Are you happy in Hungary?

Oh boy, I have lived in "happy places" such as on Maui in the 1970's, everyone smiled and everyone waved hello to strangers, no one honked car horns and people went out of their way to leave gifts outside the door.
Open the front door to find a couple of fresh pineapples placed on everyone's door step, invites to baby showers from causal friends.
No place is as happy as Hawaii so I am the wrong person to talk about Hungary.
I do know from the 43 years of knowing HUngarians that there is a strong pain in the soul of the people in general.
Old wounds that seem to have been handed down over the generations, not exactly the happy, forgiving kind of people, their history has been hard and that forms the soul.
In general, I would say I was allot happier in Hawaii, Calif or any other state in the US. I will also say I am getting older that that is not exactly  a great feeling either. My views may be tainted by age and experience of living in others places in other decades.
I am happy that the prices are reasonable here but no, I do not plan on being buried here, need a few more sunny days with smiling faces to look at.
The prospect of ever going into hospital again here in HU and dealing with the angry staff and feeling helpless because of the language and the fact that your ill, is not a happy thing to think about. As one ages, the odds of having to check in before you check out are high.
No thanks, gave it a go and no dice.
Not sure if it is the long months of grey weather or just some sort of cultural pain but no Hungarians are not happy.
My son was married to a young HU women and she was about the most kill joy ever.
Just not cool to be helpful or happy in Hungary I suppose.
I may be a strange one but I know I can feel energy from the elements. So many tragic episodes in HU history that even the trees and buildings have a sad feel to them.
It is a great place to write a few sad love songs but for happiness no think a less complicated place would be more conducive  to happiness.HU tend to love to hold on to pain even when the threat is long gone.Maybe it is the same way in most former Soviet countries, just a shared sense of pain and being miserable allot of the time.
Always waiting for the shoe to drop so to speak.
I know my MIL when she got older would buy only a couple of slices of lunch meat at a time.Go out a day later and buy more. I asked why she didn't just buy more at one time. She said she may be dead by the next day. That pretty much sums up my feelings about how many people act over here, a bummer really.
Of course that is a general view, there are always rare people who are happy anywhere all the time, usually though here in HU they are locked away for their own good.

Priscilla wrote:

According to the 2016 UN World Happiness Survey, Denmark, Switzerland and Iceland are the happiest countries on earth.

Ironically, I lived in Switzerland for many years, and those were the most miserable years of my life.

There money often defined happiness. Money from possibly nefarious sources. I could never reconcile with that.

But that is just me.

Priscilla wrote:

How about you? Are you happy in Hungary? Do you feel happier today in your host country than before in your home country? What has contributed to the change?

I have become more realistic about Hungary over the years (first came here in 1998, and have lived here full time for almost a decade). Happiness is relative. It is almost, in my opinion, ridiculous to complain about life when millions currently face displacement and starvation. One can be has happy or sad as one chooses.

If I choose to be happy, I will be.

As for Hungary in general, let me just say I have become more disappointed about Hungary over the most recent 6 years. And I will just leave it at that.

Priscilla wrote:

In your opinion, are locals in Hungary happy? How can you tell?

Honestly, I do not know. I can not read their minds.

But I do know that most of the youth where I live can not wait to leave (often wanting to go abroad), while everyone else I greet in our village rarely smiles at me. I like to have a smile when I meet people, which makes me obviously odd here. Frowns are more common than smiles. Marilyn, above, already gave a review so I will not go on much further here. Except to confirm that I have never seen so many people hold so many grudges for so many years except here in Hungary. I know of quite a few examples even in our own tiny village were people will not talk to each other because of some trivial little issue that happened decades ago.

I hate to say this, but the tendency to hold onto the past, including past grievances, really is unprecedented here compared to anyplace else I have ever been. But of course, I have not been everywhere. 

I was happier in my previous 'sojourn' from 1990 to 1996 than I have been in the last five years. I also think that Hungarians were happier then, more optimistic about their future in a reunited continent. Large numbers of the young and talented have 'migrated' west, disappointed by the lack of opportunities and slow economic progress here. They were more welcoming to 'strangers' then too, whether British ex-pats or refugees from former Yugoslavia. The country has turned in on itself over the last decade, and although it is still beautiful in many ways, and a top destination for tourists, I wouldn't encourage anyone to relocate here at present, unless, like me, they have dependants here.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

.....
I know my MIL when she got older would buy only a couple of slices of lunch meat at a time.Go out a day later and buy more. I asked why she didn't just buy more at one time. She said she may be dead by the next day. That pretty much sums up my feelings about how many people act over here, a bummer really.
Of course that is a general view, there are always rare people who are happy anywhere all the time, usually though here in HU they are locked away for their own good.

That's just weird. 

Why would she care about her luncheon met anything after she's dead?! Too late then to care what's in the fridge.

Bummer indeed.

Anyway, I have discussed this general lack of happiness with Mrs Fluffy over the years.  She tells me that it was built into the system to try and keep everyone serious.  In a sense, it's self-preservation. Laughing at the Commissar would get you into serious trouble.  Saying Orban is demented would get you arrested (you can say it now and the sky will not fall in on you).  The system pushed people down, alcoholism, schadenfreude, lack of freedoms, sexism etc. One of the worst behaviours I've ever seen is bullying in the workplace. Sufficient for people to leave the job.   

That's for middle aged folks brought up under Communism.   It took sometime for Mrs Fluffy to realise that she could actually be free of that and it was possible to have some fun without looking over your shoulder. 

I notice my kids are generally happy and younger people (in school) seem to be happier overall.  They have not been infected by a national malaise yet.

I don't know anyone in the mid-20s in HU to comment on their feelings but I tend to agree with other posters - they usually want to leave for another country.  I would encourage them to go as well.  Mainly because they will probably come back at some point, richer for the experience and at least some of them may change the "national character".

My other kids in their mid to late 20s don't live in HU but the UK . They seem to be much happier and optimistic and confident than those here.  But they have decent degree level jobs, cars, houses and disposable income.

I agree that people at least the young people we met around the years 2000 were so much more optimistic then what we see here in Budapest now.
My son lived in Budapest for over a year with his HU wife and her mother.
People then in the 20's looked "sharper" they dressed nice, hair was cut into a modern style and people actually smiled more.
Now it seems some have given up or just don't have the money to enjoy their youth as one should.
I remember watching the Love Parade on Andrassy Utca back then.
Just sitting on my little folding chair enjoying the music and young people even young women would come by smiling at me for having a good time, some even rubbed the top of my head as they passed by, sweet really.
The attitude has changed, I still feel like the same person but everyone I run into has a sour face, walks past like they want to knock you over for being alive, you can feel the frustration pouring out of them, lashing out at anyone in their way.
Just nasty at times, even some store clerks act like your bothering them .
Tourists don't see the real side of life here much.
I know my husband even seems a bit more "happy" in the US. He tends to also take everything much more serious here in HU.
It is like a old wound that won't heal, something happens and he reverts into a mini- paranoia. He is 69 and grew up in the thick of the hard times. Left HU when he was 23.
I can see he is happier in the US even if it also has it own set of issues over there.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

......
The attitude has changed, I still feel like the same person but everyone I run into has a sour face, walks past like they want to knock you over for being alive, you can feel the frustration pouring out of them, lashing out at anyone in their way....I can see he is happier in the US even if it also has it own set of issues over there.

We are of a similar age Marilyn.  Maybe we (I include myself) are over-romanticising the world as it was way back then.

But I can definitely understand your hubby.  He's free of the past when back in the US and it sounds to me like the US provided the opportunity for self-improvement and he's done well out of it. Shackles were off. It's not the same as Hungary was (until 1990 anyway in theory).

You may be correct, aging takes the wind out of even the most positive of souls.
It ain't for the weak , as they say...
Still able to rock my skinny jeans... for now.
I do remember however being a "cool kid" of age 12 and going to Love-In's with my older sister in the 60's, people actually were more positive back then.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

You may be correct, aging takes the wind out of even the most positive of souls.
It ain't for the weak , as they say...
Still able to rock my skinny jeans... for now.
I do remember however being a "cool kid" of age 12 and going to Love-In's with my older sister in the 60's, people actually were more positive back then.

It's easy to be positive when younger - life stretching far ahead, good health, no responsibilities, endless summer etc.

Skinny jeans, yay, go girl.  Myself, I'm a "retired" hippy come biker with kids but people tell me I'm "young" for my age.   I'll have to remind my failing knees I'm supposed to be younger! I suppose I could buy a motorbike and a leather jacket.  Working knees not required.

Don't give up just yet, my eldest sister is 69 and rides her own bike when the weather permits in Minn.
She also hunts with a bow and arrow, brought down her own deer, skinned it and all.
She is the older brother, we always wanted... just kidding, she is tough though.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....he also hunts with a bow and arrow, brought down her own deer, skinned it and all....

She'd be popular here.

I'm happy in hungary but then I am the sort of person who can be happy in most places.  Once I have my home as I like it with familiar things I can be anywhere.
I have not been all over Hungary yet but the hungarian people I meet in the countryside seem happy enough.  Life is more basic there compared to Budapest.
Budapest is very different because it tends to be much more multi cultural in the center of budapest where I live.  There are many short term visitors who are on holiday and longer term visitors such as students. I mainly meet Hungarians who are in the service industry and the older generation can appear to be grumpy because they tend not to smile a lot.  My hungarian city friends tend to like traveling like me and are family orientated so I would consider that they are mainly happy with their lot.

Many older Hungarians are not happy , I wouldn't be either if I had given up my youth working hard to be a comrade only to see in the end I had been put on a shelf with a tiny monthly income from SS.
Some Hu get as little as 48,000 forints per month to live on after years of working hard.
When the system changed over, prices and everything became closer to western EU standards. Those already retired and ready to retire got the shaft.
Our next door neighbor as just one example.
Worked hard all her life in a medical pill factory, was born in the apt. she still lives in.
When the system changed she had a chance to buy it from the gov. but didn't even have the few thousand bucks needed to purchase the place.
Her daughter and son in law bought it and she now has a tiny bed up in the main loft that is her area.
She gives them her entire tiny monthly check each month for her upkeep and keeps herself to herself.

I Iove Hungarians and Hungary. 
Proud to be Hungarian.
I think at present the pricing of apartments is overvalued and wages too low.
I guess that can be said about everywhere. 

I think most Hungarians say to me that they don't need a lot to live off.
Looking ahead when you are older and jobs are not like you used to have, your nest is the only survival you will have.

The people I know, are chasing the forint and therefore less time for more happiness. 
Just my 2 forints but I have a lot to learn.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

...
Her daughter and son in law bought it and she now has a tiny bed up in the main loft that is her area.
She gives them her entire tiny monthly check each month for her upkeep and keeps herself to herself.

Don't think much of that. 

They could have bought it, let her live in it in perpetuity and paid everything else for her too.

It's fairly common to buy apartments here and then let the parents (or whoever) live it until their deaths.

On the other hand I see people in Hungary who are sitting on substantial assets - houses and land etc - and have no income effectively.  I know it's easy to say, but it seems no-one has ever heard of downsizing.

"On the other hand I see people in Hungary who are sitting on substantial assets - houses and land etc - and have no income effectively.  "
What do you mean?  They have tangible assets but don't work?

Sometimes people are reluctant to sell houses and property because they are hoping that family who have moved abroad for employment will eventually return. Being able to afford housing to rent or to buy is often a factor when moving and settling abroad. Being able to afford a home contributes greatly to the happiness factor.

blonder wrote:

"On the other hand I see people in Hungary who are sitting on substantial assets - houses and land etc - and have no income effectively.  "
What do you mean?  They have tangible assets but don't work?

Big houses with multiple rooms (the only substantial asset), kids flown the nest, partner deceased or departed, miniscule pension and no other capital or sources of income.  In other words: asset rich, cash poor.

I suppose people don't downsize homes for a variety of reasons.  Some people like me like a lot of space.  Also packing up and moving home is fairly expensive.
Although I would like to stay in Hungary because I am happy I would have difficulty choosing a place to make a big move to in the future. As I get older I would prefer to be somewhere with a longer summer.

Many people in HU have inherited property from a older aunt, uncle or grandparent.
My niece bought a house in Erd with her long time boyfriend and her kids.
Her mom and dad divorced both had houses in Erd, her dad died and she got his house as his only child.Her mom is getting up in years so anytime she can be getting yet another home.
She also did a "trick" years ago. My husbands uncle lived in a fixed up flat in the 5th district.
This one niece went to college in the city and put her name on his flat  for school. When he died she claimed she lived there with him and got the whole flat to herself.
We had no interest in HU at that time so never made a fuss about it, my MIL was his only surviving relation and she just let the niece take over the flat as her own personal rental for income.
This is how many HU live, they live off rentals from dead relations.
One next door neighbor to us inherited his elderly aunts flat right after we moved in 11 years ago.
Was only in his early 30's late 20's then, he fixed it up for nearly nothing since it was a freebie for him.
In HU most people do not move away, sell their homes and go across the country like we do in the US.
I see now with many of my old school mates in the US that they are now starting to inherit property from their parents, one friend was begging last year at the bank for a loan, this year after her MIL died she is spending weekends at the Bellagio in Vegas even though her house is a few blocks away. Spending like there is no tomorrow.This is now the second house she received from deceased relatives, wonder how long she will take to piss this house money away too, maybe next year she will be begging for another bank loan.
Can't all get lucky like that though, too bad I come from a family of 6 kids, when my mom passed away we only received a token amount of funds, I never cared though, I was happy to know my mom blew most of it within the last year she was alive, she deserved to have some fun for once.

anns wrote:

Sometimes people are reluctant to sell houses and property because they are hoping that family who have moved abroad for employment will eventually return.

Yes. That is part of it.

But also so many of the Hungarians I know keep rooms or houses for relatives who are actually still in Hungary. The concept of "couch surfing" at a friend's or relative's house on "vacation" in Hungary seems to be all to common. It seems a quid-quo-pro event, with house swapping. Our neighbor across the street even built a new house, two stories, without any internal stairs, specifically for part of the house to be for family members and friends. I have, personally, never seen such a common construction concept except in Hungary. Even the house we eventually bought, which was much older, had a similar design (during renovation we of course added an internal connection between all parts of the house).

anns wrote:

Being able to afford a home contributes greatly to the happiness factor.

For some people this is true. But others may only age into this.

As for myself, I was most happy in my youth to NOT own a house or property. I did not want to be tied to any fixed assets. Very liberating. I even negotiated month by month rents. Very much enjoyed my freedom and literally spent my youth traveling 5 continents while my knees and back were still able to handle my backpack.

But eventually, I bought property. But mostly because I wanted a vineyard, and the house just came with it. So for me, and me alone maybe, the grapes were what really make me happy.

If we sell out here we are going rental .
I love being able to call up the manager with any issues and moving if and when we get sick of the neighbors or the building.
We actually only bought in HU because part of the investment was from part of a HU inheritance.
We didn't want to pay the high taxes or the conversion rates 11 years ago to take the money and run.
We did own a large nice home in S. Cal. at one time but everything else was always a rental. Nice having someone else clean and pay for the pool supplies and yard upkeep.
Always lived in a large house as a kid growing up, never lived in a apt. until I left home on my own.
Next time we go home if ever to the US we will either live in a home with our son but more then likely move to a senior aged apt. complex, swimming pools, community center room with activities, bus shuttle service and on property security guards.
Funny how that used to sound horrible to me but as one ages, it sounds just lovely.
I would never have been able to experience living in 10 different US states and moving to HU if I was tied down by a house.

I think you can be happy renting or buying but the important thing is liking where you are living,  having the freedom to move quickly when you wish to and affordability.

Budapest was a much different - and much better - place when I came here in '93. Yes, I've aged and my opinions, views on some things have changed. However, I'd definitely say that the city - if not the entire country - has steadily gone downhill over the past 10 years or so. Am I happy? No, not really but I'm aware that there are people out there with REAL day to day problems which dwarf my complaints. I just came back from two months in Canada and have to get used to the constant negativity here. That's probably my biggest complaint about this place.

With you 100% Grant M, feel the same way.
Seemed like things were going on the upswing around the year 2000 and slowly but surly came crashing down over the past decade or so.
My son wants to come here, I keep telling him it is not the same as it was over 10 years ago when he lived here.
Have some ex-pat friends here who probably don't understand why I say things are not like they used to be here.
Of course everything changes, we change and move on emotionally.
At least so far we have done our own personal agenda here, maybe it is time to try something new.
Getting old but not settled down for life in one spot, too many new adventures to explore before the curtain goes down.
Only problem is the mind wants to do things but sometimes the body doesn't want to come along for the ride.

I suppose one good thing is that if you recognise that you are unhappy is to have the ability to seek new horizons and move on.
Life is too short to be unhappy . Sometimes people wish for a more golden age but the whole world has changed a lot over the last 25 years so I am not surprised that people think that places have deteriorated.
However, happiness can just be a state of mind . If you were young and carefree in 93 that could alter your perception of the place.

I think it ironic that most of the contributors here are complaining that the Hungarians are negative, then are at least somewhat negative themselves! 

Young people want to move out from their parent's house and be more independent? Hardly a Hungarian youth problem. Yes, they may say they want to live abroad -- tons of teenagers have a "grass is always greener" mentality because they take so much for granted; they simply don't understand.  Not their fault, they simply imagine things better elsewhere. Until they get there. I know of three families, one with kids, two without, who moved to the UK from Hungary (Yes, they were Hungarians), and all three moved back to Hungary disillusioned by the experience, and happier to be back in Hungary. (One took a side trip to Poland for 8 months first, but then came back).  But again, I think it is common for the young to travel.

Returning to the OP questions...
Are the local Hungarians happy?  Some are, some not. Just like all folks, depends on many things including health, finances, situations, etc.

Am I happy to be in Hungary?  Absolutely!  I haven't been here as long as some (only 6 years for me), but I get along quite well with my Hungarian friends and they treat me well in return, even referring to me like a family member.  Yes, Hungarians look depressed when riding a bus or on the tram, but a cardinal rule in London is don't talk on the tube. Which reminds me of the joke, how can you tell when tourists are on the tube? They are the ones talking.  So quiet depressed faces in Britain, Japan, most of NYC, Philadelphia -- this has been my experience as well.  But that doesn't mean in other environments / settings you don't see them optimistic and happy.

I only use my car in the countryside so I mix more with people on public transport than in the past.  However I can't really judge people's demeanour on the trains and busses because we are all involved in the serious business of getting from A to B.
On   my last two trips to the UK I used National buses and local buses and there were similar serious looks. I would have to know somebody really well to be able to judge their level of happiness.
I would encourage anybody to experience life in a different country if they can.
Some people are naturally serious and some are more happy go lucky and you will find both types everywhere. However it does tend to be more extroverted people  who are more inclined to travel, settle and chat to strangers.

I love Budapest and I love Hungarians. Like everywhere there are happy and sad people.

As someone who lived in Asia almost 30 years as a Caucasian, I did learn that it's what you make it.

I love reading Marilyn's posts as I have always believed that ladies like her best understand from the outside looking in and vice versa how people see themselves and others. I find that to be true. As a new Hungarian citizen, I know that I have an accent and always will.  But my blood is Hungarian.  Saying this only I can make the best of Hungary and for our short lives make the best of it.

After spending a month is Slovakia dealing with the bloody corruption and nasty attitudes of the depressed mass here, I can say without a doubt that the city, people and life in Budapest is incredible and I find the people fascinating.

Maybe I'm still wearing rose colored glasses but I have the right to live in N America, Asia and EU due to citizenship and after all these years and 65 countries later...imádom Budapestet! 

Some places are clearly hell but with enough money and the right attitude - it's all up to us to make this one-way ticket the best we can.  <3 to the group.

I'm happy.

As for the reasons... My home country is Russia; I think no more reasons are necessary.

Vicces1 wrote:

.....but a cardinal rule in London is don't talk on the Tube. Which reminds me of the joke, how can you tell when tourists are on the Tube? They are the ones talking.  So quiet depressed faces in Britain, Japan, most of NYC, Philadelphia -- this has been my experience as well....

Actually that no talking rule is only in London.  It's heads down, be introverted.  It's different in other places, especially in the North, where speaking to strangers at the bus stop is just a normal thing. In fact people will go out of their way to grumble about anything and everything with any receptive stranger.  After all, for many older people, this kind of social interaction - on the bus, at the Post Office etc - can sometimes be the only contact they have with other people.  Sad but true.  As I have got older, I am quite happy to chat at the bus stop, on the train or just walking around.  I even enjoy it. When I was younger it was a different story.

I'm social by nature, optimistic, quick to smile and laugh, and I laugh loudly.
Joy should be hidden and everyone likes to see a smile!

Guess there was a good reason mama always said, "Don't talk to strangers".
I am happy not to have to BS about allot of subjects while in the check out line. I am busy enough packing my goods and making sure I give the correct amount of money.
At least here in Budapest we don't usually find people on the bus acting  like they do in Vegas.
Wow, my husband's car was in the shop years back in Vegas so he took the bus to work for 3 days.
What an adventure every morning, from women not only putting their makeup on on the bus to them actually applying deo under their armpits! He sat near a young women who was giving a good floor show doing herself up, the comments from other riders was hysterical, Looking good mama was one of the many comments made to her, She carried on like she was in her own bath at home.Spraying herself to the cries of smelling good, mama.
Men shaving their faces on the bus,all sorts of oddballs.
Son took the bus once for 4 day, car issues again. Women would come over sit near him or stand at the stop trying to pick him up, they noticed he was wearing a casino uniform.
They said things like, I can be your girlfriend since you have a job!
There is a good reason not to always talk to strangers, Free show for the price of a bus ride.

Oh shucks Blonder, making me blush.

Vicces1 wrote:

I think it ironic that most of the contributors here are complaining that the Hungarians are negative, then are at least somewhat negative themselves! 

A little bit of argumentum ad hominem?

Vicces1 wrote:

Young people want to move out from their parent's house and be more independent? Hardly a Hungarian youth problem.

Actually, I am sure most people here were not referring to the common teenager's desire to get out of the parents house. But quite another, and very significant problem, which has been reported at many places, and many times. Such as at the WSJ:

Half of Young Hungarians Open to Leaving Country

In other words, many youth simply see less life opportunity here in Hungary than elsewhere, which normally means abroad. This is not unique to Hungary of course. It is even in its own, American, way also an issue in parts of the USA.

Vicces1 wrote:

I know of three families, one with kids, two without, who moved to the UK from Hungary (Yes, they were Hungarians), and all three moved back to Hungary disillusioned by the experience, and happier to be back in Hungary.

Anecdotal. I know of more families who's children left and have yet to come back. I know of one parent that followed her children abroad eventually. Of course my anecdotal stories are not better than yours. Which is why the above article is a better reference (and it is just one example -- easy to Google for more).

Vicces1 wrote:

Yes, Hungarians look depressed when riding a bus or on the tram, but a cardinal rule in London is don't talk on the tube. Which reminds me of the joke, how can you tell when tourists are on the tube? They are the ones talking.  So quiet depressed faces in Britain, Japan, most of NYC, Philadelphia -- this has been my experience as well.  But that doesn't mean in other environments / settings you don't see them optimistic and happy.

Again, I think most comments here were on how people (who have lived here a long time) have noticed a change in local behavior, not necessarily simply how people look today riding mass transit. Even my Hungarian in-laws have commented they have noted a change over time as well. So it is not just an Expat view (but I admit my in-laws are also anecdotal).

My Hungarian husband says in fact things here have changed.
Of course he has changed to but even our  HU neighbors who are his age and older agree with him.
Used to be more people watching out for each other, people would give their seats to older people without having to be asked .
I hardly ever do ride the public transport and many times younger women will give me a seat ( bum knees) before a young man will.
I never ask but some people get up when they notice I am just about falling over at every stop or bump on the tram or bus.
Husband said in his youth they just did it as a matter of course.
My husband even gave up his seat to a heavy set women in Belize for the long 3 hour ride, just because he said he could do it better then her, he was not young then either.
It is a me first attitude even on the sidewalks people will walk fast past you, cut you off because they want to enter a building you are near, makes no sense to me at all, can't they get into a merge mode or slow down the last 5 feet and let you pass by?Just odd, husband says people don't know how to walk.

Vicces1 wrote:

I'm social by nature, optimistic, quick to smile and laugh, and I laugh loudly.
Joy should be hidden and everyone likes to see a smile!

OOPS -- Joy shouldn't be hidden!!

Evidently the fact that generational behavior changes over time and is judged differently  by the older vs younger generations is a news flash....

Manners never go out of style though.