Thailand tired of expats

This could answer one question

https://www.farang-deaths.com/archive/#anchor

Anton&Jacky wrote:

It has been a few years I have been to Thailand, and are planning to go back(Hopefully permanent). I have read a lot in the news this last year of expats leaving Thailand, the statistics of surveys done shows a lot of expats have left Thailand.
Any clarification on the above will be appreciated.
Thank you and enjoy your day!

There are so many reasons expats leave Thailand, just like they leave many other countries after living there for a while. You can read on the Expat.com forum for other countries (especially the Caribbean and Central American countries) and will see that people leave those countries too when they get tired of living there. Some people are naïve, they never left their own country and go to another country because it's less expensive and leave for whatever reason and then blame the people and/or the country. Some people just get homesick, some run out of money and can't work or make a living here and go back home and some spend all of their money on entertainment & ladies and then leave when their relationship ends or worse, they commit suicide. Yes, some die here as Mr. Fred's link shows... And, many of them only have themselves to blame. So, please come and enjoy the adventure, the culture and the wonderful people here and if it turns out not to be your thing, then you can always leave. The Thai people I met have been very polite & kind and I truly believe they like expats. You just have to be careful about who you befriend especially in a bar and keep a tight hold on your money and not spend all of it and become destitute like some you will read about. And, the retirement visa may seen like a hassle, but go try most other countries and you will see Thailand is one of the easiest & least expensive places to get a long-stay visa (1,900 THB per year is hard to beat anywhere).
That's my 2 cents worth... Kindly, Zeus

Hi Anton&Jacky

I've been living in Thailand for 21 years now, non-stop (although I went back to England once, eight years ago). For various reasons I decided to jack it all in, back in the UK when I was 47, and Thailand seemed cheap enough and warm enough to stay for a year or two.

Back in the late '90s everything was super-cheap and super-easy. F'rinstance, I had NO idea about visas. (Remember this was pre Google, Facebook and social media.) So I arrived with a double-entry tourist visa, extended it for another 90 days within Thailand, then went to Penang to get another extendable 60-day visa. It was effortless. I continued to do this, end-to-end, on a tourist visa, for 6 years.

It was somewhere around 2005 when everything started to get tighter - now I had to get myself a job with a work permit - and it's been going this way, getting more and more restrictive - ever since.

Fair enough! I would expect any nation to restrict and enforce the visas it issues. But it is getting sillier and sillier now, worse each year - and going to extremes. Now if I want to apply for a visa to get a work permit I have to also declare a non-criminal record. I have to do it from the source (original documents and not copies) and additionally I have to present my original university degree certificate - I never even collected it.

The fact that I was employed as a teacher in the UK for 30-odd years and ended up as a deputy principal isn't sufficient - they need to see the original degree certificate from 45 years ago!

It's the increase in petty bureaucracy and nit-picking that's getting everyone down, businesses even more so. I had my wallet stolen last year (passport, work permit etc). And if I wrote down all the steps it needed to get a new passport, work visa and work permit, it would bore you to death.

Suffice it to say that the Thai Labor Department kept returning my application, asking for additional documents (dammit! They refused to acknowledge that I had been working for the same employer without a break for 12 years!) and eventually it got to 6 weeks they'd been messing me about, and then eventually the visa in the lost passport expired and I had to begin all over again.

In the end it took me 5 months and cost me 58,000 baht just to end up where I was before my stuff was stolen. (In the middle of all this, the Labor Dept (attracted by all the fuss) decided to look more carefully at my employer - and checked every work permit he'd issued over the previous 25 years! They did this while my new work permit application was being considered - delaying it, and eventually causing my old WP to go over-date by just three days . . . just enough for someone to have a good laugh and force me to start all over again.

So there's all of that (just try buying a car that's registered in a different province - nothing is on a central computer and the paperwork is horrific and it takes about 4 months to complete) . . .

And then there's the fact that the cost of living in Thailand has increased across the board (except for gasoline, which is subsidised) by 100% in the last 10 years. (And personally I've had one 10% rise in that time - although that's beside the point.)

I'm now 68. I'd be happy to retire, but I can't afford now to live in Thailand on my UK pension alone, thanks to Brexit. And anyway Thailand needs 800,000 baht lodged in a Thai bank account if I want to retire here. (And then I've still got all the red-tape that goes with this . . . )

So I'm ready to sell up a whole house of tools and equipment and furniture, plus a car and two scooters, and reduce it all down to two suitcases - if only I can find a country with an easy immigration policy that's warm and cheaper than Thailand.

I can get a 4 year-stay in Mexico and it's half the cost of Thailand - but that's just a bit toooo far and a bitch of a plane-trip (4 flights and about 30 hours) . . .

The cost of living is not much different in Cambodia, even though the visas are a doddle . . .

Goa is really cheap and sunny but I can only realistically get 6 month's stay every year . . . and there's a 4-month heavy monsoon anyway . . .

So now I'm looking very closely at Vietnam, and it's looking better every day!

Zeus.wmo wrote:

Anton&Jacky wrote:

It has been a few years I have been to Thailand, and are planning to go back(Hopefully permanent). I have read a lot in the news this last year of expats leaving Thailand, the statistics of surveys done shows a lot of expats have left Thailand.
Any clarification on the above will be appreciated.
Thank you and enjoy your day!

There are so many reasons expats leave Thailand, just like they leave many other countries after living there for a while.
....................................................
And, the retirement visa may seen like a hassle, but go try most other countries and you will see Thailand is one of the easiest & least expensive places to get a long-stay visa (1,900 THB per year is hard to beat anywhere).
That's my 2 cents worth... Kindly, Zeus

1.900 baht for a long-stay visa?
It costs 1,900 baht merely to extend a 30-day visa and remain for another seven days!
A 6-month tourist visa is currently about 10,000 baht - and then you have to leave for 3 months.
What kind of "long-stay" visa are you talking about?

robsamui Today 15:40:54
1.900 baht for a long-stay visa?
It costs 1,900 baht merely to extend a 30-day visa and remain for another seven days!
A 6-month tourist visa is currently about 10,000 baht - and then you have to leave for 3 months.
What kind of "long-stay" visa are you talking about?

I am 61, retired and have been here a little over 2 1/2 years. I just renewed my extension-of-stay (retirement visa) for the second time and had no problems. The immigration fee for the 1 year extension-of-stay is 1,900 THB. You have to be able to qualify by having a minimum monthly pension of 65,000 THB or a minimum of 800,000 in Thai bank account for 3 mths prior to renewing. You don't have to keep the 800k in bank the whole year. You can start spending it down after the renewal then 9 mths later, put the balance back up to 800k, 3 mths prior to next renewal. They just want to insure you have enough money to live on for that 1 year period. You can also use a combination of pension and bank account.

I find life here very easy, none of the red tape problems with work permits you refer to in your post, but again I am retired. I don't have a scooter or car, I live in a nice high-rise condo in Bangkok near Phrom Phong station and can walk, take a taxi or take the sky train wherever I want to go. Kindly...

Hi I am Florin,60
And how much cost  u on monthly bases?
Thx,

Ffdish17 wrote:

Hi I am Florin,60
And how much cost  u on monthly bases?
Thx,

Rents in Bangkok run anywhere from 5,000 THB for 1 room apartment in outlying area to 120,000 THB for a nice 3 Bedroom condo in upscale area or business district. It all depends on your budget.

I think it is safe to say Thailand does not want criminals, vagrants, and people who are only here because their own country doesn't particularly want them.  Who wants to be a dumping ground for disaffected and disgruntled people who have no desire to adapt to their new surroundings?

People leave for many reasons.  For some the novelty wears off, others run out of money, some came here because they were lonely and after finding a partner they fall into their old patterns and head home to rejoin the rat race.  Some leave only to find “home” is not what they remembered and come back again.  I have seen that several times.

I have lived here more than forty years and it has always been a transient place with foreigners coming and going with great regularity.  I got so used to this aspect of life in Thailand that it really doesn't register much with me.  As I have gotten older I do notice there seem to be more people coming here to die.  I put that down to Thailand being sold as a cheap place for financially struggling old people.

Ffdish17 wrote:

Hi I am Florin,60
And how much cost  u on monthly bases?
Thx,

accurate info here
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Bangkok

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/10 … aya-radio/

Anton&Jacky wrote:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061309-easy-ride-for-pensioners-in-thailand-now-over-says-pattaya-radio/

The change is by the British embassy for British citizens only at this time. If you can meet the requirements of 65k THB per month pension or 800k in bank account, it shouldn't be a problem. Thai immigration is probably just cracking down on the British embassy for giving out income letters without certifying that people really do have pensions.

thx

this is a good one, thx a lot

Sorry i insist, how do u get along with the health care, do u  pay insurance or pay as u h go ?
thx

Story about foreigner leaving Thailand is good "click bait" on the internet.

Story about foreigner moving to Thailand not so good "click bait".

The nearly 8 years i live in Thailand it be the same about, Ohhh foreigner leaving Thailand, So I think there is no reason to care about it.

I can understand IF more Thai disliking  foreigner, When i see how bad so many foreigner behave here in Thailand, Have no respekt for themselves,their GF / Wife, Talk down to Thai, The way the act, The way the dress and so on.

The bad behave from so many foreigner is all so the reason i stop being social with foreigner here in Thailand back in 2014, And only have social live with Thai now, And for me, That the best decision for me to do like this.

Kindly.

A final ps to this . . .

Ten years ago there were literally millions of Caucasians either coming to Thailand on a regular basis or actually living here.

In terms of income for Thailand, those many farangs who came here long term stayed for six months and spent freely, then returned home for the warm-weather months beginning in the Spring. to return again in the Autumn - repeat.

Those who came here to stay longer either had a pension and came to retire, or to set up a business, or simply to work - although many effectively dodged the work permit and did it on the fly (causing many of the problems we have today).

Four years ago the Chinese Govt lifted the national travel restrictions, causing a flood of one-week tourists which rapidly grew to a torrent.

The Thai administration - always impressed by simple numbers and with no insight into the economic infrastructure - jumped to embrace the many millions of Chinese visitors, falling over themselves to woo many more, and bestowing favourable visa terms and other enticements upon them, despite the fact that each of these visitors only spent a fraction of the Caucasian sector.

(Witness the hospitality sector, which is tearing its hair out because they now have 85% occupancy in the hotels/resorts all year round, but are making almost nothing from their restaurants and F&B operation.)

At the same time the govt perceived that Chinese daytrippers caused them no problems, but that the long-stayers were overstaying their visas, working without permits, finding loopholes to wriggle through and many more irritations.

So the simple solution was to cast a big net over everyone who wasn't a daytripper, regardless of whether they were legit or not - including farangs who worked here and/or owned businesses.

And that's the situation today.

I've always been on a budget but have personally put 6 million Thai baht into the economy just on everyday spending. I've paid another 2 million baht in rent over the years, 240,000 baht for visas, 72,000 for work permits, a further 300,000 for my electricity, and 101,000 baht for my internet. And now I'm leaving. I've had enough.

Total spent here = 8 million 713 thousand baht, not to mention the cost of buying and running (over the last 25 years) two used cars and 4 used motorbikes. And that's just little me, with only around 300,000 baht's worth of assets.

Can you even begin to imagine how much a 50-year old, having got divorced and sold his business and come here with a big bank-balance will be spending?

And now Thailand is hassling everyone who is not a tourist, giving them grief at border-run re-entries, making it more difficult to get a long tourist visa, limiting the types of visa and the length of stay at Consulates in neighbouring countries and extending this as a blanket approach to all farang-run businesses.

Just how much cash are they turning down - trillions of baht from millions of longstay farangs, in exchange for the billions of baht from the gigantic numbers of Chinese daytrippers who spend very little here. But then tourist numbers impress, never mind how much they spend!

Nuff said.

u r not fair my friend, there r people good or less everywhere. so let not generalize

kindly,

very smart, thx

Ffdish17 wrote:

u r not fair my friend, there r people good or less everywhere. so let not generalize

kindly,

What on earth have good or bad people got to do with how much money residents spend in Thailand? I marvel at your logic.

robsamui wrote:

Ffdish17 wrote:

u r not fair my friend, there r people good or less everywhere. so let not generalize

kindly,

What on earth have good or bad people got to do with how much money residents spend in Thailand? I marvel at your logic.

Sorry, the reply was for "never done that"
By the way, your dissertation is superb, and I think that Thailand, right now is fed up with caucasians , but they want their money.
As for China, is the biggest regional power and Chinese communities everywhere.Is normal they prefer Chinese tourists, is traditional,I know, is not fair looking at the spending.
Nothing to much to do, i have some Thai friends working abroad , and know how they think.
It was in my mind to retire in Thailand, but i think that would be better other places, like Panama, or back to Europe, will see, anyway will check Thailand  this winter,I just might do some snowbirding
Regards,

The topic being discussed is a completely subjective topic, based on one's personal feelings, tastes, or opinions (whether having lived here or having never lived or visited here, as I see by some commenting).

For me, having lived here for over 2 years, I have never felt like anyone in Thailand is "tired of expats". I'm sure there are some who are tired of the less-desirable expats that cause trouble, have no money, are here to party & drink beer and are here to loot, pillage & plunder the beautiful natural resources (like the ladies). But, everyone has been courteous & polite to me, even the taxi drivers (LOL). So, my personal feelings and opinions on the subject are "yes", some Thai people are tired of the less-desirable expats, but are very welcoming & happy to have the decent, respectful, more-desirable and non-trouble causing expats. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, so that is mine. Good luck to all...
Kindly...

Ffdish 17 - I have found the opposite to be true regarding the Chinese tourist being preferred to the western tourist (@ least in the Northern region. Those Thais that I talked to don't like Chinese tourist due to their disrespect of the Thai culture and belief (i.e. in Chiang Rai a chinese tourist urinating on the White Temple grounds, and the overall condescending attitude toward the Thai host.

themorn2112 wrote:

Ffdish 17 - I have found the opposite to be true regarding the Chinese tourist being preferred to the western tourist (@ least in the Northern region. Those Thais that I talked to don't like Chinese tourist due to their disrespect of the Thai culture and belief (i.e. in Chiang Rai a chinese tourist urinating on the White Temple grounds, and the overall condescending attitude toward the Thai host.

You've missed the point here completely!

It is the Thai government which is welcoming the Chinese with open arms - encouraging investment, making trade concessions, switching over the banks from the VISA standard to China Union Pay and rolling out the red carpet with express lines at the immigration gates.

The Thai people themselves don't like them much.

No clarification was made with the comment regarding who is welcoming the Chinese with open arms. It is easy to miss a point w/o clearly referring what party is welcoming the Chinese. i can offer a better comment if others would be a bit more specific in regard to who is the host. With that in mind, I can only hope that there will be a reckoning come election time if I read the people's animosity.

Distinguish between
Expat 1 - mobile middle and upper management career chasers
Expat 2 - longstay visitors  (whatever their reason)

This report is aimed at Expat 1, but the comments made by readers are revealing.
https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/10 … bc-survey/

What is pertinent is the observation at the end: it indicates the direction that unhappy Thai expats are taking!
"According to HSBC's 2018 Expat Explorer Survey, Thailand ranked in 21st place, down 6 places from its rankings in 2017.

While Thailand dropped in the rankings from 2017, other ASEAN nations saw their positions increase, with Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam all finishing higher in the 2018 survey."

Hello,
I think u misunderstood me, as was referring  to the official attitude , i traveled  a lot across the world, and have known a lot of Chinese people, and can be difficult to deal with them as a non Chinese person, dont want to comment on this, as is not the subject of this forum, but i can understand why people in general that r not in love with them.
But as i said before, depends, in this case is more about politics.
Regards,

this is exactly what i ment, thx

sorry to hear that

Zeus.wmo wrote:

The topic being discussed is a completely subjective topic, based on one's personal feelings, tastes, or opinions (whether having lived here or having never lived or visited here, as I see by some commenting).

For me, having lived here for over 2 years, I have never felt like anyone in Thailand is "tired of expats". I'm sure there are some who are tired of the less-desirable expats that cause trouble, have no money, are here to party & drink beer and are here to loot, pillage & plunder the beautiful natural resources (like the ladies). But, everyone has been courteous & polite to me, even the taxi drivers (LOL). So, my personal feelings and opinions on the subject are "yes", somin e Thai people are tired of the less-desirable expats, but are very welcoming & happy to have the decent, respectful, more-desirable and non-trouble causing expats. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, so that is mine. Good luck to all...
Kindly...

Hi Zeus,
please dont feel offended that some people think that  not everything is fine and dandy in Thailand, this forum was created for people can debate and get info.
I was just thinking that will be a hassle for me as a Canadian tourist(and spending serious funds) to come to Thai and after 4 weeks,finding myself in the middle of a trip somewhere,and have to give up everything in order to go and extend my visa so i can enjoy more, and spend more.
And this is pretty frustrating .
And also i think it is normal for me as a potential visitor to try to get all the info i can, so i can achieve a successful trip and also a good reconnaissance of a potential snow birding spot.
Kindly,

FfDish17

You said:

I was just thinking that will be a hassle for me as a Canadian tourist(and spending serious funds) to come to Thai and after 4 weeks,finding myself in the middle of a trip somewhere,and have to give up everything in order to go and extend my visa so i can enjoy more, and spend more.
And this is pretty frustrating .

You did have the option before you arrived to apply for a 60-90 day Visa. I have recently stayed in Thailand for more than 2 months, and did two border runs for extensions. I knew that I had to do that before I arrived. On the last extension, I was told that I would need to apply for a visa for future extensions.

Thailand has rules and regulations, like any other country. We can choose to abide by them, or go elsewhere. Some countries have 90 day automatic temporary visas on entry. That is not the case in Thailand.

Ffdish17 wrote:

Hi Zeus,
please dont feel offended that some people think that  not everything is fine and dandy in Thailand, this forum was created for people can debate and get info.
I was just thinking that will be a hassle for me as a Canadian tourist(and spending serious funds) to come to Thai and after 4 weeks,finding myself in the middle of a trip somewhere,and have to give up everything in order to go and extend my visa so i can enjoy more, and spend more.
And this is pretty frustrating .
And also i think it is normal for me as a potential visitor to try to get all the info i can, so i can achieve a successful trip and also a good reconnaissance of a potential snow birding spot.
Kindly,

Hi Ffdish17, no offense taken... the forum is for everyone to share and offer thoughts & opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And, in my opinion, some that are here and don't think everything is fine & dandy here are the same ones who don't have enough money to live here and shouldn't be here. I read that there are 2 types of people, those that are victims and blame everyone else for their misfortunes and those that take responsibility for their lives and don't blame anyone else for their mistakes & misfortunes.
If someone is not happy here, they are free to leave, no one is keeping them here. Regarding the topic "Thailand tired of expats", expats are foreigners who live here (not tourists who are visiting short-term). Yes, it would be nice to be able to stay longer than 30 days without having to go by immigration to get an extension, but that is the rule. If someone knows they want to stay longer than the 30-day visa-free entry, they should get the proper visa (a 60-day tourist visa) beforehand, get it extended in-country for 30 days, then do a land border run for another 30 days. After 120 days, you are not a tourist any longer and should apply for the correct long-stay visa. Some people try to get around the rules by continuously doing border runs, but they eventually get caught, then they have a real serious self-inflicted problem that they cry about afterwards and blame everyone else. There's no empathy here for anyone breaking the rules or for crybabies. So, enjoy your trip here as a tourist and if your true intentions are to stay long-term, then I hope you will pursue the correct long-stay visa and not be one of those who break the rules then cry about it afterwards when they get caught.
Best wishes, Zeus

villagefarang wrote:

I think it is safe to say Thailand does not want criminals, vagrants, and people who are only here because their own country doesn't particularly want them.  Who wants to be a dumping ground for disaffected and disgruntled people who have no desire to adapt to their new surroundings?

People leave for many reasons.  For some the novelty wears off, others run out of money, some came here because they were lonely and after finding a partner they fall into their old patterns and head home to rejoin the rat race.  Some leave only to find “home” is not what they remembered and come back again.  I have seen that several times.

I have lived here more than forty years and it has always been a transient place with foreigners coming and going with great regularity.  I got so used to this aspect of life in Thailand that it really doesn't register much with me.  As I have gotten older I do notice there seem to be more people coming here to die.  I put that down to Thailand being sold as a cheap place for financially struggling old people.

I see it the sme way as villagefarang's assessment. In addition ,there are the expats with corporations and NGO's coming and going. I have no idea of the exact number . I suspect that it's not huge . I believe several friends and close acquaintances  of mine  have been transferred to other countries over the last several years. Part of the transient nature of expat life for some.

Great reply, I have just turned  seventy, I am about to retire in CM I believe that I can accept the Thai way of life as everyone has different expectations people look at things through a different light

he most likely meant the retirement visa which is for one year.
And regarding the 800k on bank: this is only half true. if you get a pension which your embassy confirms and if this is lower than 800k, you need only the difference in the bank.
regarding work permit. well yes they want this university stuff, even it is useless after 10 or so year, maybe to brag how many graduated expats live here. did not have to show a criminal record though when i got the last permit in february. but maybe as teacher u need that.

So your saying if I receive the equivalent of 300,000 bath as a pension I only need to have 500,000 baht in the bank.

yes. that's how it is described.

Must meet ONE of the financial requirements

    Security deposit of THB 800,000 in a Thai Bank Account for 2 months prior to the visa application.
    Monthly income or pension of at least THB 65,000. An affidavit from the foreign embassy or consulate has to be obtained as proof of the income.
    Combination of the Thai bank account and yearly income with the total of 800,000 THB.

I've been living in Thailand since the mid 2000's. Everyone is warm here and never had such problems. Yes I had a few ups and downs but I'm not those guys who drink beer and causes trouble. There are so many expats who causes trouble here which I read, hear or see on a daily basis. That's where they feel unwelcome. I work and run businesses here and also a area manager plus director so I keep my self off that path. But sometimes getting things done here is a pain and dealing with can be a pain. Only thing is be on top of your game. Visa also a headache to do every year. But the thing Thailand does way better than the EU is the immigration and cracking down. I don't see anything on cracking down on immigrants in the EU.

I would like to add to my previous comment of this topic. 

Ones perspective will often be affected by length of time in Thailand.  Take exchange rates.  When I first arrived the US Dollar bought roughly 20 baht, that was raised to around 25 baht in 1984 I believe.  Fourteen or fifteen years later is went to more than 50 baht (56?) to the dollar.  Now we are at 32 something so whether you think things are up or down depends on which exchange rates you are comparing and your timespan.

Even when there were fewer of us here in Thailand, there was a lot of churn.  Most jobs were temporary placements and there were no retirees back then, except perhaps a few military guys who decided not to return home after the war.  Many of them ended up not staying for long.  Coups were frequent and that brought midnight curfews.  There was no English television,  no cell phones, or internet and a tax clearance was required to leave the country, even if you didn't work.  I was so happy when Anand got rid of the annoying tax clearance after a particularly nasty coup.

Thailand has struggled to cope with the massive influx of sex tourists and struggling financial migrants unable to afford life in their own countries.  As Thais are wont to do, they tried to ignore the problem, hoping it would go away but it only got worse.  Now they are finally trying to bring some sense of order and equity to the system.  Naturally they are focused on what is best for them and their future, it is their country after all.  First world expats down on their luck but still demanding “White Privilege”  from their Thai hosts have long ago worn-out their welcome in my opinion.

The condescension, whining and finger pointing has grown old.  Poor expats have long overvalued their importance in this world and particularly here in Thailand.  For the most part the expats I see leaving are people who arguably never should have been here in the first place.

villagefarang wrote:

I think it is safe to say Thailand does not want criminals, vagrants, and people who are only here because their own country doesn't particularly want them.  Who wants to be a dumping ground for disaffected and disgruntled people who have no desire to adapt to their new surroundings?

People leave for many reasons.  For some the novelty wears off, others run out of money, some came here because they were lonely and after finding a partner they fall into their old patterns and head home to rejoin the rat race.  Some leave only to find “home” is not what they remembered and come back again.  I have seen that several times.

I have lived here more than forty years and it has always been a transient place with foreigners coming and going with great regularity.  I got so used to this aspect of life in Thailand that it really doesn't register much with me.  As I have gotten older I do notice there seem to be more people coming here to die.  I put that down to Thailand being sold as a cheap place for financially struggling old people.