Pension from USA direct deposit to Brasil account. Anybody doing this?

mberigan Serial expat

386POSTS

6 years ago

Hi!

I am trying to help a stateside person wanting to have their pension(s) deposited directly to their Brazilian bank account instead of messing with money transfers and other confusing matters. They intend to return home (permanently) to Brazil to be with family after a long work life in the USA.

Please only respond if you have details on direct deposit from American institutions (like SSA) to a Brazilian bank (like BB).

Thanks.

See also

Banking in Brazil - Guide
Anybody receive money sent from the U.S. sent via Zelle - 21 Replies
do retirees from abroad have to pay taxes in Brasil?? - 11 Replies
Having trouble with credit card and debit card working - 11 Replies
Fine for late declaration of foreign bank account - 4 Replies
Banking and transferring money from the U.S. - 13 Replies
Expats: how do you stretch your Reals further? - 18 Replies

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202402356

BR and SSA has an agreement and it can be done. The above site has good information. Main thing is the BR bank has to help with the proper coding.
If s/he has an account in BR the bank can help.
IMO I would be sure that s/he will stay, because trying to switch back will delay payments for a couple months.

1 member reacted to this post

Alascana Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

Transfer a Portion, for this place will strike over a food bonus, I would never recommend a total Pension...SS will transfer to BR . As Tex said if something goes wrong it could take months to revert the transfer...

1 member reacted to this post

jland912 Serial expat

884POSTS

6 years ago

As others have stated I would use something like transfer wise to send money as needed. Bureaucracy can sometimes complicate things.

Jim

1 member reacted to this post

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

Alascana makes a point I forgot. SSA and others do allow you to split payments. You can have some to BR and rest in US.
Keep in mind most accounts are FDIC insured whereas not in BR.

mberigan Serial expat

386POSTS

6 years ago

Thanks Texanbrazil. Having that SSA link should help a bit.

The recipient has no intention of ever living in the USA again which is the reason for all of this. They are already here in Brazil.

Also - wondering about direct deposit of non-SSA income sources because there are other retirement income sources in question which also include survivorship issues for the person's partner (in-other-words, the person plans to come here to live out their years and has a non-English speaking spouse that will some how [in the event of spouse's death] have to trigger survivorship, pay USA taxes on the income and be able to easily access funds).

As you can see, it is complex. The SSA has a working relationship with the State Department based in Lisbon to help with SSA issues and even that is complex right now given that the intended recipients (living here in Brazil) need to arrange verification interviews at American consulates which are now providing very limited assistance to anybody given Covid-19.

Matt in Paraíba

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

I have a similar case. But I went to an attorney (BR) to designate him as my personal rep after a codicil was written to take care of spouse.
US banks already had will, plus had TOD's set up to my personal rep. I trained the attorney as to continue transfer of funds.
Having retirement investments in US and wanting to cash out is taxable and I did not want 50% of such diluted. (Most investment accounts do not allow TOD and investment adviser would have to send their documents for signature and must be notarized by US notary. Consulate can notarize for US citizens) Now only emergency only, so would have to wait.
SSA will be reduces upon death and survivor will have to file for such.
Without knowledge of other retirement account, I can not help. Most company pensions are administered by insurance companies, and would be a staring point.

Alascana Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

I have a simple policy, payable on demise, other than that there is nothing follows...understand the seriousness, yet it will all work out in time, nothing is moving now and it is a good time to focus and research so when all is well one can be definative of needs..my pension is OPM..I don't think they will transfer all, I think I could cut a Alotment, which may work for the person...Some Banks in Brasil have USA affiliates and it maybe worth the time and effort to find which banks do and then there would be less hassle accessing funds..

1 member reacted to this post

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

May have changed since I came. I went to BoB, Santander, Bradesco in US and all said "we are separated from BR". HSBC was the only one which had bank to bank worldwide transfers for free. Now they are gone.

Alascana Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#10

Texanbrazil wrote:
May have changed since I came. I went to BoB, Santander, Bradesco in US and all said "we are separated from BR". HSBC was the only one which had bank to bank worldwide transfers for free. Now they are gone.

Yup...my findings also...

abthree Brazil Expert

6453POSTS

6 years ago

#11

Alascana wrote:
I have a simple policy, payable on demise, other than that there is nothing follows...understand the seriousness, yet it will all work out in time, nothing is moving now and it is a good time to focus and research so when all is well one can be definative of needs..my pension is OPM..I don't think they will transfer all, I think I could cut a Alotment, which may work for the person...Some Banks in Brasil have USA affiliates and it maybe worth the time and effort to find which banks do and then there would be less hassle accessing funds..

Similar for me. E is too young to qualify for survivor benefits from SSA no matter how long I live, so we had to make other arrangements.

As for private pensions, I can't imagine that it would be a problem, except for the hassle of making separate arrangements with each company. Only need to do it once, though, since your friend doesn't plan to go back.

I've found the FBU at the US Embassy in Lisbon relatively easy to deal with, and they keep office hours that make them available by phone in the morning for people in Brazil. If your friend can make the arrangements before leaving the US, though, that's one less thing to work out here.

In addition to the Consulates, there are Consular Agencies in Fortaleza, Manaus, and Salvador that keep a low profile because they only provide services to US citizens; they can notarize documents also.

mberigan Serial expat

386POSTS

6 years ago

#12

Thanks for the responses BUT I'm still hunting for the perfect mix of moving monthly payments past my [potential] demise to a survivor AND help getting taxes paid. Per the Lisbon SSA folks the direct deposit to [most any] Brazilian bank is a done deal. They just need the IBAN and authorization. My other pension funds are something I need to work out but they currently go to an American account and would continue as such getting past all of the paperwork of survivorship. And THAT'S where I get really stuck because I've seen what happens when Brazilian lawyers get involved in wills and estates. I've been through that once and it was a very bad experience. I'm really hoping to find a U.S. based firm that has tax consultants versant in Portuguese, Brazilian and U.S. tax laws as well as other financial services. I found one but their financial requirements are WAY out of my reach. And THAT's the thing. Yeah I know I can find people that do this stuff but they exist mostly to deal with those who have buckets of money. I'm a simple retired worker-bee who wants to take care of a Brazilian spouse that never had a chance to plan for retirement.

H&R Block (Expat Service) has tax services but those seem to be intended for expats and not their non-English speaking spouses.

In isolation in the vast inland of northeastern Brazil,
MattB

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#13

If SSA, first notification of the death of the recipient, at the same time spouse can fill out survivor benefit application. (Same should apply to other pension plans)
I have the same situation, but retained an attorney in Brazil which has an English speaking assistant which has POA upon my death. POA will handle taxes in US as well as receipt of transfers from US.
This was done due to having IRA's and one incorrect move would involve a hefty tax penalty. Other taxable accounts were made as TOD's. Most investment accounts do not allow TOD's. Bank accounts and investments are handled different in the US.
It is difficult to find and making a PR aware of the their duties and repercussion of not performing their fiduciary duty.

1 member reacted to this post

abthree Brazil Expert

6453POSTS

6 years ago

#14

Matt,

Since you seem to want all the funds coming to your Brazilian account directly and permanently, is there a downside to putting both names on the account now with right of survivorship, with instructions to continue depositing survivor benefits to the same account when that becomes necessary? The eventual changeover in that case should be transparent to the Brazilian authorities, and not involve Brazilian lawyers.

Alascana Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#15

I would simply make a will with necessary Stipulations for tax laws change daily and call it a day..the Simpler the better after one leaves this planet not much to worry about. I understand distribution and lump sum payments...I java a simple policy that should involve no inheritance tax...The World is Changing and Who knows what tommorrow brings..I am sure with in the time we all have to plan it will work it's way out..I am in agreement with Big Tex a English speaking Lawyer is the way to go..I have a English speaking lawyer in Belem as of now Research is the Key...The Embassies use to have a list of Lawyers..

mberigan Serial expat

386POSTS

6 years ago

#16

The problem: the spouse speaks no English. I need accountants that are bilingual.

Alascana Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#17

mberigan wrote:
The problem: the spouse speaks no English. I need accountants that are bilingual.

Everyone speaks money...I speak little portugese, yet everyone speaks dollars...ever heard "Money Talks"...just take the time to Research for you know the Needs..Try looking in Areas with high Brasilian Immigrants..Massachusetts is a good area to start..

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#18

KPMG is international,but not cheap. What city in US are the funds held.

mberigan Serial expat

386POSTS

6 years ago

#19

Wisconsin. I need "cheap."

CaninBrazil Member

22POSTS

6 years ago

#20

I am not from the USA but I think the same rules will apply. I am from Canada and my government pension will be transferred to my account in my Brazilian Bank ITAU Personalité.

The issuing institution needs some basic information from the recepient's bank. Bank account number, branch number, and some types of numbers used for international transfer ( Swift). The issuing institution should know what they need and provide the necessary forms or information.

Mine is being processed now and I Was told it will take about three months to see the 1st payment in my Brazilian bank. The funds will be transferred in Reals as per the exchange rate on the date of issuance off the payment.

2 members reacted to this post