Moving to Ecuador from Canada

AmberFenton wrote:

nobody asked me for a marriage licence or a divorce certificate, or a birth certificate.

On my visa application, I listed my status as 'widower'. Because I did that, when applying for my cedula (NOT for my visa), I had to supply a notarized copy of my wife's death certificate.

My lawyer kicked himself a bit over this, saying that if he had simply entered my status as 'single', I wouldn't have needed the additional documentation.

AmberFenton wrote:

nobody asked me for a marriage licence or a divorce certificate, or a birth certificate.

The reason they never asked you for this information is that none of the documents you gave them said anything about you being married/divorced before and no one told them that you had been married/divorced before.

As to the Birth Certificate it is not required to obtain your Visa but is required to obtain something called a Certificado de Empardonimiento which is required to obtain your Cedula.

AmberFenton wrote:

However, there was a list requiring more than 8 different documents, letters and certificates. That list seems to change every few months.

There are not 8 different documents. The only ones you need for a pension visa are as follows:

1)  Application for the Visa
2)  A letter stating that you wish to be granted a Pensioners Visa
3)  Marriage/Divorce certificates (if required)
4)  Criminal Record Check (not older than 180 days)
5)  Proof of $800 pension (plus $100 extra dollars for each dependent)
6)  Movimiento Migratorios (specifies your comings and goings to/from Ecuador)

These are the only documents that are required whether from Canada or any other country (as far as I know). However, you also need the following which are not documents:

7)  Color copies of your Passport
8)  Passport photos

AmberFenton wrote:

They gave me the one for Americans, but I found out, that Canadians should not be given the same list, since the requirements are different for us.

The requirements are the same with the exception that in the US it is proof of Social Security (instead of CPP/OAS) that is required. As well, US documents must be apostilled. There is no such process in Canada. Instead we get our documents "authenticated" by DFAIT or a local authentication service that is part of the provincial government.

AmberFenton wrote:

The Police Clearance had to be from the RCMP, not just the local Police Station. It had to be very recent.

It has to be no older than 180 days from when you make your Visa application. This document does not have to be notarized nor authenticated (at least in Canada). But it does have to be stamped by your local Ecuadorian Consulate.

AmberFenton wrote:

Then a Police Clearance from here, which could not be older than 3 weeks.

This is not a police clearance. It is a check of your comings and goings from Ecuador. It is called a "Movimiento Migratorios".

Also make note:  When they issue this document they may not include your full name on this document as it appears in your passport. Make darn sure that it is spelled exactly as it appears in your passport despite what they might tell you. If they are not exact they will decline your Visa application at the Ministerio de Immigracion. This very situation resulted in me making a return trip and paying twice to get the same document. My Spanish was not good enough to argue the point that they made a mistake and that it should not cost me a second time.

AmberFenton wrote:

All this information was given to me, when I showed up at the Ministerio with a lawyer, who spoke English and who had a friend in that place.

There is absolutely no need to use a lawyer or a facilitator and there is no need to have a representative who speaks English. There are people in the Ministerio that speak English. I had no problems.

AmberFenton wrote:

At that time, I only had 2 weeks left on my extended visiting visa [6 mos.]

The Visa application can be done on a regular 90 day visa. There is no necessity to obtain a 6 month visa. It is just a waste of money.

You could even wait until the last week of your 90 day visa to apply because once your application is accepted your 90 day visa is no longer in effect. You can continue to stay in Ecuador until you receive notification that your Visa application has either been accepted or rejected. This notification is done by email.

I have heard of someone who either missed the email they sent or did not receive one. So, if you have not received an email within 3 weeks (despite the time they say you have to wait), contact them and ask if your Visa has been approved yet.

AmberFenton wrote:

To have everything done exactly how they wanted it done at the Ministerio, I would have never been able to get it right, doing it all in Toronto. The Ecuadorian Consulate in Toronto gave me nothing but misinformation, unfortunately.

Misinformation from an Ecuadorian Consulate in another country is sometimes the case. However, and I have never done this, but I hear that it is possible to acquire a Pensioner's Visa while still in Canada through the Ecuadorian Consulate.

It is certainly possible to do this using an Ecuadorian-based facilitator. But that would cost you roughly $600 in  facilitator fees. This fee does not include the cost of your Visa, notary costs, etc. If you use a lawyer it will be even more expensive. You also have to grant the facilitator (or lawyer) a limited power of attorney for them to act on your behalf here in Ecuador.

There have been Canadian expats who claimed to have done it this way. Whether this has been done in the US or in other countries I do not know.

If you are applying for a Pensioner's Visa it is better to do this while you are still in Canada (or possibly the US or other country) because if your documentation is not correct and you have to get changes made it will be much more difficult and costly to make those changes once you are in Ecuador.

AmberFenton wrote:

I should have had a lawyer right away, and save myself an awful lot of hassle.

If you are a disorganized person or you have a situation that is more complicated than most then it is advisable to hire someone to do it for you.

I applied for an Investment Visa and had the whole process completed within roughly 1.5 months (including acquiring my Cedula). I could have it all done sooner except that my Cedula had to wait until I had returned from vacationing in the Galapagos. And I did not use a facilitator nor a lawyer and my Spanish is not that great. I never had to use much Spanish anyway. I used what Spanish I could muster out of courtesy. I did have to return a few times because I did not have a particular document quite right.

One last bit of advice:  If you are married and you apply for one Visa with a dependent (your spouse) you could run into problems later if the person whose name the Visa is in dies.

Not only will the surviving dependent need to apply for a Visa to stay in the country but you will have to return to your country of origin and acquire an up-to-date set of documents that are required for the Visa application.

It would be easiest to acquire a separate Visa for each person. This will cost more money but will save you headaches later on. The additional cost would be for the extra Visa ($320 if memory serves me).

MikeGB wrote:

There is absolutely no need to use a lawyer or a facilitator and there is no need to have a representative who speaks English. There are people in the Ministerio that speak English....

AmberFenton wrote:

I should have had a lawyer right away, and save myself an awful lot of hassle.

If you are a disorganized person or you have a situation that is more complicated than most then it is advisable to hire someone to do it for you.

Mike's detailed analysis and rebuttals re the visa issues are a great service to expat-blog readers.

His brilliant point-by-point post, however, shows that there are so many moving parts to the whole thing that breakdowns along the way in this visa process are likely if not inevitable.

Not every incoming Expat is up to navigating these waters with Ecuadorian "migracion" official(s) regardless whether they speak English.  The pitfalls and myriad details are more than many Expats will find palatable to deal with at a time when they have so many other things going on in establishing a new life in a new country.

I am convinced I made the right decision in hiring an attorney well-versed in visa-related procedures.  The peace of mind that provided was priceless, especially when problems did arise along the way. 

It's not that I didn't have the language skills or organisation to do it on my own.  It was a matter of keeping it together mentally and emotionally during an already stressful time by letting someone else help me with "the heavy lifting."

cccmedia wrote:

Not every incoming Expat is up to navigating these waters with Ecuadorian "migracion" official(s) regardless whether they speak English.  The pitfalls and myriad details are more than many Expats will find palatable to deal with at a time when they have so many other things going on in establishing a new life in a new country.

While I agree with you regarding the stress and that some may not prefer to do the leg-work themselves, I still think the process is not that bad and can be managed by most if they are willing to try. You just have to be organized.

As to pitfalls and myriad details: You make it sound as though it is really bad. It depends on the individual situation. Mine was very simple. I have never been married and have no dependents. That makes things considerably easier.

I can cite another situation of a friend who is Ecuadorian by birth and his Ecuadorian documents say he was born 10 years before he actually was born. He had been living in Canada from an early age. So when he went to apply for a new Cedula things became very complicated. However, he was able to work around the problem fairly easily.

So, there are extenuating circumstances that might require a lawyer, but some do not.

My objective is to provide as much information as possible so as to allow others to make as an informed decision as possible.

If you've got lots of money to burn then using a lawyer or facilitator might be the way to go. I was willing to try myself to start with as I knew my situation was the least complicated as it could be. Then if it turned out that things were more complicated than I was expecting I could always hire someone later. Fortunately, I did not have to and as a result I saved myself a lot of money.

@cccmedia:  thank you so much for explaining, how it can be for some of us. Not all of us have the same experiences. My situation might have been a tad "unique" and perhaps it looked very "unorganized" to some other people, but we all have had to deal with the officials in the Ministerio at one time or another. For some inexplicable reason, they seemed to hate me right off the bat, and seemed to make it almost a game, to see how many times I would come back - yet with another document they requested. At the very end, when I finally had all documents accepted by the Ministerio, because I was accompanied by a friend of a friend [the lawyer], who had a lady friend in the place, I was told, that still another document was required from the Ecuadorian Consulate in Toronto, to verify again, for the third time, that I was receiving my pension from Canada.   There were three windows for these specific visas, for foreign peeps, and unluckily, I seemed to always end up at the same window - 7 times in 4 mos.  That person only spoke Spanish and kept refusing me again and again. I met two peeps in the whole place, who spoke some English.  At one point I was told that all documents were in order, to just have them translated and notarized and everything would be alright.   I did that, and again I was refused, because something else was missing.  I had authorized my son to handle everything for me in Toronto, and he was getting a tad weary of it all as well.  I have spent most of my savings now, to start my life over. I am not regretting my decision, although it might have been a tad hasty. Now that I know so much more, than what I knew when I first came here, I can imagine, how somebody else would think I was not organized and perhaps crazy to do what I did.  It was just such a different situation in my life, which did not give me a chance to really get a grip.  I am happy here, and that is all that matters to me now.  Thanks again for your contribution to this debate.

@MikeGB -

I found your previous posts literate, helpful, and detailed.

My only comment would be that you addressed investor's residency visas. And yes, I realize that nearly all of Ecuador's permanent residency visas have all of the same document requirements constricted within the same time frames.

But I would suggest there are internal bureaucratic procedures in the Ecuador immigration process that favor the investor visa much over a pensioner's visa. First thing is that Ecuador gets your $25,000 investment up front and on the spot. And keeps it - charging the visa holder a 5% tax to remove their investment from the country. No a bad deal for sure, but a skim nonetheless.

I would also suggest based upon reading in various places - that acquiring a pensioner's visa with all the same documentation - can often be stymied within the bureaucratic system because the $800+ a month from the potential pensioner takes a much longer time to capitalize than just dumping $25,000 into their economy in one transaction.

Therefore it is my thought that Ecuador bureaucracy is much more accommodating to the 'investor' than to the applicant pensioner.

So I have come to the conclusion that it is easier, faster, and more expedient to apply for the investors visa in Ecuador. My problem is that I'm not ready to hand them $25,000 of my money upfront, either in cash investment or real estate speculation.

So that leaves me on the slow and unsteady milk train to visa nirvana, riding our $800+ per month on the south American bureaucratic backroads.

Just some thoughts. 

gardener1 wrote:

there are internal bureaucratic procedures in the Ecuador immigration process that favor the investor visa...dumping $25,000 into their economy in one transaction....

So that leaves me on the slow and unsteady milk train to visa nirvana, riding our $800+ per month on the South American bureaucratic backroads.

At least you're going with more poetic and picturesque visa route ("el tren de leche").

I suspect that bureaucrats have been around since the beginning of time. Someone always wants the rains to your buggy in their hands. Everyone has them, they are like belly buttons.

Tom

Gardener1:  I had not thought of the Investment Visa giving me an advantage over the bureaucracy, but that makes sense.

However, I would still try doing a Visa on my own to try and save the money. And then failing that, hire someone.

Hi there looking at moving somewhere nice and enjoy life!

Hey there , Ralph!
I moved here from Canada a year and a half ago. I enjoy it here and have been back twice to Calgary--only for business reasons. Do your homework--make a decision based on facts not impressions of others. Do come for a visit first. On that Note--we have opened a Bed and Breakfast welcoming Canadians of course as well as guests from other countries AND we are PET FRIENDLY!!!

Barbara, can you tell me where & what the name of your B&B is? Thanks!

Sure! MY Bed and Breakfast is posted as Tulip's Bed and Breakfast and for tomorrow's post--it will be referred to as a new Bed and Breakfast welcoming Canadians. All the contact info will be there. Brochures--business cards and photos are available as well. I will be at the Golden Girls luncheon tomorrow here in Cuenca. Let me know if you have any further questions. Smiles.

Please send address, I have rented a car and will be moving a bit, but will stop for a day or so!
Thanks Ralph

The truth I learned is to do it yourself--not the so called experts here. They are expert for a high price and deliver questionable service. Use Visa Angels if you need hand holding--they charge nada.

Q    What are Visa Angels?

And, the Golden Girls?

I don't see the meet ups listed here?

  How does one know the upcoming events.

Thnx. Allayne, still in states, but want to socialize when I arrive!

Allayne wrote:

   What are Visa Angels?

And, the Golden Girls?

The Visa Angels of Cuenca is a volunteer-group that assists Expats in obtaining residency visas without attorney or facilitator paid-assistance.

Contact them at visaangels(at)gmail.com ...

This forum also has a "Visa Angels of Cuenca" thread at this link...

    https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=432139


The Golden Girls is another Cuenca group that has meetups and a webpage:

    www.goldengirlincuenca.com

  -- cccmedia in Quito

Allayne wrote:

I don't see the meet ups listed here?

How does one know the upcoming events.

....still in states, but want to socialize when I arrive!

Here are website links for Cuenca events....

-- www.gringopost.com

-- www.tribelr.com (The Gringo Tree link)

-- www.cuencahighlife.com

The Golden Girls are an organization especially for Newcomers to Cuenca. They hold a luncheon once a year  and welcome newcomers. It is headed by Christine Collins.
Visa Angels---is a wise alternative to other high profile services for new expats wanting to become residents here. No charge and they guide you through the process. I did it myself for the most part as I speak enough Espanol to do it on my own. Be careful whose services you use--if they are charging high prices--do an immediate left turn--there are lots of 'helper' types out there--who speak both languages but they charge. So---Visa Angels is a good bet.
****
Having been through a lot over the past year and a half --learning the ropes so to speak--I believe we offer a service of value to save you some of the 'grief'. Anyhow--it's there for your consideration. I am not here to make money---I am here to help.

Do you know of any similar groups, available in Esmeraldas helping newcomers?
I'm still enquiring for "brokers" willing to help with Customs paperwork in the Port of  Esmeraldas.
I'm sending a 20" container with my belongings including a car.
All items pre-approved/ registered by the consulate of Ecuador in Toronto. 
I already have a place in Tonsupa - Esmeraldas.

Honestly, I don't but put it out there on this blog for help in that location. People are super friendly and supportive within this group.

I would advise to leave Ecuador and return to Canada. In this age you don't want have stressful live. At one point I was looking to Ecuador, but I decided not to proceed to country where I will have to struggle with unfriendly bureaucracy and have stress all the time. Looks like the Ecuadorian government employees does not appreciate the business and hard currency you trying bring to Ecuador. There are other countries in Latin America with less hassle and cheaper, such as Colombia, Uruguay and Nicaragua

Folks,

How about a third option - professional visa.  Before leaving Canada I made certain that all my documents were in order, liaising continually with the Consulate/Embassy in Ottawa, but at the time I was living in Ottawa so it was easy.  I could have opted for the investor visa, and was afraid of the difficulty of proving my Pensioners visa option, also did not think that the dollar exchange would give me enough to qualify.  I got papers from both my former universities for both degrees and it was very helpful (I included transcript for the last degree).  If there is ever a problem, the Ecuadorian govt now has my degrees in the computer system and I have used this for other times when I had to prove something or could not remember it. (I also had all my docs professionally translated and certified by DFAIT.  I included my husband's death certificate, which I got apostilled from New Mexico, and the birth certificate, just in case.)

HelenP.

Sorry, this replies to a comment further up in this page regarding a Canadian person  criminal background check. Just so you know, DFAIT will not certify your provincial background check unless it has first been notarized.
HelenP

Hellen,
This not about what kind of resident visa you apply, rather who is the case worker(s) working on your visa. All depends on person(s), one person can make easy and close eye for some minor glitch, another can make very hard/difficult. This is every where Canada or USA all the same. Government employees not as friendly as use to be going years back. This days governments is working for itself not for the people

pol_can wrote:

I would advise to leave Ecuador and return to Canada. In this age you don't want have stressful live. At one point I was looking to Ecuador, but I decided not to proceed to country where I will have to struggle with unfriendly bureaucracy and have stress all the time. Looks like the Ecuadorian government employees does not appreciate the business and hard currency you trying bring to Ecuador. There are other countries in Latin America with less hassle and cheaper, such as Colombia, Uruguay and Nicaragua

I am utterly astonished by your post, are you actually advising someone to leave Ecuador without you having lived here? I live in Ecuador and my experience is nothing like you are claiming. Again I actually live in Ecuador. The time consuming aspect of the visa process was not in Ecuador. It was acquiring the documents beforehand. Once in Ecuador it was smooth sailing, you get your certificate of movement, visit immigration a couple of times, and simply wait for an email, that's all it is you simply have to wait. Simple as that and the people are exceptionally friendly well to me at least, but I'm empathetic and willing to learn.
   
So I cannot relate to your comment about,“have stress all the time.”  Ecuador is practically stress-free. If one has a reasonable budget it is a wonderful destination. Ecuador in a word has made me alive again. I go out every single day with a routine that involves many activities. On the weekends mountain biking or hiking to the numerous scenic spots around the capital is effortless and practically free if one puts in the time. The beaches are also nearby, and are wonderful for weekend getaways. We also have hot springs to sooth a body and to just relax with your spouse or friends, also nearby. What I do is no different than what many Ecuadorians do.

Ecuador is a happy country with friendly people and one that mother nature has blessed with scenic beauty and perfect climates. After living here with perfect weather I can never ever live in the muggy heat or cold again as it impacts my quality of life. How can someone hike in the bitter cold or muggy heat? Or mountain bike? Or even relax at a café alfresco? Or enjoy parks? Or walk or jog? 

But's it's not for everyone, and if some are expecting a good life for $1000, that's not going to happen in the capital at least.

The key as I mentioned on another thread is to ask oneself two questions:

1. What kind of life do I want in Ecuador?
2. How do I go about achieving that life?

I agree. My life is pretty wonderful here.  Sometimes I take it so for granted that I forget how lucky we are, the folks who could move to Ecuador.
HelenP

Mike.  Please bear in mind the exchange rate which has been hovering around $1.40CAD for $1.00USD.  This what my bank charges me to buy USD.  I know 3 Canadians that have left Ecuador because of this extra cost.

For me, life here in Ecuador is worth the extra cost of the lousy Cdn dollar exchange rate, which presently is in the toilet, so to speak.  I just grin and bear it.  Life is too good here, I have everything that I want on a modest income, it is less than that mentioned in your post for sure!  Once I got past buying my land, building my house and building my ceramics studio, etc., life is just a bowl of strawberries (I don't like cherries.)  Imagine coming out onto your front terrace to bask in the morning sunshine while enjoying your breakfast.   All meals can be eaten outside.   A lot of Ecuadorians have their kithchen tables , where the family eats, outside if it is a big family .  I am speaking of campesinos, or country people.  Maybe you are a city mouse, not a country mouse. (This is from a memorable children's book I used to read to my son.)

It depends on what kind of lifestyle you are seeking.  If you want something lavish, and do not have the money to do it, you might be unhappy.  If your aspirations are more modest, you can be in paradise.  A lot depends on your attitude.

Another note:  I have found that gringos usually bring their attitudes and problems with them to Ecuador and do not dump them at the border.  If you are not generally an optimistic person, you will likely remain the same here.  Expect changes, welcome them.  Life is good!

HelenP

Helen.  I am doing the same as you about the exchange rate.  Grin and bear it or go home.  I was merely trying to alert newbies to the hidden cost of it.
    I also have found that the pros far outweigh the cons when it come to Ecuador.  There is so much right about this country that the few faults can easily be dealt with.

Your post basically reads “I love Ecuador”, and I think you and expats similar to you are lucky. We've read too often that 2/3 of expats leave Ecuador after 3 years. We can assume that after more time, more leave, and ultimately a small percentage remain.

This is a reality whether it's Ecuador or any other country. Expats move on because of whatever reasons including costs, weather, yes weather, and on this forum alone, expats have explicitly stated they're leaving X country because of weather.

It's an expat thing, a life of nomads for many, because they are never happy with where they are and move on. It's much easier when a person is young or younger, but it's a wonderful feeling to find a place that is just right

Edit: My post was originally a response for HelenPivoine post, I forgot to use the quote feature. But just as appropriately it a response to stick1947.

You are correct in that I love Ecuador.  I found a great woman and a wonderful life here but if things ever change I will simply pack and leave without all the hype that the gringos put on these things about all that is wrong with X country.
    My thinking is love it or leave it but don't whine about it.  Almost every gringo or Canadian that I have met in the 3 years that I have been here has left to go back home or to another country.  There is always a fresh crop coming in looking for Paradise for $1000 a month.

Nice perspective. And really what's wrong with this country? That everyone has health insurance so that tax payers don't have to pay for deadbeat foreigners who get sick here and the system has to care for them. Or "tourists", who are here half a year or more and who exploit the system as well.

This country is a winner by every definition. It is very humane. I am mightily impressed with the progress that this country is making.

One of the reasons I left this site a long time ago is becuase it really offers nothing very helpful
---the people who have the courage to change their lives because they know there is something more and they want to live it are often confused by the messages here. There is nothing for example to support such a statement that 2 out of 3 are leaving all the time.
Nope-not so!l

Barbara Suderman wrote:

One of the reasons I left this site a long time ago is becuase it really offers nothing very helpful
---the people who have the courage to change their lives because they know there is something more and they want to live it are often confused by the messages here. There is nothing for example to support such a statement that 2 out of 3 are leaving all the time.
Nope-not so!l

This website offers a wealth of help to people as It provides incredible amount of free information on immigration, visas, pets, shopping, restaurants, healthcare, real estate, cost of living, telecommunications, safety, and so many other things that are integrals to expats and tourists. So I have no idea what you are talking about. The Information here is often up-to-date and second to none to any other source on the internet.

As for the 2/3, I absolutely agree it is not substantiated but it's apparent in many ways that expats move on. I know this personally, there are testaments of other expats who live here, the expat populations in the cities are not growing considerably considering that new foreigners are moving in all the time and what can we conclude from this?

I moved here because of the weather.   Then everyone told me that, because of global climate change, the climate here has been about 5 degrees hotter than ever before, for the last two years.  But it is my home, despite all my ties to Canada, and I embrace it even in lousy weather like giant rains.

I am retired from one of my professions but remain busy with the other one.
HelenP.

I don't want to argue the point---the opinion I hold is mine and mine alone--although one wonders. My experience is speculation is just that---I do hold the position though that people come and go because some of them--some--are unprepared physically,emotionally (hand holding )and linguistically. My wife and I --my husband and I --like it is a compound word--God help them if one of them has a heart attack.
I heard one person say quite candidly--I came here with my hsband because he promised to look after me. '

I respect your opinion and believe that arguments are good provided they are constructive. And I absolutely agree that some people are not physically, mentally and linguistically ready for the challenges of living here.

But there is also culpability by an industry, a gringo industry that profits but enticing people to move to Ecuador, Panama, Colombia, etc. An industry that is absolutely relentless in marketing an image of paradise by way of articles, posts, videos, and images. People fall for that, innocent people looking for change fall for that.

I think some leave because they eventually realize it was all a lie.

The spousal situation or hand holding I think is positive as long as both are on the same page and both are committed to living in Ecuador. Otherwise it can be a nightmare, so definitely that's a reason why some people leave.

My point about the hand-holding is that people seem to thing thye need another innorder to live here and while it is nice in fact to have that-- the huddling together that gringos do and that couples do--is not, in my view, how to approach a new situation such as this. Expats do infact have every opportunity to come for explorator visits--which is what my present guests are doing for their second time. A wise move, I think on their part.
For me, the people here from 'abroad' are challenging to say the least. Some are 'together' as in their thinking and realistic expectations while others are 'way out there'. Leavign one to wonder --'waht were they thinking"? i refer to people who have mobility problems for example who have a hard time going up and down the stairs--come here and expect not to fall on uneven sidewalks --trip over obstacles and so on.
No--for me--better to do your homework before coming rather than find out after a few years --if you last that long--that this is definitely NOT what you thought it would be.