Common misconceptions and clichés about life in Vietnam

Um.. Idk exacly . ive been here just for 4 months

I did some research about Vietnam before heading here (or more honestly my friend who I came here with did some research ).  I knew this country as a developing country, so I had an idea that I would see some cultural/traditional trends mixed with modern life styles.  All in all, Ho Chi Minh has proven that correct.  You can have tastes of what Vietnam was like prior to the big city boom, but also get consumed by a metropolis vibe.

Misconceptions:
#1 - Food
I came here thinking I would be eating mainly rice dishes or pho.  Quickly you find out that the western culture is quite prominent and you can grab a burger or eat some Italian food in any district.  This is in the city of course, if you venture out into the country side, living is completely different. 

#2 - Expats are all English Teachers
I arrived to Vietnam with no job, but an idea that I could get a job at an English center easily.  This was true when you have a bachelor degree and years of teaching experience.  What I came to realize the longer I lived here was the expat scene spans far greater than an English center teacher.  I now am a maths teacher at an international school and absolutely love it.  I have friends that are engineers, bar owners, etc.  When you decide to become a full time expat, the backpacker scene becomes more distant and more options present themselves.

#3 - The language barrier
Buy as many "how to speak Vietnamese" books as you can before you enter Vietnam...just kidding!  Maybe 20 years ago the Vietnamese cared little to learn and practice the English language, but recently with tourism at an all time high, the locals must learn some English to be successful.  I haven't had a problem with the language barrier.  When you live in a country for more than a year, I hope you can appreciate and learn some of the local tongue anyways.  If you haven't, you can still get by pretty easily. 

#4 - Expat men are here for VN women
Gross.  My friends and I did not and do not have that mindset.  But there are some that do.

#5 - VN women are on the prowl for western men
Again...gross.  We are all humans and we are in a major city.  People act the same in New York I find.  Sure, there are the occasional stories, but if you're respectful and know how to be a good person, those stories should never find you. 

These are only a few misconceptions I'm sure.  But I hope it helps with some thinking about making the venture over or for those that are new.

Cheers!

Addy

I have signed off of most ex pat fb sites as i am sick and tired of the abuse of local people, sure they are a developing country, thats an oportunity to help, yes they have differences in culture but the is for us to learn not despise, forsure there is going to be a price difference in certain areas between what expats pay and what locals pay, its never much and as an expat you should seriously ask yourself should i be here if i cant afford it. Dont make comparrisons with your western life and life here because if you do you will always be disappointed

Before arriving I was told about low cost of living.  After just one month here I'm not convinced it's cheap to live in HCMC.  The MacDonalds test confirmed this.  Taxi drivers try to take you for a ride.  They think we're stupid and have no idea we
here we're going.  They forget we have google and GPS too and know the shorter routes.

A shop assistant said to me "it's only USD50" when I told her the item was too expensive.  Does she really think VN can be compared to the US??  Surprise, surprise if she thought the US is as backward as VN.  200g of Nescafe is more than double the price I paid in Hong Kong.

Maybe the Vietnamese and other expats think it's cheap here, but I certainly don't.  Only the salaries they pay here is "cheap" if compared with other decent Asian countries.

Auret,

If you're allowing your self to get ripped off, who's fault is it? Theirs or yours?

Zep--

Have you ever tried to bargain in a supermarket or at MacDonalds?  Clearly you don't know what the MacDonalds test is.

thanks for invitation.
1. Vietnam is poor and backward.
After I come to vietnam and lived here for one year, I thought not exactly that poor that backward. For example, in Ho Chi Minh City, the city infrastructure is kind of backward with messy road and buildings, however, you can buy almost anything you want to buy for living. From high-end products in International shopping center like Vincom and Parkson, to all kinds of things in big markets with lower prices, you can buy everything.
2. Weather must be very hot.
Sure the weather is hot in Southern vietnam, however, it's still acceptable. Especally at night, the weather is comfortable.
3. Vietnamese people must looks like different from Chinese people.
After I come here, I found that vietnamese people looks like Chinese people so much that you even couldn't distinguish when they stand together.

Misconception: I anticipated with a certain amount of anxiety that a communist country would feel more oppressive and controlling, the people sheepish and conforming, with visible military presence. Well it isn't a free society, and I see citizens terrified of the police, because of corrupted power and lack of accountability. But as an expat I am mostly oblivious to government policies. I feel more free in many ways than in the US. I keep my eyes open for the tan-uniformed traffic cops tho.

Cliché that is true: socialist propaganda, the huge posters crack me up. Sad is the creative history citizens are taught in schools. Ask them about the wonderful reunification.

Cliché that is true: nón lá hats - I didn't expect to see them anymore! A daily reminder you are in Vietnam. Too bad many Asian countries have lost their individuality to modernization.

The interplay between Ho Chi Minh and Le Duan and Le Duan's impact on Viet Nam's history and progress. Note, Soldiers, even retired ones tend to be rather serious students of history.

Perhaps the best research on the subject in the Vietnamese National Archives is

Hanoi's War
An International History of the War for Peace in Vietnam
By Lien-Hang T. Nguyen

http://uncpress.unc.edu/browse/book_det … le_id=2850https://www.amazon.com/Hanois-War-Inter … oi%27s+war

also

Hanoi's Road to the Vietnam War, 1954-1965 (From Indochina to Vietnam: Revolution and War in a Global Perspective)
by Pierre Asselin

I think it would have been much more helpful & appropriate if you had cited some of these "common misconceptions & cliches about life in Vietnam", because I for one, am not aware of what they are. And when you say "in the eyes of the people", exactly which people are you referring to -- the people in other countries who are or are not considering visiting or relocating to Vietnam, people who have already relocated here, or the people of Vietnam? Personally, when I was preparing to make my first trip here, I only had what I had seen or heard on TV, read in the newspapers, documentaries I had watched & listened to, or other pictures I had seen & knowledge I had of the Vietnam War, for establishing in my mind what it might be like here. I even used the TV series 'MASH' to come up with what I thought it would be like, although MASH was actually in Korea. I only thought it would be tropical, hot, crowded, & with a lot of mosquitoes. All of those things are true, for sure. I was/am  surprised at how 'behind the times' they are here, how little most people have, how the Vietnamese abuse & mistreat their children, dogs, & cats compared to U.S. standards & ways, how little focus, money, & upkeep it appears that goes towards the schools & educational needs, how much environmental pollution there is, especially of the land & waters, & how little people seem to be educated on & have knowledge about general health, cleanliness, germs, & disease & its prevention. Those things stand out the most for me, & I find them very disturbing, appalling, & saddening.

A good question but complicated to answer.   Vietnam is a vast country and life in Saigon or Hanoi is different than Da Nang and all are different that touristic small towns like Hoi An or beach towns like Nha Trang.
I have lived - for a long time - in Saigon and Da Nang.   Even within Saigon there are differences (District 1, 2, 7 are chock full of expats, Australian bars, pizza joints (usually with mediocre pizza), ultra chic (and largely empty) shopping malls and many accoutrements of Western conspicuous consumption.  District 11 is a truly Vietnamese neighborhood (but still has those failing malls) and lots of alleys for local food,markets, etc.    The further away from the tourist centers the less likely you are to be perceived as a walking ATM (especially if you are male) and even in District 1 - the tourist epicenter - the hassle and hustle is minimal (compared to 15 years ago when I first visited)
Vietnam is much more "modern" than most people realize (that is a shock for newcomers), the wifi (when there isn't a storm or a planned "black out") is fast, and the conveniences of "home" are readily available. That is a surprise.
Trash is a problem (including on non tourist beaches), horns are used in lieu of signals, and in Saigon watch out for a family of 4 on a motorbike on the sidewalk heading the wrong way at you!   
It also can be quite expensive (bad pizza is US priced, wine is pricey unless it is the undrinkable Da Lat wine, electricity costs high and upscale apartment living is cheap compared to New York but can run into the 1,000 plus range easily.  You can also do it on the "cheap" if you are willing to go local.
The Vietnamese  have many wonderful attributes; although I hate to stereotype.    They are curious (and somewhat direct in asking questions, eager to practice English, generally helpful and friendly.  But, the country is hard to penetrate absent language skills in Vietnamese (and even with them), the public posture and "face" is often disconnected from their true feelings, and they have no qualms about stepping in front of you at the store scale, in a line or other venues.
Practice patience is my operative phrase and, as the Vietnamese say about things that may never occur - "step by step" .

me so horny 5$

NEVER HAPPENS

GUTTED

Fair points Addy. ...agree totally.

Commonsense don't let yourself get ripped off.  Learn the city somewhat understand where you're going don't pay extra for long taxi rides. Same with dining out look at your check.  Question if something doesn't look right.  If you call them out usually get the lower price.
Vietnam is very cheap compared to the rest of the world.  If you need a reminder take a weekend trip to Singapore.

DHuong wrote:

I think it would have been much more helpful & appropriate if you had cited some of these "common misconceptions & cliches about life in Vietnam", because I for one, am not aware of what they are. And when you say "in the eyes of the people", exactly which people are you referring to -- the people in other countries who are or are not considering visiting or relocating to Vietnam, people who have already relocated here, or the people of Vietnam? Personally, when I was preparing to make my first trip here, I only had what I had seen or heard on TV, read in the newspapers, documentaries I had watched & listened to, or other pictures I had seen & knowledge I had of the Vietnam War, for establishing in my mind what it might be like here. I even used the TV series 'MASH' to come up with what I thought it would be like, although MASH was actually in Korea. I only thought it would be tropical, hot, crowded, & with a lot of mosquitoes. All of those things are true, for sure. I was/am  surprised at how 'behind the times' they are here, how little most people have, how the Vietnamese abuse & mistreat their children, dogs, & cats compared to U.S. standards & ways, how little focus, money, & upkeep it appears that goes towards the schools & educational needs, how much environmental pollution there is, especially of the land & waters, & how little people seem to be educated on & have knowledge about general health, cleanliness, germs, & disease & its prevention. Those things stand out the most for me, & I find them very disturbing, appalling, & saddening.

You deserve credit for trying to do research Viet Nam before you came here. But, book learning and watching TV shows is no substitute for learning the language and becoming a reasonable fit into a forign culture.

For a number of reasons including French Colonialism, The Viet Nam War and Doctrinaire Communism  prior to "Doi Moi" Viet Nam's development was held back. But, a country can not snap their finger and jump from a 12th Century environment like my wife grew up in the Mekong Delta of the 1950's to 1970's, to a todays American/European level of development.

But, despite being one of the fastest developing countries in the World, Viet Nam has retained some of the virtues that more developed countries have lost. That is why a number of us have either retired here or work and live here.

"But, despite being one of the fastest developing countries in the World, Viet Nam has retained some of the virtues that more developed countries have lost. That is why a number of us have either retired here or work and live here."

Well said.    Viet Nam is well placed in the new world order, having learnt from the
mistakes of other cultures (no names!)   It is currently No.4 of world rice exporters
and has a strong primary produce and fast growing manufacturing economy. 

The Third World is now in its history.     Sure, a few flaws need a tweak or two, but
then compare the lack of conflict other countries suffer from like racism, religious,
class & caste intolerance and other 'social issues'..?    A long way in front.

Where else in the world do you see the desire young people have to learn, to change?

Viet Nam for me.     

Hey Bazza,
With permission,I'd like to quote your post and comment on it.

Well said.    Viet Nam is well placed in the new world order, having learnt from the
mistakes of other cultures (no names!)   It is currently No.4 of world rice exporters
and has a strong primary produce and fast growing manufacturing economy. 

The Third World is now in its history.     Sure, a few flaws need a tweak or two, but
then compare the lack of conflict other countries suffer from like racism, religious,
class & caste intolerance and other 'social issues'..?    A long way in front.

Where else in the world do you see the desire young people have to learn, to change?

Viet Nam for me.     

1. Vietnam is # 4 in of world rice exporters. Only for the time being.
China has seven hydroelectric dams in the upper Mekong river and plans to build twenty one more. Not to mention the Laos mega hydro electric dam on the Mekong.
These dams prevent the natural flow of this ancient river system and disrupt essential nutrients from  rich silt that flows downstream and settles on the delta floodplains to provide rich soils for healthy regular crop harvesting.When this nutrient stops,the crops fail or lose quality.
Also because of the dam walls,native fish species are unable to move upstream to traditional breeding grounds.These fish are stopped at/leading to the dam wall. Over fishing there has diminished irreplaceable stock leading to disaster.

2.The manufacturing industry is narrowing in Vietnam because the quality of product is decreasing.
On paper it appears to be growing ;however it is stagnant and growth percentage data is fudged so as to appeal more to the companies that may move elsewhere to higher quality and higher productive nations.
Just have a look at all the 60+ story apartments growing like mushrooms. Many apartments remain empty. Investment without community benefit.

3.Vietnam suffers from extreme xenophobia.
Foreigners are money bringers,short term  and nothing else.
Vietnamese don't like the Cambodians,the Chinese.The Northern folks don't like the southerns and the Southern folks don't like the northerners.

4. Youth in Vietnam today desire to learn for the simple reasons of wealth and Western (read American) idolatry.They want to be like the people they see online.  They want to change into American ideals.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OPLSO0zMObY/T … njicub.JPG

jimbream wrote:

Hey Bazza,
With permission,I'd like to quote your post and comment on it.

Well said.    Viet Nam is well placed in the new world order, having learnt from the
mistakes of other cultures (no names!)   It is currently No.4 of world rice exporters
and has a strong primary produce and fast growing manufacturing economy. 

The Third World is now in its history.     Sure, a few flaws need a tweak or two, but
then compare the lack of conflict other countries suffer from like racism, religious,
class & caste intolerance and other 'social issues'..?    A long way in front.

Where else in the world do you see the desire young people have to learn, to change?

Viet Nam for me.     

1. Vietnam is # 4 in of world rice exporters. Only for the time being.
China has seven hydroelectric dams in the upper Mekong river and plans to build twenty one more. Not to mention the Laos mega hydro electric dam on the Mekong.
These dams prevent the natural flow of this ancient river system and disrupt essential nutrients from  rich silt that flows downstream and settles on the delta floodplains to provide rich soils for healthy regular crop harvesting.When this nutrient stops,the crops fail or lose quality.
Also because of the dam walls,native fish species are unable to move upstream to traditional breeding grounds.These fish are stopped at/leading to the dam wall. Over fishing there has diminished irreplaceable stock leading to disaster.

2.The manufacturing industry is narrowing in Vietnam because the quality of product is decreasing.
On paper it appears to be growing ;however it is stagnant and growth percentage data is fudged so as to appeal more to the companies that may move elsewhere to higher quality and higher productive nations.
Just have a look at all the 60+ story apartments growing like mushrooms. Many apartments remain empty. Investment without community benefit.

3.Vietnam suffers from extreme xenophobia.
Foreigners are money bringers,short term  and nothing else.
Vietnamese don't like the Cambodians,the Chinese.The Northern folks don't like the southerns and the Southern folks don't like the northerners.

4. Youth in Vietnam today desire to learn for the simple reasons of wealth and Western (read American) idolatry.They want to be like the people they see online.  They want to change into American ideals.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OPLSO0zMObY/T … njicub.JPG

Point number one is very real, serious and troubling. But, it is not the fault of Viet Nam

Point number two seems over broad and doesn't match what I've observed since 1969. Looking back over the last 47 years manufacturing is much better today.

Point three still has a degree of truth, though, I've noticed a lot of improvement over the decades.

Point four is true for most people most everywhere. Most people, most places grow out of it, at least to some degree.

Over all your post tends to show that the Vietnamese are essentially normal imperfect humans.

Why do I live in Viet Nam

1) I can afford the level of home care that my wife of 43 years needs as her life ends and she can talk to the Doctors in her native language.

2) Vietnamese is one of my better languages and at 72 I have no interest in learning another new language

3) Too many memories over the last 47 years are from here.

4) In rural Viet Nam there is still a taste of the rural America of the 1940's and 1950's that I mostly grew up in and  find comforting. Even in Sai Gon, away from down town, a part of that taste remains

An additional thought about about humor in America vs Viet Nam.

Vietnamese humor is crude, vulgar and I love it. At it's best it is in the category of "I love Lucy." At worst, it displays a "Soldier's humor." In any case my Vietnamese is either"good enough," "bad enough" or both that I can make almost all Vietnamese seriously laugh.

Note, the laughter is mostly directed at me and my struggles in speaking Vietnamese. But, that is my intent. The end result is that a real and genuine smile shows up when people who have enjoyed my humor see me.

In America humor is essentially dead, except when aimed at working class whites. Good humor does need a target. In America, political correctness insists that only working class whites can be a target. In Viet Nam foreigners are a good target.

A bit of self depreciation humor goes a long way in getting along in any environment, especially a country like Viet Nam. I suggest playing up our deficiencies and making self depreciating jokes about them. Too many Vietnamese have to put up with foreigners who have the idea that they are God and the Vietnamese are mere peasants.

Self-deprecation is my specialty!

..but they laugh at me, not the jokes...

Looks like I'll never make a living as a stand-up comic...       

Bazza139 wrote:

Self-deprecation is my specialty!

..but they laugh at me, not the jokes...

Looks like I'll never make a living as a stand-up comic...       

In other words, you know how to take a joke and have enough self confidence to also have a chuckle yourself if the joke is good.

No, (missing my point?)

They are laughing AT me, not with me...   (sob!)

..they just 'don't get' my jokes.   I AM the joke...     

As a teacher, I feel I have failed...    ..but What The Fudge, I tried...     

  ..just another (missed) conception...       

I may have been dating myself with "I love Lucy," A 1950's TV show.

The show, which was the first scripted television program to be shot on 35 mm film in front of a studio audience, won five Emmy Awards and received numerous nominations.

I Love Lucy was the most watched show in the United States in four of its six seasons, and was the first to end its run at the top of the Nielsen ratings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Love_Lucy

I've been lurking just following this conversation. Everything said is true to varying degrees. Those of us who appreciate VN, accept its +'s -'s as reality. What I have learned while listening to these conversations, is that we exist as expats because of our other world experiences. Thanks everyone, for the affirmations that we all make our own reality.
Mac,

It's the Cambodians who don't like Vietnamese , due to historical grievances, but not the other way around.

Please,
Blanket biased assumptions of people to people are  so unfair. Everything comes down to relationships.

Mac68 wrote:

Please,
Blanket biased assumptions of people to people are  so unfair. Everything comes down to relationships.

This is true. But, it is also irrelevant. Blanket biased assumptions of people to people do exist widely and can be very powerful. Short of executing all humans, and the research seems to extend to include most mammals, we need to learn how to deal with reality.

Note; perhaps the most challenging job assignment in my life was providing support, simultaneously, to both the Cambodian and Vietnamese military forces in early 1971. One example of the challenges, was dealing with a Cambodian Sailor attempting murder suicide against a group of Vietnamese military personal  by hand grenade in our chow hall.

Also note; I had good friends in both the Cambodian and Vietnamese forces. Their is a rather colorful "Little Johnie" joke about the differance between reality and 'ought to be.'

I have only been here for four months and I am loving it. I lived the previous eighteen years in Thailand so not many surprises. The one disappointment so far is the food. I was led to believe it is fantastic -- it most definitely isn't.

Slight correction. My previous post might lead one to believe that I was the one who wrestled the Cambodian Sailor and disarmed him. I was in the chow hall and was getting up to assist as nearer people actually disarmed the Cambodian Sailor.

"Thailand so not many surprises. The one disappointment so far is the food. I was led to believe it is fantastic -- it most definitely isn't."

Don't feel disappointed; after Thai food, (anywhere) else fails to match   

" One example of the challenges, was dealing with a Cambodian Sailor attempting murder suicide against a group of Vietnamese military personal  by hand grenade in our chow hall."

Also note; I had good friends in both the Cambodian and Vietnamese forces. Their is a rather colorful "Little Johnie" joke about the differance between reality and 'ought to be.

..so is there any chance of being enlightened by the joke.......???     

      ( You can be so cruel, Sam! )   

.so is there any chance of being enlightened by the joke.......???

      ( You can be so cruel, Sam! )

Yes. Appropriate jokes are available. But, they are the sort of humor that only Soldiers and those, like my wife, have actually seen the bodies and gore can understand the humor of.

When the shuttle exploded killing the crew and passenger school teacher, our joke was that she had "blue eyes. "One blew right and the other one blew left."

A Soldier's humor goes way down from there.

You're right there.   Can't use that one...     

Hmmmm?

As many people as there are l, there as many realities, each one precious, some haunting, all require personal attention. In kind, all memories are based upon individual realities.
This conversation is taking an odd turn from present to past. In collective realities we can all be brothers and sisters now. It just takes mutual understandings, compassion, loving kindness.

Mac68, You will likely find that the Vietnamese Soldier and the American Soldier tend to become brothers more quickly, more deeply and more lastingly than the equivalent civilian.

Ah, common grounds? Yes, but where we really desire to seek to understand, unsung lyrics remain to be written, unwritten song remains dormant.
I place no claim on any of this. As a seeker, the next horizon filled with light of day is so very devious sometimes. It brings many wonderful things.

I do not fault you for your misconceptions.
However, here you have observed:
"I think it would have been much more helpful & appropriate if you had cited some of these "common misconceptions & cliches about life in Vietnam.

1. Vietnam was under colonial rule for a very long time. Taken advantage of by Western civilization.
2. Google US president Eisenhower's farewell speech. This gives insight into how West messed with East, ... Most recently.

"I was/am  surprised at how 'behind the times' they are here,
...as were the 'then indigenous people of North America at one time.'

"how little most people have, how the Vietnamese abuse & mistreat their children, dogs, & cats compared to U.S. standards."

US STANDARDS?
Have you visited a homeless shelter, foster care kids, a county animal shelter in the states?
...and how human traffickers take advantage of people, could follow this statement above. Please understand all that the West takes for granted.

Mexico, Vietnam, and I believe the Philippines, are supported by foreign aid. Not by foreign governments, but by imigrees from western countries sending money to their home country to take care of their families.

US STANDARDS?

Where we warehouse our elderly?
Do you know the percentage of children living in poverty in the US?
The percentage of children living with single parents? Percentage of parents who are driving a Lexus to school to drop off kids who get free lunches? Children who show up at school hungry after a long night of adults arguing over who got the last line of meth?
Who live with grandparents or in foster care, or on the street  because the parents are either in jail or rehab?
What do you think the % of kids is in VN who are doing drugs in middle school in VN? versus the US?
As far as mistreating children goes, different culture different expectations of parents. Please also take the time to investigate how many families pool their dong to send their children beyond elementary school to places where they can get a higher education (high school) of which is paid  for out of their own pockets, by parents who make the = of maybe 100, 150, / mo. US. all the while we complain about our free but "unequal" educational opportunities.

  Those things stand out the most for me."

Me too.

Mac68,

I'm not sure if you are responding specifically to me or not. You bring up good and interesting points and are obviously a very caring person. But, it doesn't sound like you speak Vietnamese or have been deeply involved in Viet Nam for 47 years. Hint, my wife of 43 years is Vietnamese and I met her 46 years ago while she was a civilian employee of the US Military in Viet Nam.

Roughly 2/3's or 65% of my 72 year life has been deeply involved with Viet Nam. I actually started studying Viet Nam in the early 1960's before I joined the Military in 1965 as at least some of us "prospective cannon fodder for the Viet nam War" did. My first visit to  Viet Nam was in 1969, I am credited with 3 military tours in Viet Nam, returned to Viet Nam as a civilian in 1974, was evacuated from Sai Gon and in 1975 and made my first trip back to Viet Nam in 1995.

At 72, I am elderly and I am quite familiar with elder care in both Viet Nam and America. We had set up our house in Viet Nam to take care of my mother in her old age(Dad died suddenly in 1957). But, Mom was too frail to make the trip and died with my wife and I at her bedside 12 years ago.

As to American History, it is a vast subject. One area where I have some knowledge is the Cherokee Nation. While, I know relatively little about American Indians in general. I do know that American Indians are an incredibly diverse group of Tribes and Nations that prefer to be addressed as members of the their specific Tribe or Nation. Most of the Officers in the Cherokee National History Society(I am an elder member) prefer to be referred to as Cherokee  and consider all who are born in America as Native Americans and when forced to generalize, most use the term "American Indian."

None of this means that what I say is always correct. It does mean that I have been studying Viet Nam for more than 50 years. Also note, I rejoined the US Military reserves after returning to America and eventually retired from the military.