Visa on arrival - WARNING!

Wxx3 wrote:

Sorry, I wasn't clear.
I'm not referring to travelers,  but those bureaucrats behind the desk. They think they are following the rules,  that everyone at every desk does it exactly the same.
No one does.  But to even mention that is a minefield.

In just trying to give those interested some much needed perspective.

that's right, not limited to immigration officers but Vietnamese officials in general. i just set up a company here and jeez the amount of bureaucracy.... thanks for the clarification and have a great weekend.

colinoscapee wrote:

Because thats the easy road to take when they werent actually there to witness it. I have seen officials carry on like turds, if someone wants to bow to them and accept their rudeness, its up to them.

My friends were abused and sworn at for overstaying the wifes visa. Even though she showed them a letter stating the renewal of her visa was stuffed up by immigration. She was gobsmacked at the swearing and bullying directed at her and her husband. Not all officials are crap, but there is an attitude that runs deep through the system here in VN.

hi colin, thanks for your reply. i still do not really understand why the kowtowing when being treated like crap. i'm not saying i think one should be rude or belligerent back (not gonna help, probably make things worse), but to condone all that rubbish and even support their actions and blaming the victims- now that is really hard to accept. as you very correctly pointed out, if they were in their own countries they'd be throwing a fit!

you probably have been here much longer than I have. how long have you been here? could you tell me, is this the norm for expats to accept the unacceptable and chastise people who do not do as they do? or is it just limited to this forum?

i'm sorry to hear about your friends horrid experience. i reckon there are probably a couple of people on this forum who would blame your mate and his wife for 'causing the officer to be a rude son of a gun'. i hope no one ever has to go through such professionalism. yes, not all are awful, but a lot are.  it does seem to be that way,Even with the proper documentation, i have encountered a lot of issues with the officials (some face to face, some via email) that has set back the opening of my office by up to 3-4 months.

cheers colin and have a pleasant wekend ahead.

vndreamer wrote:

Villanova, from my perspective, your post came across that you were really upset and being a western guy, I know how that feels.  Thus, it is the perception that possibly you were rude because you felt cheated.  However, as you said, maybe you were trying to be polite and not rude, but what constituents being rude in VN vs. the West is very different as in night and day and right vs. left. 

To this day, my comment about the parking lot with the wife, I am still at a lost how I was the bad guy, just by merely explaining what happened.  My educated guess is that because I felt I was not in the wrong, my explaining was not like everyday conversation, but a little excited because I wanted to prove I did nothing wrong.  The VN, especially women, are so astute when it comes to personality traits and picking up your attitude.  So, like me, I thought I was being normal and just explaining, but my slight excitement trying too explain came across as rude/disrespectful.  I still do not agree, but I understand it now. 

So word to the wise, if you have a VN wife or GF, learn these words:

"Da Vo Yeu or Em Yeu, you right"   

by saying these words, you avoid 

vndreamer, you assume too much,

i am a singaporean of chinese descent and I can pass off as a vietnamese any day. not a day goes by where i'm not mistaken for a vietnamese. 

as for your wife situation, all i can say is i just married my girlfriend of 13 years, high school lovers, and i have come to learn that no logic or reason is required to piss her off.

have a nice weekend vndreamer.

villanova wrote:

i am a singaporean of chinese descent

Now I understand why you had a problem, your Chinese.   

pilotadamp wrote:

They took you for a sucker. There is no 'old' US currency - all notes are usually accepted.

You should have very quietly acted naive and asked to speak to the manager.

99% of visa on arrival is trouble free.

if a bill has a tear in it they wont take it as the money exchanges wont take it..."old" means condition.

many times I've had street vendors reject Vietnamese dong if it is torn etc. if you have a torn vnd bill you can take it into a bank and they will exchange it for you.

pilotadamp wrote:

I've never had a problem with torn notes - just use sellotape. Some get fussy with writing on notes, but it's all nonsense.

Vietnamese traders will not accept a torn 500,000 dong note, simply because the next person wont want to take it from them. It's still legal tender but it is harder to trade with as people don't want them. The booth at the visa on arrival in this case is a classic example...

villanova wrote:

vndreamer wrote:

Villanova, ... you right"   

by saying these words, you avoid 

vndreamer, you assume too much,

i am a singaporean of chinese descent and I can pass off as a vietnamese any day. not a day goes by where i'm not mistaken for a vietnamese. 

as for your wife situation, all i can say is i just married my girlfriend of 13 years, high school lovers, and i have come to learn that no logic or reason is required to piss her off.

have a nice weekend vndreamer.

Ok Now I get it. 
With the litany of issues you have mentioned: not understanding  wife, business  paperwork delays, problems on entry to Vietnam.

I can see your frustration and understand you really just needed to vent, as opposed to wanting solutions.

So, I suppose now his is a rhetorical question, but why didn't you open your business in Singapore?

villanova wrote:

I got my 3mth multiple business visa after an hour and a half wait. stamping fee was supposed to be 50 USD. They rejected and refused my 100USD bill because it was 'old'. I offerer to pay in Singapore dollars. So I gave them 100 SGD and returned me 15 000vnd (80 cents SGD).

50 US Dollar equals
1134425.00 Vietnamese Dong

100 Singapore Dollar equals
1639225.08 Vietnamese Dong

I should have received bout 500 000 vnd more in change. But the surly nasty lady at the counter threw my money back at me and asked me to go exchange the USD (pointing at the money changer OUTSIDE immigrations. How would I go through immigrations without the visa and come back in to requeue (another 1.5 hr wait)? Essentially she ripped me off nicely. I asked for a receipt and she gave me a pink piece of paper that showed I had paid 50 USD. very quickly she snatched my passport and barked her orders again - go and exchange your money outside immigration. Then she turned and yelled some stuff in Viet to her colleagues and they laughed. Not wanting to get taken even further for a ride I gave up and left with the officials laughing at their success.

Lesson learnt - always do your visa in your country before coming over. Officials are as corrupt as ever here and will seize every opportunity to rip you off if you . Minimise the amount of time you have to deal with Vietnamese officials (I think this applies in every situation - whether you are a backpacker or a business man).

It's too bad this happened. BUT...

1) This is your 3rd visa so you should know by now that "old" bills are often turned down here. Was it worn or just not the current style?
2) When you are at Immigration, the exchange rate is what they say the exchange rate is.
3) If you get your panties in such a wad over ~US$22, you are NEVER going to be happy here.
4) Next time would you rather they just kicked you out? It is their option as to whether or not you get in even if you have a valid visa, which you did not yet have.
5) Did you think of asking anyone in the queue if they would trade $100 bills with you?

robvan wrote:

One of the things that really needs to change in Vietnam if it wants to progress, is to get rid of the pervasive public-servant mentality of providing a favour instead of a service. And let's not start about 'expediting fees'.

yeah, like that's going to happen. This is like asking the whole country to stop eating rice or drink coffee or stop pissing in the open.

pilotadamp wrote:

They took you for a sucker. There is no 'old' US currency - all notes are usually accepted.

You should have very quietly acted naive and asked to speak to the manager.

99% of visa on arrival is trouble free.

You're dead wrong! there is discrimination toward the older Benjamin. Their reason is simple, if they take your old bill then no one else (vietnamese nationals) would want them. Everyone here wants newer and crisp bills. Perhaps in the U.S. and everywhere else a Benjamin is Benjamin. New and old are the same. Not so in Vietnam.

Hypothalamus wrote:

robvan wrote:

One of the things that really needs to change in Vietnam if it wants to progress, is to get rid of the pervasive public-servant mentality of providing a favour instead of a service. And let's not start about 'expediting fees'.

yeah, like that's going to happen. This is like asking the whole country to stop eating rice or drink coffee or stop pissing in the open.

How ya goin there Hypo,    Your lucky they're just pissing.

The local blokes around Yogi's neck of the woods will squat down and take a "dump" just about anywhere.    There's a Moung Thanh development here right on the water , that they are unsuccessfully trying to sell ( and complete construction) and I regularly see the local idiots shitting on the footpath right in front of it.   They must wipe there asses with the tail of their shirt.

Tidy little neighbourhood huh.....

There is an upside to all this .   The corruption , lack of common courtesy & decency and the inconsiderate attitude of too many people are all keeping the place CHEAP.   

So a few bucks lost at the VOA window is quickly regained by the cheap cost of living.

Keep the party goin.....so long as they keep lying,cheating, stealing, pissing & crapping ,,none of us will go broke anytime soon.

Hypothalamus wrote:

customer service is a new concept in Vietnam. For a government agency it's even stranger and none existent. You either put up with that or don't come to Vietnam. Either way, they don't give a rat ass of what you do.

Oh yeah @Hypothalamus knows. This is not Sweden. There is a one-party authoritarian government. Voting is irrelevant so no 'customers' to please. Maybe in some ways better than democracy. (10% tax yeah?)

As far a crispy Benjamins, the bank teller gave mine a thorough going over two years ago. Rejected those with the tiniest tears. She accepted old and new style at that time. So if the banks don't accept the most minor damage, I think immigration is wise to also reject them.

FYI the new bill has a terrible flaw, the US Mint screwed up. The blue stripe is plastic attached to the paper substrate, look carefully (like my bank teller did) and reject the ones with tears at the interface at your bank int the states.

-JohnD- wrote:

villanova wrote:

I got my 3mth multiple business visa after an hour and a half wait. stamping fee was supposed to be 50 USD. They rejected and refused my 100USD bill because it was 'old'. I offerer to pay in Singapore dollars. So I gave them 100 SGD and returned me 15 000vnd (80 cents SGD).

50 US Dollar equals
1134425.00 Vietnamese Dong

100 Singapore Dollar equals
1639225.08 Vietnamese Dong

I should have received bout 500 000 vnd more in change. But the surly nasty lady at the counter threw my money back at me and asked me to go exchange the USD (pointing at the money changer OUTSIDE immigrations. How would I go through immigrations without the visa and come back in to requeue (another 1.5 hr wait)? Essentially she ripped me off nicely. I asked for a receipt and she gave me a pink piece of paper that showed I had paid 50 USD. very quickly she snatched my passport and barked her orders again - go and exchange your money outside immigration. Then she turned and yelled some stuff in Viet to her colleagues and they laughed. Not wanting to get taken even further for a ride I gave up and left with the officials laughing at their success.

Lesson learnt - always do your visa in your country before coming over. Officials are as corrupt as ever here and will seize every opportunity to rip you off if you . Minimise the amount of time you have to deal with Vietnamese officials (I think this applies in every situation - whether you are a backpacker or a business man).

It's too bad this happened. BUT...

1) This is your 3rd visa so you should know by now that "old" bills are often turned down here. Was it worn or just not the current style?  - 3rd visa? This is my first Visa. Where did you get the idea that I've gotten 3 visas?
2) When you are at Immigration, the exchange rate is what they say the exchange rate is. - Thank you for repeating what I just posted.
3) If you get your panties in such a wad over ~US$22, you are NEVER going to be happy here. - Will wash my panties so they they smell nice.
4) Next time would you rather they just kicked you out? It is their option as to whether or not you get in even if you have a valid visa, which you did not yet have.  - I am from Singapore, I can enter any ASEAN country for a period of 1 month without any visa. In this case I wanted a Business Visa. The other option was to go in without the business visa, not get kicked out.
5) Did you think of asking anyone in the queue if they would trade $100 bills with you? - My bill was new, there was no point in exchanging it for another new one as the immigration officer had already decided that she won't accept jack from me,

Nice to hear more people supporting this sort of behavior. Have a nice day mate.

johnross23 wrote:

Maybe a friend or relative of hers was refused entry into Singapore and then  held for hours in detention before being released and returned to VN.

It happens to some VNese woman who are traveling alone even though they they work in a bank.

Nothing to do with you, of course but poor treatment of VNese citizens by Singaporean officials could result in some "blow back".

Also, just out of curiosity, where were you entering the country, at the airport or overland? I skimmed through all the posts but didn't see where it was mentioned.

This could be true, John. Valid point, but fairly unlikely. Just my opinion!

I was entering at Tan son Nhat.

sprogger wrote:

Never had a problem with the 23 visas I have obtained this way.

I am overjoyed for you sprogger

Wxx3 wrote:

villanova wrote:

vndreamer wrote:

Villanova, ... you right"   

by saying these words, you avoid 

vndreamer, you assume too much,

i am a singaporean of chinese descent and I can pass off as a vietnamese any day. not a day goes by where i'm not mistaken for a vietnamese. 

as for your wife situation, all i can say is i just married my girlfriend of 13 years, high school lovers, and i have come to learn that no logic or reason is required to piss her off.

have a nice weekend vndreamer.

Ok Now I get it. 
With the litany of issues you have mentioned: not understanding  wife, business  paperwork delays, problems on entry to Vietnam.

I can see your frustration and understand you really just needed to vent, as opposed to wanting solutions.

So, I suppose now his is a rhetorical question, but why didn't you open your business in Singapore?

Hi wxx3, thank you for your interest in my personal life.
My wife and I are fine and I haven't been happier since I've gotten married, thank you. I was joking with vndreamer when he said he didn't understand his wife, I wanted to make him feel better.

Maybe you missed out a post where I mentioned the purpose of this is a warning, as the title suggests, to people who might be coming into Vietnam for the first time.

Business was opened in Singapore. Then Malaysia. Then Thailand and Philippines. Then Jakarta, Batam, and Surabaya in Indonesia. Vietnam is work in progress.

trueak wrote:

From my experiences, (13 trips to Vietnam) I suggest getting your visa before coming to Vietnam. The cost will balance out compare to any added fees for an visa on arrival. Part of Vietnams' people is to added on any fees they deem. It's the norm. You need to by pass putting etc. your life in the hands of custom.

Hi Trueak,

Good day to you. This is what I've been trying to tell people but we have an army of people here who are encouraging the behaviour of the infamous immigration department. Anyhow, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.