Dog Meat Trade in Vietnam

yes, it is true

sjpersonal wrote:

The reason that I joined this group was to learn more about Vietnam because I was really considering retiring there in a few years, specifically Hoi An.  I found out about the Murder of Innocent Dogs in Thailand for food, so that country was crossed off of my list of possible retirement location.  I was horrified to read on the net this morning that it is also going on in Vietnam.  I am praying that this is not true. 

Has anyone heard anything about this Horrific Practice going on in Vietnam?

Classic Vegan liberal minded diatribe.
The Oxford English Dictionary definition of the word murder is
murder
Line breaks: mur¦der
Pronunciation: /ˈməːdə    /
NOUN

The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another:
[Source:http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/murder]

And what is this word 'innocent'. If you've not know the animal or who killed it,who do you know it is innocent?

Your offence at this age old practice of eating dog meat is purely racial bias(Asian racial bias),i
ntolerance of other cultures and belief in your simplistic ideals of equality for all beings on Earth.

So, sjpersonal. DO you go to Indian websites and cry about the death of cows in Western countries?

Or DO you go to Muslim websites and scream about the Global enjoyment of Pork and other pig based meats?

Hmmm.

I am an "animal lover" myself, but not a fanatic about it. I am as opposed to mistreatment of animals and the illegal trade in animal parts as anyone. That said I am not, nor ever will be a vegan or vegetarian, yet strongly support the rights of those who so choose.

I have to wonder if a vegan would cross a potentially paradisical spot off their list of places to visit or to retire simply because people there slaughtered and ate cows, sheep, pigs, chickens, or whatever????

Those of us who come from what we so arrogantly like to call "First World" countries tend to forget that our homelands are relatively still infants in terms of world history. Why then is it that so many of us try to impose OUR moral standards, political will and personal values on cultures that are so very much older than ours and have developed in such a different way?

Forget Thailand and Vietnam (and probably some other countries too) if you can't accept the cultural differences. Cross Japan off your list, as I understand they have the nasty habit of putting live monkeys in a box that exposes the top of their skull, they lop off that part and eat the brain. God only knows what horrible customs are common in other countries? China has a taste for Bear Soup, some countries it's rat meat.

Looks to me like your short list is becoming much shorter as we speak. If other cultures revolt you so much it's generally wiser to stay home, where they just abuse animals, abandon them, neglect them and experiment on them instead of eating them. (none of which I condone either, but am all too aware of happening)


William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

Thank you 13ully for your reply and thank you for being civil. Have a great day 😊

wjwoodward wrote:

I am an "animal lover" myself, but not a fanatic about it. I am as opposed to mistreatment of animals and the illegal trade in animal parts as anyone. That said I am not, nor ever will be a vegan or vegetarian, yet strongly support the rights of those who so choose.

I have to wonder if a vegan would cross a potentially paradisical spot off their list of places to visit or to retire simply because people there slaughtered and ate cows, sheep, pigs, chickens, or whatever????

Those of us who come from what we so arrogantly like to call "First World" countries tend to forget that our homelands are relatively still infants in terms of world history. Why then is it that so many of us try to impose OUR moral standards, political will and personal values on cultures that are so very much older than ours and have developed in such a different way?

Forget Thailand and Vietnam (and probably some other countries too) if you can't accept the cultural differences. Cross Japan off your list, as I understand they have the nasty habit of putting live monkeys in a box that exposes the top of their skull, they lop off that part and eat the brain. God only knows what horrible customs are common in other countries? China has a taste for Bear Soup, some countries it's rat meat.

Looks to me like your short list is becoming much shorter as we speak. If other cultures revolt you so much it's generally wiser to stay home, where they just abuse animals, abandon them, neglect them and experiment on them instead of eating them. (none of which I condone either, but am all too aware of happening)


William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

And Expat.com is for those foreigners who are living in Vietnam or planning to live in Vietnam .
So this thread has no value.

WOW! it appears that my asking a "Question" offended several people, "Racist" really LOL!.  Although I do not owe either of you an explanation, the reason for my "Question" is because I am a dog lover and where ever I end up I plan to adopt several dogs and I do not wan to worry about them being stolen and sold for Meat!  Also since I plan to immerse myself in the local culture and eat local food, I do not want to have to worry about unknowingly eating Dog Meat.

But thank you so much William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team" for making it Clear to me that I am not  welcome on your Blog!

Dogs are BRED for EATING. They don't just grab any stray, or otherwise, and cart it away to chop it's head off.

These restaurants and markets have a reputation to maintain! And the Vietnamese and Thai's aren't the only ones - all down south America, too.

You will be OK in Arabia. they don't even like dogs.

wjwoodward wrote:

Cross Japan off your list, as I understand they have the nasty habit of putting live monkeys in a box that exposes the top of their skull, they lop off that part and eat the brain.

Actually, they scalp the monkeys long before the guests sit down as the monkey has to be bound up on leather straps under the table.

You can always tell a monkey brain table/restaurant as they don't use table clothes ... the blood can be distracting. The monkey is strung up with the straps that are located under the centre of the table. When the appropriate time comes the wait staff simply lift the circular cover from the centre of the table and lay a spoon alongside.

It is a regular delicacy in HongKong.

Do you know the Chinese actually eat fish whilst their chests heave seeking air? So simple you can make it at home!

sjpersonal wrote:

the reason for my "Question" is because I am a dog lover and where ever I end up I plan to adopt several dogs and I do not wan (sic) to worry about them being stolen and sold for Meat!

They won't steal bowser for eating ... maybe for a puppy mill.

sjpersonal wrote:

Also since I plan to immerse myself in the local culture and eat local food, I do not want to have to worry about unknowingly eating Dog Meat.

Dog meat is only eaten at certain times of the Lunar calendar each month. You will never unknowingly eat dog meat as they are sold in speciality restaurants, in specific regions and they cost much more than beef, even.

sjpersonal wrote:

But thank you so much William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team" for making it Clear to me that I am not  welcome on your Blog!

Never discovered what an 'expert' is - in my experience few citizens can even rate the title of 'expert' - but it does their ego good. And you are welcome any time, but don't expect to be molly-coddled.
Woof, woof.

sjpersonal wrote:

But thank you so much William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team" for making it Clear to me that I am not  welcome on your Blog!

Nobody here has said that you are not welcome on Expat-blog, because you most certainly are welcome.

In my message I simply questioned the logic of ANYONE who would try and impose their own cultural values on any other culture, especially one that is so much older than their own.

The entire concept of Expat-blog is to exchange information and opinions. I'm sure that you were well aware when you posted your first message to this thread that not everyone was going to share your opinion. Just as there are many back in the USA who don't.

From what I have seen so far, none of the replies to this topic have been offensive in any way, just opposing opinions, which every member has a right to express. If you did find any of the replies here offensive then I'd suggest that might be as a result of being rather thin skinned or overly sensitive to opposing opinions.

jimbream wrote:

And Expat.com is for those foreigners who are living in Vietnam or planning to live in Vietnam .
So this thread has no value.

Actually any member of Expat-blog is free to post to any national forum that he/she wishes to post to. There are absolutely no restrictions whatever. Perhaps you misunderstood something in Expat-blog's Terms & Conditions of Use?

Also since there aren't moderators and Expert Team members in sufficient quantity for all of the national forums we do tend to be active on a number of different forums, now you know how it works here.

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

I have to agree with the above post.
Expat.com is an open forum and as such anyone can read any section of the forum and post on it. There is no exclusivity regarding who posts where.
The idea of this forum is to share opinions,information and advice.

As for the subject matter I have eaten dog meat in Laos where I am based. If this offends people then so be it.

jimbream wrote:

And Expat.com is for those foreigners who are living in Vietnam or planning to live in Vietnam .
So this thread has no value.

Or people potentially moving to Vietnam, or just interested in a snapshot of life in Vietnam, or just interested in learning a little about foreign countries in general, with a little about Vietnam or, as in this case, interested in a social issue concerning Vietnam.

Nope - you're way wrong on that one.

That in no way suggests I agree with the OP's opinion, I do not.
I don't eat dog myself, but I have no problem or objection to other people that like the stuff.
Humans are omnivores, we eat rabbits and their food, so why not dogs if that's what floats your boat?

I, as with many others here, am an animal lover (but the police have never been able to prove it, their only evidence being the word of a few sheep farmers), so I dislike and object to cruel treatment of the livestock, but the the slaughter (not "murder" - that's a daft use of the word), and eating them.

Jaitch wrote:

Dogs are BRED for EATING. They don't just grab any stray, or otherwise, and cart it away to chop it's head off.

That happens on Bali.
I hope the OP isn't going to move there.

stumpy wrote:

As for the subject matter I have eaten dog meat in Laos where I am based. If this offends people then so be it.

Before I went all Muslim, I probably would have tried it.
Horse is rather nice.

sjpersonal
I am not an expat yet
Currently living in the USA, in Los Angeles
Want to move to Vietnam

There we go - totally valid reason to post.

Meat is meat. I was surprised how wonderful Mekong Rat tasted. My advice is to eat and enjoy and never question what it is. I have eaten and enjoyed dog, rat, horse, goat, lamb, pig, beef, snake, gator, rabbit....
I used to think my retirement would be eating prime rib and drinking a nice single malt. Now it is rat and 6000  dong beer.

ancientpathos wrote:

Meat is meat. I was surprised how wonderful Mekong Rat tasted. My advice is to eat and enjoy and never question what it is. I have eaten and enjoyed dog, rat, horse, goat, lamb, pig, beef, snake, gator, rabbit....
I used to think my retirement would be eating prime rib and drinking a nice single malt. Now it is rat and 6000  dong beer.

I agree with you wholeheartedly!

Like they say, "When in Rome do as the Romans do." Or at the very least don't criticize them for doing it, after all it's THEIR culture. If we can't handle another culture then maybe we're just not cut out to be an expat in the first place.

Jaitch wrote:

Dogs are BRED for EATING. They don't just grab any stray, or otherwise, and cart it away to chop it's head off.

That is not quite correct. They do mainly snatch dogs for the meat trade!

Everyone knows and even the news papers are reporting this (nearly on a daily basis!).

http://www.talkvietnam.com/2012/08/thre … l-vietnam/http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/20364/3-y … etnams-hubhttp://tuoitrenews.vn/society/18681/10- … s-to-death

snake77 wrote:

Jaitch wrote:

Dogs are BRED for EATING. They don't just grab any stray, or otherwise, and cart it away to chop it's head off.

That is not quite correct. They do mainly snatch dogs for the meat trade!

Everyone knows and even the news papers are reporting this (nearly on a daily basis!).

http://www.talkvietnam.com/2012/08/thre … l-vietnam/http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/20364/3-y … etnams-hubhttp://tuoitrenews.vn/society/18681/10- … s-to-death

It depends largely where you go, most reputable ones to breed dogs primarily for eating and others can offer people money for their unwanted or sickly dogs.

Eating dogs is the same as eating any other animals.

LaxFogo wrote:

snake77 wrote:

Jaitch wrote:

Dogs are BRED for EATING. They don't just grab any stray, or otherwise, and cart it away to chop it's head off.

That is not quite correct. They do mainly snatch dogs for the meat trade!

Everyone knows and even the news papers are reporting this (nearly on a daily basis!).

http://www.talkvietnam.com/2012/08/thre … l-vietnam/http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/20364/3-y … etnams-hubhttp://tuoitrenews.vn/society/18681/10- … s-to-death

It depends largely where you go, most reputable ones to breed dogs primarily for eating and others can offer people money for their unwanted or sickly dogs.

Eating dogs is the same as eating any other animals.

I agree, that is correct. However, lots of the dogs which get snatched are intended for sale to slaughterhouses, restaurants, dog meat traders etc. and quite often the restaurants don't even do the killing, they just buy from traders.

Here is a recent article/interview with two dog thieves giving quite some insight to this secret trade and business.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/specia … ieves.html

- Why do you do this job?

No. 1: I lost at gambling and I had to balance income and expenses for the family. I know this is illegal, but I was born inferior to others. I'm uneducated and do not have a stable job.

No. 2: This job brings money to us. Just do it a little bit at night and early morning, we have VND1 or VND2 million ($50-100) while working hard all day, we could earn only VND200,000 ($10).

- Several dog thieves were beaten to death by angry people, aren't you scared?

No. 1: I'm frightened. But if I do this job then I have to accept it.

- Why don't you get something else, not just dogs?

It is easy to catch dogs. In the countryside all households raise dogs. If we are arrested, the penalty is only probation for the first time.

- Have you ever been arrested?

Not yet!

- Have you ever been in a confrontation with someone?

No. 1: A few years ago this guy (pointing to No. 2) and I were almost caught once. We always take a knife with us. That time, probably locals lost many dogs so they lied in wait for us, so there were up to seven people holding sticks, knives, and swords chasing us.

I got a very painful blow on the shoulder. I fell down to the field but I was lucky to be able the stand up immediately. I waved the knife but did not hit anyone and we left our motorcycle there to run. That time we lost our motorcycle.

- In many cases the dog thieves were beaten to death. When you are in such a dangerous situation, can you kill the pursuers?

In a situation if we do not kill them, they will kill us, I will do anything to protect myself.

- So just because of a dog, you can kill a person?

No one wants that, but in a life-and-death situation, a man has to do everything that he has to do.

- Do you have dogs?

They both nod.

- If your dog were stolen, how would you feel?

Of course I would be angry, but if you can't protect your belongings, you have to accept losing it.

- So how many dogs have you caught so far?

No. 1: Many. Seven years equals 84 months, with at least 50 dogs a month, so it is more than 4,000 dogs.

- So many! How is this number compared with other people in the profession?

It depends. Some people quit this job forever after one to two years. Some return to this job after failing to do other jobs. Some work 20 nights a month. We go out at night very often.

- Everyone hates dog thieves. Do you know that?

No. 1: I know! They take care of their dogs for a long time and lose them. Anyone could be angry.

- Are you concerned about the ones who lose their dog? Maybe the dog is a pet?

No. 1: I do not care. At night the dogs go out for a pee, go shit, and we catch them. We do not need to know who is its master!

- The dog is in pain and it cries and moans. Do you feel pity for it?

No. 1: A little. Sometimes I hear them cry, I feel guilty. I knew that I did an illegal act, but I had to correct myself immediately. I have been doing this job for a long time, so I feel it normal. I have to accept it.

- Where do you sell the dogs?

This is a 'trade secret'. I should not say publicly, but I will tell.

The dogs I catch in Hanoi are sold in Ha Tay and those that are caught in Ha Tay are sold in Ha Nam.

- To whom?

For those who purchase dogs, dog slaughterhouses or dog meat restaurants. We know each other very well.

- Do you have any plans for the future?

We have discussed this issue. We are going to give up this job to find some stable work.

- Do you think that dog stealing is on the rise in Vietnam today?

There are fewer dogs than in the past. Vietnam is developing. The rural areas are becoming urban areas, towns are becoming cities. Most houses now have gates, so it is harder to catch dogs than before.

No. 2: Catching dogs is like going fishing. On lucky days we can catch five dogs, on normal days, one or two, and sometimes nothing.

- How can you compare it to go fishing? Stealing someone's dog makes them angry.

I mean the erratic feature like fishing. Iit is similar to  fishing in another way: if you go fishing to one place many times, you then have to move to a new place.

- Describe how you catch a dog?

No. 1: When seeing a dog, the driver must be very focused and approach the dog. I sit behind and will catch the dog with a stick with a brake wire at the top. The driver has to speed up. I will pull the dog for 5-7 meters until it is tired and then collect the wire to pull it to the motorcycle. Then I cover its mouth with tape, tie its four legs and put it into a sack.

Everything must happen fast, without any sound.

- When was the last time you caught a dog?

Last night.

- How many dogs did you catch last night?

Last night we caught three dogs. They are small so we had only 50 kilos of meat.

- Thank you for talking so openly. I hope that you both will find a good job in the future!

People in every culture experience the emotion of disgust, and it is often associated with consumption of meat. It's human nature.

I am aware of the fact that meat is meat, and I am not against consuming dog meat in general, but personally I would never try a dog, or cat, or rat, no thank you. Call me hypocrite, but the idea of eating dog/cat/rat meat makes me sick. Maybe, it's a matter of psychology since I was brought up in culture where dog/cat/rat meat is not consumed. But, I am not a meat lover, the only meat I eat is fish, and chicken sometimes.

Hi

I tend to think that every country has had this problem, not only in Vietnam or Thailand. I'm Vietnamese and I hate anyone eating dog meat. It's also a matter of psychology that the dog is very close to our family and it has emotion.

Each region in Vietnam has its different culture, eating dog meat is popular in the north of Vietnam. Choosing other region if you want to live in Vietnam.

Fairie

I have never seen dog meat in Thailand, but people say that it's consumed at the north of the country.

You will not find dog meat in Pattaya. 
It is consumed in the north and north east.

stumpy wrote:

You will not find dog meat in Pattaya. 
It is consumed in the north and north east.

But you will be able to find a wide assortment of bugs, scorpians and spiders...

ancientpathos wrote:

stumpy wrote:

You will not find dog meat in Pattaya. 
It is consumed in the north and north east.

But you will be able to find a wide assortment of bugs, scorpians and spiders...

And they are all tasty to eat.... 

ancientpathos wrote:

stumpy wrote:

You will not find dog meat in Pattaya. 
It is consumed in the north and north east.

But you will be able to find a wide assortment of bugs, scorpians and spiders...

.... and ladyboys

ancientpathos wrote:

stumpy wrote:

You will not find dog meat in Pattaya. 
It is consumed in the north and north east.

But you will be able to find a wide assortment of bugs, scorpians and spiders...

Thanks, but no bugs/scorpions/spiders for me

sunshine_bg wrote:

ancientpathos wrote:

stumpy wrote:

You will not find dog meat in Pattaya. 
It is consumed in the north and north east.

But you will be able to find a wide assortment of bugs, scorpians and spiders...

Thanks, but no bugs/scorpions/spiders for me

He's serious.
Many people eat a wide variety of creepy crawlies.

http://cookingclass.com.vn/updates/the- … sects.html



http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/societ … etnam.html

ancientpathos wrote:

stumpy wrote:

You will not find dog meat in Pattaya. 
It is consumed in the north and north east.

But you will be able to find a wide assortment of bugs, scorpians and spiders...

LOL!  Thank you  So far I have eaten Chocolate Covered Ants Curried Grasshoppers.  I am open to trying most foods as that is part of experiencing other cultures.  But there are somethings that I will never touch or eat at restaurants that sell them.

mas fred wrote:

sunshine_bg wrote:

ancientpathos wrote:

But you will be able to find a wide assortment of bugs, scorpians and spiders...

Thanks, but no bugs/scorpions/spiders for me

He's serious.
Many people eat a wide variety of creepy crawlies.

http://cookingclass.com.vn/updates/the- … sects.html

http://cookingclass.com.vn/public/image … d_1006.jpg

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/societ … etnam.html

http://img.cdn2.vietnamnet.vn/Images/en … 3905-1.jpg

Ok, those Do Not look at all appetizing to me LOL!  I have tried fried Slug at least I think they were Slugs.  Fried is the only way that I could have eaten them.

Sorry that your question prompted a few intemperate responses.  It was a perfectly reasonable question and expressing your reason for wanting to know to, was acceptable and provided some context.  According to newspaper reports, most of the dog consumed in Vietnam is imported from Thailand where dogs are bred for the dog meat trade. Most of the Vietnamese who I've talked to in the HCM area say dog meat is more common in the north of the country than in the south.  It is certainly not unknown in the south and a good Vietnamese friend of mine had a small pet dog that was very important to her snatched out of her hands in a park here in the city a few years ago. I've worked and lived in plenty of countries and cultures over my lifetime and don't feel at all bad about wanting or not wanting to eat anything for any reason I like. I view it as impolite and in all likelihood totally useless to belittle or berate others over their food choices and would appreciate being treated with the the same tolerance I display to others. This has been particularly useful to me since I've married into 3 cultures quite different from my own.   
Speaking with my wife she says that while it is possible to buy dog meat in HCM you have to go to a special shop as it's not carried at the regular wet markets.  Also, she says she's never been in a regular restaurant where dog was on the menu either here on in her home province which is south west of here.

RayG wrote:

Sorry that your question prompted a few intemperate responses.  It was a perfectly reasonable question and expressing your reason for wanting to know to, was acceptable and provided some context.  According to newspaper reports, most of the dog consumed in Vietnam is imported from Thailand where dogs are bred for the dog meat trade. Most of the Vietnamese who I've talked to in the HCM area say dog meat is more common in the north of the country than in the south.  It is certainly not unknown in the south and a good Vietnamese friend of mine had a small pet dog that was very important to her snatched out of her hands in a park here in the city a few years ago. I've worked and lived in plenty of countries and cultures over my lifetime and don't feel at all bad about wanting or not wanting to eat anything for any reason I like. I view it as impolite and in all likelihood totally useless to belittle or berate others over their food choices and would appreciate being treated with the the same tolerance I display to others. This has been particularly useful to me since I've married into 3 cultures quite different from my own.   
Speaking with my wife she says that while it is possible to buy dog meat in HCM you have to go to a special shop as it's not carried at the regular wet markets.  Also, she says she's never been in a regular restaurant where dog was on the menu either here on in her home province which is south west of here.

Thank ypu for the information tha you provided,  That was all I was looking for information.

RayG wrote:

Speaking with my wife she says that while it is possible to buy dog meat in HCM you have to go to a special shop as it's not carried at the regular wet markets.  Also, she says she's never been in a regular restaurant where dog was on the menu either here on in her home province which is south west of here.

If you go to HAM NGHI  and walk down TON THAT DAM market you will find dog meat at a couple of the butcher counters, on the right-hand side about 40-50 metres in, most days.

They are generally displayed on the hook and have the appearance of a small adult pig, except they are less bulky around the stomach.

Dog meats are not rare, but not so cheap that they will sell it to you under the guise of other meats. it's pretty pricey.

Protip: Dog meat smell is stronger than other meat. So it's not easy to get confused about it.

And bias against dog killing? I would say it's a first world problem, but then I know plenty of my friend dont like it on a moral/personal bias. I dont like its smell, and its taste, not that I object to dog meat.

And what's the heck? How do you like Indians go to your face to complain about cow being fatten and butchered in job lots? I promise you, the dog butchering sites are small and mostly manual, unlike the industrial butcher facility for cow/bull/steer in Western nations.

laclongquan_travel wrote:

I promise you, the dog butchering sites are small and mostly manual, unlike the industrial butcher facility for cow/bull/steer in Western nations.

Duong Noi Village, just outside Ha Noi, is a dog meat centre.

Killing is very manual, just a swift swish of a large type jungle knife and it's off to dog heaven. It's obvious they don't feel much, although waiting might make them anxious.

It's got to be as humane as electrocuting fish in fish farms, or electrically stunning chickens. Let's face it, killing is not a nice business.

I live on Phu Quoc island and haven't seen dog meat for sale here, but I expect it's available if you knew who to ask.

When passing through hcmc, I stay very near the airport and dogmeat is openly butchered, cooked, displayed and eaten in several small restaurants in that area.

Anyone who thinks thousands of dogs aren't stolen every year for meat is beyond naïve, I'm afraid you're stupid!

???   you ( we)  will arab for the oil , eat pork and cow ,,,,,  and you are worry because "people eating innocent dog ?"    Did  the Caw have the some right of dog or not ?