Smoking in Bulgaria

@TonyFF

Probably better off sticking to more civilised places then.

@TonyFF Let Bulgaria be Bulgaria - uk used to be quite free, but the start of the obvious control included stopping smoking in pubs, it's the wrong road to go down; governments telling citizens what they can do, can't do and giving punishments for not obeying. And now, people too scared to talk about certain subjects, accept being filmed wherever they go, pay fines for doing things that the elitists decide they don't want them to do. Very very sad.

    @TonyFF Let Bulgaria be Bulgaria - uk used to be quite free, but the start of the obvious control included stopping smoking in pubs, it's the wrong road to go down; governments telling citizens what they can do, can't do and giving punishments for not obeying. And now, people too scared to talk about certain subjects, accept being filmed wherever they go, pay fines for doing things that the elitists decide they don't want them to do. Very very sad.
   

    -@buckleyps

Really?  Governments/rulers in every country have been "telling citizens what they can do, can't do and giving punishments for not obeying" for thousands of years - I'm surprised that you have apparently only just noticed....

The real problem nowadays is that too many people think that they know better, that internet conspiracy theories are all true, and that every chav and chavette has an inalienable right to behave as appallingly as they like without anyone reining them in.  Most governments today aren't too restrictive and elitist, they're actually too pusillanimous and permissive - if people have no self-discipline or sense of decorum, then they need to have the virtues that our forefathers took for granted imposed on them..

@buckleyps

Unfortunately your argument is basically saying that there should be no laws. That leads to a significant percentage of people who have no regard for others doing what they want, regardless of the consequences to those around them.

Smoking in a public but confined space, like a cafe or bar, means those who'd rather no be exposed to smoke either have to passive smoke, or stay home. 

It's comparable to people speeding through a school zone if they feel like it. People driving though red lights if they feel like it. People stabbing other people if they feel like it. Kids throwing rocks at passing cars if they feel like it.

Oh, wait on, I think I just described most UK cities!

@buckleyps

I agree with JimJ and janemulberry.

My personal opinion : there is nothing wrong with a government that tries to promote healthy living. This is not control over the people. The less people smoke the healthier the nation will be.

And yes, we do not live in anarchy ( believe me Bulgaria has laws like every country).

We need law and order.  It may be difficult for anyone to live in Bulgaria if he/she  has a distorted understanding of the latter.

@JimJ no, I didn't notice because I haven't been alive for thousands of years, but I have heard and read that the elitists have been controlling for many many years, but I don't see why we just must therefore put up with it.

@TonyFF it seems that the more governing bodies want to look after our health, the unhealthier we become - cancer in my youth was almost unheard of, I remember it climbing to 1 in 15, now its 1 in 2 will have it, yet trillions have gone into research.  Smoking is at an all time low in younger generations, great! but childhood leukemia and cancers have increased - so, what is happening.

Talking about exchange rates when I first visited Bulgaria in about 1997/ 98 I went to Borovets , hated skiing but fell for Bulgaria big time. Before I came I was told that the rate was 1 lev to the pound. When I arrived I got 63 lev's to the pound!!! From the bank in the hotel basement.

    Talking about exchange rates when I first visited Bulgaria in about 1997/ 98 I went to Borovets , hated skiing but fell for Bulgaria big time. Before I came I was told that the rate was 1 lev to the pound. When I arrived I got 63 lev's to the pound!!! From the bank in the hotel basement.
   

    -@Kath948381

Goodness! Imagine if it was that now? We'd all be rich!

    @TonyFF it seems that the more governing bodies want to look after our health, the unhealthier we become - cancer in my youth was almost unheard of, I remember it climbing to 1 in 15, now its 1 in 2 will have it, yet trillions have gone into research.  Smoking is at an all time low in younger generations, great! but childhood leukemia and cancers have increased - so, what is happening.
   

    -@buckleyps

What is happening should be obvious to anyone who cares to give the question a bit of thought:

People are living longer, so more of us will live long enough to die of/with cancer than in previous generations.

Despite living longer, thanks to medical advances, our lifestyles have in many cases deteriorated: when you were younger how many of today's obese beached-whale types did you see on the beach or queuing up outside Greggs?

Diagnostics have greatly improved, so cancers that would have previously gone undiagnosed are now being caught.  This can make it appear that the situation is getting worse, when in actual fact things are much the same as they were - or even better nowadays than in the past.

Unfortunately, we're also reaping the rewards of all the pollution that was released into the atmosphere and environment in the last century, along with the poor choices many people made in terms of lifestyle and food.  Some of us are convinced that wearing tin-foil hats will help us to lead longer and more healthy lives - they may even be right, but something's gonna get us all one day.....

@janemulberry

It was absolute hell for people in those days - my wife and her then-husband lost every stotinka of their life's savings a couple of times; when they eventually managed to buy a three-room apartment (with a mortgage) it cost 1.5 MILLION leva.  She still owns it, but it's worth a LOT less than that now...

Yes, the exchange rate was unreal  but it was due to the high inflation .

For western tourists It was  very cheap to visit Bulgaria.

@buckleyps

You appear to be a fan of David Icke ....My wife and I saw one of his shows in San Rafael, California a few years back. He talked non-stop for 6 plus hours!!!

Quite  an entertaining character........

@JimJ

I am so sorry. My comment was selfish, I didn't consider how horrendous that period must have been for Bulgarians.

And I agree completely with your comment on all the other changes contributing to the rising cancer rate. The world is a far more polluted place now, in so many ways, and a longer lifespan inevitably leads to a higher rate of cancers and chronic illnesses. Parents didn't have to worry about childhood leukaemia rates back when 25% of children died before the age of five from infections!

@janemulberry

It's interesting that you mention Leukaemia - my wife's brother died of that when he was 17 (he would have been in his 70s now).  There was no chemotherapy treatment available in Bulgaria then, unless your parents were at the very least Party members and preferably in the nomenklatura.

The people running the system then are still alive, and mostly rich "businessmen" - the culture of impunity which continues to protect them and the heirs to their stolen riches is the same one that renders Putin untouchable and the West impotent.  Either our leaders are incapable of learning from the mistakes of the past or the Tin-foil Hat brigade may be on the right track...

@JimJ

Healthcare in Bulgaria has definitely improved. Unfortunately still lagging behind in comparison to most scandinavian countries, Switzerland and  the USA. My wife and I are lucky to have a  very low cost US insurance.Even if we live permanently in Bulgaria we have plan B for a serious illness management. I have the mandatory Bulgarian insurance for foreigners.( even though my US one has unlimited international emergency coverage).

If we want to see any MD in Bulgaria we will pay cash. Access to healthcare is very good in Bulgaria.

see above

@JimJ

That is tragic, and so wrong!

I only used leukaemia as an example because one of the pro-smoker's rights commenters mentioned it in his reasons for why smokers should be able to smoke in enclosed public spaces.

@TonyFF

Emergency coverage is a completely different kettle of fish to having proper access to the health system for routine treatment and elective procedures. Both your policies are for emergency (or repatriation) only. I don't believe that it is a recommendable way to address your healthcare coverage. In particular, the mandatory policy you mention is solely to keep immigration happy when you're applying for permits... in my view, it's pretty much worthless in terms of actual healthcare. You're fortunate that you're relatively well off and you can afford to pay cash, so you don't need to stress over it.

However, I believe that you're one of the lucky non-EU citizens who is "economically inactive" (i.e. excluded as not working), but can still get covered. That's because you're married to a Bulgarian citizen. So it seems a pity not to take advantage of your good fortune. :-)

I too mostly pay cash at one of my local private hospitals (Medline and Pulmed in Plovdiv, or, if I need a bigger place I go to Tokuda in Sofia). But we're also covered in the Bulgarian public health system.

The rate is just under 40 leva per month per person (i.e. about $500 a year for a couple).

This entitles us to free or nearly-free treatment in any public hospital. As most private hospitals are also affiliated with this system, it means we can get private treatment for a small payment (it varies, but let's say it's 95% ish subsidized).

And we have EHICs for use when we are staying in other EU countries.

As we are in the system, we can register with a local GP. We have a very good one at Medline.

You're right that consultation fees and routine scans are very cheap here. Say 25 lv-100 lv for most specialists (vs. 5 or less if you're referred by your GP). X-rays are 50-odd and MRI is a few hundred and blood test is 100 lv... but all are pretty much free if your GP thinks it's necessary.

Even an operation is amazingly cheap compared to the USA. A hip replacement is a few thousand euros. A vertebroplasty  is a couple of grand. If you're covered, then a public hospital would do them for free, and a private hospital might charge a couple of hundred bucks for the op and your private room / VIP treatment.

This private/public aspect is something I have not seen elsewhere. The UK, for example, has free, slow, NHS treatment... or full-price private treatment (if you don't want to wait 6+ months). A routine but common seniors' operation is the hip replacement, and the NHS waiting list can be years for this. A BUPA hospital will do it in the next month or two for 15k-20k. In Bulgaria, you could walk (or limp) into Tokuda tomorrow, and get your THR later this week. And pay less than $500 for the privilege.

    @JimJ
Healthcare in Bulgaria has definitely improved. Unfortunately still lagging behind in comparison to most scandinavian countries, Switzerland and  the USA. My wife and I are lucky to have a  very low cost US insurance.Even if we live permanently in Bulgaria we have plan B for a serious illness management. I have the mandatory Bulgarian insurance for foreigners.( even though my US one has unlimited international emergency coverage).
If we want to see any MD in Bulgaria we will pay cash. Access to healthcare is very good in Bulgaria.
   

    -@TonyFF

Yes, having lived here for 20 years the changes in the healthcare sector, and elsewhere, haven't escaped my notice. We're in the Balkans - many things here aren't on a par with "Scandinavia, Switzerland or the US". Since you're apparently intending to retire here (at least when you're not telling us all why you aren't intending to ) there must be SOME factors which you find more attractive than in the countries you mention. I imagine that your money - at least for the time being - going further is one of those factors.

Your right to say that "access to healthcare is good" and fortunately private healthcare is less expensive than in most of the rest of Europe. However all that glisters is not gold: my in-laws are both in their 80s and I'm not far behind them. I can tell you from personal experience that healthcare here is nowhere near as good as the brochures and websites of the private providers like to paint it. One of the major problems is that nurses are paid much better in other countries and there is a permanent shortage of good ones here. We paid for my father-in-law to be treated in one of the best hospitals in the country when he was seriously ill last year; we were shocked to discover that they had no nurses, or any other staff, to deal with the patients' "toilet needs" and that family members were expected to change the patient's "diapers" and clean them up. The hospital was totally unable to hire nurses to deal with this very basic  function, even though they were offering salaries of 3,000 leva a month (more than a university professor earns here!). There was even a "Shock-Horror" report on TV about the situation. I got to know my father-in-law better than either of us really felt comfortable with.

I believe that I've mentioned the "unit for unit" system of blood donation in Bulgaria previously - you'd better have some young and healthy friends handy if you find yourself in hospital, or enough cash to pay the ethnic "Blood Mafia" their going rate (250 leva a unit last year but inflation affects the price of everything these days..)

@JimJ

I totally agree. That is why I said that the healthcare is not that great in Bulgaria. My mother in America is in assisted living housing. It is quite a posh place ( ridiculously prices even for America; luckily she has funds from the sale of her  huge house; also she has 5 sons to help if needed:) The staff with do anything for her- assist with personal care, medications ;  she is always clean, groomed, fed well, the place has constant activities : she can have a massage, do yoga, exercise, there is hair salon; entertainment. There are volunteers that bring pets for the elderly to enjoy. Volunteers come and have concerts etc.The place smells clean not like death. No such care exists in Bulgaria.

Re. my plans- everything is fluid.We might stay permanently in Bulgaria or not. We need  to make arrangements for my Bulgarian mother-in-law. She needs a respectable care at the end of her life as well.

@TonyFF

There are a couple of pretty good Care Homes in Sofia (and elsewhere) now; I have no personal experience of them, so I can't recommend them but some of my wife's colleagues have their parents there and speak quite highly of them.  The best(?) is serdika(dot)org

@gwynj

I am glad that you are happy with the Bulgarian healthcare.

My wife and I are very healthy.We are slim, we exercise daily, we eat healthy, we take supplements, we  rest well every day. We both see our doctor once a year for routine care. No prescribed medications ( not needed). We have excellent comprehensive US insurance( including worldwide emergency care). Why bother getting  a Bulgarian insurance? We do not need hip, knee replacements, heart surgeries:)  We will be in Bulgaria for 1 full year( for now) to explore and decide what is best for us. If we stay- we might consider paying for a comprehensive coverage.  We saw our dentist last week, had physicals this month, updated our glasses. We can schedule video appointments with our primary MD no matter where we are in the world. Based on her recommendations we can see  Bulgarian MDs if needed. So this is the plan.

@JimJ agree with what you say, but I was referring to younger getting cancers, mental health problems and blood disorders, it is obvious that as we live longer, we will see rises in certain illnesses in the elderly.

@janemulberry I didn't for one moment say there should be no laws, just sensible ones. If someone doesn't like a smoky bar, go to another one (there used to be smokers bars/cafes and non smoking ones in UK and france). Why on earth would someone speed through a school area - speed limit or no speed limit ??  Are we taking for granted that all people have no good will??

@buckleyps

Not all people, no, of course not! But from what I see around me in the UK, sadly quite a significant proportion of people don't display any sense of responsibility toward those around them.  It's become an "if you can get away with it, do it!" society. Which includes the habit of many Bulgarians and Brits in Bulgaria of smoking around non-smokers in a bar or restaurant that is supposed to be smoke free. Because it's not policed, they do it regardless of those around them.

The significant rise in childhood illness rates is concerning for sure. Partly, similar to the rise of adult life expectancy meaning more chronic illnesses and cancers, due to fewer kids now dying young from other causes. And there's plenty of research supporting the theory that it has a lot to do with the massive increase in exposure to pollution, chemicals, and other factors. Which for the main type of childhood leukaemia, includes parental smoking -- the correlation is seen when the father smoked before and during the pregnancy. Oddly, maternal smoking doesn't appear to be a factor for childhood leukaemia, though there's a significant correlation between maternal smoking during pregnancy and kids breathing other peoples' cigarette smoke for plenty of other child health issues, including asthma, allergies, sudden infant death, ADHD, and even heart disease as an older adult.

Which is not to say those who want to smoke shouldn't have that right. But there's a need for more consideration about where they smoke and who they're exposing to their smoke. Non-smokers also have the right to choose not to passively smoke. The village my house is in only has one cafe-bar. Many village social events are held there. Choosing to "go to another one" isn't an option.

@JimJ

I will check it out - thanks!

@janemulberry so don't go to the bar! To think that our governments and big corporations spent billions on encouraging everyone to smoke back in the day so that they could make zillions of dollars!!

    @janemulberry so don't go to the bar! To think that our governments and big corporations spent billions on encouraging everyone to smoke back in the day so that they could make zillions of dollars!!        -@buckleyps

Unfortunately, your attitude is exactly the problem!

So you are saying that all other non-smokers in the bar and I either need to breathe chemicals proven to be detrimental to health, or stay home and miss important social events? Just so that smokers can feed their nicotine addiction and  smoke inside, rather than going outside for five minutes to smoke then coming back in?

I don't believe in heavy-handed nanny-state government, either, but unless people can behave more responsibly about exposing those around them to health risks, it appears it's necessary!

@janemulberry

Debating with  smokers  is a royal waste of time!

They are always right

LOL, yes. As with most addicts, the addiction always takes priority over concern for others.  I don't intend to engage in any further discussion with the pro-smoking forum members, as there's nothing more to say.

@TonyFF

I recently moved my father (96) over from the UK. We were spending not far off 10k euros per month for live-in care provided by a care agency (and all expenses).

He's in our old apartment, maybe 5 minutes walk away from our new one. I found a similar care agency here (they cover Sofia, Plovidv and Varna), and they've provided a very nice live-in carer with lots of seniors experience.

This carer takes care of my dad, cleans the apartment, and prepares fresh food every day. In the UK, the carers did little or no cleaning, and little or no cooking (ready meals and cakes, very disappointing). She's also good about keeping him moving, rather than let him sleep most of the day (also a bad habit of his previous carers).

She also arranged a local physio/rehab guy who works with seniors and disabled. Lovely guy, speaks decent English, and gives him a great session (massage, then exercises, then walking outside). We've been doing 2 sessions per week. He's never had ANY physiotherapy in the UK, and similar provision (2 home visit per week, 60 minutes per visit) would probably be another thousand euros per month.

We have a new tablet in the apartment and fibre internet... so we've already done Zoom calls with my brother in London, and my sister and her son in Walnut Creek. He's really enjoying the Zoom stuff, and it really cheers him up. In the UK, he'd barely had a phone conversation in the last 10 years (you pretty much had to go there and talk in person). He also has access to my Netflix, Amazon, and YouTube Premium so we he has music and TV, He's currently chortling to Mr. Bean and Jeremy Clarkson doing stupid stuff on his Farm.

He's getting excellent care, as if he's in a care home for one VIP. It's way better than before. And for less than 2,500 euros.

Wow. Gwyn! I am so glad it's working well for him. What you've been able to provide for him is amazing, especially at a fraction of the cost of UK care.

Unfortunately even paying large amounts in the UK is no guarantee of getting good quality care.

I see why people are leaving  the UK. Taxation to death and no representation. Unfortunately the  same trend exists in the US as well. We vote representatives  in ; they enjoy their positions and do nothing for the people. Politics sucks in America  right now

Anyway, good tips gwynj for home care in Bulgaria. We are thinking about hiring home health attendant too.

@janemulberry  no, I didn't say you have to breathe in chemicals - luckily I don't rise to the bait of silly one sided arguements. 

@buckleyps

If you prefer a light-touch, low-regulation environment, then Bulgaria is one of the best. I'm not sure there is actually less regulation, I believe it's just a lack of enforcement (as it's a relatively poor country). I once lived in New Hampshire, the Live Free or Die state... and I think of Bulgaria as the Live Free or Die country. :-)

interesting and thank you. :-)

    @GoingDutch

In the mid 90s The exchange rate was beautiful-  for $1 you got almost 3 leva.

    -@TonyFF

dont know what you were smoking mate see

mid 90s Bulgaria had BGL. Thats a fact there tony.