DUAL NATIONALITY in SPAIN (for US natives)...RENOUNCE US Citizenship?!

nj_bcn Active member

31POSTS

12 years ago

So, I just reached the final step in the 6-year process of being approved for Spanish nationality. I was filling out the online form to attend the "sworn oath" and when I reached the last of 4 steps, the button that says something like "I renounce my current nationality" and there is a YES / NO button choice, I saw that the "NO" button was disactivated ... I couldn't choose anything but "YES" ... so, before I clicked, I called ....

It turns out that there is no "convenio" (agreement) between Spain and the USA for dual nationality, (just like I learned for my driver's license and my university credits for my degrees) and hence the Spanish gov't requires you to renounce your US citizenship to acquire Spanish nationality.

So I called the US Embassy who passed me to the US Consulate in Barcelona where they informed me that "There is no law that prohibits US citizens from acquiring other nationalities ... and in order to renounce or abandon US nationality, one must enter the Embassy and state/claim that their wish is such." ... They went on to assure me that the "renunciation" on Spanish soil is only valid, in the eyes of the US gov't, in Spain ... and until a US citizen expressly renounces his/her citizenship in person and with that expressed intent WITHIN the setting of the US (Embassy/Consulate, etc) he/she remains a US citizen with all of his/her rights, privelages and obligations.

So ... I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this ... or if they've gone through the process ...

My little sister told me right away, "DON'T DO IT! WHAT IF LAWS CHANGE IN THE FUTURE AND YOU'RE STRIPPED OF YOUR US CITIZENSHIP FOR HAVING RENOUNCED IT IN SPAIN!!!"

I'm a little freaked by it ... and want to know if anyone has, perhaps, seeked legal advice on this one ... even though the people at the Consulate were more than assuring that it's just a legal formality.

Note: My sister is residing in Italy where they don't require you to renounce your nationality.

2nd Note: My children both have dual nationality, but that is because they were "born involuntarily" into the situation and THEY did not choose ... hence, they don't have to choose nor renounce.

I hope to hear from you all ....

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ECS Norway Expert

1566POSTS

12 years ago

LawLibrarian wrote:
You will have to tell them this in any case, when you apply for a US passport renewal, as the form in question asks you if you have naturalized anywhere else. This then could be a legal evidence for you later on in the unlikely case there is any question of your intentions.

I was just looking at the passport application form and I don't see where you have to declare other nationalities.. where would they get this information from?

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/212239.pdf?

LawLibrarian New member

4POSTS

12 years ago

Sorry I don't see it on this new form either--when I looked at one some years back, it was on the renewal form--along with a second question asking if you intended to relinquish/retain citizenship. That it is not there today however is more evidence that DoS does have the administrative presumption in favour of people always intending to retain citizenship--i.e. they now don't even bother to ask you about other nationalities.

Of course, some cynics might say this is because the government does not want citizens to expatriate, because then they would be released from legal obligations to file numerous IRS forms, and pay certain taxes where applicable and not covered by tax treaty with the foreign nation in question, even when living and earning (or investing/realizing capital gains (e.g. real estate, retirement funds, trusts)) abroad. : )

I myself became Canadian and due to no real ties to the States anymore and no intention to move back ever, decided to relinquish US citizenship and had to fill out the forms at the consulate in Toronto. They certainly did not know I had made any sort of loyalty oath to the Crown before I told them, unlike in the Vietnam era, when sometimes at least they had frowny-faced people at naturalization ceremonies looking for draft dodgers and dissidents who would get CLNs (Certificate of Loss of Nationality) mailed to them afterwards by Mr.Kissinger.

See FAM 1254 Procedures b: (this is what the guy at the consulate was looking at when he advised you):

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/120544.pdf

LawLibrarian New member

4POSTS

12 years ago

ps. You likely already know this, but just in case you don't: ALWAYS enter and leave the USA with your US passport, as required by law even if not always properly enforced at all. Likewise, you should enter and leave Spain or any port of entry at an EU country with your Spanish/EU passport. (i.e. carry both but only show the one at the proper respective port of entry). The new DHS database system of keeping tabs on aliens entering the country has the potential for snagging dual citizens, QED:

http://www.alternet.org/story/153499/wh … deported_b

"More recently, an immigration detainer mistakenly snared Romy Campos, a 19-year-old American college student. Following a November 12 arrest for a minor misdemeanor, Campos was held in a California jail for four days and denied bail.

She was assigned a public defender in state court, but the attorney told her that nothing could be done to lift the federal detainer. Campos wasn't released until four days later when ACLU attorney Jennie Pasquarella provided ICE with Campos' Florida birth certificate.Campos is a dual citizen of the US and Spain and has both a US and Spanish passport, which she has used interchangeably. Because she once entered the US with her Spanish passport, she is recorded in the DHS database.

I felt misused completely, I felt nonimportant, I just felt violated by my own country,Campos toldtheTimes. While her detention was inexcusable, Campos is one of the luckier ones who got out quickly. Others have been detained for weeks and even months before proving their citizenship. "

ECS Norway Expert

1566POSTS

12 years ago

LawLibrarian wrote:
ps. You likely already know this, but just in case you don't: ALWAYS enter and leave the USA with your US passport, as required by law even if not always properly enforced at all. Likewise, you should enter and leave Spain or any port of entry at an EU country with your Spanish/EU passport. (i.e. carry both but only show the one at the proper respective port of entry).

if you were to try to enter the US with your non-US passport without filing that stupid 14 dollar pre-approval, do they even let you in? Although the lines are always some of the worst immigration wait times I've seen anywhere, it's also still slightly shorter to be in the US citizens line going into the States too.

not to mention that whole legality thing

what I don't understand though, is why the US has no exit inspection of passports. It always seems weird to me that they're so careful to check going in, but only do the ID check when departing.

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LawLibrarian New member

4POSTS

12 years ago

ECS wrote:

if you were to try to enter the US with your non-US passport without filing that stupid 14 dollar pre-approval, do they even let you in? Although the lines are always some of the worst immigration wait times I've seen anywhere, it's also still slightly shorter to be in the US citizens line going into the States too.

not to mention that whole legality thing

what I don't understand though, is why the US has no exit inspection of passports. It always seems weird to me that they're so careful to check going in, but only do the ID check when departing.

I don't know and wouldn't try it. Canadian citizens enter visa-free, and everyone I know happens to do it by land port of entry, though of course you can go through pre-approval at Canadian airports and fly in, too. Some of us have indeed been told to get and use a US passport, upon presentation of a CND passport with a USA place of birth on it. Some of us have refused and instead have relinquished and gotten a CLN to present instead.

Recently a pilot program at the Canada/US border for a joint entry/exit shared database with both CBP and CSBA has been attempted. This may become more of a practice in future--certainly the two agencies already have access to each nations' criminal records, so that people with a DUI conviction or drug bust (etc.) on their record can be and have been denied entry to either country, as of late, and forced to get a waiver.

http://elpasotimes.typepad.com/immigrat … just-does-