visiting portugal

Hi,

The only thing I can suggest is fly into Faro then hire a car. Explore the Algarve East, central and WEst. Each offer something different. Then either Fly from Faro to Lisbon explore Lisbon and then hire a car to explore surrounding areas. Then Fly to Porto and hire a car again to explore.
Tour companies IMHO will not give you a flavour how people live only what people see on holiday.

Sorry hope this helps? Any questions about the ALgarve, especailly the Western Algarve, only to glad to help.

[Moderated]

Hi Palmtree22, There is too much to consider to try to put it in two weeks without doing some recon first. Do you want beaches? Big cities? Small isolated farm? Off grid? Nightlife? Culture? Do you want to garden? Hike in the mountains? Snow ski? Scuba dive? Once we know a bit more about what you hope to do with your retirement, we should be able to help you more.

diverdutch wrote:

Hi Palmtree22, There is too much to consider to try to put it in two weeks without doing some recon first. Do you want beaches? Big cities? Small isolated farm? Off grid? Nightlife? Culture? Do you want to garden? Hike in the mountains? Snow ski? Scuba dive? Once we know a bit more about what you hope to do with your retirement, we should be able to help you more.

I agree...There is too much of Portugal to see in only 2 weeks.

I think the questions you have raised are perfect

Yes, I understand what you are saying about two weeks not being enough to see all of Portugal.

I am mainly interested in being on or near a beach.  I understand the southern part of Portugal has some real nice beaches.
I would also like to be near an area that has some nice entertainment both indoor and outdoor.  Being 61, I'm not into bar hopping, but some nightlife would be nice.
I have no interest right now at buying a home, just long term rental, one bedroom apartment in a nice, safe area.  I'm not looking for luxury, just a nice clean basic apartment would do.
I don't speak Portugese, so being around other people that speak English would be a big help in the beninning.  An international community would really be nice.

Hope that helps.
Thanks

Hi Palmtree I would make your first port of call, Lagos in the Western Algarve. There is a great international community and English is widely spoken without the town losing its identity!

It has stunning beaches, picturesque marina, many cultural events and it's in easy reach of the motorwary to visit other larger towns and cities.

Good journey

I am going to disagree with anything on the Algarve. The beaches are nice but the culture is not a match for Lisbon. I chose to be within an hours drive of Lisbon just so I could head in and go to a museum, concert or whatever. In addition, I wanted to be near the water. I ended up south of Lisbon in the area of Sesimbra. Cascais is a bit more expensive but has lots of expats and housing.

What is it about the coast that you like. The ability to sail, dive, fish, surf or just lay on the beach?

diverdutch wrote:

I am going to disagree with anything on the Algarve. The beaches are nice but the culture is not a match for Lisbon. I chose to be within an hours drive of Lisbon just so I could head in and go to a museum, concert or whatever. In addition, I wanted to be near the water. I ended up south of Lisbon in the area of Sesimbra. Cascais is a bit more expensive but has lots of expats and housing.

What is it about the coast that you like. The ability to sail, dive, fish, surf or just lay on the beach?

I use to dive a lot and want to get back into it.  Snorkeling is also something I enjoy.  I'd like to try my hand at sailing and fishing as new activities to enjoy.  Laying around on the beach is nice, but after a while, I want to get up and do something.

Then being near Sesimbra is a good idea for you as well. The water is 17 or so right now but will get down to 12 this winter.  You will want a good semi-dry or dry suit for diving. I dove through the winter last year and enjoyed it. There are 6 dive shops at the harbor and two more shops that take divers out by request. One shop stays open through the whole year and is open 6 days a week. They do not often cancel dives.

The Algarve now has two warships that were sunk for diving two days ago. That said, I am in the Algarve right now with the intention of diving and everyone is canceling due to weather.

Peniche has a few dive shops and the diving at Ilhes Berlingas is good as well but can't be dived if the waves have any west component and are large. As it lies on the west coast and the prevailing wind and waves are from the NW, that is more often than I would like.

Hope that helps.

Hi palmtree22,

Not to rain on your parade, nor am I trying to put Portugal down...

But, even though I know you will love the country and the Portuguese people one thing you must consider if you are planning on retire there is the economic situation. If you will be living on nothing besides your retirement income it could be a real problem. All of Europe is in a financial crisis which puts the very existence of the Eurozone and the Euro under a shadow of doubt. If you still have some other means of generating an income on top of your retirement funds then I'd say go for it without any hesitation. The financial crisis is far from being over, unemployment all across Europe is at record highs and it's my personal experience as Brazil Animator that I'm getting PMs and there are forum postings every single day from people all over the Eurozone and Portugal desparate to get out. Many refer to it as a 'sinking ship'.

As I say, if you have some other means of income then by all means Portugal will be all your dreams come true. If not, at least in a financial sense, it could become your worst nightmare. Go there and enjoy your visit, you will see how wonderful the country is, keep careful records about costs, day-to-day kind of things that you will pay out if you move there, consider the exchange rate, work out a very detailed budget projection and then make an informed decision. Living in a place that's safe as a church which I know you're seeking is one thing, but if that comes at the cost of your entire lifesavings are you willing to pay that price?

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

Hi wjwoodward,

I'm sorry to disagree but you cannot put the EU down just because of the financial crisis. There are thousands of expats in Portugal, yes it is becoming more expensive, but isn't everywhere. It is certainly far cheaper than France and the UK for example.

I personally would not buy a property although there are some fantastic bargains to be had.

Friends in their early sixties have just retired to Lagos in the Western Algarve and they love it. There is a Marina there, so plenty of activities including diving etc. There is also a cultural centre and even Mariza the world renowned Fado singer performed there. It really is a great place to live and you can easily catch a train or coach to Lisbon when you want the hustle and bustle of a large city The weather in the Algarve is also more clement...

Thanks to everybody for your thoughtful comments.  My income would be a combination of my pension from teaching and social security, totaling around $2500 a month US.  Someone else posted a comment saying that would be plenty for a single person like me, but I know I will need to visit and really check out prices of everything I will need.  I really hope Portugal turns out to be a good fit for me.  I have looked into and traveled to many other countries, but Portugal seems to have more of what I am looking for.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed all works out.  I'm really excited about my trip.

That income will do fine if you don't go and blow it all on luxury items and eating out in fancy restaurants. Do you have a time of the year you intend to try your visit? Check out rentals via the website below as it will have a reasonable sample to consider. While it is not an exhaustive list, it does tell you what to expect. imovirtual.com/

We are renting but have our own furniture. When we first arrived, we rented furnished and that almost doubled the cost of renting so be on your toes about that. Feel free to contact me if you have questions. When we began here over a year ago, the whole of Portugal was in our sights. We took out time and narrowed it down until we ended up where we are now.

Oh, and until you get settled and all the paper work is out of the way, you will be using public transportation so you will be looking in not-so-isolated locales

diverdutch wrote:

That income will do fine if you don't go and blow it all on luxury items and eating out in fancy restaurants. Do you have a time of the year you intend to try your visit? Check out rentals via the website below as it will have a reasonable sample to consider. While it is not an exhaustive list, it does tell you what to expect. imovirtual.com/

We are renting but have our own furniture. When we first arrived, we rented furnished and that almost doubled the cost of renting so be on your toes about that. Feel free to contact me if you have questions. When we began here over a year ago, the whole of Portugal was in our sights. We took out time and narrowed it down until we ended up where we are now.

My current plans are to visit some time next May/June because I read somewhere that is when the weather is the nicest, but I also know for the same reason that is when people visit and I'd prefer to avoid the crowds, so, my dates might change.  It seems I would have a much more relaxing trip if I don't have to deal with crowded beaches, towns, etc.

Well, feel free to let me know and contact me. I can show you around Sesimbra a bit and introduce you to the dive shops.

Being a Portuguese and having lived in several areas of the country, I believe I am entitled to give an "authorized" opinion:

North - Porto, Matosinhos, Figueira da Foz, Esposende.
Pros: Porto was considered the best travel destination in the world of 2012 for a major british magazine (and brits know about travel!). It's beautiful and unlike anything you ever seen. And the cost of life in the North can be something like 40% lower than in Algarve or Lisbon. Great food. Much better than in Algarve, no way you can even compare! People are kind and much more accessible. Night life in Porto is great.
Cons: The weather: rains more than in Lisbon or Algarve. In the summer is warmer than the rest of the country. You will definitely need to learn portuguese to take the best out of it.

Lisbon - Cascais, Estoril, Óbidos, Sesimbra
Pros: Here you are closer to everything. It is where more things are going on, more cultural events, Lisbon has a vibrating life and you actually can find every kinds of people from everywhere. Many places to visit, and more diverse than in the South. Cheaper than the Algarve. Cascais has a big expats community, not like the Algarve where british are predominant. More medical, and health, palces and options than any other place in the country. More sport activities of any kind available. Lisbon surroundings have good offer of sea activities all year round, from scubadriving to surf, windsurf, sailing, you name it.
Cons: it's "noisier" Awful drivers in Lisbon. Lisbon + surroundings has 2 million people. The city itself has more population than Miami. Cascais, my "municipio" has a bit less than 200.000, it's smaller than Tampa. You can live without learning portuguese, but it's better to learn.

Algarve - Portimão, Faro, albufeira, Lagos
Pros: The place for tourists and expats that prefer to stay inside their own community speaking their language, making friends to other expats. It is a choice. It will be possible to live in Algarve without learning a single word of Portuguese. I met people living or 20 years in the Algarve that do not speak one single entire sentence in Portuguese. Great beaches. Better winter, closest to Florida's weather.
Cons: more expensive to live than in the rest of Portugal. Highest unemployment rates. Highest drug issues and highest criminal rates in the Country. Food is more expensive and worse. Prices rise in the summer.

See for yourself! This is my honest opinion! If you allow me to suggest, choose a plain to Lisbon, rent a car, make a reservation to a Hotel in Cascais or Estoril, which is only 18 miles far from the Airport, and then go to the places you wish to see. From Lisbon to Porto takes 4 hours driving. From Lisbon to Algarve, only roughly more than 3 hours.
Go to Remax, Century 21 or ERA imobiliaria and compare the prices of property. But you can start by renting. It's a safer option, if you don't know the places.

A comment on William James Woodward - Brazil Animator post:

I do not agree with what you say. It is possible to live in Portugal with 1000€, 1500€ per month, if you live a regular live. Let me tell you, I have friends in Brazil and they tell me that in many aspects Life in Rio de Janeiro or São Paulo is now more expensive than in Portugal!!!!
I didn't kind of understood that issue on "If you will be living on nothing besides your retirement income it could be a real problem". With a retirement income of 1000€ you are actually able to live better here than in Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro!
In a matter of fact, if you do not depend on the Portuguese political system (pensions, wages, salaries) you live cheaper here than in most developed world countries.

Want some examples?
Proper apartment in Estoril or Cascais less than a mile from the sea with 1 bedroom: 500€ per month. Fair apartment in Estoril or Cascais 2 miles from the sea: 400€.
Lunch, complete menu with drink and coffee, 5 to 7 euros. I love sushi, for instance. Eat as much as you like for less than 10€. Want brazilian rodizio??? It's cheaper the rodizio in Portugal than it is in Brazil! You have several eat as much as you want for less than 10€.
Portuguese style breakfast: coffee with milk and cake: 1.5€ to 2€. If you have a sandwich instead of a cake, 2€, 2.5€. An espresso coffee costs 60, 65 cents. A latte or "galão" costs 90 cants or 1€.
Burguer king whooper menu: 5€
Ok, cars are expansive. But you get an used car in decent condition cheap. A Mercedes 190 diesel will cost less than 3000€.
Diesel costs 1.35€ right now, in Jumbo Cascais petrol station. More expensive than in that side of the Atlantic... but average price considering European countries.
Water: consider 30€ per month. Electricity, one person, if you save you spend less than 40€ per month.
Electronic and computer devices, roughly cost the same as in the rest of Europe.
Groceries are always cheaper or cost the same as in the rest of Europe, only Spain in western countries have similar prices.
Internet fiber optic (8mbit, 16mbit) with cable tv and telephone from 50€.
Bus and subway in Lisbon 1.1€ roughly. Train from Lisbon to Cascais (26km) 1.9€.
Cinema 5€ to 7€.
Health care insurance plan depends on age, but there are alternative options like you get a card with which you pay less than the average. Lets say a doctor charges 50€ for a consultation, with the health card you pay 20€.

Samrods

Thank you very much for all the information you provided!  It was extremely helpful.  I am currently planning a trip later this year to Europe, with Portugal being my home base.  Right now, I will start my trip in Lisbon, than travel by train, but I am still looking into that vs. renting a car.  Thanks again

I have a question to ask you if you don't mind.  My plan is to visit Portugal next October because I heard the weather is still good and the flights from the usa to portugal is a little cheaper.  Anyway, I am considering taking the train from one place to another, but am thinking renting a car might be better.  Since i have never been to Portugal, I thought taking the train would make more sense, but want to get the most out of my trip.  What do you think?
Thank you

Hi. Alentejo can be a good experience
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Find Ferreira do Alentejo with Us presents the Alentejo region, providing a guide for the visitor with useful information which will give a greater appreciation of the region.
Take a look and you can have an idea.
Fatima Mourao

Hi piglet

I really appreciate all the honest info you have shared about Portugal, so i have a questions that i hope you might be helpful with.  I am trying to figure out what is the best way to get the most out of my trip to Portugal.  Using the rail system sounds great to go from town to town, but i am not sure how to get the most of each stop i make.  I am considering renting a car in each town but that sounds both complicated and expensive.  I have considered using a tour operator, but they would only take me  to the more touristy places which would defeat my purpose to see if Portugal is a good place for me to retire to.  I have traveled to other countries only to end up stuck in a city with no way to get around other than by foot and you can only cover so much ground doing that. What do you think would be the best way to really get a feel of what Portugal is all about.  My trip there would be around three weeks or more depending on how things go.  Time is not a problem but i don't want to empty my bank account either.  Thanks

Check out city/towns on web - chose a base and work out from base public transport good. Cheers Alex

The public transport in Lisbon is pretty good. You can get to many of the surrounding cities with no problem either by bus or train. Porto has good public transport too. Not sure what there is for public transport in the Algarve. Also, I have not traveled by train outside of the Lisbon metro area so I will be of no help with that. Renting a car is not going to be very economical.

Are you planning to travel further north during this trip? If so, be aware that it will be getting colder at the time of year you are thinking of traveling and driving is not a good option with the weather changing in mountain areas unless you feel comfortable with the European driving style and inclement weather.

I was thinking of flying into Lisbon, and taking some local tours of Lisbon and the surrounding towns than go back to the places i liked the most on my own.  Then I will fly to Faro and do the same there.  Unfortunately, the tour companies i e-mailed never got back to me, so i might just do this trip on my own.  My concern is I don't speak the language, and am concerned that might be a problem with getting around and book rooms in hotels.  I had that problem while visiting other countries, and it really made it hard to really check out the places I stayed.  I thought the tours might avoid this problem.

Assuming that you wouldn´t mind living in the north of Portugal, I would love to recomend you the city of Viana do Castelo or the near by area.
It has wonderful beaches and is less than one hour away from two important cities with airports (Oporto and Vigo in Spain).
It is a beautiful region with some of the most picturesc towns in Portugal like Ponte de Lima and Arcos de Valdevez.
The food is great and one of the cheapest in the country. Is a region of great wines and is relatively near some of the major touristic spots of the northern Portugal like Braga and Guimarães.
People are nice and good neighbours.
The only cons are the weather (colder than in the south and with frequent rain) and the fact that, normally, only the younger people speaks english.
Bottom line, a great place to live, quiet, safe, near sporting and cultural events, with great food and good road access and public transportation too.

Around Lisbon, you should have no problem getting around with English. There are lots of tourists so the companies that deal with that usually have people who can speak it. The younger generation will almost all speak some English. You might think about contacting one of the universities about hiring a student for a week to guide you around...I can ask a few friends as well.

Thanks for your advice.  Being a retired teacher, I try to visit schools in countries I visit, so, hiring a college student to show me around makes perfect sense.  I never would of thought about that.  That's really a cool idea.  It would benefit both the student and myself.  I will definitely look into it.  Maybe I could do the same thing when I am in Faro.

diverdutch wrote:

Oh, and until you get settled and all the paper work is out of the way, you will be using public transportation so you will be looking in not-so-isolated locales

What kind of paperwork do you mean?

Sorry if i mean a bother with so much postings, but I want to make the most of my vist as i can.  i can't afford to do this a lot, and if things work out on my first visit, then i will do what i can for another visit.  i have researched extensibely  on the algarve and central portugal and all sounds great, but i know i can only see so much in a three week visit.  my interest is mainly from lisbon to the algarve in the less poplular areas such as faro and beyond, not so much as the turist areas, since retireing there doesn't include that area.  i have looked at traveling by train, by tours, and traveling by myself that appeals to me the most considering my motives for the trip, but not speaking the language obviously creates problems.  i have traveled in other countries and not speaking the language creates a lot of problems getting around the area.  I will probably make this trip with a combination of local tours and independent travel. My concern is to see as much of Portugal as possible, and really see what Portugal is all about, but i know that travel agencies are more about tourist interests.  i am looking for a more  indepth look into portugal and no tourist agency seems to be offering this.  I am assuming that a car hire might be my best option, but i'd rather not drive in a country that i don't know.  The great rail system in your country sounds great, but ending up in a town and trying to find accomodations without knowing the language sounds like a problem.  any ideas would be appreciated.

You will need a fiscal number (NIF) and a residency permit. If you want to bring goods with you then you will need to have a letter from the PT embassy in your country stating that you are moving to PT and that your goods are just that, your goods. The usual governmental BS thus.

Hi Samrods. What would be the best source for looking for an apartment in Cascais long term?

@ palmtree22

try voyageforum.com to find a possible travel buddy.
Do you need some tour guide recomendation?

Personal goods "import" are usually exempt from tax purposes, thats a global trend, as long as you make a proof of it.
@ Genych
Cascais for me is overpriced.
As a non Portuguese speaker, you might finds offerts at this online :
http://rentavila.com/property/apartments-for-rent.html
suitable for tourist.
So here is a friendly sugestion, an add for "locals" :
http://cascais-cascais.olx.pt/cascais-t … -437433554

note the description "JM Jorge Moura Soc. Mediação Imobiliaria - AMI 2400 " thats the real estage agent name, and license number.
Find 2 real estate on the area you are looking at, contact them so they can prepare a selection of options in accordance to your requirement.

As i often wrote here, when renting to "locals" owners usually ask for a waranty [ tenants points another person as colateral, usually family member ]. Tourits rentals often do not have contract attached to it [ in some case not even a receipt ], when dealing with a licensed real estate they will sugest best way to achieve your intends.

FYI, they say this year we wont have a hot summer in Portugal.... to be seen.

regards, paulo

@ paulopereirra. Thank you very much for your suggestion. I will take a look at your links for sure. You're saying that Cascais is overprice from your point of view and I wonder what could be am alternative to this place, if I want to be close to Lisbon and not far from the sea?

@ Genych,

It all depends on how you piercieve "close".
Do you need to be near Lisbon for work purposes? have to travel to it on a daily basis?

No. Just to go there to visit museums, theaters, etc. and without overnight stays basically. We like to be close to cultural centers but we don't need vibrant night life and would rather stay in a quite area.

Are you from Porto? We wonder what are the main differences and similarities between Lisbon and Porto, apart from location?

Paulo, I just went through the links your mentioned earlier and I can clearly see what you mean by renting to locals vs tourists. I may contact realtors based on that information when we pick the exact reagon/town where we want to land in the end.

Thanks again!

Your problem is that to rent for 5 years, to get the locals pricing, you will need the resident visa status basically. Otherwise, the landlord can't rent to you for more than 6 months and you are back into the tourist pricing.

Does it mean that it is a law - do not rent a property to foreigners for more than 6 months is not allowed? How difficult would be to get a residence for Canadians in PT?