UK citizen awaiting Irish EU passport

@Earthling1

Welcome to the expat.com forum and good luck with your potential move to lovely Bulgaria. And congratulations on your (coming soon) shiny new EU passport!

You're quite right, as an EU citizen it's very easy to become a Bulgarian resident. So a great option is to wait patiently for 2 years-ish, and, in the meantime, use your visa-free 90-in-180 allowance.

You're also correct that you CAN buy a house now (as a non-EU citizen) provided you purchase via a Bulgarian company. (Most apartments don't need a company.) Once you're an EU citizen you could definitely transfer to your personal name. In the worst case, you could simply re-sell the house to yourself, but you'll pay the notary and the transfer tax again. We'd have to check with a lawyer for an exact cost, but I'd guess there is a simplified/reduced cost process when it's the company owner transferring to his personal name (rather than a true sale).

And, right again, as an Irish citizen, you'll get a 5-year card when you do the "EU Citizen Registration" process. And once you have your card, you can apply for "Family Reunification" for immediate family members (they get permits for the same period as you). At expiry, you can exchange (usually) for a Permanent Residence permit.

Married is easy (as marriage certificate is accepted as proof of relationship). Ditto civil unions or equivalent as these also have some paperwork. Cohabiting is possible (we did it), as it is accepted under EU Directives if you are in a "durable relationship" of "more than 2 years". But it's more challenging because often there's not much to support your claim. You probably need rental contracts and bank accounts in both names, going back a few years. My attorney has done this for a few unmarried couples, but he says it's a lot harder than it used to be. Currently, he is sending the couple elsewhere in the EU to get an official address registration certificate (such as the Padron in Spain, or the Anmeldung in Germany) first. Then they come here and Bulgaria accepts this. I don't know if Ireland has anything similar. The UK definitely doesn't, but it does have Council Tax bills which puts both names on. I haven't checked with the attorney, but this might be an acceptable alternative, especially if you go to the council in person and get a bill printed there, with official council stamp.

@Earthling1 your girlfriend cannot share your bg residents permit.

She needs her own i.d..

Your 1st residents permit lasts 5 yrs

Then no 2 lasts 5 yrs..after that it becomes long term residents permit

Which allows you almost the same rights as a citizen..ie..stay as long as you like...as there is no need to get your passport stamped..but you mudt show your passpoet the same time as your residents permit..as per eu regulations. Cos thats what i do..and speak up when i see their hand reach for the stamp.

If You obtain an irish passport then this will not be stamped at passport control in Bulgaria.

If you use your uk passport show your bulgarian residency card at same time and the passport will not be stamped.

This is the situation my partner (uk passport) and myself (irish passport) have when we arrive at passport control Bulgaria since Brexit.

Thanks for the replies.

Please can someone explain the importance and relevance of the UK or Irish passport stamping issue in Bulgaria.

@Earthling1 shows when you entered and how long you stayed. Maybe Bulgaria will get into Schengen next year so there aint going to be any border controls for Schengebln flights and road borders.

But Ireland aint in Schengen anyway.

Thanks for the replies.
Please can someone explain the importance and relevance of the UK or Irish passport stamping issue in Bulgaria.
-@Earthling1

EU passports are not stamped. Stamping will soon end as it will be done digitally later in the year. But it is to let the border control how long you have been in the country.

@Earthling1 shows when you entered and how long you stayed. Maybe Bulgaria will get into Schengen next year so there aint going to be any border controls for Schengebln flights and road borders.
But Ireland aint in Schengen anyway.
-@GB_2_BG

It won't matter if Bulgaria is in the Schengen or not, it will still have passport control for flights coming in from countries outside the EU and the Schengen.

Thanks a lot,

I read that if a person overstays  the 90 in 180 day limit they could be banned from entering Bulgaria for 2 years.

If I buy in Bulgaria before the two years it takes for my Irish passport to arrive another difficulty will be car ownership and insurance tax etc as I will only be a UK citizen.

If I planned to buy a house and live there for 3 months on and off.

And rather than return to England I could rent just over the border in Romania for 3 months then go back to Bulgaria for 3 months with both Bulgaria and Romania not in the Schengen zone.

But maybe would have to do so without a car so would make life very difficult.

I think once I have an Irish passport and the UK passport expires I will only keep the Irish passport from there on to save money.

Maybe I am better off in the UK or Ireland until my Irish passport arrives, I just don't want to be paying UK or Irish rent prices for 2 years.

Is it possible to get 12 month EU car insurance from the UK as just a UK citizen?

@Earthling1 shows when you entered and how long you stayed. Maybe Bulgaria will get into Schengen next year so there aint going to be any border controls for Schengebln flights and road borders.
But Ireland aint in Schengen anyway.
-@GB_2_BG

It won't matter if Bulgaria is in the Schengen or not, it will still have passport control for flights coming in from countries outside the EU and the Schengen.
-@SimCityAT

As I said But Ireland aint in Schengen anyway.

He could change flights in Dusseldorf and enter Schengen there.

He might drive and it will matter if he comes up from Greece or Romania if they get into Schengen. There wont be no borders then. No ques.

Need more information. How exactly is he entering the country at what border with what passport

Stamping will not end. It will be done digitally.

Stamping will not end. It will be done digitally.
-@GB_2_BG

It won't be a physical stamp, as said it will be digitally.  This is to save passports from filling up with stamps and needing to renew the passport a lot earlier.

@Earthling1 shows when you entered and how long you stayed. Maybe Bulgaria will get into Schengen next year so there aint going to be any border controls for Schengebln flights and road borders.
But Ireland aint in Schengen anyway.
-@GB_2_BG

It won't matter if Bulgaria is in the Schengen or not, it will still have passport control for flights coming in from countries outside the EU and the Schengen.
-@SimCityAT

As I said But Ireland aint in Schengen anyway.
He could change flights in Dusseldorf and enter Schengen there.
He might drive and it will matter if he comes up from Greece or Romania if they get into Schengen. There wont be no borders then. No ques.
Need more information. How exactly is he entering the country at what border with what passport
-@GB_2_BG

Bulgaria is a long way from joining the bloc anyway.

There are checks even in the Schengen area.

@SimCityAT do you know how do the checks work without borders?

@SimCityAT do you know how do the checks work without borders?
-@GB_2_BG

Yes, because I seem them at least once a week. Its you that has no idea.

@SimCityAT you seem upset. I am just asking how the controls work if there aint no borders?

@SimCityAT do you know how do the checks work without borders?
-@GB_2_BG

Yes, because I seem them at least once a week. Its you that has no idea.
-@SimCityAT

@SimCityAT you seem upset. I am just asking how the controls work if there aint no borders?

https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship/born-abr … ign-birth/

https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship/born-abr … cent-faqs/

https://www.dfa.ie/passports/how-to-app … -passport/

@SimCityAT do you know how do the checks work without borders?
-@GB_2_BG

Yes, because I seem them at least once a week. Its you that has no idea.
-@SimCityAT
@SimCityAT you seem upset. I am just asking how the controls work if there aint no borders?
-@GB_2_BG

I am not upset, but there are borders in a lot of countries. Austria and Hungary are one of them. This is because of the increase of migrants entering Europe.

@Earthling1

I read that if a person overstays the 90 in 180 day limit they could be banned from entering Bulgaria for 2 years.

I don't know how heavy the penalties are, but you should definitely try to avoid overstaying.

And rather than return to England I could rent just over the border in Romania for 3 months then go back to Bulgaria for 3 months with both Bulgaria and Romania not in the Schengen zone.

There are cheap (Ryanair, Wizzair, EasyJet) flights from Sofia and Plovdiv back to UK, so I'd say it's just as easy (and maybe cheaper) to fly there every 90 days. Especially if you have a home in the UK.

If you give up your UK home, then I can see the appeal of driving over the border instead. Romania is one option, but our other neighbours Serbia and Turkey are also possible. Turkey is probably the cheapest, and has the nicest beaches. And you can also get a residence permit pretty easily there too (extended tourist permit for 1 year). But UK passport is good for Serbia and Turkey visa-free entry. If (as they expect) Romania and Bulgarian join Schengen, then the Romania option would not work. But for now (both non-Schengen) it's OK.

another difficulty will be car ownership and insurance tax etc as I will only be a UK citizen.

Well, you can't register a car in Bulgaria in your own name until you're a legal resident. But it's straightforward to have a car in a company. I don't know if a lawyer would recommend two separate companies, but my guess is that you can have one Bulgarian company to own both your house and your car.

Maybe I am better off in the UK or Ireland until my Irish passport arrives, I just don't want to be paying UK or Irish rent prices for 2 years.

UK rents are definitely higher. But using your visa-free allowance you need two places - in Bulgaria and in a neighbouring country. I think Turkey is the cheapest of the 3, but it's an extra cost on top of your Bulgarian house. What about work? Do you want to work / earn money? Unfortunately, you can't legally work on your visa-free entries. If you don't need to work, or you do remote / digital nomad stuff that's a different story.

Thanks gwynj, you provide excellent info on this forum.

I don't need to work as such for a while and when I do it's the digital nomad stuff I do.

We don't own a place in England and don't want to be paying 700 per month to do so or I will need to do more worker, sooner, with the added pressure of being somewhere I don't want to be paying prices I don't want to pay.

I didn't know about turkey with a 1 year tourist visa, that sounds good if rental prices are low and preferably somewhere near a tourist zone near the border.

I will need to look into the legalities of bringing my uk car with me without yet being an EU citizen again. A car is everything to me in some ways.

Perhaps a campervan would be a good investment or transit with a mattress in the back!

Cheers

@SimCityAT passed just before Christmas. There aint no border between Hungary and Austria and then no border going into Germany. I dont understand what controls you say I have no idea about

@Earthling1

Thank you! I bought 2 UK cars over. It's all good as long as you get your car taxed, MOT'd and insured before leaving the UK. You can import into Bulgaria without much difficulty, although as a non-EU vehicle it's now subject to VAT and import duty (about 30%). And would need to register it in your Bulgaria company name.

Blue plates for none EU citizens also work for temp importation. No VAT then.

Thanks.

I think southern Europe will be too hot for me to be sleeping in a camper van for most months of the year so that might not be a good option.

I am drawn to Bulgaria by the cheap prices, ability to grow lots of my own fruit and vegetables, grapes, apricots, figs Etc the beaches to mountainous terrain and equally important the low population density. Of course if Bulgaria was where the south of France is it would be more convenient.

In all honesty I think the Bulgaria summers will be a couple of degrees warmer than my preference but Will adapt to them.

The different alphabet will be a challenge, but I expect English will become more common in the future.

An EU passport will be like gold dust over the next decade or more for Brits otherwise confined to Britain or Ireland.

@SimCityAT borders at austria..hungary...i drive to pomorie every year..i only have to stop to get a vignette..normally i buy in austria for the next 2 countries...i only stop for passport checks in 1st exiting hungary

Entering romania...and the same for romania..bulgaria..also..one should never give up a british passport..hold onto it as one never knows.

Happy reading

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/central-european-leaders-pledge-new-measures-stem-flow-migrants-eu-2022-10-03/

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/austria-extends-hungarian-slovenian-border-control-amid-ukraine-war/

@SimCityAT you mean TEMPORARY controls cos of the military operations in Ukraine. Got you now. Could have said mate. Hegyashalom nieptu domnu Magyaru.

Truckyboy now seems lost cos hes on about Romania. Maybe he took the wrong road. There are controls into outo Romania cos its not Schengen. I dont think the Irish fellow is moving to Romania anyway.

Usually in the Schengen zone there aint no controls as there aint no borders.

Yes my car situation will need more study as I will be a UK only citizen for 2 years without a D visa also.

So with my UK car insurance I am insured in Europe for 30 or 90 days, I'm not sure.

But I am wondering could I drive to Bulgaria buy a house and somehow leave my car in Bulgaria for when I have my eu passport in 2 years all being well.

Thinking about it what if they decline my passport application for some unknown reason, which shouldn't happen but we never know.

Without a D visa or EU passport getting Bulgarian / EU car insurance would be difficult, and if I got 12 months EU car insurance from the UK with one of a few dealers who provide it, it would be expensive no doubt.

So I'm weighing up whether it may be better to wait for my passport and stay in the UK on a two year sentence until I get it. The past 2 years has gone quickly.

It's complicated all this paperwork and small print that dominates our lives.

If it were not for all this legalese and legality study life would be much simpler and active.

Yes after more reflection I think that -

1. Brits without an EU member state passport are basically screwed in Europe.

2. Even a D visa is very difficult to get with 101 hoops to jump through and is only valid for one specific country.

3. The fact Brexit left Brits stranded without EU citizenship was very harsh.

4. I'd prefer a world with less political and financial border based restrictions leaving people actually able to live rather than dealing with paperwork 5 hours per day as unpaid servants to the governments that are actually meant to be here to serve the people.

5. Around 100 years ago passports didn't exist you could go anywhere.

6. Rather than struggle my way across Europe for 2 years waiting for my EU passport to hopefully arrive, I'm probably better off waiting for it, working in the meantime, then setting off to Europe as an EU citizen with rights as opposed to a Brit without an EU passport who basically has minimal rights in Europe beyond a holiday.

Thanks Brexit, you were so kind to British people who don't want to live in Britain!

It's not just Ireland either, if your parent grandparent or perhaps great grandparent was born in eg Poland, you can get citizenship through descent and an EU passport.

https://fivetoeurope.com/faqs/time-and- … plication/

Though I would be weary about paying an intermediary to help me get citizenship and a passport in a foreign country with a different language. Which may lead nowhere except lost time and money. But if you have £1000 to spare to risk losing and no other options I can see how the risk may be worth it.

At least with the Irish foreign births register one applies directly to the Irish government themselves in the English language.

So if a Brit without d visa or EU passport, subject to the 90 on 180 day rule, visits Europe (Schengen zone) or eg. Bulgaria which is outside the Schengen zone, and they didn't get their passport stamped on entry. Logic says they shouldn't get in trouble as how can the authorities prove when you arrived, and why should I have to prove when I arrived / my innocence if they can't prove the person guilty.

But I read an article urging British people to get their passports stamped on entry to Europe to avoid getting into trouble for not being able to prove when you arrived. Was this just Orwellian double speak?

@Earthling1

Not sure where you're heading with this one! :-) But my guess is that you're wondering if you can simply fly to Bulgaria, and overstay? As they can't prove when you entered? You can overstay, that's easy. But if/when you leave they will almost certainly spot it and there will be trouble. And while you're here, you're not a legal resident so you can't do useful things like take a job, buy a car, get a driving license, register in the social security/health system, and so on.

It's not a court of law. Immigration Officers have wide leeway to interpret the rules as they see fit. If they decline you entry because they think you're an undesirable (even if you have a visa, or don't need a visa) they can. If they think you've overstayed, they can apply penalties/sanctions. It's not up to them to prove it, usually it's up to you to prove them wrong, or take them to court after the event (expensive, time-consuming, and unlikely to succeed).

Hence, the advice of getting your passport stamped on entry. You might think it's easy to lie that you arrive on X date, and they forgot to stamp your passport... but don't be surprised if they ask you to show your receipts for your bus/train/plane/car travel on that date.

Further, I'm pretty sure your entry info is their system when they check your passport on entry, regardless of whether they bother to stamp it or not.

And it's all a bit irrelevant, as there is a new European system (ETIAS) coming soon (this year, I believe) modeled on America's ESTA. So you'll need an ETIAS registration/payment, and your entry/exit will be logged, unless you drive over a border without passport controls.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/

But I do think you're right gwnj and Jane, about eg. how the less regulated Bulgaria estate agents may for example forget to post a photo of the wall with the massive crack running down it, which essentially makes it ripe for demolition.

Whereas although this may happen less in the UK as there is more of a duty of care in the UK due to tighter regulations and higher prices.

So I personally would only buy a house in person anywhere especially in Bulgaria.

We won't get fooled again 🥀🎾🎸🎹🗝️

@Guest7632 thank you guest..i was wondering about the blue plates i see on some cars..non eu..thank you.

Although I will hopefully have my lovely EU citizenship in no time at all, Brexit will have inconvenienced me, and hasn't done what it set out to. In improving the economy and controlling inward immigration which has gone through the roof in recent times since Brexit.

So I'm not a Brexit fan as it hasn't done what they said it would, and it's inconvenienced me and many people who want the option to move freely in Europe.