Tourist Visa etc

Hi Rose,

You can have your return flight scheduled for 180 days after your arrival flight...no problem.  Immigration in Bali is very used to these extendable 60 day tourist and sos bud visas, so if asked about it, simple reply that you will extending your 60 day visa four times while on Bali. 

Cheers!

Perfect!  Thanks for that!

By law, you have to show proof of a return flight.
My advise is to have the return flight date shown as limit to the prescribed visa limit date shown on passport.
Otherwise, you will fall to the discretion of the immigration officer. There are cases where an immigration officer, when not shown proof of a return flight, forces tourists to buy tickets at the airport at once.

One can easily show a date by showing a printed form that is issued according to your needs. It can be in the form of a booking.

My advise is to forum readers, and not specifically to you only.

The visa type number on the visa glued into the passport (tourist or social cultural) will be clear that it is extendable beyond 60 days…so the point that the initial visa duration is shown as 60 days is moot.

Enduringword, since you've never come into Bali on any of that type of visa, ever, or ever entered Bali as any sort of foreign tourist, you might consider letting others, who have, and who have done so often, answer these types of visa questions that come up on the forum from time to time.  This will really help to alleviate confusion.   

Hi thanks for the post.
I've just booked a return flight for 180 days.  I'll have to take my chances.  Wish me luck!!

Rose, you don't need any "luck" as immigration at Ngurah Rai is well used to this sort of thing.  And I guarantee that neither that previous poster, or anyone else can come up with a documented case where anyone coming in to Bali on a 60 day renewable visa has either been refused entry, or forced to buy another ticket if their current outbound ticket was within the maximum period of 180 days allowable by way of visa renewals.

It makes no sense to purchase an outbound ticket within the initial visa period of 60 days when your plan is to stay for up to 180 days. 

Cheers, Roy.

I have specifically stated that my advise is to forum readers and not to RoseFirth only,
Anyone is feel free to take it or leave it. I am clearing the confusion and you are muddying up the issue.

Visa policy is applied to the whole Indonesia.
Bali is not the whole Indonesia. In fact Bali forms only a small part of Indonesia. What happens to Bali often stays only in Bali, and is not representative of the whole Indonesia.
What happens in Jakarta is the barometer of the whole nation as the capital of Indonesia. Forum readers reading does not go to Bali only. In fact alot of provinces airports serve international arrivals nowadays.

You are likely never deal with enough bureaucrats in Indonesia. I doubt it.
You still think like a foreigner, orang asing. Yes you are, even though how much you want to admit otherwise. Because you never deal with Indonesian bureaucrats your whole life.
There are laws. And there are discretions. If anyone wants to fall under the discretions of a bureaucrat or pns here, feel free to do so.
It is the same principle when so many Aussie tourists come to Bali and drive scooters without a valid Indonesian license and helmet and felt surprised when police stop them to induce easy bribes or go to court.

I have often noticed tourists coming to Indonesia without any knowledge of a proof return flight and forced to induce a bribe at the airport or buy an instant cheap ticket to a neighboring country. It is all good to avoid, if one knows before flying to Indonesia. I have traveled to many countries around the world, only Indonesia enforces a return flight proof - as a way of easy prey to the unwary and thus often inducement bribes in the past.

Also, a visa is not a guarantee to enter Indonesia, and a visa extension while easy to get is not a guarantee as well. It is up to the Immigration officer discretion.

With the visa exemption, non renewable, I betcha alot of tourists might fall into the illusion that it could be renewed. In fact, Visa Exemption is clear about non renewable. And thus it is important to have return flight proof showing the correct dates according to the visa.

I know alot of people prior doing Visa runs to Thailand, and back again to Indonesia. Immigration officers are smarter now. They know when a visa been extended too many times. They have a discretion to refuse entry.

There are many things that doesnt make sense in Indonesia. If you want to bend it, and under the discretion of any officer, feel free to do so taking in the risks and full knowledge.

Finally, I want to illustrate an example. Indonesia bureaucrat is famous.

Every company needs a letter of residence to be made at Kelurahan (district office). While it is not compulsory, but many institutions need it nowadays.
The requirement to make it is around 10 to 14 document items to be produced at the local Kelurahan. Each Kelurahan has a discretion to requisite which documents - so you have each Kelurahan can be having different items - oh happy times, no uniformity and full of discretion.
Failing to produce it, which a lot are nonsensical items to submit, means the letter of residence cannot be produced. Gathering up the nonsensical items to be produced take significant amount of time and resources. Once submitted, it takes only an hour or so to finish and Kelurahan to produce the letter.
What a lot of bureaucratic nonsense in Indonesia to do every year for every single business/company.
It was once a fertile ground for corruption - now less so, but still whimsical. Only Indonesian can think like or tolerate Indonesian bureaucrats/pns.

enduringword wrote:

only Indonesia enforces a return flight proof - as a way of easy prey to the unwary and thus often inducement bribes in the past.

I've only entered Indonesia 3 times, but none of these entries saw anyone ask me for proof of a return flight, nor did I see anyone else asked for the same.
Every year sees me in the airport to meet my mum, so I see the queue of tourists and businessmen all waiting in line at immigration, but have only seen one person asked for proof of onward travel, and that was because they had a suspicious entry history into Indonesia, so the requirement for proof  was very much valid.

Other countries also a onwards travel/return ticket policy, notably Malaysia, but my many trips to that country have never seen a single person asked for proof they have a ticket to leave the country.

The same goes for attempts at bribes. My second entry was many years ago before immigration cleaned up, and a dude there was pretty clearly after cash (He didn't get it), but I have seen nothing of that nature  since then.
My experience of seeing only a few thousand travellers pass immigration is clearly limited, but I would tend to land on the side of no proof being normally asked for, and no bribes being paid to immigration officers.

Of course, you might well have proof of your suggestion and allegations, so perhaps you'd like to post it.

Fred, I agree Malaysia still tends to ask for proof of onward flights, even when I am boarding a flight in Tokyo destined to Malaysia the airline company recently made it difficult because three of us had MM2H and my young daughter didn't. Finally I had to sign an affidavit. Of course there was no problem when we arrived, especially since she was born in Malaysia and her passport allowed her three months stay anyway.

Indonesia used to require onward flight proof some years ago but seems like no longer required or no longer asked.

As for bribes, Fred you really need to stop suggesting that people post proof of bribery, because it just isn't going to happen. I've seen you suggest this time and time again with the idea that if a poster doesn't post proof then it hasn't happened. You already know nobody will give proof in this public forum. So please stop doing that. It proves absolutely nothing.

And you keep saying that you watch foreigners entering the country and passing through immigration and never see bribes being paid. Are you telling us that you stand beside the immigration desks and monitor all the foreigners entering Indonesia for hours and hours each day? There are millions of foreigners entering Indonesia at it's many many different ports of entry all over the country and I suggest you have watched not many of those entries. And what about the immigration departments in every town or city? How on earth could you possibly know what goes on there behind closed doors? You can only comment on what you have not seen at the immigration office where you go yourself, but please do not comment for all immigration offices around this country.

I do think corruption in immigration is being reduced thanks to this current government and the KPK. But since most of what we read in the papers and watch on the news here is about corruption and bribery especially in government departments, it seems there is still a very long way to go.

But, please stop making those statements that suggest that if a poster doesn't post proof in this forum then it doesn't happen. And what I find funny is that you are a foreigner telling an Indonesian (enduringword) what is not happening in his own country. Come on man, you might be able to persuade a small handful of naive foreigners here who have never visited Indonesia, but everyone living here knows exactly what is going on and all locals know it.

@Enduringword

“Bali is not the whole Indonesia. In fact Bali forms only a small part of Indonesia. What happens to Bali often stays only in Bali, and is not representative of the whole Indonesia.”

As for tourism and the number of foreign arrivals each year…Bali is the undisputed leader year after year.  Since this discussion has to do with visas for foreigners…something that you've never experienced yourself in Indonesia, I must say you are highly unqualified to even address the matter, unless of course you are a licensed visa agent acting on behalf of foreigners, and thus a professional in this field. 

“You are likely never deal with enough bureaucrats in Indonesia. I doubt it.”

That is about the most hilarious thing I've ever heard an Indonesian “say” to a foreigner.  You clearly have NO idea the degree of interaction we have with bureaucrats on ALL levels, and on a very regular basis…this being particularly so for any of us with businesses here.  Seriously, I did get quite a good laugh from that comment. 

And btw, just for the record…the requirement for what you call a “return ticket” for entry into Indonesia is not actually for a “return ticket” (which means a ticket back to the city of origin of the original arrival ticket), but rather for an outbound, out of country ticket which can be to anywhere. 

I'm happy to leave the credibility of various posts to the readership.  They can decide for themselves who to trust and to rely on for accurate information regarding this matter.   

@ Hansson,

The problem often encountered here is that “stories” are often posted that are in fact just that…stories, or what I prefer to call “urban legends.”  These stories are most always presented from just one side of the coin, and very often with exaggeration. 

Proof or some amount of detail is required IMHO, thus I agree wholeheartedly with Fred's position on this.  A poster who presents yet another “urban legend” or repeats one to be found on the internet has Private Messaging at their disposal…so they could confidently offer their “proof” in a confidential and discreet manner. 

From where I sit…if a person is not willing, or not able to back up their claims…then their stories and accusations are best left unsaid.  Otherwise this forum becomes nothing more than a bastion of rumor mongering and conjecture. 

On this thread, one poster is using corruption and the use of bribes to defend his otherwise indefensible opinion (it being totally inaccurate).  That's called a red herring or specious argument in my book.  What do you call it in your book? 

Cheers!

When it comes to bribery at customs/immigration, I've heard lots of stories on forums, but no one has ever been able to name anyone, post anything to show it's true, nor even mention the date it happened, save some stories from before the big clean up that might as well be as old as Borobudur temple.

As for 'foreigner', true, but one who keeps his eyes wide open as sees every little thing that's going on around him. Back before the clean up, you would see immigration on the prowl for marks in the airport, but all that has gone now, disappearing like a puff of smoke in the wind.

As for proof on a forum, is is reasonable to tell the world a group of people are thieves but refuse to say why?
I could just as easily claim Roy likes to cross dress and have fun with sheep, saying I can't post proof because it's a public forum and the photos were out of focus.s

If someone claims a man is a criminal, he must be willing to prove it.

what I prefer to call “urban legends.”

I'm not a diplomat, so I prefer to call them, "total crap".

That works fine with me too Fred!   

Cheers!

As a case in point. I've had long dealings with immigration Tangerang over the past few years, all with zero sign of anyone asking for undue cash, seeing anyone else   asked, or hearing a single complaint about bribery.
We're talking about almost weekly visits, not just a one off 20 minutes to pick up a document.
The only complaint I saw was a woman with a dodgy immigration record, and that was a moan about deportations, suggesting not a suggestion of any wrongdoing by immigration.

My firm belief is simple and clear, immigration is NOT corrupt.

But Fred, on the one hand you keep telling people to post their proof in this forum. But on the other hand you keep reminding them that Immigration regularly reads this Forum.

So any foreigner brave enough to mention something illegal that has happened to them would probably stand a chance at being deported.

Of course I agree with you that bribery rarely happens in airports at the immigration desk. But where you need to survey is the immigration departments in each town or city although you will not be allowed in to see what goes on behind closed doors.

As I think I mentioned some months ago, a local guy that I knew who runs a small post office branch was offered a job at an immigration department office, but he was asked to pay Rp100,000 if he wanted the job. He turned it down. But the room where he lives overlooks the immigration offices and he watches money exchanging hands on the second floor of the building.

And don't ask me for proof or names.   

Yes you keep saying that Fred. But you are a foreigner and they are Indonesians. You only see what they want you to see.

Anyway, it's pointless discussing this matter.

Hansson wrote:

But Fred, on the one hand you keep telling people to post their proof in this forum. But on the other hand you keep reminding them that Immigration regularly reads this Forum.

So any foreigner brave enough to mention something illegal that has happened to them would probably stand a chance at being deported....
And don't ask me for proof or names.   

I disagree.
I believe if you provide well laid out evidence, immigration will act against the corrupt officer.
A story about 'a man you know', who can't be named and you can't say where he is means nothing unless it's part of a Harry Potter book.

Yes, I've seen immigration officers reading this forum (and other expat forums), and people from the justice department doing the same, so your messages will probably get there first hand anyway.

Now, about Roy, that dress shop and the sheep.

Hansson wrote:

Yes you keep saying that Fred. But you are a foreigner and they are Indonesians. You only see what they want you to see.

Anyway, it's pointless discussing this matter.

See what they want me to see, like that happens as I wander around Indonesia. The trick is not your skin colour but your eyes and your attitude.
I've spend many hours in the back offices chatting to people, and I had my eyes wide open so I would have seen anything going on in there.
I saw nothing even slightly wrong.

It is pointless because all the offerings about corruption are scare stories with absolutely no evidence at all, and no posters saying they've actually had any problems, just they know a man, or heard about whatever.

Fred, you are not the only foreigner in Indonesia who goes around with their eyes open. Most of us who are not on a working permit choose to live here because we love this country. It means that it is unlikely that we walk around ignorant of everything that goes on here. We all speak with locals, I personally only speak with locals and I do not know any foreigners here in Indonesia full stop. I only mingle with locals.

And I am sure you saw nothing wrong. As I said, it goes on behind closed doors. Not in full view of everyone.

Any poster who has had experience can report it to the KPK but ONLY if they have managed to obtain proof, something quite difficult to do if you think about it. And I doubt that anyone who has experienced problems will want to post about it here.

But that does not mean it hasn't happened.

What we can both safely say is that you yourself have never seen anything of this nature happen before. So speak for yourself, but don't speak on behalf of every other foreigner in Indonesia.

PS: I know it doesn't happen in Bali Roy

“Now, about Roy, that dress shop and the sheep.”

And I thought I could trust you with a secret Fred!   

@Hansson

“So any foreigner brave enough to mention something illegal that has happened to them would probably stand a chance at being deported.”

That's assuming that each and every “story” is from someone who is an expat AND currently still living in Indonesia.  That's a HUGE assumption, especially when it comes to stories of corruption and bribery which very often are from visitors who are very likely back in their home country when they post…viz, no retribution to fear. 

“As I think I mentioned some months ago, a local guy that I knew who runs a small post office branch was offered a job at an immigration department office, but he was asked to pay Rp100,000 if he wanted the job. He turned it down.”

Only RP 100,000!  ROFLOL!  Baloney!  That story would ring as totally bogus in the mind of any Indonesian I know!  Government jobs cost much, much more than that!  But, that's the system here in Indonesia…and it only applies to Indonesians anyway, so your story has no legitimate bearing on this discussion.  You might also keep to mind that it's almost exclusively the government jobs here that include a pension for retirees.  In the minds of most Indonesians (including my vast family), the up front payment to secure these government jobs is considered as a pre-payment towards their eventual pension.  It can also be considered as a good incentive to perform well on the job, so one gets to retire.   

“Any poster who has had experience can report it to the KPK but ONLY if they have managed to obtain proof, something quite difficult to do if you think about it.”

That is not correct.

Any foreigner can report a case of corruption or attempted bribery to the KPK.  However, what is true is that their likelihood of taking action will, and should be, based on factual evidence.  Moreover, the KPK is reasonable.  If enough reports are filed on any one particular governmental official, even without factual evidence, their investigative arm will start paying attention to that official. 

Although I've mentioned this often enough before, let me make it clear again that I'm not coming from speculation, rose colored glasses, or a blind eye.  Rather I come from many years living with a prominent Balinese family whose members include a sitting representative of the DPR, (in office for the past 7 years), police officials, immigration, tax and customs officers.  I dare say, and without reservation, that my experience is hardly typical or normal for most expats in Indonesia, as well as many Indonesians.  Moreover, there have been plenty of past times where I have not agreed with Fred…but this is most certainly not one of those times.

I'm sorry Hansson, but like it or not, marriage to an Indonesian family, especially a family which has as many connections as mine, does in fact make a great deal of difference in terms of what you learn, and what you really know about Indonesia.  Friendships and acquaintances are one thing, but with Indonesian families, blood runs thick.   

There are too many going on and biased on this Expat forum.

I remembered on 2015, Ubudian and Fred disagreeing with a local Indonesian about BPJS on usage level on corporate. The local Indonesian know the inside and outside of BPJS because he applied it for everyone in the company. I saw his poster name as Kardus. And Mikewallace76 at that time defended Kardus, and reproached those non-indonesian not to attack a viewpoint of local Indonesian.
Then in 2016, Ubudian encouraged foreigners using BPJS in Bali.
What a roundabout turnback on how things changed. Go back to your own postings and eat your own words, admit how things have changed.

Personally I am laughing that both of you think know more than local Indonesians. No matter how much you spend in Indonesia, you will feel like an outsider. You were not born here. You were not even born in Asia. You still have preconceived notions about everything that is Western. It doesnt say whether it is bad or good. It is just you. You will never understand an Asian mind. By liking to argue in this forum, it shows how much Western you are.
While we, in Asia, we dont like to argue much or cause a loss of face to the others.
You will never understand this points. Because you are doing it and you still hold Western values.

Let me say again. Bali is a small part of Indonesia only. Bali is unique. Often when you visit Bali, you feel like stepping off a different place and not Indonesia. Bali is not representative of the whole Indonesia. The Majority of Balinese is Hindus. The majority of Indonesian is Muslim. I have seen very few Balinese living in Jakarta, or outside maybe Surabaya will be closest.

It is a waste of time talking and convincing to Fred and Ubudian about it. Both of you are on the same side. In contrast, Hansson and I think alike.
We will, on both sides agree to disagree.

End of discussion.

Cases of Corruption?  Lack of Evidence?  Haha....
We can see big news every week in major newspaper in local Indonesian.
The everyday small ones barely goes on radar.

Every week, there is someone caught by KPK or investigated by another body. Big fish include:
- Once Head of DPR, Setya Novanto investigated and then resigned
- Head of Commision D on DPRD DKI Jakarta, Sanusi, arrested
- Bupati Mayor of Subang, arrested
- a Judiciary staff of Jawa Barat, arrested

etc etc...

Indonesia is ranked highest in corruption parameter in the world.
If you don't see it in your eyes or refuse to believe in front, you wont see it then.
It will take a generation and time to eliminate or reduce it. The delusion is thinking otherwise.

enduringword wrote:

T

Personally I am laughing that both of you think know more than local Indonesians. No matter how much you spend in Indonesia, you will feel like an outsider. You were not born here. You were not even born in Asia. You still have preconceived notions about everything that is Western. It doesnt say whether it is bad or good. It is just you. You will never understand an Asian mind. By liking to argue in this forum, it shows how much Western you are. .

When arguments fail, turn to bigotry and racism.

I, as has Roy, make great efforts to understand the local attitudes, taken great steps to understanding how our friends and neighbours live, and very much live as Indonesians do, making no effort to hunt out other bules because we prefer to live in a given way.
I can't speak for Roy on this one, but my many walks are as much to meet new people and learn about Indonesia as they are photography sessions. That's very much why I generally ignore tourist areas in favour of rubbish dumps.
I have dined with the rich and powerful in Indonesia, but also chatted to the poorest members of our society, so I think I have a better than average idea of how our people live, and probably a lot better understanding than a lot of Indonesians, mostly because they only see one side of the coin, not everything as I do.

- Once Head of DPR, Setya Novanto investigated and then resigned
- Head of Commision D on DPRD DKI Jakarta, Sanusi, arrested
- Bupati Mayor of Subang, arrested
- a Judiciary staff of Jawa Barat, arrested

Immigration, the department in question, seem to be missing from that list.

Ubudian wrote:

“As I think I mentioned some months ago, a local guy that I knew who runs a small post office branch was offered a job at an immigration department office, but he was asked to pay Rp100,000 if he wanted the job. He turned it down.”

That was meant to say Rp100 million, excuse my mistake....

Ubudian wrote:

“Any poster who has had experience can report it to the KPK but ONLY if they have managed to obtain proof, something quite difficult to do if you think about it.”

That is not correct.

Any foreigner can report a case of corruption or attempted bribery to the KPK.  However, what is true is that their likelihood of taking action will, and should be, based on factual evidence.  Moreover, the KPK is reasonable.  If enough reports are filed on any one particular governmental official, even without factual evidence, their investigative arm will start paying attention to that official.

What about if someone tried to get a bribe and only one person reported them? Will this backfire on the victim? I mean you say if lots of others report them then no worries. But what if many others haven't. Then I guess that person might get deported. Right Roy?

Ubudian wrote:

I'm sorry Hansson, but like it or not, marriage to an Indonesian family, especially a family which has as many connections as mine, does in fact make a great deal of difference in terms of what you learn, and what you really know about Indonesia.  Friendships and acquaintances are one thing, but with Indonesian families, blood runs thick.   

You are not the only person who is married into an Indonesian family with connections. Probably I trump you on that one Roy. And as I said, earlier, we are not talking about bribery in Bali and I specifically mentioned that there isn't much of it going on there. Java and other areas are a different kettle of fish.

Bottom line is Fred and Roy, just because you haven't seen it happen in front of your eyes, doesn't mean it is not happening. Read the news or watch it on TV, and then tell me that corruption is a thing of the past. It's happening everyday, all around us, in almost every department. And you are telling Indonesians that immigration is clean because you have never seen it happen first hand? Duh!!!

Enduringword, I think you should have added the Minister of Religion who I believe was also in the papers some months ago.

Immigration is different Fred. In some departments money is paid to grease the palms of high level government employees. In some the senior people take funds from the coffers. In some it's all about kickbacks, and in some powerful governors or mayors give major contracts to their own families. Then there are foreigners who are targeted and made to feel that unless they pay some money their application will be rejected, and therefore they are scared to say anything and unlikely to report it to the KPK.

Anyway guys, believe what you want.

Fred,
You dont have to twist the words. There is nothing what I meant as bigotry or racism. While plenty of what you allowed on your biased radar?

If you cannot acknowledge there is difference in Asian values and Western values, you need to take further culture lessons.
In fact, it is ridiculous if you think everyone is the same, applying the same brush and doesnt need Adaptation.

It is widely acknowledged that Asian values are different than Western values. Dont need to twist it into your agenda of disagreeing with me here into something else.
In Asia, you shamed yourself only by adopting Western prejudices and not understanding Asian values. However, as one not knowing. It is often accepted and excused. That is why as foreigners, there are cultural studies.

I knew a guy who wanted to be a policeman in Toytown, but big ears  asked him for a 50 quid bribe in order to get the job.
Noddy was very angry.
I've named names, so that's the end of my visa for Toytown.

At the end of the day, no one actually knows a tourist or expat that's been ripped off since immigration cleaned up, and no one can so much as name a port of entry where any of these stories have happened.
In other words, there is nothing to say the OP has the slightest thing to worry about.
Why bother spreading scare stories?

Fred, forget about port of entries. Those have pretty much cleaned up except perhaps a few of the more remote places, but I really couldn't comment on that. People cannot easily be ripped off when passing through immigration at an airport anymore. Nobody is arguing with that and that is not really what we are talking about.

This is about people extending their visa or applying for Kitap or Kitas and being told that there is a problem and that if they pay a certain amount of money then there will not be any delay or being told to provide a document that is impossible to get and totally irrelevant but that paying a fine would mean there is no need to provide that document. Or being told that through an error in the system it shows that you overstayed and that even though they know it is a mistake because the system in Jakarta also had the same problem, and that it has happened to a lot of foreigners, it is going to take a very long time to sort out, but that if you pay the fine of Rp3 million then there will be no delay. But if you do not pay then your deadline to apply the Kitas will expire and you will need to start allover again.

You've said yourself in the past that you have never had problems, except in the beginning when someone tried it on with you. But after that never a single problem. Well Fred, if that's the case can you explain what the officer tried on with you and how much money he wanted and how he asked for it and which department did it happen? Let's have some proof, or we have to assume you are just making things up. Did you record the conversation with him? Take some photos of him? Report him to the authorities?

Fred, you're obviously not going to persuade Enduringword or myself that you are anything like an authority on the subject so just give over. We are not naive newby expats.

Guys can we stop getting personal here. Flaring tempers cause nothing except insults and deleted posts. And we are getting very far away from the OP's original question. So come on guys, let's get back to the original topic.

@ Hansson

“What about if someone tried to get a bribe and only one person reported them? Will this backfire on the victim? I mean you say if lots of others report them then no worries. But what if many others haven't. Then I guess that person might get deported. Right Roy?”

Good grief, where on earth is this paranoia coming from?  Do you know of ANY cases where a foreigner making a complaint/report to the KPK has been deported?  What is the basis for your thinking? 

Let's stop wasting time playing “what if” games and stick to factual and documented cases.  Seriously, you are sounding less and less as a person with many years of experience living in Indonesia, and more and more like a newly arrived expat rookie.

“You are not the only person who is married into an Indonesian family with connections. Probably I trump you on that one Roy.”

I highly doubt that…seriously, I highly doubt that.  My main reason for saying that is your constant elocution which reveals so much about how little you really know and understand about this country, and in particular, Bali. 

Another reason for my saying that is the fact that you'd only need to ask around Ubud about me or my family, and you'd be straightened out very quickly.  I'm sorry, but you aren't in my league…period.  Sorry to pull a real TRUMP on you, but you asked for it.

Hansson wrote:

Fred, forget about port of entries. Those have pretty much cleaned up except perhaps a few of the more remote places, but I really couldn't comment on that. People cannot easily be ripped off when passing through immigration at an airport anymore. Nobody is arguing with that and that is not really what we are talking about.

Actually, that's exactly what the thread is about. I'm glad you've finally admitted there is nothing for the OP to worry about.

Hansson wrote:

This

The rest is pointless as the issue is the potential for the OP being forced to bribe an officer at the airport, and you've now admitted that's exceptionally unlikely.

Wow... Ubudian...
By your views, everyone here is an ethnic.   An everyone is condemned to have an ethnic view.

  I wonder, so by your theory you have a certain ethnic view too.  That hardly represents the whole Indonesia. Poor you...
Thank you for making that bigotry ethnic comment.

@ Hansson

One thing that really bothers me about many of your arguments is your use of red herrings…things unrelated or not truly associated to the discussion. 

For instance, this tidbit: 

“This is about people extending their visa or applying for Kitap or Kitas and being told that there is a problem and that if they pay a certain amount of money then there will not be any delay or being told to provide a document that is impossible to get and totally irrelevant…”

What you describe is NOT the result of Immigration, but rather it is most always the often less than ethical tactics taken by visa agents.

How many KITAS visas and work permits do you personally file for each month…and what is the extent of your experience with this?   

It isn't immigration folks who are profiting from this “smoke and mirrors” rather it is the lack of business ethics employed by various visa agents.

You should damn well know that, and yes, it angers me that you write that BS with Immigration personnel as being to blame.

And Fred,
My original comment was stated not for the OP only. I have already repeatedly stated that.

The forum readers are not OP only. And this is Visa section, and not Bali section, thus applying to the whole Indonesia.
It is not a scare. It is more of a caveat, knowledge is power.
Readers can choose the freedom to accept or reject any advices given on the forum.
And I have always believe that is the purpose of the forum. Without drowning the other voices/opinions.
By the way, how difficult it is to show booking on a printed form. Anyone can edit a booking form.

You as a long term moderator encourages this behaviour of Ubudian long term of provoking arguments,  is really beyond words and cannot be said thoroughly impartial. For this to happen many times.