Family Book

Hi Andy,

Family book is stipulated in Article 24 of Resident Law:

https://thuvienphapluat.vn/van-ban/Bo-m … 03638.aspx

(you can use google translate)

The purpose of family book is to register the permanent residence. So it doesn't require that you need own your own land to have family book.

As I understand from Vn law, to get birth certificate, it is not necessary to have family book. But I think you could ask local competent body where you want to register birth certificate to clarify.

LittleHanoiDreaming wrote:

Hi Andy,

Family book is stipulated in Article 24 of Resident Law:

https://thuvienphapluat.vn/van-ban/Bo-m … 03638.aspx

(you can use google translate)

The purpose of family book is to register the permanent residence. So it doesn't require that you need own your own land to have family book.

As I understand from Vn law, to get birth certificate, it is not necessary to have family book. But I think you could ask local competent body where you want to register birth certificate to clarify.

Thank you for the link.
I will translate it.

Andy Passenger wrote:

If an entry in the family book were necessary, our future child would probably have to be entered temporarily in the family book of my wife's parents.

Why not.  Both my brothers-in-law and a sister-in-law, all of whom own land without housing in their own right, are registered in my mother-in-law's book as are their children, and in one case grandchildren. As LittleHanoiDreaming points out, it may not be necessary to own your residence to have your own book but it certainly would be inconvenient, as you would have to go through a whole process any time you moved.  If you own a house, you presumably plan to stay in one place for a while. 

Andy Passenger wrote:

Will I also be entered in the new family book as a foreigner (with TRC)?

No, but you will need to be registered as a temporary resident with the local police.  The book is a means of controlling the citizenry.  They have other ways of controlling you. 

LittleHanoi wrote:

As I understand from Vn law, to get birth certificate, it is not necessary to have family book.

Wouldn't obtaining a birth certificate necessitate being placed in a family book somewhere?  If not, that runs contrary to the notion of government control that is exercised by having all people in the books in the first place.  Are there people floating around the country now that are not in any books?  To be so would make such persons essentially without the privileges of citizenship as showing a photocopy of the book seems a necessity for so many government interactions.

I recall reading on this website that there was a proposal in government to eliminate the books altogether.  Does anyone have a follow up on that?  Overall it would be a good idea as the book is primarily a mechanism to control the people going back to feudal China.  It is based on an agrarian model where peasants did not, and were not allowed to, leave their home villages for generations.   This is obviously no longer true in Vietnam.  The present system results in the absurdity of people living in HCMC while being permanent residents of Hanoi.  A modern Vietnam where, unlike China, people are allowed to reside and work where they chose, should get rid of the system altogether.  In this day of computer systems, the government could easily have a centralized registry of the citizenry and simply continue having a National ID for all.  Perhaps resistance to a central registry replacing the family books comes from local bureaucrats throughout the country, who are not coincidentally also Party members, as they would loose part of the reason for their jobs.  That too may change in time.  I believe part of the reason for many government jobs in the past was to reward participation on the winning side in the war.  Those people are all retired by now.

THIGV wrote:

Andy Passenger wrote:

If an entry in the family book were necessary, our future child would probably have to be entered temporarily in the family book of my wife's parents.

Why not.  Both my brothers-in-law and a sister-in-law, all of whom own land without housing in their own right, are registered in my mother-in-law's book as are their children, and in one case grandchildren. As LittleHanoiDreaming points out, it may not be necessary to own your residence to have your own book but it certainly would be inconvenient, as you would have to go through a whole process any time you moved.  If you own a house, you presumably plan to stay in one place for a while. 

Andy Passenger wrote:

Will I also be entered in the new family book as a foreigner (with TRC)?

No, but you will need to be registered as a temporary resident with the local police.  The book is a means of controlling the citizenry.  They have other ways of controlling you. 

LittleHanoi wrote:

As I understand from Vn law, to get birth certificate, it is not necessary to have family book.

Wouldn't obtaining a birth certificate necessitate being placed in a family book somewhere?  If not, that runs contrary to the notion of government control that is exercised by having all people in the books in the first place.  Are there people floating around the country now that are not in any books?  To be so would make such persons essentially without the privileges of citizenship as showing a photocopy of the book seems a necessity for so many government interactions.

I recall reading on this website that there was a proposal in government to eliminate the books altogether.  Does anyone have a follow up on that?  Overall it would be a good idea as the book is primarily a mechanism to control the people going back to feudal China.  It is based on an agrarian model where peasants did not, and were not allowed to, leave their home villages for generations.   This is obviously no longer true in Vietnam.  The present system results in the absurdity of people living in HCMC while being permanent residents of Hanoi.  A modern Vietnam where, unlike China, people are allowed to reside and work where they chose, should get rid of the system altogether.  In this day of computer systems, the government could easily have a centralized registry of the citizenry and simply continue having a National ID for all.  Perhaps resistance to a central registry replacing the family books comes from local bureaucrats throughout the country, who are not coincidentally also Party members, as they would loose part of the reason for their jobs.  That too may change in time.  I believe part of the reason for many government jobs in the past was to reward participation on the winning side in the war.  Those people are all retired by now.

Thank you THIGV.

I have briefly browsed the text of the link that LittleHanoiDreaming posted.
A distinction is made between:
"Artcle 18: Registration of permanent residence" (Điều 18. Đăng ký thường trú) for which there is apparently the family book.
"Article 30: Temporary residence registration" (Điều 30. Đăng ký tạm trú) where you probably stay registered in the family book.
That would also be consistent with the registration here in Binh Chanh.
For the police registry in D1 and D2 my wife only had to fill in the form "don-xin-xac-nhan-tam-tru" and there was a stamp from the police station.
But here in Binh Chanh in a high-rise complex with her own small police office, she had to fill out a multi-page document and then received a blue booklet with the name "Sổ Tạm Trú" which is probably what is described under "Article 30: Temporary residence registration".

As you said it is probably the best if my wife remains provisionally in the family book of her parents and the baby is also temporarily registered there.
Afterwards we can take care of our own family book.
I have to learn that preliminary clarifications are laborious in Vietnam, because everyone here lives in today and what will be tomorrow does not have to be clarified today. Just only one step at a time.
So experienced at the office in Ben Luc when my wife wanted to ask for information on the birth certificate. They laughed at her and asked her why she came 2 months before the birth. She should come back after the birth.

By the way, it is actually planned to abolish the family books in the future (2020).
https://vnexpress.net/tong-thuat/phap-l … 66497.html