Retiring on virtually no money

SteinNebraska wrote:

I don't want to comment on any particular thread as I don't want to offend anyone and it is completely their right to do what they want in life.  That said, there have been more than a few threads here lately on trying to retire on the bare minimum.  Why do people try to retire on virtually no money?  Once they retire and move to a foreign country they have no safety net if things go sideways, nor do they have a job to earn more money.  I suppose that is why people inquire on the Vietnam forum as they hear they can live here on pennies.

Wouldn't it be prudent to work a bit longer and save something before trying to retire?  I see this in the US a lot.  People want to "retire" because they have reached what is historically "retirement age" yet have made no provisions financially to do so but feel that they "deserve it".  The amount of net savings for new or soon-to-be retirees has dwindled considerably over the years.  From Investopedia:

Sixtysomethings

This is typically the decade when you begin to reap the rewards of decades of saving. By the time you reach 60, you should have eight times your annual salary saved, according to Fidelity, while those who are 67 should have 10 times their salary saved.

Unfortunately, Transamerica reports the estimated median savings for sixtysomethings is $172,000. At this point, it's harder to save enough to make up for any shortfall. If you are behind on your savings, take a hard look at your assets and see what can be monetized at some point to help sustain you.

So people in their early 60's are at their highest wage earning potential of their lives, can live on less than the younger people as they historically have paid for their house and aren't raising children and can be putting substantial savings in the bank.  But, they retire because they "earned it".  I just don't understand this line of thinking.

I think you answered your own question.

People  can't survive in their home country, therefore they look for an alternative. Some of the guys I know in their 60's and 70's live quite well due to the fact they are not bar-flys. The big drinkers are the ones who seem to struggle the most.

I think those figures of 8X and 10X are entirely overblown. They might be appropriate if you plan to go on some wild-a$$ed spending spree and live far beyond the norm you established in your first 60 years. Otherwise, I just can't see it.

Jim-Minh wrote:

I think those figures of 8X and 10X are entirely overblown. They might be appropriate if you plan to go on some wild-a$$ed spending spree and live far beyond the norm you established in your first 60 years. Otherwise, I just can't see it.

I understand where you are coming from but I do think the average person under-estimates what it will cost them to live when retired.   My brother is a financial planner and he agrees that people under estimate.  The thought process is, "I don't have to drive to work so save on gas and wear and tear on car, I don't have to buy new clothes for work, I don't have to eat out for lunch while at work, house is paid for, etc. etc.

The reality is after a month or two of "retirement" boredom sets in and the new retiree starts to spend more money, travels more, does more leisure things.  Those things cost money.  The reality is the average retiree (in the US) spends right around 70% of the money they spent their last year of working.  That's tough to do without real savings and without a severe reduction in lifestyle.  That reduction is what the average American struggles with.  So, maybe looking to live here will work and some people do make it work here.  We have several members who do just that.  I suspect they were also frugal on lifestyle spending when they were working as well.

I'm not trying to be holier than thou.  Far from it.  It's risk aversion for me.

Gosh - apples and oranges.

The quoted stuff might well be reasonably accurate if you're living in an expensive country, but they just don't work if you move to a new place where the cost of living is so much less,
I would probably need about a thousand Pounds per month if I retired in the UK, but can easily live on 300 quid out here, and have a better life style that the grand would let me have in the UK.
Yes, I lose the ability to not care about money, and I'd have to hold back on buying expensive tech, but I could live happily .... and that would include health insurance bills.

SteinNebraska wrote:

Jim-Minh wrote:

I think those figures of 8X and 10X are entirely overblown. They might be appropriate if you plan to go on some wild-a$$ed spending spree and live far beyond the norm you established in your first 60 years. Otherwise, I just can't see it.

I understand where you are coming from but I do think the average person under-estimates what it will cost them to live when retired.   My brother is a financial planner and he agrees that people under estimate.  The thought process is, "I don't have to drive to work so save on gas and wear and tear on car, I don't have to buy new clothes for work, I don't have to eat out for lunch while at work, house is paid for, etc. etc.

The reality is after a month or two of "retirement" boredom sets in and the new retiree starts to spend more money, travels more, does more leisure things.  Those things cost money.  The reality is the average retiree (in the US) spends right around 70% of the money they spent their last year of working.  That's tough to do without real savings and without a severe reduction in lifestyle.  That reduction is what the average American struggles with.  So, maybe looking to live here will work and some people do make it work here.  We have several members who do just that.  I suspect they were also frugal on lifestyle spending when they were working as well.

I'm not trying to be holier than thou.  Far from it.  It's risk aversion for me.

I think one point that you may have overlooked, many of the guys/gals I have spoken to here are much happier here than their home countries. The happiness factor will outweigh the monetary factor most times.

colinoscapee wrote:

I think one point that you may have overlooked, many of the guys/gals I have spoken to here are much happier here than their home countries. The happiness factor will outweigh the monetary factor most times.

I can definitely see that being a possibility from the few months I've been here.

Happy is worth a lot.
My idiot sister has a bigger pay packet than mine but her disposable income isn't even close to what I can toss away without a second thought.
That and she'll have to work until she retires, have not much to show for it, then will die pissed off after a wasted life.
I have serious memories, and I'm as happy as a pig in poop.
To our intrepid but inaccurate OP, money isn't everything, less so when the basis for your theory is wrong.

Someone once said: "A wealthy person isn't the one who has the most, it's the one who needs the least!"

I don't know about Vietnam but I have seen a few Youtube videos about expats who are broke and homeless in Thailand. There's no government assistance for expats in Thailand and they don't have the money to fly back to the states. It would shock me to see an expat begging for money in VN and I also didn't see much beggars when I was there. I see a lot of professional beggars at the off ramps here in Los Angeles.

*** My brother is a financial planner ***

Who would be better served by imposing unrealistic retirement criterion than a financial planner?

For most of us, retirement is an absolutely SUBJECTIVE goal.

Perhaps those of the planner discipline have seen residents of the super rich and have a skewed or unrealistic view of the end life.

Perhaps they have seen those of the irresponsible ilk and superimpose unrealistic guidelines on the tier as a whole knowing their propensity to live without rational planning.

Perhaps planners view retirement as a final end-of-life decision as if you have sailed off the edge of the world.

I'll reject the last category of the predators for the purposes of this discussion who are just looking for commissions and transaction fees to line their pockets.

Vietnam offers the retiree a multitude of options. You can live like a king or live like a peon. You have a choice, you are not predestined (at least not in this sense.)

As Derutter stated: it's a matter of need.
As Colin stated: The definition of happy is not the same in this part of the world.

And who in the world but a god has the audacity to impose a lifestyle on someone who is otherwise happy with their choice in life or of someone who just wants to pause and savor their most recent bite of life???

I think we have a consensus.

Happy is better than rich

The principle the OP is making his point on is flawed, or just plain wrong

People here are raving communists, or anarchists, or too drunk to care

SteinNebraska wrote:

I don't want to comment on any particular thread as I don't want to offend anyone and it is completely their right to do what they want in life.  That said, there have been more than a few threads here lately on trying to retire on the bare minimum.  Why do people try to retire on virtually no money?  Once they retire and move to a foreign country they have no safety net if things go sideways, nor do they have a job to earn more money.  I suppose that is why people inquire on the Vietnam forum as they hear they can live here on pennies.

Jim-Minh wrote:

...who in the world but a god has the audacity to impose a lifestyle on someone who is otherwise happy with his choice in life???

Without affirming or disputing any particular retirement strategies or facts/figures, I assume the OP is seeing the same pattern I've noticed:

1. Many folks introducing themselves here appear both naive and clueless as to the realities of retirement life in Vietnam.

They are also apparently unable (or unwilling) to do keyword searches in the forum, so they initiate new threads asking many of the same pie-in-the-sky questions already answered here multiple times.

Some have a "Golly Wally! 😃" (Leave It To Beaver) tone to their posts, amazed that they can get absolutely everything they want (they think) in Vietnam for virtually nothing.

You cannot confuse these types with the facts...

2. Now the dreamers have arrived on a shoestring.

They are amazed that the cheap apartment they reserved long distance doesn't have screens on the windows or mosquito netting over their hard-as-rock mattress.

They gripe about the lack of English signs and menus.

They are bewildered that their $826.00 USD Social Security check isn't buying them unlimited devotion and sexual favors, as they were "led to believe".

They are UNHAPPY.

They are ANGRY.

They and their posts are (I'm guessing) a large part of the motivation for the OP's post.

Fred wrote:

I think we have a consensus.

Happy is better than rich

The principle the OP is making his point on is flawed, or just plain wrong

People here are raving communists, or anarchists, or too drunk to care

You mean people here in the forum?

I think the OP is talking about people posting in the forum who are also here in Vietnam.

*** My brother is a financial planner ***


I have always wondered, if financial planners are so smart with money, why are they still working?

colinoscapee wrote:

*** My brother is a financial planner ***

I have always wondered if financial planners are so smart with money, why are they still working?

They are liberal and only smart with other people's money.

Jim-Minh wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

*** My brother is a financial planner ***

I have always wondered if financial planners are so smart with money, why are they still working?

They are liberal and only smart with other people's money.

Not Yogi???

😉

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Jim-Minh wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

*** My brother is a financial planner ***

I have always wondered if financial planners are so smart with money, why are they still working?

They are liberal and only smart with other people's money.

Not Yogi???

😉

Yogi must be on holiday or lying low.

colinoscapee wrote:

I have always wondered, if financial planners are so smart with money, why are they still working?

I asked our Merrill Lynch planner that question decades ago.  His reply:  "A person can never have too much money for all the things he wants to do, especially when he's retired and can enjoy life to the fullest."

We retired shortly after that meeting at very early ages (47 and 54) with only a tiny fraction of the funds he said we would've needed "to maintain the lifestyle to which [we] have become accustomed".  Guess what?  Our old lifestyle has gone just as he predicted but not that drastically as he thought it would've been.  The biggest change was that I no longer bought high designer handbags and shoes, and I stopped paying $165 plus 20% - 25% tip for a haircut.  That's just about it. 

In exchange, for almost 2 decades now, we've been travelling approximately 400% more often than we did when we were still working (4+ months instead of 5 weeks each year).  Travelling is our point of reference in regards to real freedom in life.  Moreover, our sense of contentment and fulfillment has been higher than we could've ever dreamed of, and that, to us, is the most important indication that we've done the right thing.  In our retirement, we've made everything we wanted happened and we didn't need a good portfolio as a tool.

Unlike what the OP said, we didn't retire because we thought we "earned it", but because we knew it's the only way to achieve my peace of mind and our happiness.  "Work a bit longer and save" wasn't an option.  We agreed that we didn't need money to be happy, as long as the rent was paid, nutritious food was on the table, and we could travel.  My husband also stressed that my sanity was more important to him than a thousand dollar extra a month for the rest of his life.  We've never looked back on that decision.  I suspect our "risk aversion" (healthwise) is much lower now than if we had continued to work until retirement age, as I'm certain happiness and good health go hand in hand, at least in our cases.

And no, we didn't move to a country with low cost of living until 17 years after I stopped working and 13 years after my husband's retirement.  We moved to Italy, lived la dolce vita and travelled all over Europe for 7 years on the same pension that we're now living on in Vietnam.

I should try to find out what our Merrill Lynch financial planner is up to since we talked to him last, to see if he has even started to "enjoy life to the fullest."

I think in countries like America & Australia when you reach 60 you have used up your usefulness in the capitalist world. With HR & the medicals  & function evaluation tests its an easy way to not recruit aging workers. The aging people in Australia only got Superannuation half way through their working lives & are now told by the Politicians that the old age pension is not an entitlement. With the casualization of the labour market these days unless you are a Politician or have a cushy Government job forget about accumulating wealth late in life.

Hear, hear! I met two older Brits who spent enormous amounts sitting in some boozer and spending crazy amounts on beer which they might as well have drank at a fraction at home. (Since they weren't enjoying the ambience or socializing)

Other age groups go wild, wasting a ton of money on cell phone plans they failed to research. VINAPHONE has a 2 GB a day for 89,000 d plan with 50 free minutes thrown in. Beat that!

After an eviction, I would sometimes find cell phone bills for thousands of Dollars. In a country with flat-rate-plans.

A teacher's interest skyrocketed. I asked her to get her free credit reports. Voila, collections.

Last Friday, I saw HIGHLAND'S COFFEE was packed, every seat taken. The locals seem to spend extraordinary amounts at coffee shops they can't afford JMHO. Learn to live without coffe and save what, 10% of your expenditure?

Got an old but functional notebook? Spend $ 30 on a SSD and double its speed.

I also retired early at age 45 after building homes for 25 years. I figured that if I did not make enough in 25 years then working 40 years would not help. I was living in the Bay area of California and most of my money went to live a good life style. I was so wrong. I am now 70 years old and have been living in Vietnam for 6 months. Found a wonderful women to marry and I am very happy. I was here in 1967-71 during the war in the Navy and today's Vietnam is not like then. I get a little over 55 million dong ($2373 usd) a month but I find I can live very good on just 30 million ($1294 usd) a month.I guess it just depends on what you want out of life.
If you want the stress of a big house,2 cars, and all the toys then stay where you are at and die at a young age if you keep it up or get your butt over here and start living a life full of joy and happiness. And don't give a damn about what family and people say "live your own life"

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

SteinNebraska wrote:

I don't want to comment on any particular thread as I don't want to offend anyone and it is completely their right to do what they want in life.  That said, there have been more than a few threads here lately on trying to retire on the bare minimum.  Why do people try to retire on virtually no money?  Once they retire and move to a foreign country they have no safety net if things go sideways, nor do they have a job to earn more money.  I suppose that is why people inquire on the Vietnam forum as they hear they can live here on pennies.

Jim-Minh wrote:

...who in the world but a god has the audacity to impose a lifestyle on someone who is otherwise happy with his choice in life???

Without affirming or disputing any particular retirement strategies or facts/figures, I assume the OP is seeing the same pattern I've noticed:

1. Many folks introducing themselves here appear both naive and clueless as to the realities of retirement life in Vietnam.

They are also apparently unable (or unwilling) to do keyword searches in the forum, so they initiate new threads asking many of the same pie-in-the-sky questions already answered here multiple times.

Some have a "Golly Wally! 😃" (Leave It To Beaver) tone to their posts, amazed that they can get absolutely everything they want (they think) in Vietnam for virtually nothing.

You cannot confuse these types with the facts...

2. Now the dreamers have arrived on a shoestring.

They are amazed that the cheap apartment they reserved long distance doesn't have screens on the windows or mosquito netting over their hard-as-rock mattress.

They gripe about the lack of English signs and menus.

They are bewildered that their $826.00 USD Social Security check isn't buying them unlimited devotion and sexual favors, as they were "led to believe".

They are UNHAPPY.

They are ANGRY.

They and their posts are (I'm guessing) a large part of the motivation for the OP's post.

My thoughts exactly

Expat48...Bravo Zulu...Retired Navy and here for 15 yrs now...agree 100 percent.  Best move I've ever  made.

Where are you living? I am in Buon Ma Thuot. Living the dream

Sir...I am retired US military and a disabled vet.  I also collect my SSI....I would like to go off line and speak with you...  Thanks

Bovis123 wrote:

Sir...I am retired US military and a disabled vet.  I also collect my SSI....I would like to go off line and speak with you...  Thanks

There are 13 participants on this thread, 12 of whom are men.  To which "sir" are you addressing?

Bovis123 wrote:

Sir...I am retired US military and a disabled vet.  I also collect my SSI....I would like to go off line and speak with you...  Thanks

Hey Bovis, a forum pro-tip here:
Click Quote not Reply to respond to someone.
Or to send them a Private Message (PM) by clicking on their name.

KruChris wrote:

Learn to live without coffe and save what, 10% of your expenditure?

Live without coffee?  NEVER.     Live without Highlands coffee shop coffee?  Good suggestion.   

My preferred (morning) coffee locations are the little ones down the hẻm where I have strangely enough met English speaking Vietnamese.  As they tended to be males my own age, most of them learned it working as teens for the Americans.  One had been a Major with the ARVN.   A cup of cà phê nóng at such places can be as little as 10,000 VND with cà phê đá only a bit more.

Very interesting topic and I can only opine, but people do have their own individual motivations for seeking retirement in countries like VN.  Obviously cost of living is a motivating factor for those in the west looking for a better retirement life. 

The problems I see in the USA that make retirement difficult are as follows:

1. based on the link below from 2016, 1/3 of us have -0- retirement savings and 56% have less than 10k.
http://money.com/money/4258451/retireme … gs-survey/

2. Social Security (SS) is not enough to live in the USA without additional funds or family support.  However, even average SS in VN is more than enough to live a good life.  Just like 1 post here the person stated they make 55 million per month in SS vs. the average monthly salary in VN is about 6 million and there are thousands of families that live on this and less.

3.  You can do the research, but most people in the USA work all their lives and retire with basically very little or nothing and many die with debt.  Thus, those looking to retire know this and are looking for alternatives.  Why struggle and die poor in the USA when you can live in other countries with a better quality of life (e.g., Vietnam, Ecuador, Panama, Costa Rica, Malaysia etc.)  Many USA retirees choose latin america for the closeness to the USA.  But Vietnam is very attractive because of the economics.

4. As others have mentioned, the downsides have to be considered (medical, dental, language, culture).  If a retiree can figure out and live with these differences, then yes, VN can be a good place to retire and enjoy your life.

5.  I think a lot of people are looking at VN because they don't have a lot of retirement savings and realize they are not going to have a solid retirement other than SS.  Thus, they are looking for a more economical place to retire.  let's be honest, if you work in the West for 30 to 40 years and save for retirement, many are not going to look at VN to retire unless they have family in VN.

For example, if I was only expecting SS in retirement, for sure VN would be #1 for retirement mostly because of the economics, even though we have family in VN.  However, our retirement consist of various assets and retirement accounts and SS will only be a part of the total.  Thus, our #1 retirement country is Singapore, #2 is Malaysia.  Yes, we love VN, but I prefer these other 2 countries for many reasons and flying from Singapore to Saigon is a very short trip and it is no different if we lived in VN and just a couple hours away from family in VN.  Quality of life, healthcare, education etc. are key for us.  I am sure we will have a home in the countryside in VN, but our main home will most likely be Singapore.

All of us are different and have different motivations when it comes to retirement, but I think VN is attractive to westerners mainly because of the economics and that sparks the interest.  Once they realize what living in VN really is, it is not as attractive as they thought, unless you learn how to adapt and manage life in VN. 

Finally, inflation adjusted wages in the USA have not gone up until recently for a lot of workers for decades and thus, saving for retirement has been very difficult as the stats demonstrate.  Even the younger workers are suffering from large tuition debt, high rents and lower salaries from the crash of 2008.  As a result, many cannot save a lot in their 401k's or IRA's.

THIGV wrote:

KruChris wrote:

Learn to live without coffe and save what, 10% of your expenditure?

Live without coffee?  NEVER.     Live without Highlands coffee shop coffee?  Good suggestion.   

A cup of cà phê nóng at such places can be as little as 10,000 VND with cà phê đá only a bit more.

You are getting ripped off!  LOL.  We usually pay 7k vnd for ca phe. 

vndreamer wrote:

Very interesting topic and I can only opine, but people do have their own individual motivations for seeking retirement in countries like VN.  Obviously cost of living is a motivating factor for those in the west looking for a better retirement life. 

The problems I see in the USA that make retirement difficult are as follows:

1. based on the link below from 2016, 1/3 of us have -0- retirement savings and 56% have less than 10k.
http://money.com/money/4258451/retireme … gs-survey/

2. Social Security (SS) is not enough to live in the USA without additional funds or family support.  However, even average SS in VN is more than enough to live a good life.  Just like 1 post here the person stated they make 55 million per month in SS vs. the average monthly salary in VN is about 6 million and there are thousands of families that live on this and less.

3.  You can do the research, but most people in the USA work all their lives and retire with basically very little or nothing and many die with debt.  Thus, those looking to retire know this and are looking for alternatives.  Why struggle and die poor in the USA when you can live in other countries with a better quality of life (e.g., Vietnam, Ecuador, Panama, Costa Rica, Malaysia etc.)  Many USA retirees choose latin america for the closeness to the USA.  But Vietnam is very attractive because of the economics.

4. As others have mentioned, the downsides have to be considered (medical, dental, language, culture).  If a retiree can figure out and live with these differences, then yes, VN can be a good place to retire and enjoy your life.

5.  I think a lot of people are looking at VN because they don't have a lot of retirement savings and realize they are not going to have a solid retirement other than SS.  Thus, they are looking for a more economical place to retire.  let's be honest, if you work in the West for 30 to 40 years and save for retirement, many are not going to look at VN to retire unless they have family in VN.

For example, if I was only expecting SS in retirement, for sure VN would be #1 for retirement mostly because of the economics, even though we have family in VN.  However, our retirement consist of various assets and retirement accounts and SS will only be a part of the total.  Thus, our #1 retirement country is Singapore, #2 is Malaysia.  Yes, we love VN, but I prefer these other 2 countries for many reasons and flying from Singapore to Saigon is a very short trip and it is no different if we lived in VN and just a couple hours away from family in VN.  Quality of life, healthcare, education etc. are key for us.  I am sure we will have a home in the countryside in VN, but our main home will most likely be Singapore.

All of us are different and have different motivations when it comes to retirement, but I think VN is attractive to westerners mainly because of the economics and that sparks the interest.  Once they realize what living in VN really is, it is not as attractive as they thought, unless you learn how to adapt and manage life in VN. 

Finally, inflation adjusted wages in the USA have not gone up until recently for a lot of workers for decades and thus, saving for retirement has been very difficult as the stats demonstrate.  Even the younger workers are suffering from large tuition debt, high rents and lower salaries from the crash of 2008.  As a result, many cannot save a lot in their 401k's or IRA's.

Thank you also vndreamer for summing up the stats and reality in the US....

I'm happy here... I chose early in life to pursue accumulating life experiences not material wealth...