Good things in Riyadh...

people say that actions speaks louder than words but sometimes we still have to hear the words and see the actions at the same time, coz words without actions are empty and actions without words are confusing...

the_dreamer wrote:

Riyadh is very conservative country ...

Welcome to the forums but excuse me Riyadh is a city and not a country.

sorry, i know it's a city, im just forgetful sometimes ...thank you for the constructive criticism.

to get something you never had, you have to do something you never did...When God takes something from your grasp, He's not punishing you, but merely opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you...

so is this a good thing ? to be bored ! and saving Money ! because you don't have a social life?

definitely YES!!! just look at the positive side not on negative since we are here to work not for having fun.

hello everybody im newly employed in a clinic and is now preparing my documents to go to duhrat albadeia. just wondering hows life there??

Wherever we may choose to go and live and work, and, for whatever reasons, be it saving money or having a life filled with pleasure and fun, what matters most, at the end of the day, is the choices we make based on our own needs and reqirements.

One persons difficult environment may easily be anothers comfortable life. Everything is relative to ones needs and subsequent choices made based on those needs.

Since we have all made the personal choice of coming to live and work here, for whatever reasons of our own, lets do so peacefully, comfortably, and kindly, and get on with our lives comfortably.

This forum has been established so we may share, exchangfe, and socilaize with each other. Surely, we can achieve that well, too.

God Bless!

(Gee, my proof reading has not been good today...)
Anyhow...
My husband, daughter and I are moving to Riyadh this summer. We'll be living on a compound and he'll be working at a hospital.  I have lived on posts before and in harsh environments, (e.g., the interior of Alaska) but I have never believed that I was there "only to work, and not have fun". I know life is short. So I am not putting joy and happiness on hold b/c I'm in a strange place, including Saudi Arabia. On the contrary, it sounds like an exotic,  wildly different place than where I'm from, and that is worth something to me. It's stimulating.  It's valuable in and of itself.   I hope to find ways to enjoy my life and enrich the lives of those I love, and those around me, as best I can - no matter where I am. I know I can, b/c I have before.  Living on post (base, or compound) was often better for us b/c there were people there who spoke English (A lot of native Alaskans do not speak English, by the way) and had a lot more in common with us than on the economy. In some countries I would say "get off the compound" but in some countries, it's best at least to start on one. I'm going with my gut that says to live on the compound. I wish I knew which one though!

I believe in a small community, like a compound or base or housing development, with few commercial entertainment activities, (and like Riyadh is, by Dreamer's description at least) we will be forced to create and structure and produce our own fun activities. That's alright with me. Glad to know now!

You have to get out of your comfort zone, but it IS possible to do. When we moved to the frozen interior of Alaska for 3 long years,  I had a newborn baby, no job, and two older children. But I did not "surrender" to the dark and cold. I joined or formed writer's groups, taught public speaking classes,  tutored playwriting groups, auditioned for every play they had, did stand up comedy, held "mini-festivals" of play reading with actors, hosted parties with games, got in great physical shape, did volunteer work,  and went camping, hiking, and yes, I shopped too. My husband and I love the outdoors, and we did a dozen other activities WE created ourselves. It doesn't take anything but imagination and the ability to say "yes". Besides, at least it won't be  -0'F there! I love the sun.

So I guess I'm getting a good picture of what to expect. I thank you for that. But I have to say dreamer, you sound a little depressed.  The fact that I have a ton of activities going on while living where I am today (an hour from Los Angeles, California) does not mean my life is filled with one fun exciting adventure after another. We still cook and clean and do laundry, and we live a lot more expensively here. Also  some of the activities are a bit too much. Sometimes I think we need to do a little more thinking for ourselves, instead of having our entertainment spoonfed to us with video games and over the top special effects. I don't know if I'm being clear but that's just my take on it. Of course, in a year or two, maybe I'll be going nuts for "real" entertainment!

My main concerns are how the western women are treated and whether my daughter will be alright. I don't know how one chooses an international school with only online information. She is only 12 years old, and isn't thrilled about this move. Her older siblings are in college now, so she'll be on her own in a new country. The legal system and the way we hear they treat women is so different from what I'm used to, it does worry me. So I hope we're just hearing of isolated incidents. I'm an attorney, but I doubt I'll be able to work as one there. It's a different culture, and I accept that.  I know not everyone wants our life style and somedays, I don't either!  Anyhow, I also know there are no movie theaters there.

Are there plays of any type?  Are there any performers who sing or dance at all in public? What about ballet? Or classical music? What about TV? Is it monitored, or can we watch what we want in our homes?  Is the internet available pretty much anywhere? 

Thanks for all the info, and for posting here! Hope you start having some fun, Dreamer

Spitfire8

the_dreamer wrote:

sorry, i know it's a city, im just forgetful sometimes ...thank you for the constructive criticism.

this is wat happens wen u r here...he he he

@spitfire...y is ur name reminding me of world war II???
well, welcome in advance. its really gonna be a completely new experience for u and ur family here as it is wenever u r moving to a new place/country...but to make things clear, Saudi Arabia is completely different. its a very good place to earn and make a living. but i feel wats there to live the way we dont want to?? (just my thinking, and i know it is wrong!)
as u r will be with ur family, i am sure u will have great time as this is the place where one can give loads of time to family. my advice to u is to stay at any american compounds so that ur daughter wont feel much of a difference it will be easier for her to adjust. u will find a lot of like minded people in these sorta  compounds.
there r some plays i heard which are performed at the embassies, i dont know as never attended any.
there is no way to monitor the TV as it is telecasted directly from the satellites. as for internet, it is available everywhere and it is monitored very strictly unless u have a satellite internet. so much strict that some of the social activity sites are also blocked.

this place is a bit hard to explain as its really different from other places and no one will be able to understand til he/she comes here. so come here and explore, u will have a nice time. take care and hope u have a great time ahead.

THANKS for the answer! Hmmm so "spitfire" is not a good name? It is a nickname my mom gave me b/c I was a "mouthy" child and spoke out a lot. IF you think I should change it, I MIGHT.

So the internet is filtered? And so can I post what I want to whom I wish, or is it more like they block our access to news, or what? I am confused about this. I know China blocks google, or did. So that their search engine is blocked. But are internal communications between people blocked too?

You have never been to a play of any kind? Wow. I mean, I realize some plays would offend the culture there but what about Shakespeare or even some of the old comedies? Also "Death of a Salesman" was a play critical about materialism in America, among other things. It did not make the US look good in a way. It's by Arthur Miller. Many many plays are not political, (most are not) but are you saying that ALL plays are banned?  Who are the Saudi celebrities? Are the people able to watch any live theater? A comedian?  Not all of them do political jokes.


I thought it was only film that was banned, and by the way, even though I DO understand why some films would be banned, I don't understand why ALL of them are.  Are there ANY forms of live entertainment?

Like you said, this will be very different for me.  You also said "social networking" is banned, you mean like Facebook? Oh wow, that would be VERY hard for me to adjust to...wow.  Why do they do that? Why invade my privacy if they know I'm not trying to hurt anyone? Why can't I talk to my friends back home? Honestly that will make the move MUCH harder and if they really want western doctors to come out there, why make it so hard on us?
YOU WROTE:
"but i feel wats there to live the way we dont want to?? (just my thinking, and i know it is wrong!)" --and I don't understand what you meant. 

But you were clear about me asking my husband about living on an "American" compound,  and that makes sense. I DO want to know the Saudi culture and not hide from it, but I also want to be respectful and not offend anyone. What happens if I am off the compound when its' time to pray?  I can kneel down and pray, but would not want to do it the wrong way. 

SO, can you tell me what YOU do socially for fun?   And have you been on a compound? What are they like? What nationality are you? Your English is pretty good! Do compounds allow us to invite co-workers to our home,  even if they are not married? I mean we can segregate them some but the idea that foriegners are offended by who I have at my home is disconcerting. Can I at least ask?

Oh by the way, do you think I'd be able to get a teaching job there? ( I was giving up on a law job, but then saw one posted, so who knows?)   If so, would it only be on the compound? I bet a ton of women are ahead of me in line for work, but I won't give up and not working won't kill me either... I'm still not clear about how my daughter will be treated when living there. The community here thinks that Saudi is Mars and will wonder what happened to our daughter when she retuns. But she'll hageref

And is it hard to find a housecleaner or a gardnener a few times a week?  (Hey, before you get the wrong idea, I DO NOT have either of those right now & we are not "filthy rich" Americans YET!) But  if the compound is beautiful and if I am working outside the home, we have worked hard to find work and although I know if it's  going to be necessary if the housing is an apartment anyhow. But I thought I'd ask you anyhow, b/c if I am working full time, I want my spare time with my family. Make sense?

Is there anything to do beforehand to prepare to move there? I think you telling me to expect culture shock. I will try. Thank you so much!  This really helps. As I asked though, are you Saudi? Can we invite you over (my husband and I) or will you have to be with a woman OR ignore me? Just asking...

Spitfire8 

PS are most homes small?    What should I expect to spend on food for 3 with my husband being a big eater?  NO PORK I KNOW...but other than that...

hey! u dont need to change the name...was just telling u wat i thought of...
the internet is not filtered, but its mostly blocked. thank god facebook is not blocked yet (I wud have died), but orkut is.
i have been to plays, in fact, i acted in some as well (just for fun), but never in Saudi Arabia. These kind of entertainment is banned here.
you will definitely find out about Saudi culture werever u live; be it a compound or anything. so dont worry. its not tat easy for a woman to pray wherever she likes. cant explain much. u will understand urself wen u come here.
i dont do much for fun. lol (sounds weird). well, i have been to some compounds in Jeddah; you wont find much of a difference in their lifestyle compared to way back home. compounds are actually good place to have fun socially. yes, u can invite people even if they are single.
i dont know much about house cleaner in compounds so i am not the right person to answer that.
well, i am not a saudi...and thanks for inviting tho.
homes are quiet big compared to normal houses in america. and for expenditure on food, i aint much sure but it is definitely cheaper if u compare to any other part of the world!

well, u will get all ur answers wen u r here. hope to see u guys enjoying here and be ready to become one of the FILTHY RICH AMERICANS!

hey...i think its easier for u to get a teaching job at any american schools here. but i think u have to give up ur hopes for the law job.
by the way, wats hageref??

"hageref?"   I don't know what that means although there's an author of some type with that name. Maybe it's Arabic,  and since I only speak English and a little French, I'm the wrong one to ask. Sorry.

I understand what  you are saying about a law job. They'd likely say no due to being around men and I cannot imagine working in a "no male" environment in law, unless they have some family law cases wherein ALL the clients are female. I like teaching. But the other side of that "male environment" thing is, I was in the Army where 85% of the personnel are male! I was verbally flirted with, or "harrassed" maybe twice. I spoke up, and it never happened again. I also remained faithful to my husband so I'm at a loss as to how it seems that in Saudi,  the men are not trusted at all. Oh well. I cannot judge b/c I don't know many Saudi men. And  It's not my country and I don't HAVE to work there.

Saudi sounds like a TOUGH place for a single person of either sex to live in without family there. I assume you are there for making/saving money, but you are trying to still "have a life" While you are there. That's the only way to live. Make the most of where you are.  I'm just trying to help out our youngster too. She adapts - but at this age, (12-13), it's a tough time to move.
The more I can prepare her and plan for fun things, the better. Oh, do they have Skype on your computer? Hope so.  And Facebook will help my daughter SO MUCH I hope they don't filter that out. If she can stay in touch with her friends, she'll make it I  think  but if not, I don't know.  It will make it much much harder for her. And me!
Thanks again for replying.
Spitfire8

spitfire8 wrote:

The community here thinks that Saudi is Mars and will wonder what happened to our daughter when she retuns. But she'll hageref

u said that so asked...maybe typo error

Oh by the way, the last 2 years my husband and I took a lot of time off b/c his mother had cancer and she passed away last month. So we are trying to catch up financially...(bet you feel guilty NOW??? I'm teasing. But yes she did have cancer and she did pass away and yes we are trying to catch up, but I know you were joking about the "filthy rich"...)

Not all of us are "FILTHY RICH"....besides, who said it has to be "filthy"?  can't you be clean and rich?  I always wondered about that phrase...
S-

“I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend.”
(Thomas Jefferson)

i think according to the law u will not be able to work at a law firm...thats the job only for males. if females are working there (which i doubt), they must be saudis only.
as for me, my priority was and is life (i will stop here, dont wanna say more on this over here).
one advice to you, especially for ur kid, is get a magic jack while coming. the call rates here are too high.

sorry to hear about ur mother in law...with filthy rich i still mean that u save a lot here. theres nuthing to spend on so u will save a lot of money here....

you're right...hageref -a typo from typing late at night.

We are likely making the move - and money is the biggest factor, but I admit a fascination with living abroad is another reason too.

I'm slowly realizing that this site is monitored isn't it? Enough said. If I'm wrong, you will correct me. You must realize that this is TOTALLY foreign to me, to have my words monitored is illegal in my country. Soooo....

Thanks for the insights and I suppose I'll pursue teaching. Is there any way you know of, for me to try for a teaching job from here, or do I wait til I get there and then "use" my husbands work permit (iquama??) to get on that and somehow do it that way? Shall I aim at private schools? Also, if we live on a compound are there schools on them or on some of them, or do you drive/get driven to the schools each day?  If you don't know the answers to this, please don't worry about it.

Is your family with you or are you alone and sending money back home or what?
"Talk" to you later, and thanks for sticking your neck out to help total strangers.

i stay alone here. i aint married. its not that monitored but ya, these types of forums do get monitored to gather information about wats going on where. i dont think the mails and chat will be monitored so chill...ur words will not be monitored here as well...its against the etiquettes.
abt the school jobs, i might not be the right person....

Thanks for all the insights and advice. Just wondering about food prices and availability. Also cell phones. Am I in the wrong forum for that?  Do we buy them over there or keep the ones we have now and hope they work?  Is it alright to take our cameras and take pictures of architecture or the streets? Can we rent or buy DVDs?
Are the prices of electronics there better or worse than other places, like here? Where are you from?  And your family is back home which is where?

Why are you in Riyadh?
Thanks again for the info!  Oh is your name "Ali" or Shahab?

Spitfire

ha ha ha...never in my life answered these many questions, not even during exams!
this is the best place for food on earth. but all fatty!
u can carry ur cell phone as long as it is GSM (not CDMA nor TDMA). i think cell phones and call rates are really high here. instead of necessity, its kinda luxury here still. yup u can take pictures here, but we really have to be careful on that as well. there are many things here which u can only understand wen here. i prefer downloading movies here than renting/buying.
i think the prices are almost similar but u guys get good deals there.
y r u so curious about my home country? well i am from India. its a very long and difficult question to answer about y i m in riyadh. and u can call me Shahab.

spitfire8 wrote:

Thanks for all the insights and advice. Just wondering about food prices and availability.

You will become quite familiar with Tamimi's, which is affiliated with US's Safeway.  There you will find tortillas, brown sugar, bbq sauce and countless other American food items.  You may not find everything you are used to eating but you will find enough to give you comfort.  Prices are very good for imported goods as the Saudi government subsidizes many foodstuffs that are imported.

spitfire8 wrote:

Also cell phones. Am I in the wrong forum for that?  Do we buy them over there or keep the ones we have now and hope they work?

Get your phones here.

spitfire8 wrote:

Is it alright to take our cameras and take pictures of architecture or the streets?

Yes, but be careful when photographing government buildings and especially people.  Many Saudis don't like their pictures taken for superstitious reasons and taking pictures of females is an absolute no-no.

spitfire8 wrote:

Can we rent or buy DVDs?

You can...but there won't be near the selection back in California, for sure.  You can download many of the most recent movies and buy pirated copies (ask around for locations) of the latest Hollywood blockbusters.

spitfire8 wrote:

Are the prices of electronics there better or worse than other places, like here?

A little better in the USA, but not much, really.  If you bring in your laptop, prepare for it to be confiscated - which always a possibility - so that it can be checked for what is considered socially unacceptable images (anything the Saudis deem pornographic, which would probably include pictures of you at the beach in your bikini).  Often you can just breeze through, but be prepared for that.

Also, depending on your compound, voltage can be an issue. I live in a 110V compound but will move soon to a 220V compound.  If your electronics aren't 220 capable, you might think about replacing them.

spitfire8 wrote:

Where are you from?

I know you asked Ali, but I'm from the USA, but have lived overseas for 15 years, in several different countries.

spitfire8 wrote:

And your family is back home which is where?

I am married to an accountant from Thailand.  My step-kids remain there with my wife and I go home three or four times a year.

spitfire8 wrote:

Why are you in Riyadh?

I was in Riyadh...I am currently in Jubail.  I work for a US Navy subcontractor teaching Saudi Naval Cadets.

wow...stretch has stretched! he answered all the questions perfectly!

Thanks Shahab,

the reasons for the numerous questions are b/c you answer them and seem friendly. Also about your own country the questions are b/c I need to know your frame of refernce for comparison sake.  If you came  from a western nation and found it easy to adjust there, that would mean a lot more to me than if you come from a place like Saudi and found no problems adjusting. Make sense?

Anyhow, thank you again for your time.
Spitfire

i think it is past 12 now where u r! dont u have to sleep??
well, dont worry much, i know y u askin these many questions. i m sure u will have a nice time here so chill and wait for the good times ahead...ya, it is a bit different from other places, if u r with ur family, i am sure u will enjoy here...as i said before, nice place to give time to ur family and a perfect place to save a lot...i didnt get adjust to this place as i aint like saving much

Oh, Spitfire...I forgot one key element. 

Don't bring in any religious items.  Santa Claus and Christmas trees are prohibited here.

You can get things like lights and garland and even non-religious ornaments at various Filipino stores or Saco (affiliated with Ace Hardware, in the US).

Just a word to the wise...

thank you Mr Stretch,

the laptop comment threw me for a loop. Are you telling me that my hard drive with the litigation files (all confidential attorney work product and attorney client) that I have on my computer from a case I have had for 4 years, would just be zapped away if they found a picture of me, or my college kids, or  nieces and nephews at the beach, (which I am sure I have somewhere on it)?  And the "Darn funny" pictures of my girlfriends at our high school reunion? I mean, they can just take my property and keep it, b/c by first searching it, they could find something offensive to them? I'm not talking porn for Pete's sake. And this happens at the airport? Wow...okay, good to know.

I KNOW,  I Know, I'm not in America anymore. You have to understand my training and years of practicing law and as a female don't jive well with that and I have to really wrap my brain around it all. Just give me a little time to take a breath when I read things like that...
and the driver that the company is giving us, is that for my husband to get to work or for me to get around or our daughter to get to school, or all three, or just my husband? Do we ask now?

Okay...thanks for the info gentlemen. I appreciate it. Wow...

I understand the change in mindset that this is going to require for you. I was a journalist and broadcast host for many years before becoming an overseas instructor.  The loss of freedom, right to privacy, free speech and equality can be a tough one.

Ask all you want...many of us have already been through the mill and understand.

u will have the privilege to see many more surprises here lady...so keep ur fingers crossed and pack ur bags and fly here!

Hello, Spitfire:

I hope that you're still checking this forum! I initially wanted to send you a private message, since this might be long, but I guess someone else could benefit from your questions and the answers as well!

First of all, I hope all is well with you and your family. I am very sorry about your mother in law; I hope your husband and family are doing better now. Second of all, I hope your preparations for your trip to Riyadh are running smoothly!

I hope that I can answer all your questions here. Please let me know if I've forgotten anything. I was born in Philadelphia but grew up in Riyadh, then I lived in the states for my 5 years in college. I moved back to Riyadh in May, and what a transition. Things are so different here - different from both California and the East Coast - in many ways. You can make this place your home, though.. because it might be for years to come, and that's great! You might also be able to make some changes while you're here Be positive! A friend of mine has told me that Riyadh is the place to be for the next 10 years.. that by being here, I'm  part of history in the making.. that Riyadh will be so different even 5 years from now; probably the fastest growing city in the world, or even THE largest city in the world. This friend of mine is American, and he just moved back from Los Angeles. It was his choice to come back and work here.

Okay so I haven't answered your questions yet hehe. Here goes:

It'll be really hard for your daughter to move to Riyadh, but it'll probably be much easier for her than for you and your husband - she's still growing, and it will be easier for her to adapt. I definitely recommend the American International School - Riyadh (AIS-R) for her schooling - I went there my last two years in high school and it was an unforgettable experience. My sister is graduating from there next month, and the education at AIS-R is probably the best in the Middle East - from KG1 to ES to MS to HS. I loved it there, and so does my sister. You can't really compare it to any public or private schools in the United States, because it's more of an International experience, but it's pretty close! They have dances, proms, plays, art exhibitions, sports, concerts, and all that jazz. Their extra curricular classes include theater, art, choir, music,  etc. The campus is very nice for a school in Riyadh. They also offer the IB (International Baccalaureate) diploma, or just IB individual classes in high school. You can also choose to take regular High School classes, but I don't believe they offer AP classes. They have student governments, and all kinds of student organizations, from language clubs to the rock climbing club to Model United Nations (MUN). I think it's a great way for your daughter to ease into the transition, and I think the international experience will be exciting for her. Check out their website; www.aisr.org if you're interested!

As I mentioned above, there are plays and performances at AIS-R. Growing up, I've gone to many of the school's plays, and to some musicals. I also took a drama class, as well as a choir class, in my senior year. I've performed in concerts at school. There was also a trip that the choir class took to Oman, where the students met with other choir students from different schools in the Middle East and Asia, and performed all together. For my drama class, we had many projects to do; some of them were to write our own plays and perform in front of families and friends. I have also been to concerts and plays outside of AIS-R, in compounds and at embassies. I once also went to a show choir! I think that's what it's called.. where people dance and sing at the same time. You can go to concerts at embassies as well. Every year, stand up comedians come to Riyadh from different parts of the world, and perform in different places in Riyadh, whether at an embassy or the American school or a golf course a little outside of Riyadh. If you come here, I can always keep you updated on whatever I hear is going on, but I believe that if you live in a western compound, you'll get more updates than me But I wanted to tell you earlier, that if you wanted to, you can start a performance organization here if you like.. you can bring talented people together and have plays and musicals and all that. That would really be appreciated by the expat community here. I love theater as well but I wish I knew where to start!

As for work, you could practice as a lawyer if you wanted to here, but there are restrictions. A friend of mine is a Saudi lawyer here, and she went to law school in England and France. She tells me that non Saudis can practice here, but need to train for 2 years here if they have an LL.M. (Master of Laws), or 3 years if they do not have an LL.M. To learn more about how you can practice law in Saudi as a woman, here's an article that was written recently:

http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article27225.ece

As for teaching, you will always find opportunities in Riyadh for that. It's probably the most popular job for females in Saudi Arabia. What do you like to teach? I suggest you get in touch with AIS-R and see what openings they have for the year 2010-2011. If you apply, I believe that they will give you a work permit and Iqama (Residency). If not, then you will get it from your husband. Either way, you WILL get your permit. Also, teaching will give you enough time to settle down in Riyadh before beginning work, that is if you come to Riyadh in the next few months! It'll also be great to be near your daughter if you both enroll and teach at AIS-R.

When it comes to housing, you should start off in a compound. There are many great compounds, such as Hamra, Cordoba, Arizona, Jadawel and Yamama. You just need to check for vacancies. Some compounds also require that you work for certain companies or work for the government. They're also very expensive! Arizona is a beautiful compound.. it's got a man made lake, pools, tennis courts, a baseball field, stables, a farm, and the list goes on. It's got a lot of greenery as well. But I believe that housing costs between $45,000 to $67,000 a year - somewhere in that ballpark. I believe that Hamra and Cordoba are on the cheaper side - I THINK. The British International school is located in Hamra compound. I believe that there are other international schools in other compounds. If you're coming and if you're interested in learning more about these compounds, please let me know and I'll send you a list of names and contacts. You can also find cheaper places to live, of course! I live in a 10-townhouse community with a pool and a courtyard. It's a 2 bedroom, 1.5 bath townhouse, and we pay $13,500 a year. I don't recommend you live in a small compound such as the one I live in, but the point is, you can find housing in all price ranges

I work with a very nice gardener. He can fix up your garden however you like it, and his prices are reasonable. I'll get you in touch with him. You can also find a housecleaner easily - part time or full time. As for the work driver, I have no idea whether he's just for work or for you as well. You might be able to use him during the day, but if you teach at one of the international schools in Riyadh, you can either take the school's bus, a carpool, or hire another driver. Services such as housecleaning, gardening, and chauffeuring are relatively affordable in Riyadh.

You can have anyone visit you in your compound; you just need to sign them in at the gate beforehand, or just let the gate know that you're expecting visitors. Security is very stringent in compounds here, so it might throw you off a little. But you can definitely invite singles, couples, families.. whatever. I'm not sure about Saudi nationals though - I think some compounds have certain rules against letting in Saudi men. Maybe not anymore. Anyway, you can always ask and you'll get your answer!! As Americans, compounds are usually very easy going on us. You shouldn't have any problems. You also have the American embassy here if you ever have any questions or concerns! You'll find that you have a lot of protection here.

Mr. Stretch is right - do not bring anything religious with you, unless it's Islamic. It's sad but true - there is no freedom to express any religion other than Islam here. It is not only frowned upon, but it's actually forbidden. Some embassies and compounds have places for prayer such as churches and temples, but that's as far as it goes. However, when Christmas rolls around, you can find ways to buy christmas trees and decorations. People do it everywhere here, trust me. My neighbors are some of them. You just can't put up decorations where the Islamic police can see them (they're not allowed inside compounds).

As for your laptop, I've never had a problem, but some people I know have. Just to be sure, you and your husband and your daughter should all back up ALL your files onto external hard disks, and pack those in your suitcases where they don't really show. Remove any pictures on your laptops, because they might search you. A friend of mine, who already lives here, once got searched and they broke his laptop because they didn't like what they saw. He edits movies.. just regular school projects. That's what they didn't like. So yes, you have to put up with some inconveniences here.

As for your cell phones, try going to your network carrier, and ask them if they can "unlock" your phones for you so that you can use them abroad. I know that AT&T can unlock your phones for you for $50, if you're a customer. If your phone is unlocked, you can buy a line from here and use it on your American phone. You'll find all the phones in the world here, though. So don't worry.

You can take pictures here, but you have to be subtle. I was taking pictures with my sister at one of the malls here once, and the security guard came up to us and told us it wasn't allowed. So that was it. So, yes, try to live life as normally as possible, but make sure you don't draw much attention to yourself. BRING YOUR CAMERAS THOUGH!

You will find all kinds of food here, and with all kinds of prices. International cuisine is usually a BIG FAIL, but you should try it all the same. I haven't found one decent mexican or tex mex restaurant here. Indian is delicious here. So is Chinese. Arabic is the best, of course. Saudi is good and cheap. Shawerma and Falafel are a delight! Cheap as well - less than a dollar for one sandwich. Most restaurants are segregated - family sections and single (male only) sections. However, hotel restaurants are usually open to everyone all together. They're also often the most expensive restaurants in the city. We've got franchises such as McDonald's, Burger King, KFC, Hardee's, and also chains including Chili's, Outback, Friday's, etc. The chains here are really expensive compared to what they are in the States. The franchises are fine, though.. they're really cheap. Supermarkets are affordable here, but American imports are the most expensive. You'll find them at Safeway/Tamimi, and they're actually really overpriced, again in comparison with their prices in the States. You can find local brands which are probably half or more than half the price.

I really must go now, but please tell me if I forgot to mention anything. I hope this was helpful!

Two more things; you do know that you have to wear an Abaya here, right? The long black garment? If you want, I can hook you up with "fashionable" ones so that you and your daughter don't feel extremely uncomfortable wearing them

And, which hospital did your husband get a job offer at? My parents are both doctors here, and my husband's clients are all doctors (he works at a major distributor of medical equipment).

Take care and good luck!

Ayah

OH and as for movies, you can buy them censored here, or bootlegged (is that even a word?). I have the Apple TV, so I download all my movies (rent or buy) and shows on there. It's not a problem at all. There is a large cable network here, called OSN or Showtime, and it's not censored. The Internet is monitored and a lot of websites are blocked, but not the major ones such as Google, Youtube, and Facebook. You can also own a blog here. Here's an informative article:

http://thenextweb.com/me/2010/03/13/ene … ext+Web%29

Nothing is either good or bad, only thinking makes it so [Shakespeare]

the_dreamer wrote:

people say that actions speaks louder than words but sometimes we still have to hear the words and see the actions at the same time, coz words without actions are empty and actions without words are confusing...

I'm confused:P

Ayah,
thanks so much for all the info. I am traveling right now but will reply more when I'm back home later this week. Lots of great info.  Gee whiz...thank you again!
S-

The real question is..what is your idea of fun? Boozing/Abusing, Girls and Loud Music? As far as entertainment is concerned...these are the elements that make up irresponsible entertainment. I believe all these are negative forms of entertainment that lead to trouble.

Whatever happened to good clean entertainment like water sports, fishing, sports, shopping, delicious food, hiking, trekking, driving, picnics etc etc. I say entertainment is overrated.

If you are looking for good clean fun...come to Saudi Arabia and experience Entertainment simplified many times over.

There are many things to do in Saudi Arabia...quit whining abt lack of entertainment just coz there are no Pubs or access to women. There's more to life than just booze and sex.

If you are looking for good clean fun...come to Saudi Arabia and experience Entertainment simplified many times over.

I've said this TEN times and I'll say it again:  life here is much easier 1.  if you are married; 2. if you are male.

If you're a single female, your options are pretty much crushed by the system.

That said, I wasn't exactly a social butterfly at home, either, so I'm okay with it

@ cat...wat if u r a single male? i agree that life is easier for a single male than a single female but only if the male is a work-home-work types

The only thing that needs to be fixed is for Single Females to move about. Allowing them to drive fixes the problem

Which will be introduced gradually. I can feel it

Their only concern is that if they allow women to drive, young men will misbehave on the roads...considering how much men in saudi arabia take pride in their cars and driving skills