Internation or biligual schools.

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

This is something that often comes up here. Without going into a great deal of detail (if you want that, check out this link); it basically comes down to your future intentions; if you're going to stay in Holland forever, then get your kids into a Dutch school as soon as possible.

The reason for this is that the Dutch state schools stream all the kids at age 12 (this is what the CITO test is all about); how they will be streamed is based on their educational ability, plus, how good their Dutch language skills are.  Basically, if their Dutch is not up to scratch, then regardless of your wishes, they will be streamed MBO, which will make it while not impossible (in fact the system is designed to pick up the late developer), very difficult for them to go to University and they will be taught skills more aligned with an apprenticeship type of further education.  There is nothing wrong with that in itself, but if you had visions of a Uni future for both your kids, you are more than likely to be disappointed and it has happened to a lot of parents on here.  I don't know your kids, but all things being equal, I would think that your 7-year old would be OK, but your 10-year old may well struggle as he would only have about a year before the test, to learn to speak and write Dutch like a local - there is no dispensation given to non-Dutch kids.

If your future is back in the UK, then I would recommend considering the International schools.  The downside of these is that they are mouth-wateringly expensive; to the extent that we just couldn't afford it when we were deciding for our kids.  The benefit of the International schools is that they teach in English, to the UK syllabus and test/exam with the British system (so, no streaming at 12-years old) and qualifications are recognised back in the UK.

All 3 of our kids went to Dutch state schools and still thrived when we moved back to the UK; the only thing worth commenting on is they all now speak Dutch with a thick Yorkshire accent, which is quite bizarre.

Please come back if you have any further questions.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

Thank you very much for your vivid answer ,,, that was very detailed and it explained everything in a nutshell.

Its not a fair system for people who'se Dutch is a second language. They will be neatly sieved from the high achievers at 12.

It has to be international school then!

Thank you for your time, hounestly you helped loads
Abeer

Hi.
We are Australian and will be moving to Groningen for 3 years in August.
We will most likely look at Dutch school for our 6 year old. Does anyone have any reccomendations as to which is best in the Area.
Thanks Chloe

Hi,

I am reviving this oldish thread and hope to hear about some experiences from expats in similar positions.

Our family's move is not yet certain, as I have only been invited to a job interview, but I would like to get my research done early.

We have a 15 y/o girl and a 10 y/o boy (almost 11), both with good English ability, though their home language is Afrikaans.

Similar to the original poster, I am concerned with placing my son in a Dutch school as I do not believe that his Dutch will be up to scratch to perform to his ability in the CITO.  My plan is, therefore, to place him in an international school, with the intention for him to be there for a year or two, and then once his Dutch is more developed, to move across into a Dutch HAVO / MVO secondary school.

Has anybody else employed this strategy?  Will he learn enough Dutch in an English medium international school, to be able to transition into a Dutch public school without extra lessons?

The first option I am considering for my daughter is to place her in a Dutch public bilingual school, where, from what I understand the majority of subjects are taught in English (example Kandinsky College, Nijmegen or Maasland College, Oss).  She is academically very strong, but I also do not want to hamstring her, if it will be difficult to adjust to a Dutch / English bilingual school.  The second option is, therefore, to also place her in an international school.

Due to the costs involved, I would probably not be able to have both of them finish their school careers in an international school, and hence want to hear from folks who put their kids into an international school first and then transitioned to Dutch schools, or who placed their kids into a bilingual school from the get-go.

If we do end up relocating, our plan would be for it to be a long term move, so learning Dutch will be a priority for us.

Looking forward to hearing your advice and or experiences in this regard.

Thanks!

Hi,

International schools normally doesn't teach Dutch, so that isn't an option for your son. My advise would be place him on a Dutch public school a grade lower than he used to do in Zuid-Afrika. He will be fine and nowadays there is a yearly CITO in every grade. Maybe some with some extra lessons he will enroll in the school he wants to go to.

Your daughter has only one choice and that's the international school. Yes there are schools that teach bilingual, but not all lessons. Dutch, Latin, German, French, Greek and more are thaught in the Dutch language.
The exams are always in Dutch and on a high level too.

I hope this information helps a little bit. Good luck!

Hi there

As a fellow South African, I thought I would reply.  I have the same situation as you (daughter of 15 and a son of 10).  I also have another daughter who has just turned 17.  However, our first language is English.  We moved to the Netherlands on 3 July 2019, from Cape Town, and are living in Utrecht.

We always knew our daughter of 17 would need to go to an International School, and she's enrolled to start DP1 at ISU (International School of Utrecht) in September.  Initially I'd hoped that I could put our daughter of 15 into the Ithaka ISK school in Utrecht, but I eventually gave up on that idea, as the head of the school was strangely discouraging, and we were very concerned about her being surrounded mostly by children who spoke no English.   We eventually had to bite the bullet and decide to put Julia (15) into the ISU as well, as she is academically not especially strong, and bilingual schools can be a challenge, because in just a year or two suddenly all her exams would be in Dutch, and she would really struggle.  But perhaps your daughter will be absolutely fine in a bilingual school; you just need to find a bilingual school that is willing to take her on, as some of them are concerned about the Dutch language acquisition!

As far as my son of 10 is concerned, he is starting at Taalschool Utrecht, where he will be immersed in learning Dutch (and learning with other children in the same situation, from all over the world), and then be "migrated" to a basis school that is nearby, probably to start there in September 2020.   So year at the Taalschool should be adequate.

Let me know if you want to chat further.  I'm on ***.  Good luck!

Kari

Hi all.

I don't have much to add except something about the Afrikaans language and how it fits in the Netherlands; strictly my own opinion.

Afrikaans is a circa 200 year old language that is a mixture of Dutch, German, English and African tribal languages as they were spoken at that time; as a language it hasn't developed much in that time.

Day to day, nobody in the Netherlands speaks Afrikaans (except other South Africans) and while many Dutch speaking people will understand you, I think the fairest thing to be said is that knowing Afrikaans will definitely help somebody to learn Dutch, but that's about the sum of its worth.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

Hi and thank you (Ramses K, CapetownKari and Cynic) for your prompt replies and input!

@Ramses K, thank you, I did not realise that the exams are still in Dutch in the bilingual schools.  I presumed that the subjects presented in English would also have exams in English.  Also, I did not know that the CITO test is done in every grade (I thought it was only done at the end of the grade at 12 y/o).  Does this mean that in every grade from 12 y/o you have the opportunity to switch streams?  It seems that private Dutch lessons would then be required to acquire sufficient Dutch to allow transition to a Dutch school at some point.

@CapetownKari, firstly I am very happy to see that your plans worked out and that you were able to relocate (I've read your previous posts some time ago).  I hope that you are adjusting well.  Thank you too for your input and experience and confirming that bilingual schools have Dutch exams.  I thought I had read somewhere that Taalschool will not be an option, but I will now definitely look into this some more.  Also thank you for your offer regarding contacting you directly...I will for sure make use of it in the event that I get offered and accept the job (we have so many questions!).

@Cynic, thank you for your comments.  I realise that Afrikaans is similar but in no way identical to Dutch.  I therefore think that you may be right in saying it could be of benefit when learning Dutch.  I find that I understand written Dutch quite well, but that following a fast flowing conversation is tricky and similarly most Dutch people that I have talked with will understand the gist of what I am saying (when talking slowly in Afrikaans) but that the nuances are often missed.  Anyway, I did not mention the fact that our home language is Afrikaans as a possible positive factor, but rather to mention that although my kids' English is good, it is not their first language.

I have managed to set up meetings with an international school and a bilingual secondary school in the week that I will be there for my interview, and hope to get their suggestions as well.

I'd still like to hear from anybody who may have had their children in an international school first, and then transitioned across to a Dutch school.  Specifically whether the International School results are taken into account for deciding on which stream MAVO / HAVO / VWO one is able to move to, or whether a CITO test is conducted.

Thanks!

Hello!

Just to let you know that I gather the move from International School over to Dutch school is almost unheard of, especially for older children, sadly .  The schooling systems are just so fundamentally different.  But perhaps there will be someone who has gone that route!

PaxNL wrote:

Hi and thank you (Ramses K, CapetownKari and Cynic) for your prompt replies and input!

@Ramses K, thank you, I did not realise that the exams are still in Dutch in the bilingual schools.  I presumed that the subjects presented in English would also have exams in English.  Also, I did not know that the CITO test is done in every grade (I thought it was only done at the end of the grade at 12 y/o).  Does this mean that in every grade from 12 y/o you have the opportunity to switch streams?  It seems that private Dutch lessons would then be required to acquire sufficient Dutch to allow transition to a Dutch school at some point.

@CapetownKari, firstly I am very happy to see that your plans worked out and that you were able to relocate (I've read your previous posts some time ago).  I hope that you are adjusting well.  Thank you too for your input and experience and confirming that bilingual schools have Dutch exams.  I thought I had read somewhere that Taalschool will not be an option, but I will now definitely look into this some more.  Also thank you for your offer regarding contacting you directly...I will for sure make use of it in the event that I get offered and accept the job (we have so many questions!).

@Cynic, thank you for your comments.  I realise that Afrikaans is similar but in no way identical to Dutch.  I therefore think that you may be right in saying it could be of benefit when learning Dutch.  I find that I understand written Dutch quite well, but that following a fast flowing conversation is tricky and similarly most Dutch people that I have talked with will understand the gist of what I am saying (when talking slowly in Afrikaans) but that the nuances are often missed.  Anyway, I did not mention the fact that our home language is Afrikaans as a possible positive factor, but rather to mention that although my kids' English is good, it is not their first language.

I have managed to set up meetings with an international school and a bilingual secondary school in the week that I will be there for my interview, and hope to get their suggestions as well.

I'd still like to hear from anybody who may have had their children in an international school first, and then transitioned across to a Dutch school.  Specifically whether the International School results are taken into account for deciding on which stream MAVO / HAVO / VWO one is able to move to, or whether a CITO test is conducted.

Thanks!

Hi again.

CITO is not done automatically every year, it's an exam undertaken at 12 years old, once passed, that's it.  However, a child is not written off at that stage if they don't pass, it can be retaken after that whenever the school, teacher and parents agree to it - all 3 must agree, it's not something you alone can instigate.  For example, the child may have missed the test through illness, or just had a bad day and all agree that it should be retested; so providing your child gets their Dutch up to scratch and all agree, then it can be retaken after 12.  The absolute requirement to switch streams is, apart from the educational ability, that the child can speak, write and read Dutch to a native standard; the CITO tests are only held in Dutch, which probably explains why the International schools don't offer it as they don't teach in Dutch.

As for Afrikaans; I agree with you; I can understand most of it and I'm not a native Dutcch speaker, the thing that tends to screw things up is your accent, so yes, speak slowly.  The fact that your kids are already bilingual means that learning another language shouldn't be a problem for them.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

Hi Cynic,

Your wrong about the CITO test in most of ours schools it is now yearly done. It is a recent change. You are right about the tests are in Dutch.

Yes we Dutch can understand quite a bit Afrikaans and we enjoyed Die Antwoord

Ramses K. wrote:

Hi Cynic,

Your wrong about the CITO test in most of ours schools it is now yearly done. It is a recent change. You are right about the tests are in Dutch.

Yes we Dutch can understand quite a bit Afrikaans and we enjoyed Die Antwoord

Hi.

Yeah, that's what I said, not every child takes the exam every year (once they have passed, thats it), but those who don't have it will get the chance to take it the next year providing the teacher and the parents agree.

Hi All,

Thank you for your further comments.

I was in the Netherlands last week for my job interview and used the opportunity to also meet with three school principles (Dutch primary, Dutch secondary and an International school).

In essence their recommendations are in line with those of Ramses K, being an international school for my 15 y/o and a Dutch (normal state) school for my 10 y/o son. 

It was quite an enjoyable experience, speaking Afrikaans with the Dutch Primary (elementary) school principle, while he spoke Dutch in return.  His opinion was that my son would probably not require a Taalklas year, based on how we were able to communicate.  He also said that CITO can be wavered (at age 12) if the learner has been in the Netherlands for less than 2 years.  In this case, the school would recommend which Secondary school (MAVO / HAVO / VWO) the child go to based on his / her performance in the school and not the formal CITO test.  This was new info to me, so I thought I would post it here for others to be aware of.

The Dutch secondary school principle, said that my daughter could be accommodated in the school, and that some kids her age do this and make it, but most struggle.  He noted that a concession could be obtained from the school body in order that she would not get marked down on her Dutch ability (spelling mistakes in a history test for instance), but that she would probably still struggle to keep up due to the technical terms that would be used in some subjects.

CapetownKari, your statement of the few transitions from International to public school was also reinforced by both the International school and Dutch Secondary school principles.  This seems to be the reserve of Dutch expats returning home with their children as a transition back into the Dutch system, but even they sometimes leave their kids in an International school (depending on the age of the child).

I am therefore 90 / 10 sure that my son could fit into a Dutch school and that my daughter will be better off in an International school.