Maadi Sexual Harassment

Dear Burnside,

Thanks a lot for sharing this important information. I guess everyone has to update their assumptions regarding safety all over the city. Also it is hard to reach reliable information. Some friends claim Maadi is still very safe, mostly because they want to see it in this way and it may be hard to accept new realities.

Best

you can say that again! and Purse Snatching has been reported a lot of time.

zamalek is da best place for foreigners

Good morning to all!
You have right, Burnside, but this happens all around Cairo, these days. Every year I am attached, my handbag was cut and my purse stolen last year in Maadi, I was attached in the last day of Ramadan at 9 pm, this time not in Maadi, the number of thieves is bigger now, Zamalek anyway could be little safer !
Just I want to ask you how old are you and where are you now, for my curiosity, because IN YOUR PROFILE it is written you re in Scotland, not expatriate yet, and you re born in 1931, so it means you re 80 years old?

I live in degla for long time and i love this area:lol:. There'r hundred areas much warse and dangerous:(. Maadi is really safe. But belive me everybody,who walk at night in a country without president ll hardly find safety. Maadi close to everywhere,here carefour:D,saudi:D,metro:D,grandmall:D,everything around my house. I really did t see a better place in cairo,than where i'm living. New cairo is empty,heliopolis,nasr sity i did't like at all. I'll try to drive to zamalek than compare better.

u may be right and may be its  a spam

Maliena wrote:

But belive me everybody,who walk at night in a country without president ll hardly find safety.

it is not about the president.

you need a car in Maadi and I recommend Garden City and Dokki.

Maliena wrote:

But belive me everybody,who walk at night in a country without president ll hardly find safety. .

No offense but are you implying that Hosny Mubarak was the Egyptian Batman who saved poor citizens who were getting mugged in the back alleys, and now that he's gone, muggers can do whatever they please because Batman is behind bars?

It requires real imagination and creativity to misunderstand something like that. I am sure that our friend did not mean anything like that. Please, some common sense...

I am a real human (I just don't share my personal info on the internet) and most of these attacks happen during the daylight hours.  They have become highly frequent in Maadi, especially Degla.
Every weekend I speak to Maadi friends and they have new stories of abuse. 
Even before the revolution, Medan Degla was a bit of a chav Mecca.  There were always privileged boys in their mum's cars zooming around, trying to knock someone over. 
I really don't know how you have Careforue, (Not really worth the taxi ride) Metro, Saudi and Grand Mall on your doorstep (why are these places sited as highlights??).  This is geographically impossible, unless you have a tardass. 
If you attempt to visit Carefour by taxi, you will be ripped off by horrible taxi drivers (it should be about 15le max from Degla, not 30le) 
I have no idea why anyone would ever want to visit Grand Mall, but hey, what else is there to do?
Maadi is the new 'Garbage City' 
Yes, true, there are many other places worse than Maadi: Sunderland, Easter House, Hull, Hell, Salford, Favalas, the sides of train tracks in India with bit of tarpaulin, but the rent in those locations is not usually advertised in USD.

Hi, it looks like you are here just to complain before even become resident .Every country is having its own good and bad and those who are living should know the custom,safety aspects ,dangerous locations etc.

Please stay back in Scotland and this is just Africa continent,try to compare with Nigeria and D.R.Congo,you will appreciate Egypt and Cairo

rajpal4 wrote:

try to compare with Nigeria and D.R.Congo,you will appreciate Egypt and Cairo

+1

Just few weeks ago, two "gentlemen" introduced themselves as policemen and they tried to kidnap me at 10.00 am.
So I believe you Burnside.

For all those that don't like your post, I can tell that many of  my  Egyptian colleagues are already to the point: "it was better when it was worse".
Yes, Mubarak-Batman is behind the bars and...? Outside there is full of Jokers.
Watch your back...
Giuseppe

rajpal4 wrote:

Hi, it looks like you are here just to complain before even become resident .Every country is having its own good and bad and those who are living should know the custom,safety aspects ,dangerous locations etc.

Please stay back in Scotland and this is just Africa continent,try to compare with Nigeria and D.R.Congo,you will appreciate Egypt and Cairo

Did i hear right?? should we not complain about sexual herrasment and go back to our countries??? And do we have to compare Egypt with Nigeria or Congo? Why do we not accept that it is just wrong and try to change this?

Of course after reading these words I imagine that you have never been sexually herrast.

Burnside, I think it is good that you brought up this subject as it is a real problem and it happens quite too much.

Salaam

My wife went out for a walk in Rehab yesterday. I was shocked when she told me she was followed by three different cars for three times. She was really scared when she told me about this. Btw this was in broad daylight (between 12 noon and 2 PM)

Apparently some people now don't fear nothing or no one and apparently the contagion has arrived at upscale neighborhoods (like Maadi) and suburbs (like Rehab) .... This is really new. Before I'd expect this to happen downtown or at some other place.


I think women should start walking around with electric tasers or mace spray. It's just sad that a woman cannot enjoy a walk in the  daylight without being scared of predators !

@The Egyptian and @Chocolata. Thanks for sharing. This is really bad.

@rajpal4 : be careful with what you said. We're in the forum to exchange information. Some of Egyptians may be think that expatriates always criticize. It's not true. We came here “for you”. We create jobs, employ locals from the low until high level education. Are you sure that we have to go back to our countries each time we say something that you consider as a critic ? Besides, critic is not always bad. You can see it as a positive one. You guys need to be strong to bring back your country into glory. We need to work together to create a safe town and safe country.

indobe wrote:

@The Egyptian and @Chocolata. Thanks for sharing. This is really bad.

@rajpal4 : be careful with what you said. We're in the forum to exchange information. Some of Egyptians may be think that expatriates always criticize. It's not true. We came here “for you”. We create jobs, employ locals from the low until high level education. Are you sure that we have to go back to our countries each time we say something that you consider as a critic ? Besides, critic is not always bad. You can see it as a positive one. You guys need to be strong to bring back your country into glory. We need to work together to create a safe town and safe country.

Rajpal is not even Egyptian, indobe ....

@Egyptian. Ah, yes. You're right. LOL !

Wow some serious conversations here...

Absolutely it's worth warning people about places where you've been attacked, but also worth bearing in mind this doesn't happen all the time and did happen pre-revolution too. Maybe it's more common now, or maybe it's just more widely spoken about, I don't know as I can't speak from bad experience (thankfully!)
Anyone has a right to criticise the place they live in as long as it serves a good purpose and isn't just an excuse to moan

From my experience, I've had verbal harrassment in Korba/Heliopolis a few times in the last few months, which I wouldn't expect in a supposedly safe area, but then I go out more than I used to... My sympathy goes out to anyone who's been attacked or harrassed, it's really horrible!

So, especially us girls, it's best to stay safe, stick with a friend or two when out and about, dress sensitively, carry some pepper spray/taser and minimal valuables, keep handbags close on your person.

btw anyone know where I can get a taser? :p

Elaine

Its not about maadi or rehab(the most safe places from my point of view b4 reading all ur comments)  its about all around the country now
So just take good care while walking alone
And respect the dress code(although it doesn't matter nowadays)

Be safe every one!

eltviola wrote:

btw anyone know where I can get a taser? :p

Elaine

send me a private message and I can help you with this ....

Look at harassmap.org if u wanna get info about the worst locations.

But for sure, as a women in this country, you have to respect certain rules to be safe, sad but it's like this

I find this sort of funny, i sort of suspect not one woman on here can say she was never followed in her home country by a guy.

This is not a new thing its been happening forever here, you should also take note it routinely happens to all females of every nationality.

Shorouk wrote:

I find this sort of funny, i sort of suspect not one woman on here can say she was never followed in her home country by a guy.

This is not a new thing its been happening forever here, you should also take note it routinely happens to all females of every nationality.

Being followed is one thing. Being grabbed/touched is another.

P.S: I am 100% Egyptian and have been living here for all of my life .....

rajpal4 wrote:

Hi, it looks like you are here just to complain before even become resident .Every country is having its own good and bad and those who are living should know the custom,safety aspects ,dangerous locations etc.

Please stay back in Scotland and this is just Africa continent,try to compare with Nigeria and D.R.Congo,you will appreciate Egypt and Cairo

I see you used the word 'custom'  are you saying that sexual aggression is custom in Egypt?

Maadi is marketed as a 'safe location' and people have chosen to pay a bit more to live there for that very reason. 

I don't believe in lowering expectations according to race or nationality.  I happen to know that Egyptian woman have had enough of this and are not willing to tolerate it any longer.

I also know from experience that sexual aggression is a problem in India, where women are not allowed their independence.  I know this because I visited the home of an Indian woman in Deli, who helps to set up support groups so that women can break free from cycles of abuse. 

Oops!

Did I say too much?

There is now a website (set up by Egyptian women) called harrassmap. 

You can report incidents as they happen.  This forces there to be a log kept and therefore a case for action.  It cannot be ignored and they (those in denial for whatever reason) cannot say that it doesn't exist. 

If you report any of these guys to the police and the police try to put you off, they might ask 'Do you want to ruin this man's life?  He has a family!'

From now on my answer is 'With pleasure.'

Shorouk wrote:

I find this sort of funny, i sort of suspect not one woman on here can say she was never followed in her home country by a guy.

This is not a new thing its been happening forever here, you should also take note it routinely happens to all females of every nationality.

I'm not sure why you find sexual intimidation of women and minors funny, but hey, whatever floats your boat. 

Actually, there are countries where men generally have to respect woman.  In UK we have a sex offender's register.  It's called 'List 99' and if your name is on it, you often have to declare this in a job interview. 

Regardless of your qualifications and experience, having to say:

'Well I followed a 14 year old girl in my car"

will guarantee that you won't get the job. 

Murder, racism, extortion etc have also been happening forever, everywhere.  Are you saying that because it's been happening for a long time we should keep schtum and accept it? 

I don't think anyone at any point has claimed that it happens to a particular nationality or group.  So where did that idea come from?  Your imagination?  Your own expectations?  Your own prejudices? 

This post is meant as a warning to women in Maadi.  Not to white women in Maadi, or unveiled women.  To women. 

Maybe men should also take heed.  There are women in your family after all.  Be responsible, eh?

mprier wrote:

Look at harassmap.org if u wanna get info about the worst locations.

But for sure, as a women in this country, you have to respect certain rules to be safe, sad but it's like this

I'm usually wearing a long shirt and baggy pants when all this goes on.

Just saying.

The Egyptian wrote:

eltviola wrote:

btw anyone know where I can get a taser? :p

Elaine

send me a private message and I can help you with this ....

Please don't start using weapons.

They can be turned against you, causing you more danger.  Keeping out of quiet roads and making sure you scream when someone bothers you is better than starting a street fight, which, if you are weaker, you will probably lose.

If you know how to use num chucks on the other hand, go for it.  It's very hard to turn them on you unless the attacker is trained.

Shorouk wrote:

I find this sort of funny, i sort of suspect not one woman on here can say she was never followed in her home country by a guy.

This is not a new thing its been happening forever here, you should also take note it routinely happens to all females of every nationality.

I wonder if you had a daughter here and she experienced these sort of problems, would you find that funny???

My partner also feels uneasy and has been taunted many times whilst wearing SAFE clothing and this has been unique here!!!!

actually i would not find it funny,and would deal with the person directly.I have never allowed this type of thing to take place in my home country or would i allow it here with either my wife or daughter both of whom are egytain.

The females and families of these ladies need to take a stand and begin to take their country and rights back.

what i find funny is your writing this and some of the issues then spoke of are really common or very minor in nature.

Actually, there are countries where men generally have to respect woman.  In UK we have a sex offender's register.  It's called 'List 99' and if your name is on it, you often have to declare this in a job interview.

I also find this sort of funny sounds like the men here have not been taught to be respectful of women. which is again not near to the truth.

I dont let my 14 year old walk the street alone here,and she understands if she does many will assume she is a street walker looking for work!

respectful ladies try never to walk alone in the streets here,and when they are forced to they understand that how they move,where they walk and or even a glancing look from them is and open inventatiation to abuse of this type as you have already labled yourself a working street walker and this i find sort of funny also.

many of the real working girls are also completely covererd.

not mentioning or understanding the cultural elements related to this issue allows one to question your motives.

It is or will be a good thing when the ladies of egypt begin the process of honest discovery and implement the needed change or adjustment at a level where is can begin to change the cultural aspects of this issue.

Burnside wrote:

The Egyptian wrote:

eltviola wrote:

btw anyone know where I can get a taser? :p

Elaine

send me a private message and I can help you with this ....

Please don't start using weapons.

They can be turned against you, causing you more danger.  Keeping out of quiet roads and making sure you scream when someone bothers you is better than starting a street fight, which, if you are weaker, you will probably lose.

If you know how to use num chucks on the other hand, go for it.  It's very hard to turn them on you unless the attacker is trained.

don't worry, I was only kidding. I don't like weapons, I absolutely agree that it makes it more likely that you or someone else will get hurt and it makes you more paranoid and defensive when walking along. Nunchucks are a bit beyond me... :p

Shorouk, "The females and families of these ladies need to take a stand and begin to take their country and rights back." absolutely right!

But do you really mean this?!
"respectful ladies try never to walk alone in the streets here,and when they are forced to they understand that how they move,where they walk and or even a glancing look from them is and open inventatiation to abuse of this type as you have already labled yourself a working street walker and this i find sort of funny also."

I assume by 'working street walker' you mean prostitute? Are you really saying that women deserve harrassment because they have no respect for themselves if they dare to walk alone (or even with a female/male friend, as has happened to me) as they are branding themselves a prostitute? This is really offensive if so, and I hope I've just misunderstood your point

Women should have every right to walk alone and feel safe here; we aren't in Saudi Arabia (no offence meant to anyone from Saudi, but women have no rights there). Egypt has a real chance of being a great place (perhaps I should say 'even greater' ) if we can tackle these issues.

I understand that many uneducated men may mistake a glance for an invitation, and I always try to avoid that kind of body language, but equally one can give no 'invitation' at all and still get harrassed. For men (the harrassers I mean) to make assumptions like this about random women they pass on the street shows that they are ignorant and desperate and need to be taught a lesson. Maybe it's human psychology (whether male or female) try to compensate one's own weaknesses by attacking or belittling another whom they perceive as weak, and that's all they are doing

This kind of thing needs to be brought to the surface, exposed and faced up to, not accepted as the status quo. It does happen  in every country, of course, but I'm happy for the countries that have a good system to protect people, where it is reported & dealt with. I hope that this minority of men (as most are fairly respectful of women) who cause trouble in Egypt will learn in time that this is wrong, but it's up to us women to show them the error of their ways if we can, without deliberately putting ourselves in danger of course

Being an ex  sel defence instructor for 10 years, which I can't teach anymore due to an injury  I'm always aware of my surroundings and my personal belongings. Yes there's been a rise on attacks here but I'm sure this happens in  most countries who go thru an uprising . Attacks and sexual harassment can happen anywhere at anytime to anyone in any country  , male or female . This is the world we live in .Attacks on men are on the increase not just on women . It's a matter of being aware of not getting complacent and thinking I'm walking in a safe place , because really it's a shame to say but attacks can happen anywhere .eg Rehab !! So stay alert and keep your belongings that you don't need at home . And if you find yourself in a bad situation use your voice ., scream, shout .if being groped . maybe carry an alarm or spray use a small waist bag instead of a handbag under a jacket . Maybe look at self defence classes.,as it isnt always the answer but makes you more alert to situations . Personally I haven't had any really bad situations here ., but I've been out of Egypt for month and due to return shortly , so I'm wondering if it's deteriorated even more . But anyway I just wanted to share so take care EVERYONE

Sofie7 wrote:

Being an ex  sel defence instructor for 10 years, which I can't teach anymore due to an injury  I'm always aware of my surroundings and my personal belongings. Yes there's been a rise on attacks here but I'm sure this happens in  most countries who go thru an uprising . Attacks and sexual harassment can happen anywhere at anytime to anyone in any country  , male or female . This is the world we live in .Attacks on men are on the increase not just on women . It's a matter of being aware of not getting complacent and thinking I'm walking in a safe place , because really it's a shame to say but attacks can happen anywhere .eg Rehab !! So stay alert and keep your belongings that you don't need at home . And if you find yourself in a bad situation use your voice ., scream, shout .if being groped . maybe carry an alarm or spray use a small waist bag instead of a handbag under a jacket . Maybe look at self defence classes.,as it isnt always the answer but makes you more alert to situations . Personally I haven't had any really bad situations here ., but I've been out of Egypt for month and due to return shortly , so I'm wondering if it's deteriorated even more . But anyway I just wanted to share so take care EVERYONE

agreed with you  100%

so sorry but what you are saying its not true>>
           
         its fake>>>>>

Soy Adam wrote:

so sorry but what you are saying its not true>>
           
         its fake>>>>>

and that reply is based on ..... ?

I have lived in Egypt for a long time.  I have lived in Zamalek and now I live in Maadi.

I am 50 years old and no one with half a brain could ever mistake me for a street walker.  I wear long sleeves and long pants and nothing on me is tight.

And yet I get harassed all the time, and not just in Maadi.  I have been here for years, and frankly, I'm getting tired of it.  Of course it is worse now, every woman who has lived here for more than a year can tell the difference from pre-revolution, when there was a lid on the simmering violence and frustration of over 30 years of oppression.  I say over 30 because Egypt has been oppressed since Nasser, when the people traded political agency for security.

I love this country, and I love the people.  But what to do?  What you wear makes absolutely no difference at all, because IT'S NOT ABOUT US WOMEN - it's about the men and boys who have no consequences for their actions.

I still feel safe in Maadi, but I watch my back.  My husband saw a guy reach into the metro car the other day and try to take a mobile phone right out of the hand of a young girl in broad daylight.

People are frustrated, poor, jobless, there is no viable police force, the army appears both impotent and power-hungry so it's business as usual but without the control of pre-revolution.

Maybe it has to get worse before it gets better, I don't know. 

For that moron who says respectable women don't walk at night I ask you WHY NOT?

IF THE STREETS ARE NOT SAFE FOR WOMEN AT NIGHT then the obvious solution is to keep the men locked up at night since they are the ones making it unsafe for us women, some of whom have afternoon work/school/appointments that end after dark and have to take the metro home.

It's attitudes like that that perpetuate the status quo.

I fully agree with all of your comments, it makes no difference what you wear, and the moron you refer to is exactly that.
The problem is with the men, and the disrespectful way they are conditioned, in school, at home and by their peers. 
I teach male Egyptian 17 year olds and I am amazed by their comments my favorite of which is " women have small brains, they can't be as smart as men"
Scarily they really believe this.....it will take decades to retrain their thought processes, but it won't happen as they don't think they have a problem in the first place




http://irisheyesoncairo.wordpress.com/

last two comments spot on.