Your opinion on the health passport

AndyB74 wrote:

When inflation hits and they are forced to raise interest rates and this tips things over the edge I think you’ll see things differently.  Probably we are in for a global depression not far from now.

"Oh, yeah?  Well, that's just like your opinion, man."

Cynic wrote:

Benefits?  They haven't changed since these things were invented back in the 60's, they enable travel and the host nation has some re-assurance that you are not going to contribute or worse, cause a medical situation in your wake.

Those who see something dark behind this are, in my opinion, seeing things that don't exist; they have been there for many countries for a long time.

I have travelled a lot in my life, but I cannot remember having to show my vaccination booklet to board a flight. Vaccinations were normally recommended for my protection (and fortunately paid by the companies I worked for).

The vaccination passport is the next step to total control. From my memory it started after 9/11 with the need to provide lots of information for the visa and biometric passports. Now there might be a new requirement. But in whose interest is is really? I mean, no problem travelling HIV positive or with hepatitis or whatever.

To be honest, I think what we had was sufficient, but many of us might have read 1984 ...

Tom around the world wrote:

Cynic wrote:

Benefits?  They haven't changed since these things were invented back in the 60's, they enable travel and the host nation has some re-assurance that you are not going to contribute or worse, cause a medical situation in your wake.

Those who see something dark behind this are, in my opinion, seeing things that don't exist; they have been there for many countries for a long time.

I have travelled a lot in my life, but I cannot remember having to show my vaccination booklet to board a flight. Vaccinations were normally recommended for my protection (and fortunately paid by the companies I worked for).

The vaccination passport is the next step to total control. From my memory it started after 9/11 with the need to provide lots of information for the visa and biometric passports. Now there might be a new requirement. But in whose interest is is really? I mean, no problem travelling HIV positive or with hepatitis or whatever.

To be honest, I think what we had was sufficient, but many of us might have read 1984 ...

..... you know that 1984 was fiction eh?

Yes, I know. Doesn't everybody?

Geert Vanden Bossche PhD, DVM is an internationally recognised expert in vaccine development. He has acted as global director of a number of vaccine programs around the world, including for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Teaching and working in virology his entire professional life, Geert is raising the alarm over the global vaccination rollout and lockdown methodology which he believes is causative in the immune escape fears being raised by journals such as The Lancet and Science in January/February 2021.

He presents scientific evidence that ‘innate’ immunity is the actual determinant in recovery from and prevention of COVID-19. This is distinct from ‘acquired’ or ‘adaptive’ immunity where pathogenic response in T Cells and B Cells confers a memory upon the immune system. Vaccines work on the ‘adaptive’ immune system, not the ‘innate’ immune system.

His research points to over-zealous infection control procedures, as well as vaccines that do not produce sterilising immunity, as the two key drivers of evolutionary pressure upon Sars-Cov-2 that may result in vaccine-resistant phenotypes of the virus. If correct, this predicts much larger waves of COVID-19 including in younger, previously resistant people. He describes our current actions to combat Sars-Cov-2 as a ‘giant experiment’ and grossly irresponsible on such a global scale.

Full video here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N9PdZn_Yd5w

Ps - this man is not a conspiracy theorist.

Tom around the world wrote:

The vaccination passport is the next step to total control.

Hahaha - that's a good one!
A certificate showing you are vaccined is as much a step towards "total control" as restrictions on carrying deadly weapons (USA) or on driving as fast as you want (Germany) are one towards "total loss of personal freedoms". No: All of these are steps towards a more civil society (and minor ones at that)!

I have a health passport of sorts.

Actually an international certificate of vaccination (yellow in color). Approved by W.H.O. and issued by TMVC, (Travellers Medical and Vaccination Centre)
Has all listings of all vaccinations I have had over the last 25 years with regards to working in various countries. Everything from yellow fever, polio, typhoid, diphtheria , encephalitis, hep B, chicken pox, cholera and others.

That's an excellent idea

beppi wrote:

Tom around the world wrote:

The vaccination passport is the next step to total control.

Hahaha - that's a good one!
A certificate showing you are vaccined is as much a step towards "total control" as restrictions on carrying deadly weapons (USA) or on driving as fast as you want (Germany) are one towards "total loss of personal freedoms". No: All of these are steps towards a more civil society (and minor ones at that)!

Looks like you love total control in the most civil society possible. To each his own.

stumpy wrote:

I have a health passport of sorts.

Actually an international certificate of vaccination (yellow in color). Approved by W.H.O. and issued by TMVC, (Travellers Medical and Vaccination Centre)
Has all listings of all vaccinations I have had over the last 25 years with regards to working in various countries. Everything from yellow fever, polio, typhoid, diphtheria , encephalitis, hep B, chicken pox, cholera and others.

I - kind of - have that as well. But it is not required to board a plane or travel. It is for me to know what vaccinations I have to to remind me what needs to be added or updated to protect me when travelling.

Ironically, the guy (Dr Geert) I posted above says that the use of mass vaccination combined with lock downs and mask wearing is going to create many variants that are more virulent than the last and is likely to be a huge disaster.  He says that we will see a big uptick in the number of cases in the countries that have been “successful” at vaccinating their populations (like the UK and Israel).  He reckons we’ll see this in weeks.  If he’s right, then the vaccine passports will be completely useless because of the number of variants, which he says you’ll never keep up with.

AndyB74 wrote:

If he’s right, then the vaccine passports will be completely useless because of the number of variants, which he says you’ll never keep up with.

Wrong.
What's useless is the repeated flaming of this forum with wild, unsubstantiated speculating such as claiming that a worldwide depression is around the corner .. and re-posting an assistant professor's bloviating about variants-gone-wild supposedly due to vaxxing!
A poster who continually promotes anti-scientific disinformation needs to be called out .. repeatedly so, if necessary.

cccmedia

Time will tell my friend....

stumpy wrote:

I have a health passport of sorts.

Actually an international certificate of vaccination (yellow in color). Approved by W.H.O. and issued by TMVC, (Travellers Medical and Vaccination Centre)
Has all listings of all vaccinations I have had over the last 25 years with regards to working in various countries. Everything from yellow fever, polio, typhoid, diphtheria , encephalitis, hep B, chicken pox, cholera and others.

Mine is very much the same, except issued by NHS England.  I get the impression on here that some people are pretending the vaccination passport doesn't exist, or can somehow be uninvented.  Others who because they have not had to show one in certain countries, again dismiss its existence or insist it requires special process to become required - all nonsense.

The fact is that they do exist, every member country of the United Nations has signed up to them and every single member country of the United Nations can request that you protect yourself against a specific disease or infection as one of the terms of entry to their country; for those in any doubt read the links I've previously provided.  As in all such things from the United Nations, you don't have to apply/use the passport - the whole purpose was/is to facilitate safe travel, you will be required to have a vax passports to be allowed to enter the countries where they require it.

The Economist, an internationally recognised news source, writes in their newest edition:

Vaccine-related restrictions are not a new idea. Visitors to places where yellow fever is endemic have to prove vaccination with a “yellow card”. Immigrants to America must be vaccinated for 15 diseases listed by that country’s Department of Health before they can become permanent residents. So must children in all 50 states before attending public schools (though there are exemptions for the immuno-compromised and religious objections). In many places, similar rules apply to some health-care workers and to soldiers.

(see https://www.economist.com/science-and-t … -good-idea)

In my opinion, these are signs of a country well run, not of totalitarianism.

[Post under review]

I've had enough - so have unsubscribed.

Andy: That statement is a heap of BS!
For one, the same can be said about any other vaccine and in fact also about antibiotics (where resistant pathogens are an actual worry). No serious scientist recommends to stop using them because of this!
Secondly, mutations towards more infectious but less deadly forms of a disease are a natural development - as they give the virus an evolutionary advantage (after all, a dead patient stops transmitting it!).
Most likely, COVID will morph into just another form of the common flu and monitoring its mutations will become part of the yearly re-calibration of the flu vaccine.
So far, there is no indication that COVID mutates as much or as fast as some of the the other flu-causing viruses. Did you know that a few of them are also (related) Corona viruses? The difference to COVID is that a disease meeting a new species with no immunity can cause far greater infection rates than a (slowly) mutating known one, and therefore greater social upheaval. Vaccinating will bring us to a similar equilibrium faster!

Furthermore, this guy seems to think that there is a difference between immunity gained through a vaccine and gained through exposure to the actual virus. In reality, there is no difference from the standpoint of the immune system - only a lower risk to die or suffer other side effects. He is not a scientist or medical expert - he is a quack!

I really hope you're right.  But he is making quite a noise about it.

In science, there is no reason to make „quite a noise about it.“ Those who do usually have other (and often sinister) aims.

I do not think a vaccination passport is not the right thing or that necessary to have.  A person that travels and chooses not to get vaccinated would be entirely his choice.  so if he gets infected and gets seriously ill, it  would have been his choice and he should be ready to accept the consequences .  Some people would rather die from an illness than having the thought that if vaccinated something can happen to them in future or even sooner.  Many people can easily fall into depressions when doing something against their own will.  I believe this is a personal choice and no one should interfere on a persons life.  After all the persons that are afraid of catching the virus are most probably the ones which are waiting anxiously to get vaccinated.  Therefore once vaccinated they should not be worried about those who are not.  Why should there be a passport that shows if one is vaccinated or not.  I think its no bodies business.  Why put people under pressure when its not going to make any difference for the people that are terrified of this virus, because they are cover anyway with them already having been vaccinated.

convel wrote:

I do not think a vaccination passport is not the right thing....  A person that travels and chooses not to get vaccinated would be entirely his choice.  so if he gets infected and gets seriously ill, it  would have been his choice and he should be ready to accept the consequences.... I believe this is a personal choice and no one should interfere on a persons life.... once vaccinated they should not be worried about those who are not.  Why should there be a passport that shows if one is vaccinated or not.  I think its no bodies business.  Why put people under pressure when its not going to make any difference...

Well, it is more complicated than the above post states.

Beyond it being an individual's fault for personally getting sick after refusing the vaccines, the infected one can infect others.

Nobody's business?  That's simplistic given that a contagious disease is the problem and some individuals are eschewing any responsibility for enabling the spread of it.

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The double negative, possibly unintended, in Convel's opening sentence further detracts from any points Convel was attempting to make.

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N.B.  I am not advocating for compulsory vaccinations or compulsory health passports.

cccmedia

"Proof of vaccination will be the new world standard for travel."

That's not yours truly saying it.  That is a direct quote from Juan Zapata, head of Ecuador's Emergency Operating Committee.  As of March 22, Ecuador will no longer require a negative covid-19/PCR test to enter the country so long as the traveler has proof of vaccination against covid.

Ecuador is attempting to promote travel into the country for economic reasons .. and for the same reasons, and the fact that millions of people are now being vaccinated daily against covid .. expect a similar rule to be adopted in other countries.

So bring your stamped health passport .. or another form of vaccination proof .. and expect you can visit Ecuador or other countries that follow its example.

Information source...  www.cuencahighlife.com

What we had in the past was a medical attachment (booklet) that was attached to our existing passport as to what vaccination that would cover different countries for different issues. The covid 19 is a Global
virus and some countries don't want you to bring the virus into their countries and kill their people and also protect you. People should think of other people and not just themselves. It's called looking at the the big picture.

Actually, China is concerned with the very lethal B strain of COVID-19. It is also concerned with the COVID-20, and COVID-21. All of which hit China in 2020. All of which are dangerously lethal.

Western inoculations are based upon the COVID-19A strain, with zero consideration to the other viral agents.

To fully appreciate China's stance in this matter is to recognize that China Does Not Play. They are a serious, serious nation. They are concerned about the well-being of their people. Not the wishes, desires, and "Rights" of visitors.

I have never heard of COVID-20 or -21. The official name of variants is something like "B.XX.YY.ZZ" (with XX, YY and ZZ being numbers) and in the media they are usually called the "British", "South African" or "Brazilian variant".
However, while some of the currently known variants are more infectious, they are NOT known to be more lethal. This is also a natural evolutionary development, as a dead patient stops transmitting and that is not in the virus's interest.

But regarding China I agree and would like to extend the last sentence to "Not the wishes, desires, and "Rights" of their own people either."

It's easier to call this by the simplistic names. Actually, their real names are rather difficult to remember...

The Beijing Tick Virus. Death by diarrhea.
https://news.abplive.com/health/tick-in … ar-1304904

Swine-human virus. Death by vomiting.
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/ … -humans-us

These two viruses are the reason why anal swabs are required in China.

These are separate issues and have nothing to do with COVID.

A podcast -- in audio and written-transcript form -- has just been posted at The Atlantic website .. with an in-depth discussion among experts about the future of health passports.

You can hear, among other things, why it's predicted that the current U.S. administration will reverse itself later this year and offer government health passports.

www.theatlantic.com
"No shirt. No shoes. No shots. No service."