police in hcmc

Yogi007 Serial expat

948POSTS

9 years ago

phikachu wrote:
http://saigoneer.com/vietnam-news/8376-village-officials-under-fire-for-taking-donations-from-flood-victims

They paid their 5000 usd into the system to become civil servants so they feel they have paid for their right to extort the people.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/4912/wann … ay-100-mln

After reading those articles and seeing the same pattern of greed , deception and shameful behaviour in so many situations here, you've got to wonder what hope is there for these people.

When flood victims are given $25 by charity groups, and the pathetic police turn up to demand $20 for themselves .......how much lower can you get. Stealing from the poor........they should hang their little heads in shame. What a disgraceful situation to have .

I always thought that the only chance for any changes in the mindset would be generational. I don't think that will happen. As Pichachu above has shown, They are fleecing the kids at every turn. These kids are being shown that bribery and cheating pays off big time.

I've met so many Vietnamese that are convinced the only way to get rich is through deceptive means. That's not a healthy society is it.

A group of global business analysts were asked to describe countries using two words. Vietnam was listed as " opportunity squandered ".

I'll be moving on in the not too distant future and would like to return one day to hopefully see these people living their lives without all the bullshit . Hopefully.?

charmavietnam ViP

2841POSTS

9 years ago

#42

I am riding since 2008 and stopped by the CSGT 3 or 4 times and let go when talk nicely

Nobody asked bribery or threaten me to get the same even though I have no license

Just paid one time 80K for not turn the headlight on(actually that was an Yamaha with 2 lights but sometimes it's blind one due to loose connection). They gave receipt for the amount.
We cannot say all government servants are corrupted. Like many other country, here too some

gobot wrote:
I never saw that list of fines before. Changes my perception. I won't complain so much of corruption the next time I have to pay 200.000 for not blinking (only once so far and my blinker was on dammit). I won't know whether the money goes in khaki cops pocket or not, whatever, at least now I know it isn't just some arbitrary amount.

khanh44 ViP

1191POSTS

9 years ago

#43

Wald0 wrote:
khanh44 wrote:
I'm sending my 18 month daughter to school this month. I was told the school fee is $1.8 million dong/mth. My wife's siblings said that doesn't include the corruption money for each teacher of my daughter.

So if I don't pay these teachers my daughter will be ignored? Is that how it works? lol

Yes, in public schools... We run private school where parents don't need to give anything to teachers and teachers are not allowed to ask.
So many Viet think public schools are best.. have to pribe to get in, have to give money to teachers. And sure enough have to take childrens to teachers evening classes.. and pay for those..

Yes every Viet sends their kids to public school so maybe they thought private school also have to bribe teachers too. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

I think the best education is smaller class so that teachers can spend more personal time with the students and parents involvement in every aspect of the child's life.

phikachu Serial expat

352POSTS

9 years ago

#44

To become a civil servant, you have to pay a bribe to even pass the exam. The real test is whether you're going to earn money for someone higher up.

It costs 5000 usd to bribe your way into a public bank just as a bank teller. It costs about 15,000 usd to become a vietnam airlines flight attendant. 5000 to become a civil servant. They are already corrupted before being hired. The whole system relies on corruption so everyone toes the party line. Of course, in the public sector or the civil service, people can also inherit their jobs if their parents work there. Nepotism and corruption is how the party survives.

The only reason the police didn't ask you for money is because the ones that stopped you didn't speak english well enough to ask you. I've been stopped twice and and let go both times because I didn't even say hello in Vietnamese to them. If you get stopped, speak english and if you have a local with you tell them not to speak and translate anything for you. You'll have a much better chance of them letting you go. It's a confidence thing, some of the piggies are not as confident extorting foreigners because lack of english skills but don't think they wouldn't if they could somehow communicate to you to pay. They actually avoid targeting foreign tourists unless you clearly made a mistake on the road. They don't want tourists to see how corrupt the system is. Anyone else is fair game to them.

phikachu Serial expat

352POSTS

9 years ago

#45

It's hilarious how they really do look like f,.. p..s in their uniforms that match their skin tone and when they were those motorbike helmets.

http://i5.asn.im/vietnam-police-traffic-_tnjt.jpg

khanh44 ViP

1191POSTS

9 years ago

#46

Every race got it flaws. Without being kept in check Asians are corrupt in general. Just look around Vietnam's neighbouring countries and their system of government.

What government and country are not corrupt except maybe Singapore and Japan because those guys are hard core culturalist. Even South Korea keeps electing people that they think are not corrupt and turns out they are corrupt.

Yogi007 Serial expat

948POSTS

9 years ago

#47

Something strange is going on with our planet.
The Nordic countries like Denmark, Norway ,Sweden ,Finland etc and Canada & New Zealand are among the top 10 of the least corrupt countries in the world.

Most of the least corrupt countries have cold climates. Maybe the heat is getting to these people.

Yogi is an Aussie , we are up around the top 10 also. Thank Christ for that.

Vietnam is around 116 and the second worst in Asia behind Myanmar. The countries bringing up the rear are shitholes.

You begin to wonder what mankind has done to this world we live in. There didn't seem to be too much trouble until we evolved from the apes. No wars, religion, terrorism, pollution, famine etc ....things apparantly were pretty good.

Us humans seem to fuck up anything we have anything to do with.
Yep ,,we are doing well aren't we.

Bazza139 ViP

1257POSTS

9 years ago

#48

Stop pointing out all the positives!

..the '00' is for doubling as a sneaky spy...

Get back into your real role, 007

..which is.......

Yogi007 Serial expat

948POSTS

9 years ago

#49

Yes Bazza, Yogi's real reason for being here is Interesting to say the least. Unfortunately divulging that would be self incriminating. 😉

Yogi would like to correct a couple of "typo's" in the last two lines of his previous post. The "Us & we " need to be substituted with "You."

Actually,,,My name is Roy , I'm Yogi's Butler. I do all the typing via sign language from Yogi. He's very annoyed that I made the inference that he was one of us.

He's also highly amused that Bazza didn't notice that also.

Your now his 16th best friend because of that indiscretion. Given that spots 8 thru to 12 are imaginary people and some are cartoon characters your doing quite well.

Roy's 2nd behind Boo Boo.

phikachu Serial expat

352POSTS

9 years ago

#50

You mean the human race right? because there's only one and yes we can all succumb to greed even at the misery of millions.

The difference in our societies is accountability and the party in vietnam has none of this because there is no freedom of speech in Vietnam, no freedom of the press, no independent court of justice. Those thugs in power are organised criminals only answerable to themselves and they rule over millions of people, making lives a misery through bad policy and outright abuse of power.

Bazza139 ViP

1257POSTS

9 years ago

#51

Careful now...

They read these forums...

phikachu Serial expat

352POSTS

9 years ago

#52

The canh sat don't care...

The thing about the elite in Vietnam, they are actually proud of what they do. There is no shame for them, they are never going to be outed and publicly humiliated in the state controlled press. The mentality of those who embezzle in Vietnam is that they think they are smart and that it's something to be admired. The more you have embezzled, the more connected and thus powerful you are. You got to bear mind, the whole system is corrupt from top to bottom so its a status symbol to get away with so much.

I know a state bank employee who inherited not paid for her job at agribank, she told me all the staff dream of marrying police officers because of their earning potential. People who are part of the system have a very different mentality to everyone else. Ask anyone else on the streets and they will tell you how the cops are the real criminals. It's the inner party, outer party and the proles.

JenneSaisQuoi Active member

35POSTS

9 years ago

#53

Careful now or you'll get deported soon.

charmavietnam ViP

2841POSTS

9 years ago

#54

UPDATE .... UPDATE....
I can't edit my previous post in this thread so making a new one

I was stopped by CSGT on the corner of Dien Thien Hoang, Q1 today early morning on the way to Di An. One guy came and asked license, I lied - forgot to take. Then next guy who can speak English asked me 600K （bribery) but I said that I was in a hurry to go Di An court so forgot to turn the indicator on when I turned from Vo Thi Sau. Then he haggled for 300K and threatened to take my motorbike.

I told him that he has no authority to take my vehicle simply because of not turning the indicator and if you want fine from me just give me the receipt. Then he smiled and let me go. Anyway he was too lazy to take receipt book and fine me (legally he can fine 80-120K for not turn the indicator on plus 800-1200K for no license

).
New generation cops (very few) shouldn't be dirty like this. These guys never going to bring money to government treasury but only to fill their pockets. This is the first time cops asked bribery bravely. So guys, pls know your rights and remit the fine with a receipt which will surely go to the government, in case you are wrong.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#55

Not using the indicator is their latest way of making a buck. Even on roads where the road has to merge, such as AH1, these grubby turds get you for not indicating to merge right. You can only go one way as they have split the road, there are arrows showing go straight, yet these beige Mafia sit there week in week out and collect millions.

phikachu Serial expat

352POSTS

9 years ago

#56

They'd have to extradite me from the UK on trumped up charges of "abusing democratic freedoms to plot against the state" before deporting me out of the country. But they usually reserve that for Vietnamese bloggers who have a following and pose a threat to them. I feel sorry for those people, they get sentences of about 7 years but really they're kept locked up indefinitely in solitary or until they cut a deal to live in exile in the US.

Me, I'm a nobody.

phikachu Serial expat

352POSTS

9 years ago

#57

tbh, in the all the times I have been stopped they've always let me go saying...he's a foreigner in Vietnamese to their colleagues. They just wave me to carry on. I look vietnamese but don't speak it. I have never been or seen a foreigner get stung by the police and I've also thought that they are worried about scaring away the tourists. I've seen plenty of locals having to pay up though.

khanh44 ViP

1191POSTS

9 years ago

#58

Ask any driver and they will tell you Dong Nai CSGT is notorious for giving out lots of tickets and high fines. HCMC they say is more lenient and fine is less.

The police seem to target indicators and lane markings a lot.

I've never been ticketed yet. Today I came across 2 CSGT at a spot my wife always tells me to put my right indicator on. It's a right bend in the road. There is no street to the right to turn into but evidently if we are going around a bend/curve we have to put our indicators on. My indicators are loud and annoying but they heard them.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#59

That also do that in Nhon Thach.

gobot ViP

1430POSTS

9 years ago

#60

In the states, the profession that unearths most corruption are the "Investigative Journalists". Everyone likes to read a good story about scandal because Muricans are so holier than thou about morality. Boosts ratings too. So just think how different it would be if reporters had half the bloodhound in them. All they have to do is follow the "suspects" home at night, take pictures of the villas and cars, pictures of their kids getting on international school buses, then add it up.
Thanks to smart phone cameras, at least we get to see some of 'em behaving badly at traffic stops on facebook.

JenneSaisQuoi Active member

35POSTS

9 years ago

#61

gobot wrote:
In the states, the profession that unearths most corruption are the "Investigative Journalists". Everyone likes to read a good story about scandal because Muricans are so holier than thou about morality. Boosts ratings too. So just think how different it would be if reporters had half the bloodhound in them. All they have to do is follow the "suspects" home at night, take pictures of the villas and cars, pictures of their kids getting on international school buses, then add it up.
Thanks to smart phone cameras, at least we get to see some of 'em behaving badly at traffic stops on facebook.

aren't those 'journalists' called paparazzi?

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#62

gobot wrote:
In the states, the profession that unearths most corruption are the "Investigative Journalists". Everyone likes to read a good story about scandal because Muricans are so holier than thou about morality. Boosts ratings too. So just think how different it would be if reporters had half the bloodhound in them. All they have to do is follow the "suspects" home at night, take pictures of the villas and cars, pictures of their kids getting on international school buses, then add it up.
Thanks to smart phone cameras, at least we get to see some of 'em behaving badly at traffic stops on facebook.

Yeah but it won't happen, it's too ingrained now in their government system. It could be worse, it could be Sudan.

gobot ViP

1430POSTS

9 years ago

#63

JenneSaisQuoi wrote:
gobot wrote:
In the states, the profession that unearths most corruption are the "Investigative Journalists". Everyone likes to read a good story about scandal because Muricans are so holier than thou about morality. Boosts ratings too. So just think how different it would be if reporters had half the bloodhound in them. All they have to do is follow the "suspects" home at night, take pictures of the villas and cars, pictures of their kids getting on international school buses, then add it up.
Thanks to smart phone cameras, at least we get to see some of 'em behaving badly at traffic stops on facebook.

aren't those 'journalists' called paparazzi?

No of course not. These real journalists uncover crime and win Pulitzers. IMHO freedom of the press in western counties is fundamental to having a government accountable to the people. Authoritarian governments know this so they control the press to hide their corruption.
Paparazzi are mercenaries who violate personal freedoms of others and provide no value to society.

gobot ViP

1430POSTS

9 years ago

#64

colinoscapee wrote:
Yeah but it won't happen, it's too ingrained now in their government system. It could be worse, it could be Sudan.

It would be an interesting topic to study, how corruption changes as economies grow. I am guessing there has been some improvement here since the 1990s. Younger people are more aware of 'western ways' because internet. Maybe take a couple generations? South Korea, Singapore, Thailand were just third world countries 2-3 generations ago. There is still corruption at least at high levels in South Korea, and Thailand has gone full military, but I don't think that, I assume, at the lower levels of society, I doubt that police and building inspectors customarily expect bribery in Seoul and Bangkok. Perhaps they are paid a wage they can support a family on there.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#65

Even if they were paid a higher salary, they will still want bribes. I know of a high ranking copper who has a couple of million dollar homes in Saigon, all this on a meager wage of 15 million a month.

Yogi007 Serial expat

948POSTS

9 years ago

#66

I reckon you could come back here in 10 years and they'd still be rolling around in the mud shafting one another.

The justice system, the govt depts, the banks, the schools & universities , even the hospitals want a sling or bribe to do what they're already paid to do. Even getting a job in those areas these people have to bribe there way in. Disgraceful.

You'd think education and generational change might fix the problem, but that's rotten to the core as well. The students have to pay bribes to get into school. Pay bribes to get a pass mark, Universities are "selling" degrees etc ...it's a joke.

So there goes the "generational change " theory. These people have it bred into them that it's all Lie, Cheat & Steal here. They know nothing else.

I've said before, I've met so many Vietnamese that honestly think the only way to get ahead is by deceptive dishonest means. Sad huh...

And why would they think otherwise.?? All they see around them is people that got their wealth by basically being criminals.

But they're not alone in this world, they're are plenty of other fucked up societies around. They're at 116th on the world corruption index, at least there's a few behind them.

Ah well, the upside is that it keeps things cheap & classless for us expats.

Yogi is sitting back in a nice apartment with ocean views and paying three fifths of fuckall for it. Food and utilities ....peanuts. It's a good life for us "ring ins"

Next time I see one of those little green guys I'll buy him a beer and tell him what a wonderful place this is and keep up the good work.

Yogi007 Serial expat

948POSTS

9 years ago

#67

Yogi's rant part 2.
Just took a break to make a cup of milo.

Yogi grew up in a small country town of about 1500 people.
(This ain't a long story by the way, save the popcorn) 😀

The people we always looked up to as our community leaders, those dudes referred to as local dignitaries. The Priest, the police Sargent, the school headmaster, the local solicitor, the local accountant, the shire council engineer, etc...

They all wound up in Prison. 😆😆

At the end of the day if those blokes couldn't fuck it or steal it , they weren't interested in it.

Ah...people in high places. Ya gotta watch em.

khanh44 ViP

1191POSTS

9 years ago

#68

yeah cops in Western countries are just as corrupt. Except instead of bribes they ticket people so that they can rack up overtime going to court.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#69

khanh44 wrote:
yeah cops in Western countries are just as corrupt. Except instead of bribes they ticket people so that they can rack up overtime going to court.

Now that's funny.

THIGV ViP

4427POSTS

9 years ago

#70

colinoscapee wrote:
khanh44 wrote:
yeah cops in Western countries are just as corrupt. Except instead of bribes they ticket people so that they can rack up overtime going to court.

Now that's funny.

But true.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#71

THIGV wrote:
colinoscapee wrote:
khanh44 wrote:
yeah cops in Western countries are just as corrupt. Except instead of bribes they ticket people so that they can rack up overtime going to court.

Now that's funny.

But true.

Geez talk about Dumb and Dumber, police don't go to court if a ticket is written unless the person receiving the ticket wants to contest it. Most people get a ticket and pay it, there is no court hearing, what planet do you two live on.

Never had a cop ask me for money in 30 years of driving in Australia,come to VN and that's the first thing they ask, so no, they are not as corrupt.Maybe you are on some type of medication to actually believe that.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#72

http://www.thanhniennews.com/society/po … -1928.html

Note where it says 30% of people in VN admit to paying bribes, whilst 1% in Australia, thats a vast difference. Maybe in North America it's different to the rest of the Western world.

khanh44 ViP

1191POSTS

9 years ago

#73

Australia don't have court hearings for traffic ticket?

In Canada so much people contest traffic tickets that it can take more than 2 years before it goes to court. If it takes more than 2 years you can claim 11.b defense that it took too long and you forgot what happened or if the police that ticket you don't show up the ticket gets thrown out.

What happens most time when people attend court is the prosecutor will plea bargain with the offenders for a reduced fine to save the court time and money.
I had an officer ticket me once for speeding around a bend. I knew I wasn't speeding at 90 km/h in the city as he claimed on my 250cc scooter. He straight up told me to take it to court and they will reduce the fine. I took it to court and they gave me a Vietnamese translator (I don't understand Vietnamese well and never requested it) and they reduced the fine from $120 to $10.

Both the translator and officer made some money that day on my inconvenience.

Corruption using your authority to make money. Yeah I agree it's not frequent and direct in the open like Vietnam where every traffic police is corrupt.

Guest2023 Guest

0POSTS

9 years ago

#74

On the other side of the coin are the people who actually go to court to waste time and it costs the taxpayer money. Unfortunately corruption is everywhere, but to say it's as common in the West was the part I couldn't agree with.

khanh44 ViP

1191POSTS

9 years ago

#75

The corruption in Western world is not in your face but it's similar to most corruptions around the world. It always involves the elites and the ones that wield power. Money is never direct but circular so it's not bribery but they call it kickbacks.

Most people won't see the corruption in the developed countries because people only want to hear the 1 big corruption and forget or don't care about the petty corruptions.
And people in Western society are not interested in politics until election day comes around. These are corruptions with tax payers money that get laundried into politicians.
Businesses spend hundreds of thousands to fund someone's political campaign or just a dinner to hear them speak because in the end they expect a kickback.

There's so much of these 'kickbacks' and accounting expense tricks that happen behind the scene that it puts the little guys and business at a competitive disadvantage. Stuff like police's getting kickbacks for all sorts of things like calling their own tow trucks and politicians giving contracts and jobs as kickbacks and to friends and family.

But that's why I like Vietnam. Western world it's the big corporations that succeed and Vietnam you can have lots of small businesses thriving. Ever been to Canada? Good luck opening a coffee shop. There's always long lineups at all time of day for Tim Horton's coffee and sometimes Starbucks too. Opening retail? Good luck competing with Wal-mart and dollar store.

Just look at Uber and the billions they've spent just to fight these regulation corruptions that the cities and taxis industry hold.

phikachu Serial expat

352POSTS

9 years ago

#76

I know a state media journalist who went to the UK to do a masters. She got a full scholarship including living expenses so she is really smart and not your typical princeling daughter of a high ranking commie. Whilst here she wrote a lot about how bad it was in Vietnam especially how the government treat bloggers and farmers, probably hoping for a white knight to come save her so she didn't have to go back. Now back in Vietnam, I somehow don't think she is as vocal and probably wouldn't repeat some of the things she was writing. Many people, especially journalists tread a fine line. They are not only censored by the state but practice self censorship to avoid being out of a job or worse, put in prison.

I think it's common for those who have travelled outside of Vietnam to study to gain a new perspective on how their country is really being run... like a prison.

Students going abroad, suddenly realise they are now living in a country with free speech without retribution and question why they can't do it in Vietnam without being beaten up.

For example, this guy became a hit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AiMGTRV2LY

phikachu Serial expat

352POSTS

9 years ago

#77

In regards to the police, It's not even comparable. They'd probably arrest you for trying to offer them money here.

The police in Vietnam is an instrument of the regime to bully and keep the proles in check. They are getting increasingly smart in their tactics of intimidation. Skip to the 3 minutes mark of this and you'll see the police pull back and watch as group of them without their uniforms do the intimidating and beating. I've seen this tactic for myself during the formosa protest in Hanoi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1KghqASDXU

It's all about accountability.

-JohnD- Serial expat

257POSTS

9 years ago

#78

If you want honest police, you're SOL in most of the world.

It could be worse... you could be non-white in the US and get murdered instead of shaken down.

nick4946 Active member

41POSTS

9 years ago

#79

Don't let them bully you. They will not take the bike, there is no money in that for them.
Stand your ground and refuse to pay 200,000, about 100,000 is enough. Not right I know but this is a corrupt country and it is the system here.

-JohnD- Serial expat

257POSTS

9 years ago

#80

nick4946 wrote:
Don't let them bully you. They will not take the bike, there is no money in that for them.
Stand your ground and refuse to pay 200,000, about 100,000 is enough. Not right I know but this is a corrupt country and it is the system here.

Sorry, they WILL take the bike. I've seen it happen.

Maybe there's no immediate money for them, but they get the satisfaction of screwing you over 'cause you wouldn't part with a lousy US$9.

NOT worth taking the chance.