Applying to be Dutch in the UK

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

I'm reasonably certain that you need to be resident in the Netherlands at the time of application in order to apply for Dutch citizenship by naturalisation; this link takes you to the IND website where it lists the requirements.  Residence means living there and registered with the Gemeente.

You should note that in general, the Dutch Government is not a fan of people who collect nationalities and publicly admit to discouraging it.  The only people who are safe from losing their "other" nationality are those like my kids who were born to a Dutch parent and the other parent is not Dutch, so in our case, our kids are dual national (UK/NL and have both passports); our experience is that it gives you no advantage at all and the one time I got in the US citizen queue at Dulles, I got arrested for impersonating an active-duty soldier.

My wife and I can't be Dutch dual nationals (well, actually I am a dual national US/UK), but that just makes it worse, so I'm never going to apply for Dutch nationality - the only advantage it gives you over residency is you get to vote in national elections, which if you follow Dutch politics, will know it's all nonsense and not worth getting excited about.

My advice is before you waste a whole load of time and money, speak to the IND; their contact details are on their website and this link will take you straight there.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

Hi Cynic,

Thanks for the explanation.

I do believe you don't have to be a resident in the Netherlands to apply for Dutch citizenship. But you cannot apply to be Dutch if you are living in the country of your passport nationality.

But the points you bring out are helpful.

The advantages of being Dutch are quite a few - over being just British, because even if we don't live in the EU as such, carrying on business trips to the EU, etc. are restricted to a certain extent to British passport holders, since you would need to get a business visa now (based on the consequences of Brexit), etc.

However, that's sorted for us because my wife is already Dutch, thank goodness. I would still not be able to go for any kind of new business solicitation on my own under a British passport, although I would be allowed to visit for conferences, etc. But there are a lot of restrictions for business now - carnets for equipment, etc. So, yes, having a Dutch passport would be very helpful for EU business.

Do you think I can just call the IND and speak to them over the phone directly? I have written to them, but it's been several days since (over a week) and I haven't heard back.

There are immigration lawyers who are offering to provide consultation for 200 Euros, but I'm not really sure if it's worth doing that yet.

Thank you once again for taking the time to respond so comprehensively.

TheShankster wrote:

Hi Cynic,

Thanks for the explanation.

I do believe you don't have to be a resident in the Netherlands to apply for Dutch citizenship. But you cannot apply to be Dutch if you are living in the country of your passport nationality.

But the points you bring out are helpful.

The advantages of being Dutch are quite a few - over being just British, because even if we don't live in the EU as such, carrying on business trips to the EU, etc. are restricted to a certain extent to British passport holders, since you would need to get a business visa now (based on the consequences of Brexit), etc.

However, that's sorted for us because my wife is already Dutch, thank goodness. I would still not be able to go for any kind of new business solicitation on my own under a British passport, although I would be allowed to visit for conferences, etc. But there are a lot of restrictions for business now - carnets for equipment, etc. So, yes, having a Dutch passport would be very helpful for EU business.

Do you think I can just call the IND and speak to them over the phone directly? I have written to them, but it's been several days since (over a week) and I haven't heard back.

There are immigration lawyers who are offering to provide consultation for 200 Euros, but I'm not really sure if it's worth doing that yet.

Thank you once again for taking the time to respond so comprehensively.

Hi again.

I posted a link to what the nationality requirements are; perhaps you missed them, so I shall C&P the relevant section that demonstrates why you cannot apply from the UK:

IND wrote:

Conditions for naturalisation
The following conditions apply to naturalisation:

You have lived in the Kingdom of the Netherlands for at least 5 consecutive years with a valid residence permit. You have always extended your residence permit on time. In some cases you can apply for naturalisation earlier. Find out about exceptions to the 5-year term.

At the time of your application for naturalisation, you have one of the following residence permits:

an asylum residence permit or regular permanent residence permit;
a residence permit as a long-term EU resident;
a temporary residence permit with a non-temporary purpose of stay. Find out which purposes of stay are non-temporary for becoming a Dutch national;
a resident permit as a family member of an EU national, if you yourself do not have the nationality of a country in the EU or EEA or Switzerland;
you have residence pursuant to EU law because you have the nationality of an EU or EEA country or Switzerland. You do not need to have a residence permit; or
a residence document permanent residence Withdrawal Agreement (Terugtrekkingsakkoord) for UK nationals and their family members.

There are many ways to contact the IND.  You've already written to them, they also have a Twitter feed where you can ask general questions, you can also phone them, this link will take you to their contact page.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

TheShankster wrote:

Hi Cynic,

Thanks for the explanation.

I do believe you don't have to be a resident in the Netherlands to apply for Dutch citizenship. But you cannot apply to be Dutch if you are living in the country of your passport nationality.

But the points you bring out are helpful.

The advantages of being Dutch are quite a few - over being just British, because even if we don't live in the EU as such, carrying on business trips to the EU, etc. are restricted to a certain extent to British passport holders, since you would need to get a business visa now (based on the consequences of Brexit), etc.

However, that's sorted for us because my wife is already Dutch, thank goodness. I would still not be able to go for any kind of new business solicitation on my own under a British passport, although I would be allowed to visit for conferences, etc. But there are a lot of restrictions for business now - carnets for equipment, etc. So, yes, having a Dutch passport would be very helpful for EU business.

Do you think I can just call the IND and speak to them over the phone directly? I have written to them, but it's been several days since (over a week) and I haven't heard back.

There are immigration lawyers who are offering to provide consultation for 200 Euros, but I'm not really sure if it's worth doing that yet.

Thank you once again for taking the time to respond so comprehensively.

Hi,

I have been reading your story, but I have to tell you there is no way for you to get the Dutch nationality. Even if you guys would live in the Netherlands it would at least take 5 years for you to become a Dutch citizen. Just being married to a Dutch person, doesn't mean that someone automaticly gets the Dutch nationality.

Just become a British national as you are living in the UK, your chances are way bigger over there.

Actually, you can apply for citizenship if you're married to a Dutch national living abroad for (at least) the 5 consecutive years before you move to the NL. Thus, you don't have to be in the NL as long as you're together (and can prove it), the caveat is that you can't apply until you and your spouse repatriate and you complete inburgering (if required due to your country of origin).

How do I know this? The IND kindly informed me when I inquired about my circumstance. Although my husband (Dutch) and I have been married since 2009, I've been in the US the last several years going to school while he returned to the NL so, because of that time apart, we have to live together another 5 years before I can apply if I was immigrating for family reunification.

CarinCan wrote:

Actually, you can apply for citizenship if you're married to a Dutch national living abroad for (at least) the 5 consecutive years before you move to the NL. Thus, you don't have to be in the NL as long as you're together (and can prove it), the caveat is that you can't apply until you and your spouse repatriate and you complete inburgering (if required due to your country of origin).

How do I know this? The IND kindly informed me when I inquired about my circumstance. Although my husband (Dutch) and I have been married since 2009, I've been in the US the last several years going to school while he returned to the NL so, because of that time apart, we have to live together another 5 years before I can apply if I was immigrating for family reunification.

I have nothing further to add; the link I previously provided lists the requirements and the derogations.  The applicant has to be resident in the Netherlands on the date he/she/it applies for nationality.  It can be the date you describe, although the chance of anybody getting an appointment to register at the Gemeente in that time is virtually nil.

Here is a link that explains what I mentioned earlier:

https://ind.nl/en/dutch-citizenship/Pag … broad.aspx

"Who should read this information

The Kingdom of the Netherlands includes the Netherlands and the Netherlands Caribbean. If you have a residence permit to live in the Netherlands Caribbean: in Aruba, Curaçao, St Maarten, Bonaire, Sint Eustatius or Saba, or if you live in another country outside the Kingdom of the Netherlands, and you wish to apply for Dutch nationality, this information will be useful to you. "

"Applying outside the Netherlands or in the Netherlands Caribbean

The authority to which you should submit your naturalisation application or option application depends on where you live.

   Do you live abroad? You need to submit your application to the Dutch embassy or consulate."

On the same page:

"Naturalisation application outside the Netherlands

Do you want to apply for Dutch nationality outside the Netherlands via naturalisation? You can only apply for naturalisation if you have had Dutch nationality before and want to regain it, or if you are married to, or the registered partner of, someone with Dutch nationality.

Hope this explains where I am coming from.

Actually, believe it or not, the time requirement for naturalisation if you are married to a Dutch citizen is just that you need to be together officially for at least 3 years prior to the application - not 5 years.

Here is a link to that rule:

Here is the excerpt to the portion I'm reading from:

Naturalisation: exceptions to the 5-year term

​To apply for naturalisation you have to have lived in the Kingdom of the Netherlands with a valid residence permit for a minimum of 5 years continuously. But in some cases you can apply earlier. You will read here when this is possible.
No term for main residence and residence permit

In these situations you do not have to live in the Kingdom of the Netherlands to apply for naturalisation:

    You are married to or are the registered partner of a Dutch citizen. And you are already living together for a minimum of 3 years. You will continue living together during the whole naturalisation procedure.
    Do you live in the Kingdom of the Netherlands? Then you do not have to be married or registered partners for the whole 3 years. You should, however, have lived together in the Kingdom of the Netherlands for a minimum of 3 years.
    Do you live outside the Kingdom of the Netherlands? Then you should have been living together as married or registered partners for a minimum of 3 years.

As you will notice, it does not insist on either the 5 year term, nor the residence in the Netherlands. It's a minimum of 3 years, either way.

Yes, but you do not need the Dutch nationality. So why should they give you the Dutch nationality?
I find it odd that you want to have three nationalities, that is not how it should work. They will deny you the Dutch nationality, because of this.

I don't think I talked about having 3 nationalities anywhere.

I only talked about being a dual national. Please read it again.

If you are talking about my Indian nationality, then maybe that's my fault for not making it clear.

I would need to surrender my Indian passport as soon as I acquire another nationality. That's how the law works in India. However, on the basis of that, I would get a new identity card called an 'OCI' - or 'Overseas Citizen of India' - which is more like a indefinite permit by virtue of my past Indian nationality, but that is NOT a passport. My passport nationality would be whichever passport I hold at the time.

So the 3 nationality point doesn't really apply, because if I am eligible to become Dutch (or British) first, then that would be the only passport I would hold at the time.

All throughout my posts, I have only talked about the possible 2 nationalities: Dutch and UK (which is the same that my wife currently has).

As I already said, I was trying to find out whether or not I am eligible for Dutch citizenship under the circumstances mentioned above. You were 100% sure that I needed 5 years and that I needed to be a resident. As you can see, it's not necessarily so.

If not, that's fine. After all, it's the decision of the IND NL - not anyone else's, to decide. And I perfectly respect that.

I do want to find out about what my options are before I go ahead and apply for British citizenship, because I will not be eligible for Dutch citizenship as a UK national resident in the UK. So it's more an order of doing things.

I just wanted to rule it out 100% before just assuming, based on hearsay, since as we have already seen from this thread, that can be often incorrect.

I am also in touch with the IND and am thinking of giving them a call within the next few days if I don't hear back.

I will come back and post the results of the advice they give me. As I mentioned, if they decline, that's fine. I will proceed with option 2 (which is to go ahead and apply with my UK application).

And if they affirm that I am indeed eligible and let me go ahead, we will all be wiser in the end. Agreed?

@TheShankster

I find your posts to be quite rude, you came and asked questions on the forum. You were given honest answers. Now if you chose not to take either Ramses K. or Cynic advice I am not sure anyone can help you more. Just to add I have known both of them a while, rarely wrong but when there are they freely admit it.

My apologies if it came across as rude.

That was not the intention. I am not here to argue with anyone.

I was sincerely asking for assistance from people if they have information based on what is generally known.

It is possible that the IND.NL have recently updated their information and their policies and that the links I shared is new information.

To be honest, I think Cynic was very helpful and he definitely tried to explain things to the best of his ability.

I just posted the other links which I found provided slightly different information - which I have shared (the links themselves were removed from my post, but I do not know why, because they were from ind.nl). As you can see, the information is definitely different from what was shared in this thread.

However, I do feel that the tone in the response from Ramses was uncalled for. Now, it's possible that I misread that completely and if so, my humble apologies, Ramses. Maybe you simply meant it in a different way and then I was the one at fault.

Like I said, I'm looking for the right order of things and if something doesn't apply, I would be happy to strike it off the list.

Just to clarify, I have given my opinion - that you can't apply for citizenship without being a resident, the rest of it added nothing.  I have posted the IND links and a C&P of the IND page where it states this; I have nothing further to add to this part of it.

I genuinely hope you do get what you want, but I think you will be disappointed without being a resident; simply because a part of your passport (page 1) is your BSN number, you only get that from Registration.

We share, give advice that's all with our knowledge. Call the embassy.....?

I agree, Cynic.

You might be right too. I just want to make sure I don't look back and think "If I only had!" - And if it doesn't work out, well - at least I gave it a decent shot. At least it eliminates all the other options and narrows down the choices.

That's important.

Cynic wrote:

Just to clarify, I have given my opinion - that you can't apply for citizenship without being a resident, the rest of it added nothing.  I have posted the IND links and a C&P of the IND page where it states this; I have nothing further to add to this part of it.

I genuinely hope you do get what you want, but I think you will be disappointed without being a resident; simply because a part of your passport (page 1) is your BSN number, you only get that from Registration.

I agree it's time to do that. Let's wait and see.

SimCityAT wrote:

We share, give advice that's all with our knowledge. Call the embassy.....?

I have a question about this:

My wife has a Dutch passport, as I mentioned, but she has not had to register (not resident in the Netherlands) and there is no BSN number on her passport, as far as I can tell - other than the only number which is evidently the passport number itself.

I have no idea why that is.

Maybe non-residents are given a different type or classification? I don't know enough to conclude anything.

Cynic wrote:

Just to clarify, I have given my opinion - that you can't apply for citizenship without being a resident, the rest of it added nothing.  I have posted the IND links and a C&P of the IND page where it states this; I have nothing further to add to this part of it.

I genuinely hope you do get what you want, but I think you will be disappointed without being a resident; simply because a part of your passport (page 1) is your BSN number, you only get that from Registration.

This may help:

and this:



A link to Dutch Government website on the subject is here.

Dutch citizens get their BSN at birth; the rest of us get their BSN when they first register at the Gemeente when we first moved to the Netherlands.

Thanks for sharing that.

Okay, so I looked it up.

That number is not there on my wife's Dutch passport, although there are numbers at the bottom, but it's missing in the middle section of the passport. So perhaps that's a different type of passport where that number isn't required as such? Or maybe that's not necessarily mandatory? I have no idea. They evidently had no problem issuing the passport without that.

I assume that's like the National Insurance number in the UK. Almost everyone has it, but not everyone does (if they've never lived in the country or worked in the UK and been non-resident all their lives).

It looks more like this (Wikipedia Dutch passport sample photo page).

Update: I spoke to the IND this morning. They have no problem with my getting Dutch nationality through naturalisation without being resident and I'm fully eligible.

Cynic wrote:

This may help:https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/bin … erkant.jpg

and this:

https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/bin … orkant.jpg

A link to Dutch Government website on the subject is here.

Dutch citizens get their BSN at birth; the rest of us get their BSN when they first register at the Gemeente when we first moved to the Netherlands.

Cynic wrote:

This may help:https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/bin … erkant.jpg

and this:

https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/bin … orkant.jpg

A link to Dutch Government website on the subject is here.

Dutch citizens get their BSN at birth; the rest of us get their BSN when they first register at the Gemeente when we first moved to the Netherlands.

Yup I got mine when I was born.

The last thing I say about this whole question is that it would amaze me if the topic starter would get the Dutch nationality. The rules about it are very strict and they are not lenient at all.

Ramses K. wrote:

The last thing I say about this whole question is that it would amaze me if the topic starter would get the Dutch nationality. The rules about it are very strict and they are not lenient at all.

Well, what do you know? 

SimCityAT wrote:

Ramses K. wrote:

The last thing I say about this whole question is that it would amaze me if the topic starter would get the Dutch nationality. The rules about it are very strict and they are not lenient at all.

Well, what do you know? 

LOL - obviously not a lot; it makes the published advice a nonsense.  I think the best option from now on is to revert everybody the IND.  It's nothing else but a convenience passport.

TheShankster wrote:

Thanks for sharing that.

Okay, so I looked it up.

That number is not there on my wife's Dutch passport, although there are numbers at the bottom, but it's missing in the middle section of the passport. So perhaps that's a different type of passport where that number isn't required as such? Or maybe that's not necessarily mandatory? I have no idea. They evidently had no problem issuing the passport without that.

I assume that's like the National Insurance number in the UK. Almost everyone has it, but not everyone does (if they've never lived in the country or worked in the UK and been non-resident all their lives).

It looks more like this (Wikipedia Dutch passport sample photo page).

Update: I spoke to the IND this morning. They have no problem with my getting Dutch nationality through naturalisation without being resident and I'm fully eligible.

Cynic wrote:

This may help:https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/bin … erkant.jpg

and this:

https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/bin … orkant.jpg

A link to Dutch Government website on the subject is here.

Dutch citizens get their BSN at birth; the rest of us get their BSN when they first register at the Gemeente when we first moved to the Netherlands.

Congratulations; I'd be grateful if you'd come back with the process you follow from start to finish, then we can refer the rest of the people asking this question.

Hi Cynic,

Thanks. I would be very happy to do that. I understand that this is a journey we're all on together.

I really appreciate your great patience with this.

I did think they might agree, based on what I had read on the IND.NL website. But needless to say, it's important to confirm facts from the horse's mouth.

Here's my take on this - again as an uninformed newcomer:

The fact is that the whole complicated nonsense of Brexit has made things very difficult for a lot of EU countries, so that where they didn't have a dual nationality policy, they had to adjust things a lot.

The fact is that there are close to 300k Dutch nationals (from what I heard) in the UK. With the rather dodgy politics the UK has been playing, the Dutch had to do something and make exceptions to the many rules they had.

Actually, even the Danish government had to make exceptions due to Brexit, because they didn't allow dual nationality either, but now they do.

So I don't think that it's the case that people here don't know and they have each tried to help to the best of their ability (so please don't feel too bad); I think it's more a case of where folks didn't necessarily probably didn't need to know or need to even research, since you don't need it. Who would have the time to keep up with this sort of thing anyways?

With my situation, it was pretty obvious we needed to get some advice.

Cynic, that was a great suggestion to just call them directly, which I managed to do with a bit of struggle. That alone saved us 200 Euros in solicitor fees.

But once through, it was very quick and straightforward.

I asked about 2 things:

1. Whether I can be a Dutch national without being resident in the Netherlands (by virtue of being married to a Dutch national).

ANSWER: YES, NO PROBLEM AT ALL. I would still need to go through the whole naturalisation process (inburgeringexamens, etc.)

2. Can I be Dutch and apply for UK citizenship without losing my Dutch citizenship due to the fact that my wife is also British and we're living in the UK?

ANSWER: I'm meant to wait for a call back within the next 48 hours from the IND.NL. From the research I have done, I had found this link earlier. I wasn't able to post links earlier, but it appears I can now.

It says:

"Can I apply for British nationality without losing my Dutch nationality?

You automatically lose your Dutch nationality if you voluntarily acquire British nationality as an adult. There are three exceptions:

   -  you were born in the United Kingdom and it was your principal country of residence when you acquired British nationality;
   -  the United Kingdom was your principal country of residence for an uninterrupted period of at least 5 years before you reached the age of 18;
   -  you are acquiring your spouse's or registered partner's British nationality."

Of course, I am awaiting the outcome of my call with the IND now, since that would be specific to our case.

Again, like I said, we are more aware now - because as I said, things have definitely changed and laws have been updated. One of them was done as recently as just a few months back, so nobody can expect to keep up with everything unless you're an immigration solicitor.

So, hang on - more information coming soon

Cynic wrote:

TheShankster wrote:

Thanks for sharing that.

Okay, so I looked it up.

That number is not there on my wife's Dutch passport, although there are numbers at the bottom, but it's missing in the middle section of the passport. So perhaps that's a different type of passport where that number isn't required as such? Or maybe that's not necessarily mandatory? I have no idea. They evidently had no problem issuing the passport without that.

I assume that's like the National Insurance number in the UK. Almost everyone has it, but not everyone does (if they've never lived in the country or worked in the UK and been non-resident all their lives).

It looks more like this (Wikipedia Dutch passport sample photo page).

Update: I spoke to the IND this morning. They have no problem with my getting Dutch nationality through naturalisation without being resident and I'm fully eligible.

Cynic wrote:

This may help:https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/bin … erkant.jpg

and this:

https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/bin … orkant.jpg

A link to Dutch Government website on the subject is here.

Dutch citizens get their BSN at birth; the rest of us get their BSN when they first register at the Gemeente when we first moved to the Netherlands.

Congratulations; I'd be grateful if you'd come back with the process you follow from start to finish, then we can refer the rest of the people asking this question.

Actually, believe it or not, there is information published on the IND site about the exceptions and I have shared a few excerpts above too, which made me feel more confident that it was possible in the right circumstances.

However, being a layman and not a legal expert myself, I needed to be doubly sure that my interpretation was correct, which is why your suggestion of calling the IND was the best advice.

Cynic wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

Ramses K. wrote:

The last thing I say about this whole question is that it would amaze me if the topic starter would get the Dutch nationality. The rules about it are very strict and they are not lenient at all.

Well, what do you know? 

LOL - obviously not a lot; it makes the published advice a nonsense.  I think the best option from now on is to revert everybody the IND.  It's nothing else but a convenience passport.

Cynic wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

Ramses K. wrote:

The last thing I say about this whole question is that it would amaze me if the topic starter would get the Dutch nationality. The rules about it are very strict and they are not lenient at all.

Well, what do you know? 

LOL - obviously not a lot; it makes the published advice a nonsense.  I think the best option from now on is to revert everybody the IND.  It's nothing else but a convenience passport.

He didn't get the Dutch nationality yet, the procedure haven't started and they can still turn it down.

LOL - some people always have to be right, no matter what. Whatever, man. If it makes you happy to have my application refused ...

And BTW, you're right - they can refuse it if I don't have all the documents in order and if I don't pass the inburgeringexamens (language and civic integration tests). But it would not be due to ineligibility.

For the record, this thread was never about whether I would get my Dutch nationality, but whether I was eligible to get Dutch nationality without being resident and whether I am eligible to have British nationality without losing my Dutch nationality - by virtue of being married to a Dutch national.

The answer is yes for both instances - confirmed by the IND over the phone.

Ramses K. wrote:

He didn't get the Dutch nationality yet, the procedure haven't started and they can still turn it down.

UPDATE:

When I spoke to the IND.NL over the phone yesterday, they promised a callback within 24-48 hours.

I was very impressed that I got a callback this morning.

The lady was very patient over the phone and answered all the questions very clearly.

My question was:

If I became Dutch first, then became British (in that order), since my wife has both nationalities and since I would be getting the nationality of my wife (UK), then would I lose my Dutch nationality?

ANSWER: It would be totally fine and I would not lose my Dutch nationality in that case, since the Dutch immigration law provides an exception in the case of your spouse being the national of a certain country where you are resident. I had found this link earlier from the Dutch govt. site, and this is exactly what I was told.

So, in effect, I would be eligible to be a dual national (both Dutch and British) provided I do it in that order.

As explained earlier, I would not be eligible to apply for Dutch citizenship if I were a UK citizen living in the UK.

I also asked about the 10-year rule regarding Dutch nationality where you can lose your status if you don't live in the Netherlands or the EU. I was informed that as long as I ensure my Dutch passport stays valid, that would not be a problem. You just can't afford to let it expire.

I understand that this is only the beginning of the journey and that there is many a slip between cup and lip. I only needed to confirm whether this route was an option available to me.

It turns out it is. Glad to have discovered it.

Special thanks to Cynic for the invaluable suggestion of giving them a call. I was thoroughly impressed with how responsive they were and how fast it all went. I saved 200 Euros in fees by doing that.  Thanks a ton.

PS: Cynic, if it helps, I can write up the whole experience and all the points in one consolidated post for you to refer folks to - with the disclaimer that each case has to be researched on its own merits, but at least this should help for general guidelines. That way nobody would need to wade through all the unnecessary bits. What do you think?

TheShankster wrote:

Hi Cynic,

Thanks. I would be very happy to do that. I understand that this is a journey we're all on together.

I really appreciate your great patience with this.

I did think they might agree, based on what I had read on the IND.NL website. But needless to say, it's important to confirm facts from the horse's mouth.

Here's my take on this - again as an uninformed newcomer:

The fact is that the whole complicated nonsense of Brexit has made things very difficult for a lot of EU countries, so that where they didn't have a dual nationality policy, they had to adjust things a lot.

The fact is that there are close to 300k Dutch nationals (from what I heard) in the UK. With the rather dodgy politics the UK has been playing, the Dutch had to do something and make exceptions to the many rules they had.

Actually, even the Danish government had to make exceptions due to Brexit, because they didn't allow dual nationality either, but now they do.

So I don't think that it's the case that people here don't know and they have each tried to help to the best of their ability (so please don't feel too bad); I think it's more a case of where folks didn't necessarily probably didn't need to know or need to even research, since you don't need it. Who would have the time to keep up with this sort of thing anyways?

With my situation, it was pretty obvious we needed to get some advice.

Cynic, that was a great suggestion to just call them directly, which I managed to do with a bit of struggle. That alone saved us 200 Euros in solicitor fees.

But once through, it was very quick and straightforward.

I asked about 2 things:

1. Whether I can be a Dutch national without being resident in the Netherlands (by virtue of being married to a Dutch national).

ANSWER: YES, NO PROBLEM AT ALL. I would still need to go through the whole naturalisation process (inburgeringexamens, etc.)

2. Can I be Dutch and apply for UK citizenship without losing my Dutch citizenship due to the fact that my wife is also British and we're living in the UK?

ANSWER: I'm meant to wait for a call back within the next 48 hours from the IND.NL. From the research I have done, I had found this link earlier. I wasn't able to post links earlier, but it appears I can now.

It says:

"Can I apply for British nationality without losing my Dutch nationality?

You automatically lose your Dutch nationality if you voluntarily acquire British nationality as an adult. There are three exceptions:

   -  you were born in the United Kingdom and it was your principal country of residence when you acquired British nationality;
   -  the United Kingdom was your principal country of residence for an uninterrupted period of at least 5 years before you reached the age of 18;
   -  you are acquiring your spouse's or registered partner's British nationality."

Of course, I am awaiting the outcome of my call with the IND now, since that would be specific to our case.

Again, like I said, we are more aware now - because as I said, things have definitely changed and laws have been updated. One of them was done as recently as just a few months back, so nobody can expect to keep up with everything unless you're an immigration solicitor.

So, hang on - more information coming soon

Cynic wrote:

TheShankster wrote:

Thanks for sharing that.

Okay, so I looked it up.

That number is not there on my wife's Dutch passport, although there are numbers at the bottom, but it's missing in the middle section of the passport. So perhaps that's a different type of passport where that number isn't required as such? Or maybe that's not necessarily mandatory? I have no idea. They evidently had no problem issuing the passport without that.

I assume that's like the National Insurance number in the UK. Almost everyone has it, but not everyone does (if they've never lived in the country or worked in the UK and been non-resident all their lives).

It looks more like this (Wikipedia Dutch passport sample photo page).

Update: I spoke to the IND this morning. They have no problem with my getting Dutch nationality through naturalisation without being resident and I'm fully eligible.

Congratulations; I'd be grateful if you'd come back with the process you follow from start to finish, then we can refer the rest of the people asking this question.

Hi folks,

Just dropping by with an update.

Around the time of the last post, I started studying for my Dutch exams for the inburgering, having had no prior experience or knowledge of the language.

I have had at least 2 visits to the Dutch embassy in London to sit for my exams and I also had discussions with the officials there. They were all very reassuring regarding my situation and were actually very helpful as to the way forward. According to them, as long as my paperwork is in order, there should be no problems for the naturalisation.

I finished the last of my 5 exams 2 weeks back (listening, speaking, writing and reading Dutch and the KNM - Knowledge of Dutch society). I didn't have to do the ONA, because DUO informed me that since I'm based in the UK and not actually moving to the Netherlands, that's not required.

I just got the results this morning and I have passed all my exams.

I'm getting together the paperwork now and will be applying to the embassy in London next month.

Then I would need to wait for a few months typically for the results of my application and then I would need to attend the ceremony (either via Zoom or in person - depending on whether Covid restrictions are still in place).

I will keep you updated on this.

@TheShankster Hi! Good day! I was just reading the forum and would like to know the full process you have been through and the result as well as I am on the same boat just living on a different country. Hoping for your response.

Hello Joyce101,

Welcome to expat.com!

Unfortunately, @TheShankster is no longer active and might not see your message.

You can create a new discussion on the Netherlands forum where you can ask about all your queries.

Cheers,

Yoginee

Expat.com team

@TheShankster Hi! Good day! I was just reading the forum and would like to know the full process you have been through and the result as well as I am on the same boat just living on a different country. Hoping for your response.
-@Joyce101

Unfortunately the process can be a bit different depending on the nationality.

What exactly do you want to know?

@Primadonna Thank you for the reply! I wanted to check if I can apply to be Dutch from UAE. I am a Filipino and is married and been living with my husband for more than 5 years now. I want to know the process and where do I start with studying for the exam? Thank you in advance.

@Joyce101

Hi Joyce,

Sorry, I don't seem to get notifications from the forum.

I'll post everything in detail in just a bit.

Thanks!

Cynic wrote:SimCityAT wrote:Ramses K. wrote:The last thing I say about this whole question is that it would amaze me if the topic starter would get the Dutch nationality. The rules about it are very strict and they are not lenient at all.

Well, what do you know?

LOL - obviously not a lot; it makes the published advice a nonsense. I think the best option from now on is to revert everybody the IND. It's nothing else but a convenience passport.

He didn't get the Dutch nationality yet, the procedure haven't started and they can still turn it down.
-@Ramses K.

Just an update for everyone (as I've been quiet for a while, as I was waiting for the outcome of my application):

After I applied for my Dutch nationality in April 2022, I received a message from the Dutch Embassy in London in Aug 2022 saying that I would be invited for the next naturalisation ceremony, whenever the date was made available.

I just received a message from the Dutch Embassy in London yesterday (Oct 21st) that my Dutch naturalisation application has been approved and that I am invited to come to the ceremony in Nov 2022.

It's been a great journey so far and very valuable learning experience. The IND were extremely helpful and encouraging and even called me twice from The Hague to clarify any doubts I had to help me with specific detailed information I needed in my particular situation.

Overall, I was very impressed with the IND - how helpful and straightforward they were (unlike some of the other countries I have dealt with).

@Cynic: as mentioned earlier, I would be happy to post in detail the whole process I followed step by step. Special thanks to you for recommending getting in touch with the IND directly about my situation.

@Joyce101

If you scroll up in this thread, you can see some of the links I have posted.

Here is what I have learned (although you might need to check everything and confirm in case things have changed since I went through the process):

1. If you are married to a Dutch citizen, as long as you are not living in the country of your passport, you are eligible to apply for Dutch citizenship. Since you are living in the UAE and are a Filipino, you should be able to do that.
2. You need to pass the Inburgeringsexam - but you would only need to do the following tests:

• Reading
• Writing
• Listening
• Speaking
• KMS exam (knowledge of Dutch society)
• Orientation on the Dutch Labour Market (ONA) - No need for this if you are applying from abroad and you are not moving to the Netherlands.

Studying Dutch:

There are quite a few courses online and there are a lot of exercises.

I focused on the Duolingo app and also signed up to www.inburgeringonline.nl

This is a paid course, but Bart (who is the founder of the course) was very helpful over email, etc.

There were a lot of other free resources on the internet that I found and I'll need to go through my lists to get things together.

Hope this helps.

@TheShankster

Thank you for all the useful information you post.

I have been following your threads and I noticed that you had previously indicated that your wife acquired dutch nationality through the option procedure.

I am Kenyan by birth, I automatically lost my Dutch nationality due to the fact i had dual citizenship and I have lived outside the Netherlands for over 10 years without applying for a dutch passport ( also due to the fact i didnt know that i had the nationality in the first place). It took a while to get confirmation from IND that indeed i once had dutch nationality but lost it in 2015.I was guided by the IND earlier this year to do a proportionality test via the option procedure. I submitted my documents and I am waiting for the results. It's been six weeks since submitting my documents and t I am anxiously waiting for the results.

Kindly could you share the experience your wife had with applying for her option procedure.  It will be very helpful especially in regards to  response timelines.

@manneke87

Thanks.

The option procedure was pretty straightforward and took about 8-9 weeks in all.

That was it. If you've been in touch with the IND, then you should be on the way already.

Just give it a bit more time. It should come soon enough.