Vietnam Blacklist Story (FYI)--what to do and not to do.

ekidhardt wrote:

Hey all--I thought I might share my story so that anyone else might avoid the problems I ran into.

In April of 2018, after about a year in VN, I went on a normal visa run, but I had stupidly misread my visa expiration date, It read 5/4/2018, and as an American, I read that as "May 4th 2018", but it was really "April 5th 2018". That was my mistake, I've been traveling for years--it's the first visa related mistake I've ever made.

I had overstayed something like 27 days, inadvertently. So I immediately I went to the immigration department, they took my passport, and I had to write down on a piece of paper why I overstayed, so I wrote the truth.

I also had to write what I was doing in Vietnam, and I wrote that I am a photographer and a professional dancer (salsa), both true.

A few weeks later, I paid about 4mil VND and got my visa back. I asked if I would have any trouble entering the country again, and they said "try for a new visa". I specifically asked if I was on any black list as a result, and they just kept saying 'apply again for a visa'.

I didn't suspect anything else, and everyone I talked to, including travel agencies AND the agency that works directly with the immigration department, said there's no chance I'd get on the blacklist for that infraction. After researching, I found out that the blacklist was for people with major infractions, so I was confident that I couldn't have gotten on the list that criminals end up on.

Well, then I applied for a new visa and got denied. I thought I made a typo, so I applied again. Denied. Then I thought maybe the agency was not doing it right, so I tried another agency. Denied. Then I went directly to the immigration department with a translator to figure out what was happening--they refused to provide any information.

So the immigration department suggested I go directly to their preferred agency--and I did that. After much persuasion, the agency was able to talk to someone inside the immigration department directly who was able to look at my file. The agency was told to 'stay away' and 'don't touch this case'. (!!?), and I was able to find out why I was put on the black list and for how long.

I was put on the black list because I was suspected of being an anti-government video-blogger or that I  collecting information on Vietnam for the USA, and I was blacklisted until May 2020 (2 years). I was informed also that I could get removed for $3000.

I didn't really know what a video blogger was, and I'm not sure what information I would collect on Vietnam, so this came as quite the surprise me. Regardless, I can't argue what they "suspect" might be occurring, and I won't be extorted for the money--so maybe I'll return another year.

I was baffled as to how I got on this list, so it got me to thinking, and I think it was this: I said I was a photographer when they asked me what I was doing in VN. That was my first mistake. The second mistake was that I went to the immigration department directly--rather than through a lawyer or travel agency.

The travel agencies collect money and smooth things over with the officials--and I didn't follow the proper corrupt chain of command as I should have. My friend had overstayed for 4 months, paid a bunch of $ and had no issue returning--but he went through an agency who made up some story. The importance of an agency, is that they write down an 'appropriate' reason why there was an overstay (whatever immigration wants to hear), and money passes to the people stamping the papers. I think I was seen as a money making opportunity by the corrupt immigration officials and so was put on this list.

The lessons/things learned are the following

1. Of course, don't overstay ever (in any country).

2. Do NOT go directly to the immigration department ever. Work through a travel agency or lawyer.

3. Immigration will never tell you OR the travel agencies if you are or are not, nor WHY, nor for how long you are on any list. If you get denied for a visa, that's how you know. I knew someone who knew someone on the inside--that's how I was able to see details.

4. They can make up any reason they see fit to put you on the list; it doesn't have to be legitimate.

5. Your home country embassy will not help you, nor will get involved with Visa related issues.

6. $3000 will take you off any list and provide you with a 1 year visa.

7. Don't say that you're a photographer.


Anyway, I'm a legitimate, certified, experienced English teacher and I subsequently moved to China (oh my god the paperwork!) and got a wonderful job, where I'll reside until 2020 or so and then give visa application another shot.

I hope this helps some people with their own issues!

The only unanswered question I have is this: I got a new passport (completely new number) and I'm wondering what would happen if I now applied. Anyone have any idea?

Best of luck for those in similar circumstances who aren't criminals and get errantly placed on this list!

Wait...

You are an English teacher?

But when they asked, you said something (anything?) else???

Is that because you were teaching illegally, without an employer work permit?

How about this:

If asked what you are doing here, and you are on a TOURIST Visa, tell them you are sightseeing, ya think?

I mean if I'm right, and I'm picking up on your bread crumbs, and you are trying to obscure your illegal employment, why use other employment to obscure the illegal employment, if the other employment was not legal either?

Maybe you should have said you write for Bob Guccione?

Yes, I'm a teacher. And during this time I was not teaching. I was looking for a position, on a tourist visa and interviewing at different schools in order to get off the endless tourist visa cycle.

I was there about a year and a half, and when I arrived I had a 6 month work visa, and worked at a school. I went through a normal agency to get the visa (seemingly legit) but later found out that while it WAS a legit visa, technically, what the agencies do is have an arrangement with a random company and they claim you as an employee. A 'work visa' in VN doesn't allow you to work anywhere, it allows you to work at a specific location. The original school I had worked for said it would be $2000 to break that visa and get a school sponsored visa (since it was a multi-entry visa).

On the paper, I did say I was a tourist, that I'm a dancer and photographer. I think maybe they, and you, are interpreting Photography and Dancing as a job, when they're not--they're purely for fun.

I think I would have been much better off if I had been teaching under the table!

ekidhardt wrote:

Yes, I'm a teacher. And during this time I was not teaching. I was looking for a position, on a tourist visa and interviewing at different schools in order to get off the endless tourist visa cycle.

I was there about a year and a half, and when I arrived I had a 6 month work visa, and worked at a school. I went through a normal agency to get the visa (seemingly legit) but later found out that while it WAS a legit visa, technically, what the agencies do is have an arrangement with a random company and they claim you as an employee. A 'work visa' in VN doesn't allow you to work anywhere, it allows you to work at a specific location. The original school I had worked for said it would be $2000 to break that visa and get a school sponsored visa (since it was a multi-entry visa).

On the paper, I did say I was a tourist, that I'm a dancer and photographer. I think maybe they, and you, are interpreting Photography and Dancing as a job, when they're not--they're purely for fun.

I think I would have been much better off if I had been teaching under the table!

So, another twist in the story...

First, you must mean a six month BUSINESS visa, especially since you got it through an agent and not by using your own sponsor through an embassy or consulate.

Was it category DN?

The anonymous "XYZ" company behind the Visa On Arrival sponsorship of a DN business visa does NOT claim the applicant as an "employee".

They certify you for "exploring business opportunities".

So your employment at that school WAS illegal, since your visa was never changed.

That also fits the description of "teaching under the table".

That right there is plenty of reason to blacklist you.

How did you switch from that visa to a tourist visa, to cover the other year you are talking about?

If you didn't leave the country (even for a same day border run) to SWITCH types of visas, then another law was likely broken, if your agent managed to get the NEW TYPE of visa stamp for your passport AND have your passport stamped without you exiting the country and returning.

Very important for the casual reader to understand that some visa RENEWALS apparently can be done without leaving the country, but SWITCHING to a different type of visa THROUGH A V.O.A. AGENT *legally* requires a border run of some type.

Of course, even that requirement can probably be sidestepped ILLEGALLY, which I'm thinking *may* have been what transpired in your case.

You first called yourself a "professional" dancer, saying that's what you told immigration.

Now you say you meant to list that as something you do "purely for fun".

Let's say you aren't a troll and that you are somehow, haphazardly, telling 'the truth'.

I'm not even an immigration officer and I think something doesn't add up with your story.

So, as you said, as the Embassies and Consulates also say, Immigration can block you from entering the country for ANY reason, even if you smell badly or your story stinks to them.

Suspicion is all they need.

In your case, they likely had more than suspicion when they started looking at your visa paper trail.

Also, I'm going to bet you posted photos to social media (since you do that "purely for fun" also) and you likely made new social media contacts here.

If you posted even one photo deemed to be offensive or in opposition to the government, there's another reason for them to blacklist you.

During my 6 years in DaNang, I have nothing but good things to say about the members of the immigration office here.  Be it at the airport, or two locations in the city...which one has moved to Hanoi.  They have always been up front, polite and most of all respectful to not only me but of those that I have directed to them. 
Saigon and Hanoi may be a different 'animal', I found going to an agent in Saigon for 7 years was much easier than the lines and BS that you had to do.  Still it was much easier and cheaper with the ones I used. 
As to actually stating you were a photographer...true or false, I would never put something like that down.  Also, if an American your passport is stamped also with a 'good to stay date' which is usually written out with a date on it to remain. 
Work permits and visa/TRC's are not expensive if going direct to the horses grazing area.  Agencies charge a small fortune and some schools say as much as 15 million for a work permit and TRC's...a lie.  I've paid out of pocket direct and not nearly that cost...

It's very simple : look at the stamps the Immigration Office gave you , it shows very clear day-month-year ,
Probably you overlooked this ,

Interesting story.
I think the 1st respondent is correct to be suspicious. I am particularly suspicious of the poster's insistence upon always going through a travel agency...