys it, he must complete a form saying he has no claim over the property. The law in VN is if you are married the property must be in both names.

Correct. Or do nothing. To sell and buy you need to declare your martial status. If you do nothing and don't sign over your rights to the property, then your wife can't sell it without your permission. Doing nothing is the best option. At least you get to avoid the thorny issues of trust or being blamed for lacking "tinh cam" with your wife.

chenwen :

Panda7, this is very good advice. If you are not sure about the legality of buying a condo, get a short term mortgage loan (foreign or Vietnamese owned in Vietnam), no matter how small the amount. You can borrow for 12 month for a few thousand USD. Technically, the bank will keep the "Pink" registration book until you pay off the loan. A foreign bank will entrust this task to a law firm to hold the book until you pay off the loan. They do real diligence on this transaction because they need to manage default risk.

When we had sold our house the Vietnamese buyer took up a hypothesis at a bank with the condition that he only has to pay when he receives the pink book (according to the contract at the latest after 12 months).
He passed the risk on to the bank which took the risk.

Hi all expat friends, I am a native Vietnamese, living in Vietnam, having sea-view apartments in Nha Trang and resort apartment in Mui Ne. I see many foreigners living in same building with me.  I know the Vietnamese law which is not as headache as you think. It is quite simple and safe.
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Good news. Thank you

Rent, don't buy. Condo values go down at an alarming rate. Put your money in a bank like SCB and get 9.5% interest p.a. Enough then to pay the rent and have some left over. You will need a two-year temporary residence card though.

nick4946 :

Rent, don't buy. Condo values go down at an alarming rate. Put your money in a bank like SCB and get 9.5% interest p.a. Enough then to pay the rent and have some left over. You will need a two-year temporary residence card though.

Where did you get the figure of 9.5%, that seems to be way above the going rate.

Ha Ha Ha

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