thoughts, feelings about Russia invading Crimea

I'm American and was  in Ukraine for 2 1/2 months in 2013. I also was in Russia for 2 months. I saw a considerable difference. Ukraine's streets and many buildings are in bad condition. Not many people can afford cars and many of the cars are old. In Russia you can see many people have new expensive cars. There are many more shops and malls. There are jobs and many new apartment buildings and construction everywhere. The salaries are much better.  so my question is why are the Ukrainians so against being a part of Russia? What exactly is it that Russia does to Ukrainian people that is so terrible? I can not get the answer to this question. It seems to me if they became a part of Russia again, Russia would pump billions of rubles in, to help them. It would take time,but salaries would increase and life would improve. They would also be guaranteed to get natural gas. Again, what is the issue exactly? I know what Stalin did but he's dead. what are they doing now against Ukrainians? As far as I can tell, nothing.

I am also an American who has traveled considerably throughout the FSU for better than 10 years and also have a home in Ukraine. I am quite surprised by your flippant attitude. First of all, Ukrainians are not Russians . Ukrainians want their freedom and independence, not sell their souls to the devil for money. Ukraine is also a rich country and was robbed of its wealth by your heroes the Russians. When our country fought our war of Independence, a third wanted to stay with Britain because of people like yourself who put money first. There was another third that just wanted to stay out of harm's way. The last third comprised our founding fathers. I know which group I would have joined. It is quite clear your stance. Then again you are the expert. After all you spent two and a half months here. I' all bet you are fluent in Ukrainian and Russia ... Lol! Perhaps before you reply, you should study. At this point we have n common ground for a discussion. Start with 1991. And just where in Ukraine and Russia did you visit and derive your expert opinion? I assure you that you are wrong. Russia in reality has many poor cities!

Interesting attitude. I suppose you would feel the same if  britain wanted to annex the US back. In any event, I have lived in Ukraine a great deal over the past 8 years. I have lived in Crimea for a time. I have visited most other major cities from Donetsk to Sumy, Odessa to Kiev, Lvov and so on. My wife lives in Chernovsti. I agree the conditions of infrastructure are not up to USA standards. But, I rarely have seen unhappy or angry people in Ukraine. Certainly they would like to earn higher standard of living as would many in US. But, I deviate...
My real question was how do Ukrainians feel about the takeover of Crimea by the russkies? Do Ukrainians feel the Russians will continue to takeover Ukraine?  Is the takeover and those who support it orchestrated by provocateurs from russia....as I suspect?

I agree. In my experience living in Ukraine a lot over past 8 years, I never met anyone or even heard of anyone who wanted to crawl back into the bushes with Russia. Except for a few like the deposed corrupt dictator, Ukrainians seemed to relish their independence and liberty and wanted more. Maybe I am wrong....
Again my question is, how do Ukrainian people feel about the russian invasion and takeover? Fear? Anger? Willing to embrace Russia? I never thought people in Crimea would openly embrace annexation to Russia so it is a surprise to me..

From the moment that Washington launched its orchestrated coup in Kiev, Washington has been accusing Russia of “intervening in Ukraine.” This propaganda ploy succeeded. The Western presstitute media reported (nonexistent) Russian intervention to the exclusion of coverage of Washington’s obvious intervention.

Having accused Russia of invading Crimea, the Obama regime now demands that Russia interfere in Crimea and prevent the referendum set for next Sunday. Unless Russia uses force to prevent the people of Crimea from exercising their right of self-determination, John Kerry declared that the Obama regime will not discuss the Ukrainian situation with Russia.

So, Kerry has given Russia the green light to send in troops to prevent Crimean self-determination.
The presstitute Western media has not noticed that out of one corner of his mouth Kerry denounces Russia for intervening and out of the other corner of his mouth Kerry demands that Russia intervene in behalf of Washington’s interest and suppress Crimean self-determination.

What is the point of such an absurd demand on Russia?

The Obama regime claims that the Crimean vote is not legal, because all of Ukraine is not voting on Crimea’s future. When Washington stole Kosovo from Serbia, Washington did not allow Serbia to vote on Kosovo secession. In the upcoming Scottish vote on whether to secede from the UK, only the Scottish are voting, not the British population. But these normal processes established in international law cannot be permitted to Crimeans, because the vote will not support Washington’s agenda. Clearly, an Obama regime this shameless has no shame.

The neoconservative warmongers who control the Obama regime are boasting that unless Russia prevents Crimean self-determination, Washington will use sanctions to “badly damage the Russian economy.”

The importance is the propaganda advantage of portraying Russia as an offending party who is punished by Washington. Not only does this propaganda put Russia in the wrong, it also portrays Russia as subservient to Washington.

The Crimean government is actually elected, whereas the Washington-installed government in Kiev is not. Here is a report on Global Research about the “democrats” who comprise the unelected government in Kiev:Source

During the Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama regimes, Washington has established that whatever serves Washington’s agenda is legal. Laws inconsistent with Washington’s agenda are simply not applicable. They are dead letter laws. Therefore, it comes as no surprise that in violation of US law that prohibits giving financial assistance to governments whose leaders come to power via coup or other illegal means, Washington is offering its stooges in Kiev $1 billion to help the coup government get up and running.

The problem from the US standpoint is the perpetuation of the left/right paradigm rhetoric that has created an uncritical bias toward the usual inane bipartisan doublespeak.  This is exactly the insane Orwellian rhetoric that exists in the US making it's citizens easily manipulated by the controlled media.  Ron Paul, Jesse Ventura or real journalists from the alternate press do a better job covering the angles without the usual corporate approved spin off.  This war likes others is precisely what FDR warned about concerning the expansion of the military industrial complex.  This is also what was aptly described in the book, Pentagonism and by CIA station chief under anonymous conditions in his book, Imperial Hubris.  Read Brzezinski and understand where and what PNAC is in terms of the guiding policy behind US imperialistic or post colonial aims.  To many Americans getting a steady diet of FOX/CNN/MSNBC without reading the sources or white papers creates what Charlotte Iserbyte identified as semantic deception which is perpetuated by the US media on a daily basis.  It is also what Chomsky identifies in his lectures and books, except in terms of the corporate class warfare which has obviously exacerbated in the US.

this is the just plain bullshit from start to finish. It could have been quoted directly from Putins Russian propaganda machine.It is similar to the same lies and corruptions comimg from the russian controlled media in Russia. If you tell a lie long enough and loud enough, the ignorant and uninformed will believe the lie.

I was in Ukraine the month of November and month of January. I observed carefully the Maidan protests, the special "police" troops of the former president, the storming and shooting of the people, the occupying of government buildings, etc. I was not there when the cowardly ex president grabbed his money and ran like a rat for Russia. The government was not taken over by fascists or terrorists. In fact, there were few new people in government. The corrupt criminal rats, like the ex president, ran away so new people were appointed until elections, but majority of representatives are the same as before.
Just to set this portion straight, there were no western agitators present anywhere other than news media. What was there were russian thugs, criminals or provacateurs trying to intimidate the protestors with threats and occassional beatings. I can only assume many were bought and paid for. Only in Kiev was the major protests, other cities had small protests.
Now on to Crimea. I was not present, but I have several Ukraine friends living in Evpatoria and Sevastopol and we talked. Putin decided to take back Crimea into the Russian fold and sent troops from the naval base to take over the government building. Troops in military clothing using military weapons and transport directly from the naval base. Putin denied it because the troops had taken off the insignias. From that point forward the Crimea was effectively under martial law, not by Ukraine but by Russia. My friends told me there was no protests or maidan people anywhere. There was no threats or movement anywhere. Everything was normal until the Russian troops began invading the Crimea. There was no foreign involvement other than Russia. There was nobody in Crimea threatening russian speaking people, which is virtually everyone of every ethnic group and that was an incredible lie as the main language throughout Ukraine is russian. There were Russian military men offering cash bribes to men to help support the Russian takeover. There were never any "fascists or terrorists" other than russian thugs and troops invading. Now anyone supporting Ukraine over Russia is attacked and even beaten... Who is going to vote if they are beaten or family threatened? The vote coming up is Russian mandated options. You can only vote to annex into Russia or become autonomous nation separated from Ukraine...what about other options like continuing to be part of Ukraine as it was until the Russians invaded and set up puppets in power? This election is no different than an election in North Korea or Red China..just a farce.
To sum up, no western nation was involved in Maidan protests in Kiev, nor any western provocateurs. The only obvious provacoteurs at Maidan were russian thugs and criminals, maybe some military, coming in by bus to intimidate and threaten Ukrainians and provoke the violence. The major violence or fascist activity came from ex President and his personal riot police who killed almost 100 civilians and provoked the violence in kiev. The corrupt and criminal leaders in government either ran or tried to run with money and possessions leaving empty government positions. These few positions were filled by non political people but the rest and majority of elected government in Ukraine is unchanged.
I left Ukraine in February because of uncertainty of transportation, airports etc. Now I can only watch and talk with friends in Ukraine. Such a sad development for Ukraine and the people. We can but hope that Ukraine does not become a battlefield like Chechnya and other that tried to become independant.

I guess being willfully blind is a part of the cognitive dissonance that seems pandemic. Your emotional assessment of the situation is applicable to the manipulated unwashed masses which have always adhered  to left/right paradigms.  Governments and their self appointed rulers know better and continually play off sides in support of profit.  This is a resource grab as Dr Paul Craig Roberts easily articulated in his interviews.  Educate yourself and keep an open mind rather then having emotional bursts based on ignorance and blind allegiance to any side.  Voltaire said it best when he exclaimed patriotism is a virtue of the vicious. Bakunin was right concerning governments who always move toward more power and more control of the people.  Any government.  History proves this.  Look at the US in it's deplorable state.  We have massive disparity of wealth inequality with tax payers bailing out the Corporate fascists and government cronies while the middle class and all industry are decimated.  I see it in New York city and in the bowels of southwest Florida.  Yet the 'democans and republicrats" worship their corporate cronies and elected officials while waiting for Godot.  Your being played.  Perfect for the divide and conquer tactic which is done via mechanism such as controlled media, government shills and yes, provocateurs which have already been well established historically by domestic COINTELPRO effects under Hoover's FBI mission statement as well as the CIA abroad since circa 1950 or the debacles with the banana republics.  This is nothing new.  Same in Thailand playing off the red shirts vs. the yellow shirts.  Read V. Marchetti concerning the cult of intelligence and how it works in foreign subversive policy.  Get real.  Read Zibignew's books so you learn neoliberal policy and it's influence as an ideology of profit over people.  It is being orchestrated globally and domestically as evidenced by the state of economic affairs worldwide.

Good assessment with documented evidence/interviews with state players as opposed to emotionalism and flippant knee jerk reactionism. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw

Roberts article on media propaganda:

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03 … g-roberts/

FYI:
President Reagan appointed Dr. Roberts Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and he was confirmed in office by the U.S. Senate. From 1975 to 1978, Dr. Roberts served on the congressional staff where he drafted the Kemp-Roth bill and played a leading role in developing bipartisan support for a supply-side economic policy. After leaving the Treasury, he served as a consultant to the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Department of Commerce.  Dr. Roberts was associate editor and columnist for The Wall Street Journal and columnist for Business Week and the Scripps Howard News Service.

In my opinion that the Crimea is once again fully integrated into Russia is the best thing that could have happened. I'm also pleased to see a spanner being put in the plans of the US and EU and also pleased to see the integrity of Russia partly reinstated.

Interesting way of looking at history. Based on your conclusion, what about Turkey's integrity? They had Crimea longer so shouldn't they be allowed to reclaim the peninsula? Shouldn't the USA and India be returned to Great Britain? In your profile you oppose socialism, yet you live in Switzerland. You have also lived in Germany and the UK. I think you have your "isms" confused.  You do favor the authoritarianism of Russia ... LOL! From where does such logic hail? For openers, perhaps getting rid of the archaic "ism" view of the world. It is so last century. One last thought, if Russia so loved Crimea, why did they give it away back in 1954?

Actually I wasn't talking history as you are, my thoughts lie more with what is best for today's population of Crimea and for the stability of the region as a whole, as well as opposing American hegemony.
By applying a forward-looking and a fair-on-people perspective to world affairs you don't get tied up in all the thought problems that you seem to be engaged in, or have the need to criticize others based on their profile details.

PS I have seen it stated that Crimea was given to Ukraine by Khrushchev after about only 15 minutes deliberations. Looks like Ukraine's claim to Crimea was based on little more than the whim of a rather eccentric politician. 

It is wrong what Russia did to the Ukraine by taking the Crimea.  I read the comments that were posted.  For those of you who support the Russian takeover of the Crimea and blame the U.S. and EU for the coup.  You have mental issues, and I would hope you seek professional help.  Before the Olympics, the word was already out that Putin was out to get the Crimea.  He took advantage of the political situation.  As a former KGB officer, he was involved in bringing in Russian Snipers into Kiev and killing many innocent people.  To support a dictator who only wanted to ensure a Russian Navy base is crazy.  Shame on you that support Putin.  Ukraine is an independent Nation, that is rich in culture and in its people.  Being a part of Russia is losing their identity, all of this is caused by a demented leader, who only wants to enslave the people of the Ukraine under his tyrannical rule.  He only want to recreate the USSR, not to have a free independent people.

I live in the Eastern Ukraine in Kharkov with my beautiful Ukrainian wife.  It is only a minority that want to be a part of Russia.  The majority of the people enjoy there freedom from Russia.  To me Kharkov is full of life that glows at night with all of the lights on public buildings.  I would not want to see a city that suffered so much during WWII, to become a part of a nation that only has demigods as leaders.  Examine what is being said, and the lies being spread by Russian Media.  If you like Russia so damn much, get the hell out of here and move to Russia.

There are just some topics of dicussion that aren't suitable for this website and common sense should be the guide. Those topics are politics and religion, the simple truth is that they always degenerate into flame wars and personal attacks like this on seems to be doing because members can't keep cool heads.

Opinions are one thing, personal attacks on other members is quite another.

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

Simple question Mr. Jolst. If what Russia did by annexing Crimea was right, why did they wait so long to take it back? 1954-2014, that is some time to consider an bissue ... LMAO. I brought up a historical retort because Russia's excuse is that Crimea was historically theirs.

You must be a stand up comedian..  Evaluate yourself before your own demented views are expressed.  Emotion is a character strength, you show weakness through your violent rhetoric.  Violence only breeds more violence, that is why only the Dead have seen the end of war.  Russia is so corrupt that dictators around the world know that they can hide their money in Moscow.  The money that they steal from their own people, and Putin is there with his arms wide open to receive their cash.  I will laugh the day that he steals it from them.  Thieves bond together until they can find a way to steal from each other.  I live in the Ukraine with my wife and children.  It is a wonderful country and through my wife I do have a very large Ukrainian family.  I have many Ukrainian friends, neighbors and all of them demonstrate the fine qualities of emotion and compassion.   I encourage all foreigners from the west to embrace their Ukrainian families and enjoy the experience that comes from being a part of their family.  On your suggestion upon me moving back to the States, I would recommend that you relocate yourself and hang out with other vile haters of democracy.  I intend to stay with my loving family.

I had to say my peace, in the words of Mr. Woodward,, this is a place that we are suppose to come together as foreigners to help each other and to give sound advice to others who would like to know more about the Ukraine. My advice to other expats, is to enjoy the Ukraine and all that it offers.  Ignore those that have no concept of reality.

@ Dougcdc
BTW I suppose in your mind it wasn't the US that sent in an armed goon squad in a midnight raid in Kiev a couple of weeks ago and grabbed 33 tonnes of Ukrainian Central Bank gold. Yes, come on tell us it was the Ruskies. 
One thing is sure, that gold will never be returned to the Ukraine...ask the Germans if you are in any doubt.

Hi all,

Echoing wjwoodward's post. Political debates are out the website's context.
We close the thread.

Thanks
Armand
Expat.com Team