safety for woman

Hello friendly expats, 

Would appreciate any advises, tips beyond my request.
Although I'm a Vietnamese born woman in my 70'.  I have lived abroad since 50 years (now in Rome, Italy) and not knowing where I belong to anymore.  At the end of my days I would like to live in Vung tau 3, 4 months a year, to explore my own culture and country.

Safety is my concern.
1/ Could it be nice to live in those skyscrapers in Bai Sau?  Is it safe to walk about in late afternoon alone, I would not want to ride a motorbike and think of using taxi or Xe Om.
2/  I would want to explore the possibility of volunteer for teaching or participate in support activity for children.

I'm on Italy forum if you need anything.

Thanks everybody

Vietnam overall is very safe, smaller cities like VT are very, very safe. You wont have any issues here.

As Colin said, VT is very, very safe.  Several times a week, my niece (in her 50s) and I (in my 60s) walk from Bai Truoc to Bai Sau via inland streets at 10PM.  Non abbiamo nessuna preoccupazione.  Also, my husband and I often walk from Bai Sau to Bai Truoc along the esplanade at 4:30 AM when we're only two of many regular walkers, bicyclists, exercisers, and early swimmers.

We don't live in the high rises so I can't help you with the 1st question. 

For the 2nd question, I have a list of a dozen organizations (mostly religious) where orphans and disabled children are being cared for and they always need volunteers.  PM me if you're interested.

In addition, if you still can read Vietnamese, Tình nguyện Vũng Tàu (Vung Tau Volunteer Portal) has a FB page where you can contact them directly.

If you want to help with English language or working with youths and young adults, The Lab is a good place to start spreading the word.

Thank you so much.

Thank you very much Ciambella for your reply.  Grazie mille.   I read your profile and glad that you know Italy as well.
This plan won't be until the end of 2019.  I'm trying to find the freshest month to come.   In the mean time I will explore the information you gave regarding volunteer work.  Have you lived in VT long?  May I ask why chose VT.
(yes I do speak Vietnamese still and good too}.  I hope to be useful for expat friends in the future for interpretation.   
Thanks again and until the next.
Luna

luna2000 :

Have you lived in VT long?  May I ask why chose VT.

We moved to VT a year ago.  It suits us well because of many reasons: 

it's a small city where people still know one another in many areas; 
it's a peninsula so being lost is not an issue (I'm directionally challenged); 
it's within an easy ride to Tân Sơn Nhất (we travel very often); 
there's always a cool breeze in early mornings, late afternoons, evenings, and nights, even during the warmest months; 
clean air; 
little traffic; 
not too pretty so it'll never be taken over by Chinese tourists as other coastal cities in VN;
Bai Sau almost always has plenty of waves for Boogie boarding (husband was/is a surfer who prefers Boogie board over surfboard in his old age)

Also because I had a long history with VT:

I used to come here from Saigon almost every weekend during my teens and early 20s;
this was my last residence before I left the country in 1975; 
I used to know every street and landmark from one end to another back in the days when it was still called Cấp by the locals and the Saigonnais

My husband liked it immediately the first time I introduced him to the city.  He lived for almost 50 years in Laguna Beach, a small and (at the time) isolated coastal town in Southern California, and although far from beautiful, VT reminds him of Laguna before it became a tourist trap.

Because of those reasons, VT will continue to be our home for as long as we live in VN.

Ciambella :
luna2000 :

Have you lived in VT long?  May I ask why chose VT.

We moved to VT a year ago.  It suits us well because of many reasons: 

it's a small city where people still know one another in many areas; 
it's a peninsula so being lost is not an issue (I'm directionally challenged); 
it's within an easy ride to Tân Sơn Nhất (we travel very often); 
there's always a cool breeze in early mornings, late afternoons, evenings, and nights, even during the warmest months; 
clean air; 
little traffic; 
not too pretty so it'll never be taken over by Chinese tourists as other coastal cities in VN;
Bai Sau almost always has plenty of waves for Boogie boarding (husband was/is a surfer who prefers Boogie board over surfboard in his old age)

Also because I had a long history with VT:

I used to come here from Saigon almost every weekend during my teens and early 20s;
this was my last residence before I left the country in 1975; 
I used to know every street and landmark from one end to another back in the days when it was still called Cấp by the locals and the Saigonnais

My husband liked it immediately the first time I introduced him to the city.  He lived for almost 50 years in Laguna Beach, a small and (at the time) isolated coastal town in Southern California, and although far from beautiful, VT reminds him of Laguna before it became a tourist trap.

Because of those reasons, VT will continue to be our home for as long as we live in VN.

Just wondering what Vung Tau really is, a peninsula or island. It is cut off from the mainland by water, so technically it's an island.

Can you look it up on Vietnamese websites and see what it really is referred to as?

Safe but always should be careful

colinoscapee :

Just wondering what Vung Tau really is, a peninsula or island. It is cut off from the mainland by water, so technically it's an island.

Can you look it up on Vietnamese websites and see what it really is referred to as?

I spent the morning reading two dozen articles dated between April 1975 and Feb 2019 and consulting the Administrative Map of VT on ITGATE VN (a Vietnamese technology magazine).  If there's a mention of VT geography anywhere, it's always called bán đảo (peninsular).  The official site of UBND (People's Committee), however, contradicts itself: 

" VT borders the sea and rivers on 4 sides:  East Sea to the East and South, Gành Rái Bay to the West, Bà Rịa City, Tân Thành District and Long Điền District to the North". 

Another local government site says the same thing but added "via Cỏ May River" to the end of the sentence.

This is my deduction: 

- If we consider Cỏ May River a significant body of water (which we should because in spite of its size, it connects Gành Rái Bay and East Sea), then VT is definitely an island. 

- If we agree with the masses who think the bridge over Cỏ May River is the tie that binds VT to Bà Rịa and Long Hải, then VT is only a peninsular.

The website that added "via Cỏ May River" must have had a problem accepting UBND's word but didn't want to stir the pot.

OTOH, differencebetween.net (one of my favourites as it's perhaps the least bias site on the Internet) indicates that "Islands necessarily need to be accessed either by air or by water but the peninsula’s have a land access as well."

This was the same problem that Long Island, NY faced.  The US Supreme Court deemed that it's a peninsula and not an island because, among other things, East River which separates Long Island from NYC is not an opening to the sea.  I would say VT has a more solid case because Cỏ May River is definitely an opening to the very important Biển Đông or East Sea (the official name in Vietnamese history and geography books, although it's called South Sea in China, and South China Sea by the rest of Western world except the BBC and VOA.)

Hi Ciambella,

Your research is very interesting.  I always think it's a peninsular.

Yes I would like to PM you, how can I do that?  Have a wonderful weekend. :D

luna2000 :

Yes I would like to PM you, how can I do that?  Have a wonderful weekend. :D

If you click on my name, my profile would come up with two boxes:  Add to Contacts and Send a Message.  Send a Message is the window to PM.

Ciambella :

This was the same problem that Long Island, NY faced.  The US Supreme Court deemed that it's a peninsula and not an island because, among other things, East River which separates Long Island from NYC is not an opening to the sea.

I wonder how the court decided this as Manhattan which is across the East River from Long Island is generally referred to as an island.  That would make Long Island a much larger peninsula of a smaller island.   :joking:

Just curious about the 2 beaches there. I was there 2 years ago for the first time and had a driver so wasn't sure which beach we went to. The one I was at had the lounge area with the fresh seafood preparation station. Pay to rent the chairs, pay for the bathroom.

Can you let me know what the difference between the 2 beaches? I think the one we didn't go to, the driver mentioned it wasn't as clean? I could be wrong. My Vietnamese isn't very good.

Thanks!

qnbui :

I was there 2 years ago for the first time and had a driver so wasn't sure which beach we went to. The one I was at had the lounge area with the fresh seafood preparation station. Pay to rent the chairs, pay for the bathroom.

Can you let me know what the difference between the 2 beaches? I think the one we didn't go to, the driver mentioned it wasn't as clean?

You must have been here more than 2 years ago because neither main beach has a lounge or a fresh seafood preparation station anymore.  Eating on the beach has been banned since Jan 1, 2016.   You still have to pay to rent chairs on Back Beach (Front Beach doesn’t have chair rental) but bathroom on either beach is free.

The two main beaches are Front Beach (Bãi Trước) and Back Beach (Bãi Sau).  The smaller beaches are Strawberry Beach (Bãi Dâu), Pineapple Beach (Bãi Dứa) and Moon Viewing Beach (Bãi Vọng Nguyệt).  Farther on either side are Daffodil Beach (Bãi Thuỷ Tiên) and Frog Hill Beach (Bãi Đồi Nhái).

Front Beach is a bay, Back Beach is a long stretch (10km) of sand. 

Front Beach has a pretty green park and an exercise area.  On the street side of Front Beach, there's a much larger park where children skate and adults dance in the evening.  There are also fancy and not-too-fancy cafes, bars, restaurants, high-rise condos and hotels.  Lots of neon lights. 

Back Beach also has a park but not as pretty, and a square where young men play football in the daytime and concerts or other celebrations are held periodically on weekends.  On the street side of Back Beach are hotels, general stores, and street food.  Not many bars.

Aesthetically speaking, Front Beach is better.  Functionally speaking, Bach Beach is better.

Back Beach is not as clean as Front Beach simply because it's larger, longer, and there are more people.  It has more waves and wind so it attracts swimmers, bodyboarders, kiteboarders, and beginner surfers.  Front Beach is completely without waves and not much sand, but has better view.

Many locals prefer the smaller beaches because they're the cleanest of all the beaches.  Photographers also like them for the landscape.

Ciambella :

You must have been here more than 2 years ago because neither main beach has a lounge or a fresh seafood preparation station anymore.  Eating on the beach has been banned since Jan 1, 2016.   You still have to pay to rent chairs on Back Beach (Front Beach doesn’t have chair rental) but bathroom on either beach is free.

Ciambella, my first visit back to VN was in March of 2017 and VT was one of the trip we went to from Saigon. We sat on the rented beach chair right off the sand. Right next to the chair rentals, there were fish tanks with seafood and woks for them to cook the food that we picked out. It wasn't directly on the sand but right where the sand ends and the sidewalk/chairs start.

qnbui :

Ciambella, my first visit back to VN was in March of 2017 and VT was one of the trip we went to from Saigon. We sat on the rented beach chair right off the sand. Right next to the chair rentals, there were fish tanks with seafood and woks for them to cook the food that we picked out. It wasn't directly on the sand but right where the sand ends and the sidewalk/chairs start.

It sounds like Bãi Chí Linh in Chí Linh Tourist Village (Làng Du Lịch Chí Linh), a resort beach.  There are several lounges with chairs, hammocks between trees, restaurants, BBQ huts, grill, and a market, all of them next to one another and only a few steps from the sand.  I don't know about the fish tank, but I do know they provide fresh seafood.  The sand is definitely cleaner there than at the main beaches.

If there's a decent parking area for the car you rented, then it's definitely it.  There's not much of parking at the main beaches, most cars are parked on the street.

In a country that has a labor supply that allows for sweeping streets by hand, it seems surprising that a place like VT doesn't pay people to rake the public beach by hand every night.

THIGV :

In a country that has a labor supply that allows for sweeping streets by hand, it seems surprising that a place like VT doesn't pay people to rake the public beach by hand every night.

That's exactly what I say to husband every evening during our walk.  The sand is actually not dirty most of the time, only after a big weekend, but the esplanade and the sidewalk beyond it are filthy with caked-in dirt and stains, and the Vietnamese tourists are walking barefoot on them.  Ugh!

I keep saying why doesn't the government pay a small team of cleaners, 3 people at the most, one person to drive a car with a water tank on it, one to hose down the stones, and one to sweep.  Or, just ask the hotels across the street to contribute to the cleaning.  If every hotel pays to clean a small square directly across the street from their steps, the entire Back Beach esplanade would sparkle like the one in Nha Trang.  Front Beach businesses rake in a lot more money than Back Beach, it'd be even easier for them to donate the small bills at the end of the day.

Ciambella :
THIGV :

In a country that has a labor supply that allows for sweeping streets by hand, it seems surprising that a place like VT doesn't pay people to rake the public beach by hand every night.

That's exactly what I say to husband every evening during our walk.  The sand is actually not dirty most of the time, only after a big weekend, but the esplanade and the sidewalk beyond it are filthy with caked-in dirt and stains, and the Vietnamese tourists are walking barefoot on them.  Ugh!

I keep saying why doesn't the government pay a small team of cleaners, 3 people at the most, one person to drive a car with a water tank on it, one to hose down the stones, and one to sweep.  Or, just ask the hotels across the street to contribute to the cleaning.  If every hotel pays to clean a small square directly across the street from their steps, the entire Back Beach esplanade would sparkle like the one in Nha Trang.  Front Beach businesses rake in a lot more money than Back Beach, it'd be even easier for them to donate the small bills at the end of the day.

You have to tell them that cleanliness is important for tourists and expats.

For the most locals, cleanliness (except personal hygiene) is not important enough to work for.

Ciambella :
THIGV :

In a country that has a labor supply that allows for sweeping streets by hand, it seems surprising that a place like VT doesn't pay people to rake the public beach by hand every night.

That's exactly what I say to husband every evening during our walk.  The sand is actually not dirty most of the time, only after a big weekend, but the esplanade and the sidewalk beyond it are filthy with caked-in dirt and stains, and the Vietnamese tourists are walking barefoot on them.  Ugh!

I keep saying why doesn't the government pay a small team of cleaners, 3 people at the most, one person to drive a car with a water tank on it, one to hose down the stones, and one to sweep.  Or, just ask the hotels across the street to contribute to the cleaning.  If every hotel pays to clean a small square directly across the street from their steps, the entire Back Beach esplanade would sparkle like the one in Nha Trang.  Front Beach businesses rake in a lot more money than Back Beach, it'd be even easier for them to donate the small bills at the end of the day.

Great minds think alike, I keep talking about this with my wife. It's obvious the administration have no idea, the condition of the walkways is terrible. Mind you, the beach is much cleaner and quieter than 5 years ago.

Andy Passenger :

For the most locals, cleanliness (except personal hygiene) is not important enough to work for.

You're absolutely correct.  Also bad is the attitude of "Why should I care?  It's not my home."  The older men and women who swept the sidewalk in front of their shops AND the ones on either side of them have gone for good; in their place is the younger crowd that litters and leaves their rubbish behind even if the trash bin is two steps away.

colinoscapee :

Great minds think alike, I keep talking about this with my wife. It's obvious the administration have no idea, the condition of the walkways is terrible. Mind you, the beach is much cleaner and quieter than 5 years ago.

Yes, it's cleaner now than when selling food and eating on the beach were still allowed. 

BTW, why are motorbikes allowed on the walkways at the beach?  There are mothers pushing strollers and children running around on the walkways, and the motorbikes are weaving between them with horn blaring, every day.

This may be drifting into the realm of Random Observations but the most egregious act of littering that I ever witnessed was a young lady riding on the back seat of a motorbike dropping an ice filled cà phê đá cup right in front of an elderly woman walking on the side of the street where there was no sidewalk.  A culture that respects the elderly may be becoming one in which the young may respect their own grandparents but not the grandparents of others.

Ciambella :
colinoscapee :

Great minds think alike, I keep talking about this with my wife. It's obvious the administration have no idea, the condition of the walkways is terrible. Mind you, the beach is much cleaner and quieter than 5 years ago.

Yes, it's cleaner now than when selling food and eating on the beach were still allowed. 

BTW, why are motorbikes allowed on the walkways at the beach?  There are mothers pushing strollers and children running around on the walkways, and the motorbikes are weaving between them with horn blaring, every day.

All because the town security is not doing their job. They put signs up about no hawking, yet they are still there. Most of the security guys are sitting in a group on their phones. Just near my house is a small lake that locals use as a dumping ground, go past at any time of the night and there they all are on their phones doing squat.

Doing crackdowns every few months will acheive nothing.  :D

If you want a good laugh check out the security at the Lotte circle. The security sets up shop on one side and the prostitutes and drug dealers move to the other side. The security moves to the opposite side and the pros and druggies do the same.😀

THIGV :

This may be drifting into the realm of Random Observations but the most egregious act of littering that I ever witnessed was a young lady riding on the back seat of a motorbike dropping an ice filled cà phê đá cup right in front of an elderly woman walking on the side of the street where there was no sidewalk.  A culture that respects the elderly may be becoming one in which the young may respect their own grandparents but not the grandparents of others.

The truck drivers throw everything out the window, too. They throw cups full of ice in front of or at other cars without looking out of the window before.
I remembered when I was young it was not abnormal to throw all the garbage out of the car, even in the West.
You just have to wait another 30 years until that changes here as well.

It is not only that.
I watch every day how people collect the garbage in front of their house and then throw it onto the unused neighbor's property next door.
Every 10m waste is burned.  Also plastic which is the worst.  You really smell the hydrochloric acid in the air.

Our new neighbours in Ben Luc burn their waste every day although the disposal fee is only about 50k per month.

It will take decades for people here to become sensitive to this issue and to become aware of the dangerous nature of their actions.

Really enjoying this thread ...

Andy Passenger :

You have to tell them that cleanliness is important for tourists and expats.

OTOH, if the beaches were to become pristine, word would go out, in no time you will have Tourist-ville. Buses and hordes and traffic. I think it is a good thing that tourists and expats are deterred by "VT beaches are dirty".  :cool:

gobot :

Really enjoying this thread ...

Andy Passenger :

You have to tell them that cleanliness is important for tourists and expats.

OTOH, if the beaches were to become pristine, word would go out, in no time you will have Tourist-ville. Buses and hordes and traffic. I think it is a good thing that tourists and expats are deterred by "VT beaches are dirty".  :cool:

It doesn't deter the Saigonese, they come here by the thousands on weekends.

colinoscapee :
gobot :

Really enjoying this thread ...

Andy Passenger :

You have to tell them that cleanliness is important for tourists and expats.

OTOH, if the beaches were to become pristine, word would go out, in no time you will have Tourist-ville. Buses and hordes and traffic. I think it is a good thing that tourists and expats are deterred by "VT beaches are dirty".  :cool:

It doesn't deter the Saigonese, they come here by the thousands on weekends.

On working days we were already a few times in Vung Tau, at the end of Back Beach (at the golf course). This place is very quiet and relaxing. In the evening a walk to the seafood market behind the Imperial Hotel and enjoying very tasty seafood.
That's all it takes.

I would never go there on the weekend.
Also the hotels are more expensive on the weekend.

Andy Passenger :

I would never go there on the weekend.
Also the hotels are more expensive on the weekend.

Food is also more expensive from Friday afternoon to Sunday evening.  Same restaurants, same wet markets, same food, higher prices on weekends and holidays.  Locals only go out to eat or buy groceries on weekdays.  I was instructed to buy all our food by Thursday the latest.

Ciambella :
Andy Passenger :

For the most locals, cleanliness (except personal hygiene) is not important enough to work for.

You're absolutely correct.  Also bad is the attitude of "Why should I care?  It's not my home."  The older men and women who swept the sidewalk in front of their shops AND the ones on either side of them have gone for good; in their place is the younger crowd that litters and leaves their rubbish behind even if the trash bin is two steps away.

and you can blame the parents for this. They are the same type who'd let their kid take a dump on the sidewalk or in the middle of a shopping mall.

I would like to remind the expatriates that Vietnam came out of 100 years of French colonializzation, 20 years of domestic war with the big help of China and the US  in arms, won the war by the North Vietnamese soldiers who lived underground for 2 generations, survived years of economic sanctions, and now is still developing.   The government gives priority in building infrastructure for commerce and tourism instead of education. The average Vietnamese people struggle to send children to elementary school, not talking about university or what. 
It's not Switzerland or the United States of America.

If the social consciousness of the people are not that high, it is to blame the years of domination and war enduring, the 20 years of poverty struggling, the lack of amenities in housing, that's why people sh'' on the street.

To the expats who choose to live in this poor developing country.  Most of the Viet Kieu chose to go back and live here is because they still long to be Vietnamese, living the way they grew up with, secondly, it is great to have foreign pension to spend in Vietnam as it is still very affordable.  For other nationalities the second reason apply the most.  You want to live in Vietnam because you have a more comfortable life here than in your country, where your meager pension would make you feel a poor citizen.   You should consciously be aware of the country, the people's situation.  It is what it is,  don't try to compare with your own country or other, otherwise why don't you just stay there where you were.

I would like to point out that, these Vietnamese people are mostly friendly to foreigners who comes and use their resources, water, power, food, structure, landscape....they share all with you. (try to go to Nigeria, for example, and see how they treat you.
There are even too many expatriates, the young IT nomads, the pensioners, a lot of scums and criminals too! who allow themselves to feel superior to the locals.
You spend your big $$ (bigger than the locals for sure) .  and  create inflation of every thing in daily life.  The locals struggle for the continuous raised cost of living:  food, rent, transport etc.

There is nothing that allows one human  feel superior to others.  It's all due to circumstances, where and when you were born and grow up, what color you were born too.  Sometimes one has no choice..  The only thing that differentiate one person to another is the thorough understanding of the law of relativity and compassion to other fellow beings.

luna2000 :

I would like to remind the expatriates that Vietnam came out of 100 years of French colonializzation, 20 years of domestic war with the big help of China and the US  in arms, won the war by the North Vietnamese soldiers who lived underground for 2 generations, survived years of economic sanctions, and now is still developing.   The government gives priority in building infrastructure for commerce and tourism instead of education. The average Vietnamese people struggle to send children to elementary school, not talking about university or what. 
It's not Switzerland or the United States of America.

If the social consciousness of the people are not that high, it is to blame the years of domination and war enduring, the 20 years of poverty struggling, the lack of amenities in housing, that's why people sh'' on the street.

To the expats who choose to live in this poor developing country.  Most of the Viet Kieu chose to go back and live here is because they still long to be Vietnamese, living the way they grew up with, secondly, it is great to have foreign pension to spend in Vietnam as it is still very affordable.  For other nationalities the second reason apply the most.  You want to live in Vietnam because you have a more comfortable life here than in your country, where your meager pension would make you feel a poor citizen.   You should consciously be aware of the country, the people's situation.  It is what it is,  don't try to compare with your own country or other, otherwise why don't you just stay there where you were.

I would like to point out that, these Vietnamese people are mostly friendly to foreigners who comes and use their resources, water, power, food, structure, landscape....they share all with you. (try to go to Nigeria, for example, and see how they treat you.
There are even too many expatriates, the young IT nomads, the pensioners, a lot of scums and criminals too! who allow themselves to feel superior to the locals.
You spend your big $$ (bigger than the locals for sure) .  and  create inflation of every thing in daily life.  The locals struggle for the continuous raised cost of living:  food, rent, transport etc.

There is nothing that allows one human  feel superior to others.  It's all due to circumstances, where and when you were born and grow up, what color you were born too.  Sometimes one has no choice..  The only thing that differentiate one person to another is the thorough understanding of the law of relativity and compassion to other fellow beings.

Anything else?

That's too much for me now.

Most of the time the sayings "if you don't like it here, you can go back at home" come from the same country, from people who don't even live in Vietnam, or hurry home to Mamma because of every little thing.

Time to go for me.

It is enough when I have to be angry every day while reading the world press about the monstrosities of this megalomaniac smart-ass country.

So I don't need a forum where I have to read annoying comments every day in addition.

luna2000 :

I would like to remind the expatriates that Vietnam came out of 100 years of French colonializzation, 20 years of domestic war with the big help of China and the US  in arms, won the war by the North Vietnamese soldiers who lived underground for 2 generations, survived years of economic sanctions, and now is still developing.   The government gives priority in building infrastructure for commerce and tourism instead of education. The average Vietnamese people struggle to send children to elementary school, not talking about university or what. 
It's not Switzerland or the United States of America.

If the social consciousness of the people are not that high, it is to blame the years of domination and war enduring, the 20 years of poverty struggling, the lack of amenities in housing, that's why people sh'' on the street.

To the expats who choose to live in this poor developing country.  Most of the Viet Kieu chose to go back and live here is because they still long to be Vietnamese, living the way they grew up with, secondly, it is great to have foreign pension to spend in Vietnam as it is still very affordable.  For other nationalities the second reason apply the most.  You want to live in Vietnam because you have a more comfortable life here than in your country, where your meager pension would make you feel a poor citizen.   You should consciously be aware of the country, the people's situation.  It is what it is,  don't try to compare with your own country or other, otherwise why don't you just stay there where you were.

I would like to point out that, these Vietnamese people are mostly friendly to foreigners who comes and use their resources, water, power, food, structure, landscape....they share all with you. (try to go to Nigeria, for example, and see how they treat you.
There are even too many expatriates, the young IT nomads, the pensioners, a lot of scums and criminals too! who allow themselves to feel superior to the locals.
You spend your big $$ (bigger than the locals for sure) .  and  create inflation of every thing in daily life.  The locals struggle for the continuous raised cost of living:  food, rent, transport etc.

There is nothing that allows one human  feel superior to others.  It's all due to circumstances, where and when you were born and grow up, what color you were born too.  Sometimes one has no choice..  The only thing that differentiate one person to another is the thorough understanding of the law of relativity and compassion to other fellow beings.

😪

luna2000 :

If the social consciousness of the people are not that high, it is to blame the years of domination and war enduring, the 20 years of poverty struggling, the lack of amenities in housing, that's why people sh'' on the street.

This was a very good excuse a few years ago, but now I really don't buy it. I know many Vietnamese in Vietnam who act in a "civilised" way and are aware that many Vietnamese don't behave in a good manner. You can blame the past up to a point. In 2019, having my Vietnamese neighbour in a hotel leaving his room's door open, speak loudly with his friends and the smoke from their cigarettes all the way up my nose is not because of past wars and poverty.

My simple and inextensive travels managed to teach me one thing - Most people are civilised, but many are civilised in different ways and the narrow of mind tend not to notice.

What is civilised, the massive drug problem in the UK, and the crackpot gun culture and murder rate in the US?  We could always consider French squat toilets and the 5300 Parisians that were hammered with fines for urinating in the street in 2017.
Perhaps because the US and UK are civilised because they have sit down toilets and the people wash their hands after a poop - well, the Bradley Corporation assure us 66% of people in the states do, but 70% fail to use soap. Those numbers roughly follow in the civilised United Kingdom, a wonderful place that has seen 130 murders in London alone so far this year (and it's still march).

I find someone with an open mind tends to be able to see civilisation better than a closed one and, just as importantly, is able to see their point of view isn't the only one.

luna2000 :

Hello friendly expats, 

Would appreciate any advises, tips beyond my request.
Although I'm a Vietnamese born woman in my 70'.  I have lived abroad since 50 years (now in Rome, Italy) and not knowing where I belong to anymore.  At the end of my days I would like to live in Vung tau 3, 4 months a year, to explore my own culture and country.

Safety is my concern.
1/ Could it be nice to live in those skyscrapers in Bai Sau?  Is it safe to walk about in late afternoon alone, I would not want to ride a motorbike and think of using taxi or Xe Om.
2/  I would want to explore the possibility of volunteer for teaching or participate in support activity for children.

I'm on Italy forum if you need anything.

Thanks everybody

I wonder why you trust our advice?

In another thread, you issued a negative blanket assessment about all of us.

If you were directing it at one person, it certainly didn't read that way.

For instance, if I replied to your post: "You women need to know...", it would be an inappropriate response to YOU.

Further, why are you coming to Vietnam if the fear factor/uncertainty is great enough to warrant a thread on the subject?

I suppose you might ask the same question if you were considering a move to Nashville or Detroit or Seattle...correct?

I'm just saying, aren't you more afraid of us anonymous expat avatars than you are of your fellow Vietnamese people?

Nice to get to know you...

foralex :

Safe but always should be careful

Have you been to Rome?

Everyplace in Vietnam is safer than comparable cities in Italy, big or small, major crime or minor.

GuestPoster0147 :
luna2000 :

I would like to remind the expatriates that Vietnam came out of 100 years of French colonializzation, 20 years of domestic war with the big help of China and the US  in arms, won the war by the North Vietnamese soldiers who lived underground for 2 generations, survived years of economic sanctions, and now is still developing.   The government gives priority in building infrastructure for commerce and tourism instead of education. The average Vietnamese people struggle to send children to elementary school, not talking about university or what. 
It's not Switzerland or the United States of America.

If the social consciousness of the people are not that high, it is to blame the years of domination and war enduring, the 20 years of poverty struggling, the lack of amenities in housing, that's why people sh'' on the street.

To the expats who choose to live in this poor developing country.  Most of the Viet Kieu chose to go back and live here is because they still long to be Vietnamese, living the way they grew up with, secondly, it is great to have foreign pension to spend in Vietnam as it is still very affordable.  For other nationalities the second reason apply the most.  You want to live in Vietnam because you have a more comfortable life here than in your country, where your meager pension would make you feel a poor citizen.   You should consciously be aware of the country, the people's situation.  It is what it is,  don't try to compare with your own country or other, otherwise why don't you just stay there where you were.

I would like to point out that, these Vietnamese people are mostly friendly to foreigners who comes and use their resources, water, power, food, structure, landscape....they share all with you. (try to go to Nigeria, for example, and see how they treat you.
There are even too many expatriates, the young IT nomads, the pensioners, a lot of scums and criminals too! who allow themselves to feel superior to the locals.
You spend your big $$ (bigger than the locals for sure) .  and  create inflation of every thing in daily life.  The locals struggle for the continuous raised cost of living:  food, rent, transport etc.

There is nothing that allows one human  feel superior to others.  It's all due to circumstances, where and when you were born and grow up, what color you were born too.  Sometimes one has no choice..  The only thing that differentiate one person to another is the thorough understanding of the law of relativity and compassion to other fellow beings.

Anything else?

That's too much for me now.

Most of the time the sayings "if you don't like it here, you can go back at home" come from the same country, from people who don't even live in Vietnam, or hurry home to Mamma because of every little thing.

Time to go for me.

It is enough when I have to be angry every day while reading the world press about the monstrosities of this megalomaniac smart-ass country.

So I don't need a forum where I have to read annoying comments every day in addition.

But you couldn't stay away, could you Andy?

:cheers:

Amazing, that such in so high ages still haven't found herself.

Hi Ocean Beach, You are absolutely right.  I agree with you and apologize for my reply to the complaints of the dirt and uncivilized behavior of the locals.  I should have pointed out and replied directly to that specific post, instead of using the general word YOU.   
I hope you have a wonderful Sunday, and who knows?  we may have a drink together someday.

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