Maadi Sexual Harassment

I don't think foreigners should come here and change the country and impose thier western values. It's just different guys and u knew it before u came here so stop moaning and get on with it or bug off. Nough said

andy_29 wrote:

I don't think foreigners should come here and change the country and impose thier western values. It's just different guys and u knew it before u came here so stop moaning and get on with it or bug off. Nough said

You are telling me that it is in the values of Egyptian society to harass women? And foreigners are wrong to complain about this?

QUOTE: "I don't think foreigners should come here and change the country and impose thier western values. It's just different guys and u knew it before u came here so stop moaning and get on with it or bug off. Nough said"

In point of fact Mr. Nough, when I came here, years ago, it was quite a bit different. Harassment was infrequent and not at all as pervasive as it is now.  But that is entirely beside the point.

I am married to an Egyptian man and his values are neither Western or Eastern but those of a man with strong character and strong moral values.  He would never dream of treating women with the disrespect most of the women today in Cairo are being subjected to.  This has everything to do with his integrity and nothing whatsoever to do with nationality or religion.  In addition, I come into contact with dozens of Egyptian men and youth everyday who are lovely people.

We "Western" women do not come here and impose our values.

WE WOMEN -  EGYPTIAN AND EXPAT ALIKE - are concerned about the rise in hostility towards women in the form of sexual harassment and lack of safety in general, a condition that has grown steadily worse.

It is clear that, aside from exhibiting misogynistic tendencies yourself, that you weren't following the conversation.  Hostility and violence towards women is EVERYBODY'S PROBLEM, not just foreigners. 

The number one concern of Egyptian girls age 18-25 today is personal safety.  This is up by 20% from 10 years ago.  So I believe that those "Western" values you are speaking of are values that are universally shared by women - that is to be treated with respect and to be free to move about without fearing for our personal safety.  All of us women living here in Cairo are "moaning" about it.

What is interesting is the men who are taking part in this conversation all seem to be threatened by women demanding equity.  Now, why should women complaining about maltreatment be any kind of threat to you, Mr. Nough, that you should be so incensed that you were compelled to write such an ugly, hostile message?

Hmmmm.

No I am telling u to be respectful of Egyptian culture and the religion of the majority (Islam) by covering urself and not putting urself in a position to be harassed. I mean u knew it before u came here didn't u. I just hate moaning

Lisa ur text is not worth of a reply so I have nothing to say to u mrs german shepherd dog. Nice dog though

You must be um, well, can you read?

Not all women cover but all women get harassed - even those in hijab. That's number one.

Number two, I've been here over 6 years and I'm 50 years old, my husband is Muslim and I am not. Christians do not veil and I do not veil. But that's also beside the point.  You have no idea what respecting the culture means - it does not mean women have to veil.  You must be thinking be confusing Egyptian culture with Saudi Wahabism.  Egyptians are very proud of their open society, and most prefer and seed a liberal government with separation of religion and politics.

Number three - you just got here and it seems you don't know much.  The "Egyptian" culture is a singularly unique one, and is not simply Islamic.  At any rate, not all Muslim women veil but we went over that in point two.

Number three - You are exactly the moronic, low IQ kind of guy who I would expect to say that women are "putting urself in a position to be harassed."

Had you read all the posts (here is where I begin to incline toward your reading skills being less than par) then you would be aware that ALL WOMEN ARE GETTING HARASSED, VEILED OR NOT.

I am 50 years old young man, and if you hate moaning then get our of our conversation, and be sure you never get married, because your wife will no doubt one night stick a knife in your ribs while you're sleeping. 

Because, in case you hadn't noticed, you are moaning on about us moaning.  You, sir, are an Epsilon.

andy_29 wrote:

Lisa ur text is not worth of a reply so I have nothing to say to u mrs german shepherd dog. Nice dog though

That would be considered a reply Andy.

(moderated: rude comment)

(moderated: offensive post)

andy_29 wrote:

I don't think foreigners should come here and change the country and impose thier western values. It's just different guys and u knew it before u came here so stop moaning and get on with it or bug off. Nough said

i've read some of your comments and i can tell you two things:

1. You are a hater and a really stupid person.

2. Foreigners should not complain?and take it as it is? So why muslims from all over the world travel to france,Germany,Usa,Canada e.t.c and trying to impose Shariah law and build Mosques? And in some places Government approves their demands,but they still keep on complaining..they want to wear Burqa in the countries where its not appropriate,its like wearing bikini in saudi arabia or any other muslim country.And when they get fined for wearing a burqa what they do?they again complain! and if a girl in bikini get fined or jailed what  she will do? nothiing..she will accept it and understand that its not appropriate to wear bikini in that country.
This is really pisses me off,because people like you dont understand and cant look further and see what is going on on the other side.

If everyone was respective to the laws and traditions of the country the're going to travel to or immigrate to,then there would be no problems,no hate.
I understand and see all 2 points of view,and what's really driving mad is that i cant do anything to change it and make it better.

i do find it "funny in context," that the very females tasked with raising the children are crying about their male child's behavior issues related to the opposite sex.

The problem is with the men, and the disrespectful way they are conditioned, in school, at home and by their peers.

It is or will be a good thing when the ladies of Egypt begin the process of honest discovery and implement the needed change or adjustment at a level where is can begin to change the cultural aspects of this issue.

You females need to start kicking your sons ass for this type of crap.

for the record there is no need for name calling!

The things you mention below are all the cultural elements that have not been mentioned up to your post these are the issues i was referring to in context as being funny.

what a waste of time and effort to post a thread about this type of issue without getting to to the root of the issue.

But do you really mean this?! yikes
"respectful ladies try never to walk alone in the streets here,and when they are forced to they understand that how they move,where they walk and or even a glancing look from them is and open inventatiation to abuse of this type as you have already labled yourself a working street walker and this i find sort of funny also."

I assume by 'working street walker' you mean prostitute? Are you really saying that women deserve harrassment because they have no respect for themselves if they dare to walk alone (or even with a female/male friend, as has happened to me) as they are branding themselves a prostitute? This is really offensive if so, and I hope I've just misunderstood your point smile

Women should have every right to walk alone and feel safe here; we aren't in Saudi Arabia (no offence meant to anyone from Saudi, but women have no rights there). Egypt has a real chance of being a great place (perhaps I should say 'even greater' wink ) if we can tackle these issues.

I understand that many uneducated men may mistake a glance for an invitation, and I always try to avoid that kind of body language, but equally one can give no 'invitation' at all and still get harrassed. For men (the harrassers I mean) to make assumptions like this about random women they pass on the street shows that they are ignorant and desperate and need to be taught a lesson. Maybe it's human psychology (whether male or female) try to compensate one's own weaknesses by attacking or belittling another whom they perceive as weak, and that's all they are doing sad

This kind of thing needs to be brought to the surface, exposed and faced up to, not accepted as the status quo. It does happen  in every country, of course, but I'm happy for the countries that have a good system to protect people, where it is reported & dealt with. I hope that this minority of men (as most are fairly respectful of women) who cause trouble in Egypt will learn in time that this is wrong, but it's up to us women to show them the error of their ways if we can, without deliberately putting ourselves in danger of course smile

Fair warning

andy_29 wrote:

Lisa ur text is not worth of a reply so I have nothing to say to u mrs german shepherd dog. Nice dog though

This proves the education of SOME Egyptian kids, I said SOME, not all! Education means here not how much you spend with schools, but WHAT YOU REALLY ARE TAUGHT IN YOUR FAMILY!
Who is desperate? A foreign lady that has her way in life OR a young man that his society doesn t let him to have his own family, wife & kids, I mean until he produces a house and too many benefits for them ?
Maybe this young man is clever and nice, but these don t produce too much money for marriage.
What he can do in this situation? Harassment is the solution, costs nothing, and it s like entertaining for him!
But dirty with mad is easier than changing the behavior . Not separation and covering is the solution, but education of the boys to be respectful.
Finally, this is a forum for expatriates, and if you don t like the topic, kindly please see another forums that match your needs!

andy_29 wrote:

I don't think foreigners should come here and change the country and impose thier western values. It's just different guys and u knew it before u came here so stop moaning and get on with it or bug off. Nough said

In the last time, I could see that generally, Egyptian people, most of them, they have a problem with foreigners. I think this is a false problem, Egypt is in this situation not BECAUSE OF FOREIGNERS that are here, for sure!

i do find it "funny in context," that the very females tasked with raising the children are crying about their male child's behavior issues related to the opposite sex.

This again is a sexist attitude, only the females tasked with raising the children? What about the fathers, have they no part to play?  if some of these guys stepped back and thought about how they would feel if it was their mother or sister being subjected to the abuse they may change their attitude, but that would require having a conscience and accepting that they are responsible for their own innappropriate actions, and question a society that permits the routine degradation of women without consequences. After all if SCAF can condone virginity tests their actions are inconsequential.

What is happening to Egypt? Why has the revolution that was supposed to make many things better done the opposite? Does Egypt need a second one?

I am just so concerened about whats going on in Egypt! i hope everything gets back to normal! Maadi was the safest area in cairo and it was full of foreigners! what the hell has happened! part of me cant believe what you are saying but actually whats going on in Egypt these days makes it easier to believe that anything can happen!
I am really shocked to read about whats going on in Maadi but i still feel that those might be incidents that rarely happen because locals living in maadi, zamalek, heliopolis and parts of nasr city are used to having foreigners living among them and they have always been taking good care of them and treating them with all respect!

Administrators, please ban andy_29. His rude, argumentative comments and name-calling are offensive and unnecessary. Thank you!

...so, the foreigners cannot bring here their "western values", just "western work standards" it might be fine, but when the country will collapse without the foreigners what will happen?...

In any case, until the value of the woman will be half of the man, as for the local rules, the democracy will be in the drawer of the forgotten things.
Ciao
G.

Flowergirl u r a disrespectful .... I respect the forum So I will not diss but yes we r in Egypt so u go with the flow or if u don't like it u move on that's bottom line instead of whaling  and whinging all the time. To my Italian friend well if u do a job here it's because they pay u and if u find a higher payday u will leave so cut the .... And it's not up to u may be Egyptians don't like the western version of democracy so stop judging them and let them make their own rules

@snow r u serious?! Lol ban me for what? Speaking my mind and defending the Egyptian ppl

Giuseppe wrote:

but when the country will collapse without the foreigners what will happen?...

With all due of respect. I totally see what you are trying to say and totally respect each letter and each word you wrote. Thank you
Let me remind you, the western values are not as you think. 90% of the expats are working here, because simply, they cannot compete with toughness of the job market in their home country. Simply, as you know most of you guys get above Egyptian salary which is not even near the half of European salary. So why do you agree for such a salary? It is better than nothing in your home country (I am not talking personally) plus how cheap is it to live in a country with weak currency; currency exchange rates give you the feeling of how rich you are - cliché.
It is not about the WESTERN, Go to china for example, you will find Egyptians are FAIRLY competing for the job. Here you are the foreign guy, who is different, that's all; you are not more than this, believe me.
You are winning the competition, because simply it is not fair.
Plus who is illegally working here, should be deported Am I right?
I think Egyptians who decide their own good. No country will collapse because of you are here or not. You do not matter at all.
You owe to all the Egyptians a real and sincere apology for underestimating them.
You are Italian; correct me if I am wrong. The nearest European mindset to the Egyptian one. So it is not nice to think this way. Do you think, your presence in Egypt mattered with the revolution? If so please let me know if you were a main factor behind the revolution. I am writing a book about it. If you are a reason, I can have one chapter talking only about you. Did you flee the country during the unrest or you did stay? Maybe you are an investor which is good thing and Egyptian laws guarantee all the investors rights, but do not ever think that you are the one who will build Egypt by his hands and money. Simply you invest here not because of your love to the country but because of the consuming power and amount of Egyptians. All of that if you was an investor.
Who fled the country just because of a 18-day political unrest. Should Egypt count on him/her?
REMEMBER ALL, I do not talk about anyone here or directed to one person, I simply respect all of you and more special respect to Giuseppe who has the feeling that he wants to do something for Egypt. And more and more respect to Burnside, for reporting such incidents.

So sorry to write off the topic!

On topic, we need to agree admitting the truth is the best option. Yes lately a lot of reports from purse snatching and more from Maadi. We cannot be unfair and blame the victim by saying ‘Do you know at any city you need to be a street wise' let's stop our masculine provoking nature and always blame the women but we need to show some sympathy and it is more than enough the terrible feeling she faced right after this incident. SHE IS THE REAL LEARNER HERE. live and learn! and I am really sorry for this. And thank you for your caring personality that you want to report this to let others to be cautious and more street wise.

I hope, you have no evidence to prove that Westerns are the pyramids builders.

Well said mnas

mr nough
we are all speaking our mind or are only YOU allowed to do that.

Yes mrs nough. How's ur Egyptian husband?

mnas wrote:

Giuseppe wrote:

but when the country will collapse without the foreigners what will happen?...

I hope, you have no evidence to prove that Westerns are the pyramids builders.

Sure, I agree, but Westerns are PYRAMIDS VISITORS
The rest what you said I agree. In fact the topic was open to warn people about thieves, to have more caution, because looters were not something very usual in Egypt before, and maybe soon these events will be less!
About administrators, I think they are very happy, writing here, the traffic is increased ....

andy_29 wrote:

Yes mrs nough. How's ur Egyptian husband?

How to be? Egyptian he is! And by the way, people are good or bad not because they are from one nationality or another, from one religion or another! Simple they are good or bad!
Andy, do you have something against Egyptian husbands?... Or... why did you ask the lady such a question?

About harrasments even boring to speak, because it is too much in Egypt. Andy_29 was right, when told that it is an egyptian culture (and he told it about all muslim word), so all of us can see what is Egypt now. He teached us how to wear. Have you ever seen egyptian girls in hejab sitting at nights with boys and hugging each other?! If no, you can see it every day in Zamalek behind Hilton hotel in cornishe. There you can see real egyptian culture - muslim girls and boys who are speaking a lot about their's culture and religion, sitting there by huggings, kiss each other in the cars...
I am pregnant now and 2 weeks ago some gyus (4 ppl +1 was in the car) come around me and my husband near Nadi Il Shams. They kept in hands smth like swords, they bite my hussband with that and took my bag, where were my passpot, money, cards, driver license etc.... After this bleeding startered and was at the hospital!
To the one who says "This can happen everywhere" Yes it can but not that much often like here in Egypt.

andy_29 wrote:

...the Egyptians don't need ur western work ethics. What collapse man? Intact the Europeans economis are the ones collapsing now if u know what u r talking about. So they don't need ur values or ur work ethics

Do you know which is the difference between a salary in an Egyptian company and a multinational company for an Egyptian employee? ( payment is one of the work ethics) I hope you understand what I mean.
And European economics collapsed because they existed, something that doesn t exist, cannot collapse

valibilic wrote:

Westerns are PYRAMIDS VISITORS

thank you what a respectful response I appreciate it.
The Great Pyramid is not going to collapse if people stopped to visit it but from Egyptologist eyes I can tell, it will preserve it more and that is why only 100 allowed to get in the pyramid daily.

can you implement the same idea about Egypt, as westerns are not Egypt builders *  but only Egypt visitors
Egypt is being built by the hands of Egyptians.

Egypt is not going to collapse without you **

I agree with you about the admins are really happy now. I hope they are not going to delete this thread as the other one. They should compensate us with more posts counts of the delete ones. we got their backs while they were sleeping

---------
* (as some people think, I do not imply to anyone here).
** my words are not directed to anyone. Cheer up you are safe

andy_29 wrote:

@snow r u serious?! Lol ban me for what? Speaking my mind and defending the Egyptian ppl

defending? hahaha
I though your way is defending only yourself and spit on everyone else

andy_29 wrote:

Again to guissipe the Egyptians don't need ur western work ethics. What collapse man? Intact the Europeans economis are the ones collapsing now if u know what u r talking about. So they don't need ur values or ur work ethics

Egypt was never high as Europe and even when European economy collapsed its still way higher then Egyptian.


@mnas
You talk bull*** man.You want to talk whats fair and whats not?
Do you think it is fair for an egyptian man to get a green card to USA and then help all of his members of the family(big number) to move to the USA and live-work there?They also taking jobs from an American people,so i think its pretty fair for other to come and work here in Egypt.

mnas wrote:

Plus who is illegally working here, should be deported Am I right?

Do you ever think how many illegally working arabs is in Europe?
Go visit vine fields in france,just to see the shocking number..
and a one bed room flat with 8 men inside.

ukr.dev85 wrote:

About harrasments even boring to speak, because it is too much in Egypt. Andy_29 was right, when told that it is an egyptian culture (and he told it about all muslim word), so all of us can see what is Egypt now. He teached us how to wear. Have you ever seen egyptian girls in hejab sitting at nights with boys and hugging each other?! If no, you can see it every day in Zamalek behind Hilton hotel in cornishe. There you can see real egyptian culture - muslim girls and boys who are speaking a lot about their's culture and religion, sitting there by huggings, kiss each other in the cars...
I am pregnant now and 2 weeks ago some gyus (4 ppl +1 was in the car) come around me and my husband near Nadi Il Shams. They kept in hands smth like swords, they bite my hussband with that and took my bag, where were my passpot, money, cards, driver license etc.... After this bleeding startered and was at the hospital!
To the one who says "This can happen everywhere" Yes it can but not that much often like here in Egypt.

Let s not exaggerate, Egyptian people are very kind,welcoming,  helpful and honest. I was helped by people when it was stolen my handbag , in the last day of Ramadan. In another country maybe nobody care.
About the young people, that hug and kiss, it is normal for their age, and I don t have anything against this!
We cannot judge a whole nation for less than 1% that s not nice, and  in addition, Andy doesn t represent the whole Egyptian nation... he is maybe sad seeing our complaining. Really I appreciate some of his opinions!

Dear Valibilic, how did they help you? I am just curious! Did they turn back to you bag? While around us where that 4 gyus I run to the road to stop any car, which were passing us and could see what is going on (there were a lot), but NOBODY NOBODY stopped. Only, when gyus left us with my bag, ppl stopped and asked what happened. And only thing what they say in this situatin "Il hamdulallah" Is it help? People in Egypt, when they see some troubles happened to others, they just like to look at it. They need more only pop corn like in the cinema to have more fun!
Of course there are some exceptions. BUT EXCEPTION CONFIRMS THE RULE!
About young ppl which hug and kiss each other. If they do like this, so don;t speak then about religion too much, rules of conduct and how to dress. Every day we can see here a lot of examples that egyptians just try to show theirs outside from best side, but inside thay are totally opposite.
I don't want to say that all ppl here are like this, but unfortunately too much. And I don't want to say that in other countries there are only good ppl, but they are much more.

andy-29
yes ?
yes YOU think YOU are the only one allowed to express your opinions,YOU have a very small brain in a very big head YOU need to see a shrink.

I re open this discussion. Please offensive comments are not welcome! We will not hesitate to moderate.

Thank you.

Hi There,

We are a family who is considering moving to Cairo in January! My wife found a job in a school in Maadi.
I am a bit worried about the stability of the country and the coming elections. We were shocked  by the riots between Muslims and Copts (I'am Muslim and my wife Catholic). I don't like to give to much credit to medias... I prefer to have people's point of view... Can you tell me about the current situation?
Tx

Ali

andy_29 wrote:

I don't think foreigners should come here and change the country and impose thier western values. It's just different guys and u knew it before u came here so stop moaning and get on with it or bug off. Nough said

Said the guy who asked my Expat wife - another member on the forum who clearly states in her profile that she is married - to meet for a "drink" in a private message !!!


Shame on you for your hypocrisy

mnas wrote:

and that is why only 100 allowed to get in the pyramid daily.

off topic, but I was there last weekend, and there were thousands (not just hundreds) of people. From where did you get this piece of information?

MALIH wrote:

Hi There,

We are a family who is considering moving to Cairo in January! My wife found a job in a school in Maadi.
I am a bit worried about the stability of the country and the coming elections. We were shocked  by the riots between Muslims and Copts (I'am Muslim and my wife Catholic). I don't like to give to much credit to medias... I prefer to have people's point of view... Can you tell me about the current situation?
Tx

Ali

Malih, I am Muslim and my wife is Christian (Orthodox) and she was joking about this (she told me in the light of the current event, why we don't fight LOL?) ..... This whole "sectarian violence" thing is blown out of proportion and is a Government's/Junta's way of staying illegitimately in charge and delaying elections ........

My wife is an Expat also. If you need you and/or your wife can speak to her directly and she'll tell you the truth. Media blows everything out of proportion




I don't want to sound all corny and news-papery ! .... but when I had a heart attack about a month ago, my christian neighbors - whom I did not have any contact with before the incident, or any other neighbors - were the ones who took me to the hospital (25 KM drive) .... There is no Muslim-vs.-Christian war going on here ........