How are black americans treated in Cairo Egypt?

1POSTS

16 years ago

I am planning to move to Egypt in the fall for a new teaching job. I am concern if being a Black person from the states is an issue. Are Black Americans welcomed in the expat community?
Also I need to find a hair salon that caters to black hair.

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campingguy Active member

69POSTS

16 years ago

One more note - male hair is generally done by males and females by females. Sometimes for females they have an area where a woman will prepare the person such as shampooing, etc. and then a male stylist will do the actual cutting/styling. The lady attendant will do everything else. Males coming into contact with females is carefully controlled and done according to Islamic rules and teaching.

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secretagentwilly Active member

50POSTS

16 years ago

man...that's some good information...something I would've never thought to ask...it's just amazing the stuff you have to consider when deciding to relocate outside your comfort zone.

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eliwa New member

8POSTS

16 years ago

Black people are treated like white people in Egypt,
we don't make a differe for these things !
what we take care about its colour is the attitude , is your attitude is white or black !, this is the most important,
also we have black egyptian,
man you are welcome in Egypt, good luck,

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valibilic ViP

522POSTS

16 years ago

kuhlknits wrote:
I am planning to move to Egypt in the fall for a new teaching job. I am concern if being a Black person from the states is an issue. Are Black Americans welcomed in the expat community?
Also I need to find a hair salon that caters to black hair.

Maybe a problem of tolerance could be in Eastern Europe! But here, a lot of, are black!
But maybe this land has a problem with dark skin, even women fight to be whiter, most of skin cremes are for whitening,and in the meantime, I fight to be little bronzed, considering it more trendy!

teach05 Member

1POSTS

14 years ago

Hey(Kuhlknits), Did you move to Cairo? If so how are Black Americans treated in Cairo? I am an African American (from Chi town-- what's up!)planning to teach in Cairo in September. So if you made it to Cairo anything you'd like to share I'd love to hear. Thanks.

hayden2056 Member

20POSTS

14 years ago

to be honest, 95% Egyptian people are not racists.However,you have to be prepared,cos there are some racists with Caucasian-worship complex here.I was called yellow monkey in street since I m an Asian here and there was a company telling me that my salary should be lower since I m not Caucasian.Anyway, just ignore them and enjoy your life.there is no reason to be unhappy for some stupid people

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Harmonie ViP

19273POSTS

14 years ago

Hello kuhlknits and welcome to Expat.com!

Don't worry and be happy.

Regards,
Harmonie.

mr.hatahitos Serial expat

443POSTS

14 years ago

#10

BLACK????????
no for sure,there is nothing like that,,,,all ppl in Egypt are the same,,,i didn't hear in my life about any problem about black and white

Rozypearl Contributor

152POSTS

14 years ago

#11

Hey kuhlknits, so u're a teacher? I'm a teacher too, in an international school in Cairo. Which school r u going to work in and when will u start, August? Don't worry about having problems with colour here. Like everybody, I will also tell u that it's ok cos we have white, black and tanned Egyptians here. However women do like it better when they're whiter, lol, cos the men r more attracted to them, other than that part, there r no worries. I think u will like it here and everyone will treat u nicely or at least almost everyone. U will also enjoy spending time on the expat-blog site and in the outings we arrange. Hope to meet soon.
Rania

mero928 ViP

350POSTS

14 years ago

#12

No colors matter in Egypt

Take this for serious

1 member reacted to this post

The Londoner Contributor

111POSTS

14 years ago

#13

I'm black and have had no incidents of bad treatment due to my colour, but I HAVE had comments made - always by guys. I've blogged about this on my blog, but I'm a woman who will defend herself if needed and last night, as I walked home a guy said, "Aywa chocolata, ya asal chocolata" - now some women may see it as a compliment, but in no way do I see being called 'chocolate' a compliment.

In short, do not be fooled in thinking that there is absolutely no racism here in Egypt, because that is just wishful thinking. It is here (just like in any country), although it isn't prevalent or explicit. As with any guy who makes such idiotic and ignorant comments, I let them know that I don't accept it, just as no one should.

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mero928 ViP

350POSTS

14 years ago

#14

Dear The Londoner,

I know these words can annoy any female. but it is not fair to call it "racism" which is very bad term to be used in such case.
we can say it is annoying U but not that racism , wish u got what I mean.

The Londoner Contributor

111POSTS

14 years ago

#15

mero928 wrote:
Dear The Londoner,

I know these words can annoy any female. but it is not fair to call it "racism" which is very bad term to be used in such case.
we can say it is annoying U but not that racism , wish u got what I mean.

It would be lovely to give it a nicer name, but when someone is verbally harassed based on the colour/shade of their skin, that is indeed racism, not just annoying and not just because I am a female, because my female Egyptian friends do not get called in this way.

I have my own way of dealing with such guys, but my intention was to highlight that Egypt (just like any country in the world) is not perfect. And these occurrences have been from ignorant men and not the majority.

3 members reacted to this post

samwelbeck New member

8POSTS

14 years ago

#16

I'm black and I I blogged about it too - so I guess it must be an issue - Is Egypt Racist? - Click Here - but to be fair it is not a big issue. Racism is a tiny tiny issue here, not like in the UK (where I am from) or USA where it can be seen on a vast scale with whole towns and areas unsafe for blacks to walk alone.

There are not as many naturalised black and white Egyptians as you would get naturalised Brits or Americans - so the concept of a person who is a completely different race STILL being Egyptian does not exist. So An Egyptian will always take notice of your colour but not in a bad way - just to say "oh...you are not from here...where are you from then?"

The problem starts with the fact that a few Egyptians have fallen for the stereo types. So "black" means African - bit poor - bit uncivilised. "white" means western - bit rich - full of knowledge and sophistication. This is only a minority of Egyptians and in my experience it is the more wealthy but untravelled ones who sometimes have this view.

Most Egyptians are very welcoming. Religion is more important to an Egyptian than race. It is about your character, attitude and look on life not your colour. Egyptians value generosity, kindness and good manners much more than race. If you treat them well, they will return the same. So go to a stranger when you get here (a man if you are a man, a women if you are a woman) and smile and ask for help - you will see how helpful and generous Egyptians are. In my opinion one of the most helpful and kind people on earth.

Just like Indians, some Egyptian women like to be fair of skin. They think it is more beautiful and they say its because of their men, but I have seen many Egyptian men going for black women and marrying them. So I guess a beautiful girl is a beautiful girl no matter what her colour. With time I think this will disappear especially as the nubian Egyptian women are seen more in Cairo and they are generally of amazing beauty as is their land.

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Beardmore Member

10POSTS

14 years ago

#17

I think colour is not blind. I am conscious that there are a large variety of skin creams to lighten, and only a few times I have seen women with such heavy white makeup it is quite disturbing. Egyptians DO value religion more than colour and their teachings do not accept inequality on the basis of skin colour. However to keep it real like the person who took offence to be likened to chocolate I am with him/her all the way. In the UK it is not tolerated, neither should it be. I find the references to advertising as 'fair and lovely' or 'be white' sickening, as there is not anything lovely about it. However being from the UK all the laws on equality are tokenism and unfortunately as everywhere it does exist. As a rule, I find more Egyptians to be kind hearted,treat women as equals, but different. They are complete gentlemen, which may upset some feminists BUT women are respected and in some ways cherished which is rare. As for racism, the few are not aware they are. Hair products such as Dark and lovely are available in good superstores, though the range may look small, do not forget Egyptian products may be suitable too. I hope you grow to love it here, as I have and any racism you may or may not encounter, will be from very few people, I hope. When we were in England, my husband suffered enough racism himself, in comparison to here he is slightly fairer skinned, which will not last long I am sure. Myself I am upset by the fair and lovely attitude, I do not condone it and ask why. There are good skin care products with Shea Butter etc, which I use and I am white. Good luck with your job, I am sure you will make friends quickly and hope you enjoy your stay here. Remember as someone said earlier, and it is true. Egyptians are warm kind hearted people who are particularly hospitable to foreigners. Good luck!

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The Londoner Contributor

111POSTS

14 years ago

#18

The last two comments sum things up VERY nicely. Not much to be added.

1 member reacted to this post

indobe Active member

88POSTS

14 years ago

#19

mero928 wrote:
Dear The Londoner,

I know these words can annoy any female. but it is not fair to call it "racism" which is very bad term to be used in such case.
we can say it is annoying U but not that racism , wish u got what I mean.

Whatever you say it racism or annoying. Im treated badly here that it seems because of my Asian look. Amazingly, Ive never got this uncomfortable feeling when I was in South Africa. I dont think its about the colour. My skin colour is brown. Ive seen that some Egyptians with exactly the same colour as mine. But the race, makes the difference. On the first days at school here in Egypt, my son came back home with tears because he was bullied with words chinois, chinois... What is that ?? Who teach them to do that ? Dont say that 95% Egyptians are not racist. I can see the difference when Im with my husband that is white. We are/ I am treated much better. Anyway, now I dont care ! I love my self. It doesnt mean I hate you, Egyptians but I deserve to be happy wherever I am, no matter my colour no matter my look. Its not important.

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GuestPoster1004 Guest

0POSTS

14 years ago

#20

Asalamu Alaykom,

I'm a white American Muslim living and working here as a teacher. I see the racism which Egyptians are quick to dispell as a way of saving face with the outside world community. Yes, I agree that the correct response is that Islam teaches us that we are all one. That's the ideal. What's the reality? I mean...why should people moving here bother with asking this forum if we only answer with the way things SHOULD be instead of the way they are. Racism means people are treated differently on the basis of their skin color. The Londoner was noticed for her skin color because she is not really viewed as a woman but rather as a CHOCOLATE woman. Hey, that's racism. And it's racism when we congratulate a new dad that his baby is light-skinned. It's racism when the new mom nervously asks guests if the baby's nose is too wide. I hear the comments about "good hair" and "bad hair". And I know that I get the world at my feet for being white here. I also see how a black man walks into the same store and gets greeted and treated well enough but not like he actually has the same money to spend. Now, how would any of this matter to kuhlknits? I don't know. But, for me, I sure would like to know the truth of a place and a people rather than just the happy talk.

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LMarie Member

1POSTS

14 years ago

#21

let me know what you learn, as I am preparing for a career change in Egypt as well. I too, am a black american female. Well, I am preparing myself in not being able to find a hair salon. If you do locate one, share that as well.

-Leslie

Stumble_On Active member

43POSTS

14 years ago

#22

Wow, clearly this thread has struck a chord with people. I find it interesting that a lot of the early discussion speaks of race in terms of a false binary, namely black and white. Racism here definitely exists, but as Samwelbeck pointed out (and I agree) its not the same type of really depraved hateful forms of racism as in the USA and Britain where histories of slavery continue to permeate the national consciousness. Ive definitely experienced a fair share of racism here which I believe is due to ignorance of other cultures along with severe internalized racism as a result of Egypts colonial history. Concepts of multiculturalism or interculturalism are not common here. Mostly though, I agree that Egyptians are lovely friendly people with a real curiosity about the world and where youre from (which is totally cool by me). I would say that what is most annoying is that youre never inconspicuous here. Im used to walking around in public in Canada and being able to just melt into the crowd. Here, Im a spectacle no matter where I am. If youre a woman of colour, I think its even more difficult because then not only do you have to contend with potential racism, but also sexism which I find is rampant here. Its frankly exhausting to be in public sometimes. I think over time you just deal with it and try to find the humour of the situation and take it in stride. Find the humour and surround yourself with good people whom you can have a drink with, a laugh with and a good rant with. Good luck to all of you who are moving here. Its definitely a character building exercise.

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tweetie Member

1POSTS

14 years ago

#23

Interesting read...hmmmm. I'm black and have been living here for 10 years and I must say Egyptians are very friendly people. However, the racism here kind of surprised me. First of all most got quite upset if I mentioned that they are Africans (well Geographically it's the case)...so I understood that for the Africa means black and this is no good! Then they call out endlessly in the street "chocolata" "samara"...even kids do this and they have parents or adults who find it quite funny...to my dismay of course.
I think the constant reference to color is racist...
So let's not pretend it's not racist here...it is like everywhere else but you will meet many really nice people.

P.S I was once looking for a job and although the manager found my CV impressive he was in trouble when it came to decision making. So he told me, listen, you have a great CV, a European passport which entitles you to a good job and salary only hiccup is you're black and the black guys here get paid less. It didn't really matter to me as I was only looking for a job to stay busy as my kids had all started school...lol!!!

Anyway, I'm sure you will have lots of fun...There are more good people than racists here...and the climate is WONDERFUL...

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Shorouk Contributor

187POSTS

14 years ago

#24

samwelbeck wrote:
I'm black and I I blogged about it too - so I guess it must be an issue - Is Egypt Racist? - Click Here - but to be fair it is not a big issue. Racism is a tiny tiny issue here, not like in the UK (where I am from) or USA where it can be seen on a vast scale with whole towns and areas unsafe for blacks to walk alone.

There are not as many naturalised black and white Egyptians as you would get naturalised Brits or Americans - so the concept of a person who is a completely different race STILL being Egyptian does not exist. So An Egyptian will always take notice of your colour but not in a bad way - just to say "oh...you are not from here...where are you from then?"

The problem starts with the fact that a few Egyptians have fallen for the stereo types. So "black" means African - bit poor - bit uncivilised. "white" means western - bit rich - full of knowledge and sophistication. This is only a minority of Egyptians and in my experience it is the more wealthy but untravelled ones who sometimes have this view.

Most Egyptians are very welcoming. Religion is more important to an Egyptian than race. It is about your character, attitude and look on life not your colour. Egyptians value generosity, kindness and good manners much more than race. If you treat them well, they will return the same. So go to a stranger when you get here (a man if you are a man, a women if you are a woman) and smile and ask for help - you will see how helpful and generous Egyptians are. In my opinion one of the most helpful and kind people on earth.

Just like Indians, some Egyptian women like to be fair of skin. They think it is more beautiful and they say its because of their men, but I have seen many Egyptian men going for black women and marrying them. So I guess a beautiful girl is a beautiful girl no matter what her colour. With time I think this will disappear especially as the nubian Egyptian women are seen more in Cairo and they are generally of amazing beauty as is their land.

samwelbeck,This sums it up real well for me.

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Shorouk Contributor

187POSTS

14 years ago

#25

tweetie wrote:
Interesting read...hmmmm. I'm black and have been living here for 10 years and I must say Egyptians are very friendly people. However, the racism here kind of surprised me. First of all most got quite upset if I mentioned that they are Africans (well Geographically it's the case)...so I understood that for the Africa means black and this is no good! Then they call out endlessly in the street "chocolata" "samara"...even kids do this and they have parents or adults who find it quite funny...to my dismay of course.
I think the constant reference to color is racist...
So let's not pretend it's not racist here...it is like everywhere else but you will meet many really nice people.

P.S I was once looking for a job and although the manager found my CV impressive he was in trouble when it came to decision making. So he told me, listen, you have a great CV, a European passport which entitles you to a good job and salary only hiccup is you're black and the black guys here get paid less. It didn't really matter to me as I was only looking for a job to stay busy as my kids had all started school...lol!!!

Anyway, I'm sure you will have lots of fun...There are more good people than racists here...and the climate is WONDERFUL...

I'm not surprised by this at all, we still maintain a sort of cast system. lets see we have doormen,maids,drivers,gardeners and other domestic help.And its really said to admit, that many are doomed to this futile type life along with their children and grandchildren.Discrimination takes place at all levels of society within Egypt. In general Egypt is truly and amazing place with lots to offer and to learn about.

I honestly suspect great change can now come to Egypt and all its peoples.

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mero928 ViP

350POSTS

14 years ago

#26

samwelbeck wrote:
I'm black and I I blogged about it too - so I guess it must be an issue - Is Egypt Racist? - Click Here - but to be fair it is not a big issue. Racism is a tiny tiny issue here, not like in the UK (where I am from) or USA where it can be seen on a vast scale with whole towns and areas unsafe for blacks to walk alone.

There are not as many naturalised black and white Egyptians as you would get naturalised Brits or Americans - so the concept of a person who is a completely different race STILL being Egyptian does not exist. So An Egyptian will always take notice of your colour but not in a bad way - just to say "oh...you are not from here...where are you from then?"

The problem starts with the fact that a few Egyptians have fallen for the stereo types. So "black" means African - bit poor - bit uncivilised. "white" means western - bit rich - full of knowledge and sophistication. This is only a minority of Egyptians and in my experience it is the more wealthy but untravelled ones who sometimes have this view.

Most Egyptians are very welcoming. Religion is more important to an Egyptian than race. It is about your character, attitude and look on life not your colour. Egyptians value generosity, kindness and good manners much more than race. If you treat them well, they will return the same. So go to a stranger when you get here (a man if you are a man, a women if you are a woman) and smile and ask for help - you will see how helpful and generous Egyptians are. In my opinion one of the most helpful and kind people on earth.

Just like Indians, some Egyptian women like to be fair of skin. They think it is more beautiful and they say its because of their men, but I have seen many Egyptian men going for black women and marrying them. So I guess a beautiful girl is a beautiful girl no matter what her colour. With time I think this will disappear especially as the nubian Egyptian women are seen more in Cairo and they are generally of amazing beauty as is their land.

U hit the nail (thumbs up)

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scorpmoh123 Member

13POSTS

14 years ago

#27

HAHA..

NICE POST

valibilic wrote:
kuhlknits wrote:
I am planning to move to Egypt in the fall for a new teaching job. I am concern if being a Black person from the states is an issue. Are Black Americans welcomed in the expat community?
Also I need to find a hair salon that caters to black hair.

Maybe a problem of tolerance could be in Eastern Europe! But here, a lot of, are black!
But maybe this land has a problem with dark skin, even women fight to be whiter, most of skin cremes are for whitening,and in the meantime, I fight to be little bronzed, considering it more trendy!

1 member reacted to this post

scorpmoh123 Member

13POSTS

14 years ago

#28

sure you are welcome

kuhlknits wrote:
I am planning to move to Egypt in the fall for a new teaching job. I am concern if being a Black person from the states is an issue. Are Black Americans welcomed in the expat community?
Also I need to find a hair salon that caters to black hair.

1 member reacted to this post

scorpmoh123 Member

13POSTS

14 years ago

#29

i just want to clarify a littel thing, most of the Egyptians think that black people are funny people and have a high sipriets and this according to our close relation with Sudan country, which they are
70% from the Egyptian people when they see a dark black person they think that he/she from Sudan, and they start having fun with him even with funny words, tring to make him reply with fun words too

ineed2know Member

1POSTS

13 years ago

#30

My family and would love to visit Egypt in the beginning of the year. I am doing my research and found this blog. My question is how are Black American believers in Christ treated in Egypt? I would really prefer to receive an answer from a person of color's out-look on my question as it would be easier for me to relate the answer, (i.e. Native Egyptians, Black or Other) No offense! Though at the same time I will be open to the opinions of others. Thanks!

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Daxter Member

3POSTS

13 years ago

#31

To the African-American Christian whose family would love to visit Egypt at the beginning of the year. Enjoy yourselves on the trip. It will be time well spent. I visited for a week last June and had a great time. Egyptians are very friendly, and many of their families have Black lineages, with many looking black and white within the same households. A nice Egyptian girl was flirting with me at my hotel, but I'm Christian and married, so I smiled graciously while she seemed puzzled. The next time I saw her I gave her a look that said, "you're very attractive, but I'm married." I encountered three Egyptian Black heritage women who looked and behaved just like Black-American women I know. One was very light skinned but the heritage came thru as we were talking--she reminded me of cousins of mine; another looked just like a woman I dated in high school and a third one had an attitude, in Luxor, as I was trying to behave suave, yet distant, and she gave me a look like, "who does he think he is?" Literally, had her hands on her hips about to let her backbone slip. Egyptians are so mixed that the black-white heritage thing is really not an issue.

In Luxor, where the Valley of the Kings is, the population is almost 80% Black. My tour guide was chocolate brown and we placed our arms next each other and had a great laugh. He seemed saddened, though, as I expressed my dismay at he and other Blacks going along with labeling Blacks in Aswan as Nubian, while the people on the tomb walls of the Valley of the Kings look like the so-called Nubians (Black Egyptians). I explained the semantic manipulation, but he seemed to inhabit a psychological zone of enjoying the thought of being more Arab than African. I visited with him and one of his Arab-looking friends at the friends shop and mentioned I was a practicing Christian, as we drank tea, and they were cool with it.

At my hotel in Luxor, one of the bellhops, a big honey-colored Black guy, gave me a biiig hug literally picking me up and said, "Welcome home, bother, welcome home." He was really sincere and as I attempted to give him a tip as he took my bags into the room he declined. Upon looking out my window and seeing that I had a parking lot view he brightened up and said he'd see if he could get me a room on the other side of the hotel overlooking the Nile, which he did.

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GuestPoster1004 Guest

0POSTS

13 years ago

#32

Asalamu Alaykom,

To clarify: living in Egypt is different than visiting Egypt. Any tourist in Egypt as seen as one color: green! Every tourist is going to be treated well because that's bread on the table. Nobody has any problem with what religion you are as you tour the sights. The biggest respect will be given to those who SHOW the most respect to this country and its people.

As for living here, the racism exists and I see and feel it as an outsider making my home here. I know that the Egyptians who comment with "there's no problem," don't see it as well because the racism is ingrained. That's true in ALL cultures. There's big money in "Fair and Lovely" skin whitener. A man gets complimented on his light-skinned bride-to-be and kidded if she's dark. Dressing up in blackface for school costume parties is usual. Those "jokes" that scorpmoh mentions above are probably not as funny to the recipient as he thinks. Watch any Egyptian comedy to see how blacks are depicted. This has nothing to do with Islam, by the way, but rather with Western influences brought here by the British.

Coming to Egypt as an dark-skinned ex-pat has some unique challenges which I have not had to face as a light-skinned ex-pat. I'm not saying that it can't be done. Of course it can and should be done if the desire is there. It's good, however, to see what the truth is before making the decision to come. No one is going to hurt you for your color. On the other hand, you might have some strange comments and attitude to sort through and address. Best wishes to anyone, of any color, brave enough to become an ex-pat in Egypt.

Oh, and Daxter, "a nice Egyptian girl" doesn't hang out at a hotel and flirt with men. There's another name for that.

4 members reacted to this post

travelguy Member

3POSTS

13 years ago

#33

Hello, Did you ever make it to Egypt? If so how as your time. I'm here now. And let me tell you...anyone who says there is no racism here must be living in a bubble.

GuestPoster1004 Guest

0POSTS

13 years ago

#34

no discrimination in egypt

RaymondPhD Member

23POSTS

13 years ago

#35

There are always the comical cases of Egyptian caucasian wannabees who try to aspire to an image that all Egyptians should be of pale white to yellow compexions.... they are probably the ones that resent any skin colour darker than yellow, but on the whole Egyptians are so preoccupied with just trying to live a decent life that they do not particularly care about your colour as long as you respect their culture and values. It is always sad to walk through Cairo and see women with faces that have been damaged by the use of bleach products. The sad true is that those same women would not be seen as "white" by anglo caucasians in europe or elsewhere in the world. And could someone please tell the television companies to put some Black Egyptians in their Soap dramas...

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dasin2day Member

1POSTS

13 years ago

#36

As a Black African, who lived in Egypt for a period of 15 years, studied in Al-Azhar and later worked with the Egyptian Media. Honestly, I don't see Egyptians as "racists", I always feel at home with them, they are more concern about religion than colour, they respect your intelligence and general knowledge while discussing with them. However, there are very few ignorants among them who always try to link Black people with the HUNGER of the 1980s which occured in Ethiopia and the Sudan conflicts that led to sudanese migration to some parts of Egypt. Therefore, whenever they see a black man/woman they start calling them [Sudany?] meaning "are you a sudanese?" or they will start saying in Arabic [Misra Kareemah!] meaning "Egypt is generous!" to have accommodated the hungry people. This is painful sometimes, but if you know that its the unconsiderable number of the Egyptian populace that do this, I believe you would not bother yourself about them. More importantly, the majority of Egyptians are very hospitable and generous human beings so long as you do not porknose yourself into their local politics. This is an attestation from somebody thet lives in Egypt from 1988 to 2003.

1 member reacted to this post

biffy Serial expat

434POSTS

13 years ago

#37

@dasin3day

But I would have to point out that the Egypt of today is not the Egypt of 1988 or even 2003
Thaings have changed here and to be honest not for the better

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GuestPoster1004 Guest

0POSTS

13 years ago

#38

don`t worry, the oldest land of civilization is welcoming every body on it......... have a nice stay

GuestPoster1004 Guest

0POSTS

13 years ago

#39

I am of Panamanian & Puerto Rican (father Puerto Rican & mother Panama). My husband is black and we are talking about relocating our family. Reading some of the comments I see if you're black is not to bad but what about me? My skin is fair but besides that how are Puerto Ricans treated? Thank you in advance!