Cost of .living in sao paulo

Hi and welcome on board Kathir!

Maybe you could tell us more about the position.
When is your move scheduled?

Regards
Armand

Hello Armand. Thanks for your response.
Project Manager for an IT firm in SP. Move is scheduled in Jan2012

Thanks
Kathir

Hi Kathir,
I am from sao paulo.
Yes, with this amout you can allocated yourself in a good area(safe). But honestly it is not an amazing amount for 4 people, even worse is the fact that your kids gotta get into good schools to stay in the safe said of life, which cost $$$$ it s difficult to foresee it, as i dont know your living standards.
I would recommend boroughs near by Avenida Paulista (south side), like Vila Mariana and that area around it. But not Bela vista
In these areas still have some public decent schools for free.

if you have benefits and insurance are enought, but IT professionals can win between 10k to 15 k

contact headhunters...example FIT rh

kathiravanuma wrote:

Hello, I am moving to Sao Paulo. My monthly net salary is R$ 8368. Is it a good salary in Sao paulo? How much i could able to save if i relocate to SP with my family(spouse+2kids).

Please let me know

Thanks
Kathir

Sim você pode viver bem em São Paulo

@brittanica: In English please.

Thanks
Armand

Dear kathir
Hi Kathir

I am Indian , Staying here last 6months . As per my experience R$8000 not sufficient for decent life with family.Please go through the below details which was described by one of the expertise


Renting an apartment in a decent neighborhood near the city center is on the top of the list. An unfurnished one bedroom apartment will cost upwards of R$1000 per month, plus condominium fees (where applicable) which can be almost equal to the rent in some cases. In most cases you will also have to pay the property taxes and rental insurance too. Rental contracts are fixed by law at 30 months, nothing less.

Only furnished apartments come with appliances and they are outrageously expensive, so you will most likely need to buy appliances. Refrigerators here range from the lowest price of around R$900 upwards to over R$2000 depending on the features you want. Washing machines are about the same and clothes dryers are almost unheard of here in Brazil. A basic 4 burner gas range/oven with automatic ignition will cost about R$500 and the more burners or features the price only goes up from there. Air conditioners are about R$1000 if you want one of those. Electric heaters (central heating is non-existant here) depending on the size are also expensive.

A trip to the supermarket can be frightening, prices are constantly rising on everything. A single person should budget about R$500 a month at minimum perhaps more if you like to eat a lot. Depending on where you go eating out can range from very inexpensive to expensive. Small "self-serve" restaurants offer ready made dishes from about R$6 and up. You can usually get a good meal at one of them (by weight) for about R$15. Good restaurants can charge about R$30 or more for a decent meal.

Utilities in São Paulo are also expensive. Electricity for a single person who uses lots of lighting and a computer will probably run around R$120 per month, water R$30, For a TV/internet/telephone basic plan you can count on paying at least R$175 per month without any extras and not counting long distance phone charges. Since many apartments do not have piped gas you will also have to pay for CNG to be delivered. The tank costs about R$90 the first time, then each further delivery they exchange it with a full tank and this costs about R$45. If you cook a lot or use the oven frequently it will generally last a single person only 3 months.

Unless you REALLY need a car and plan on doing a great deal of driving every day you should forget about buying a car here in Brazil, they are just to expensive when you factor in all the additional expenses. Popular compact cars here (manual transmission) and no options start around R$23000 and go up from there. The larger cars run from R$50000 and up. Insurance is super-expensive and the list of things that it DOESN'T cover is frightening. Taxes paid every year like IPVA, DPVAT are horrible too, then there is fuel which depends on the system your car has, alcohol for "flex" cars is around R$1,25 a liter,  regular gasoline around R2,20, diesel R$1,90 and natural gas is  around R$1,50. Add to that high maintenance costs, tires, etc.

Then too the bureaucracy involved in either having your (home country) drivers licence translated and accepted here or getting a Brazilian licence is absurd. If you come from Canada/USA/Mexico/Central or South America you can get a Inter-Americas Drivers Permit (IADP) which will allow you to drive here for 1 year with a valid drivers licence from home. An International Drivers Permit (IDP) is NOT valid in Brazil since  it is not one of the signatory countries.

If your company doesn't provide you with a car and driver when needed you will probably save money in the long run by taking taxis when you really need one rather than buy a car.
If you go by bus or metro then cheap!

abhilash

Hello,

I have opportunities to come to work in Sao Paulo this year and would be receiving an average annual salary of R109,000, is it decent? How much of this would represent the budget for rent?

Also, how many vacation days do we get, on average?

Thanks for your answer!

Hi Lena,

A salary of R$109.000,00 a year is quite good. You will do well here. Read my post "The High Cost of Living in São Paulo - how to economize" it will answer most of your questions. Also my other posts at the top of the page "A Gringo's Survival Guide for Brazil" and "Food & Drink in Brazil - Avoiding Problems" will give you most of the information you will need to know about life here.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog.
(another Canuck in Brazil LOL)

Im a brazilian (living in Florida now) and I 100% agree with asa1976! Living in Sao Paulo is expensive. 8000 reais is not enough for a family of 4.

Hi Abhilash,


We need info about renting car in Sao Paulo for 1 month (Driver + Car)for testing purpose.

Kindly help for the same

Thanks & Regards,
Mary S

Hi Barbiebarbie and asa1976,

Truth is that the vast majority of families in São Paulo seem to manage quite well on lots less than R$8 thousand and don't earn nearly that much with both husband and wife working full-time. I lived for many years in São Paulo and have a wife and a small son and would have been overjoyed to earn half that much each month. I didn't live a life of luxury, but certainly didn't lack for anything either. My priority is to enjoy my life and time with my family, not work myself into an early grave simply for the almighty buck. I'm super happy living on considerably much less, my wife is a stay-at-home mom by mutual decision and I'd not trade my time spent with them for any amount of money.

Your statement is based ONLY on your own personal value set. Most people would be quite happy here and a family of 4 can live quite well on R$7 - 8 thousand per month and even manage to save money. That is why most firms start with that figure, their salaries are really a true reflection of the standard of living.

If you had a higher standard of living back home I'm happy for you. Unfortunately many expats are unable to accept that one's standard of living is not something that is portable. We do not carry it from country to country like a suitcase.

Asa1976, you quote my figures but take them out of context. Doing this you do a great disservice to other expats who would think about coming to this great country. The figures are correct, but you neglect to include that there are ways to economize and still live well, even in São Paulo.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

[Moderated: ]

Hi there!
I'm freaking out here! We live in Los Angeles, and my husband has to job proposals;
1) São Paulo - 7K a month (reais)
2) Sacramento - 70k (U.S. dollars)

Soooooo... We have 2 kids, so I'm aware that in order for them to go to a good school is gonna be between 1500-2k in Brazil.... while obviously in Sacramento we will have access to great education for free.
I have no contact with family here, while my husband has his whole entire family in Brazil which is a big pro. My kids really long on relatives love. And I could use some help for dates too... I love all of the btw, so no in laws issues here whatsoever...
We're really inclined to accept the job offer in BraZil... But after reading so many bad things about it, we're having sarcoma thoughts about it...
It's gonna be quite lonely in Sacramento since we know NOBODY up there... So that's gonna be quite tough, since we have a great circle of close life long friends in L.A. ...
Is it really that bad back in Brazil??? Too dangerous??? People get murdered in roberies often?
Is that salary in Brazil enough for us to live a decent life? With travelings, and so on...??????
Pls help!!!!
Thanks for your time in advance!!!!

Well R$84K is not bad if that's going to be his take home pay and the company will include a housing allowance and an annual trip back to the USA for vacation. If not I'd say you should opt for the offer in Sacramento. Which, by the way, amounts to R$210K or almost 3 times as much, just by virtue of the exchange rate.

São Paulo IS NOT going to be a lot cheaper a city to live in that justifies that kind of salary difference, and as such you're certainly not going to be able to put much aside for savings. You're going to be looking at spending at least R$2000 per month for rent on an apartment PLUS condominimum fees or around the same for a decent (but rather smallish) house. Your kids educational costs at a private school are going to be around R$1000 per month each, that alone will eat up almost R$5K per month. See what I mean???

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

Adrianala28,
I believe that the lifestyle you are going to have in Sacramento is better than the one you are going to have in Sao Paulo city with this figure. Things in Sao Paulo are expensive and considering a single income it's not going to be good enough for a family.

Public services in Brazil are not good at all. You would need to worry about private health insurance and private education. Check with your husband's company if the offer adds up some of these benefits. It's usual to have a health insurance provided by multinational companies to their employees in Brazil.

If you can find a job to help your husband, things could be better, however if you don't know Portuguese, I would say that finding a descent job is not going to be easy. There are multinational companies here that requires English speaking people, but you would need to speak Portuguese to get around. It's really rare to see someone in a company in Brazil just speaking English.

Each lifestyle needs are different but I will talk about mine. I live with my fiancee in Sao Paulo and we share an apartment of 50 sqm around ~30minutes away from CBD. It's a nice middle class apartment. We both work and we have a successful career and it provides us comfortable lifestyle considering that we don't have kids.

It allow us to save a bit but we don't have a lavish life style. We still live in a small apartment and drive popular cars (not BMWs or Mercedes).

Our home running costs to live comfortably are at least R$6.000,00/month:
- rent + body corporate (Condominio) + land tax (IPTU): 3400;
- groceries: around R$2000;
- bills: 300 (water: 50, gas: 50, internet with no cable TV: 80, electricity:120)
- 1x week cleaner: 400

+ at least R$2.000 for leisure like theater and going out for dinner or buying that pizza + wine for the weekend. A dinner for 2 people in Sao Paulo in a good restaurant can easily cost around R$100 per person (entree, main dish, desert and 1 glass of wine). If you go out at least once a week with your partner it's around R$800 just in restaurants.

I am not considering other costs like trasnport, clothes, car and gym membership which can add up a lot:
- Gym: 200/month/person
- Public Transport: 200/month/person
- Car: average of 500/month. Obviously it depends on the car type. A brand new popular car with air conditioning and hydraulic direction (yes, in Brazil they sell cars without these items) cost at least R$40.000,00 and requires 10%-15% of its value in yearly running costs like insurance, tax, mechanic and gas (a liter of gas in Brazil is R$3/liter or R$12/galon).

In my opinion, having friends and family here are not going to overcompensate the financial aspect. But the decision should be yours.

Good luck with your decision.

Hello Allison Godoi,

Thank you for your very frank and detailed description of your lifestyle situation. I'm sure that it's going to be much clearer now for Adriana to understand just what she has to look forward to if they move to São Paulo. Your breakdown of household expenses really drives home the point quite well.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team

Txs so much for the last reply... it was quite of a reality check, indeed.
Even though our salary is gonna be lower in Sacramento it looks like it goes a long way compared to the salary in São Paulo.
I was really unaware how expensive everything is over there!
Last time I went was on vacation almost 3 years ago, and we didn't pay much attention at all, hence we were spending in dollars, everything sounded reasonable priced to us...
Specially that we're gonna be living in a community "resort" style for less than 2K a month only!!!
And we don't pay ANY "impostos" for the owner, that's his to pay. Condominio is already included in the lease.
With all that being said, my heart is still is Brazil, near family...
Anyways, I'm Brazilian, and I do have an accent when speaking English...
Before I became a stay-at-home mom, I used to work in a company as an event planner, so basically, useless experience for the Brazilian market, I know... Hehehe
Would be that hard for me to find a decent job?
We've got school covered for the kids already, btw. So I'm thinking if I get to make like 2K would be enough for us to live ok...???? Like a good car, with AC, comfortable housing, eating and going out on weekends, and vacations????

Actually no, event planners are quite common here in Brazil and as far as I know they make a decent living at it. If you're Brazilian and speak Portuguese you should be able to fit back into that profession here without too much difficulty.

Sometimes in life we can't just look at the dollar signs. There are lifestyle issues, emotions, family issues, and just the natural beauty, history and culture of this country that must also be weighed in the balance too. Money is great, we all need it, but I've found out in my over 13 years here in Brazil there are some things more important.

I used to have lots of money (lost it all through a bad marriage here in Brazil) now I live on a small Canadian pension that gives me just around R$1200 per month, and I suppliment that by teaching. I'm just making it, but manage to support my new wife and our beautiful son who will be 8 next month. What I have here now is worth more than all the money in the world. It's not an easy country to live in, but despite all its problems I'm never going to leave here.

Don't just cross it off your list yet.... do the math, crunch the numbers yes, but also look at all the other reasons (for and against) then follow your heart, not just your wallet. Sometimes the happiness and satisfaction we get out of something is worth lots more than the money.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Adrinala,

   If your heart is in Brazil, I believe you can make it with this income. Just bear in mind that the first years are going to be different from what you used to have in USA. Remember, you are moving from a first world class country to a third world  one and life here can be though but I assure: it is full of happiness and love.

   Principal and Main Advice:
- Plan your finances properly and don't run over the budget here! NEVER! Seriously: Interest rates in Brazil are outrageous and it's a place for savers and not spenders.
FYI:
      - Car loan: 25% per year.
      - Mortgage: 11% per year.
      - Credit Card: 300% per year. That's right!! 3 followed by two 0. Never have one if you don't know how to manage.
      - Special Check: 120% per year.

- Consider some money to buy a car. Having a family in Sao Paulo without a car can be hard. With R$20.000,00 you can find a good second hand car to buy and start with. For more information, look at webmotors.com.br. Again, avoid loans as much as you can! If you have some savings in USA bring it. Exchange rate is rocking at your favour right now.

- About your hub income. Do the calculations with the net salary. I will consider that 8k is the net salary so you will be fine with this money to start with, considering:
- House/Apartment rent: 2000
- Groceries for family: 2500 (4 members in the family)
- Utilities: 500 (phone, tv, cellphone, gas, electricity)
- Car Monthly Expenses: 700 (400 for gas using it to go to work and 300 for other expenses)
- Clothes: 500/month. Advice: buy them in USA before coming because the ones you will get here are not good quality ones for the same price you pay in USA.
- School for kids: included in the company package
- Health Insurance: included in the company package
- Public transport for kids: 200/month

I believe you can keep your fixed costs running around R$6000. Try always to give 20% of it as a buffer so even if it needs to go up to R$7200 you will be fine. Remember: interest rates here are high so avoid as much as you can overspending.

Sao Paulo city is a place where it's hard to find a couple where the wife doesn't work. If you can count with your family to help taking care of your kids, consider finding a job. I believe you can earn around 2k easily. Babysitters here are not expensive so if you need extra help it should be considered.

This topic I posted quite some time ago will also help anyone on a budget here in Brazil. While it was written with São Paulo in mind it applys anywhere here:

High cost of living in SP and how to economize

Cheers,
James

You both are sooooo amazing! Your words made me feel way better, kinda warm and cosy inside (not in a creepy way hehehe).
Yes, we do have a stable quality of life here, that according to family is for rich people back in Brazil.

But I'm killing for a internal piece that ever longing for a while... Friendships can be quite superfluous, basically for the so called "play dates" or dinner parties... Everyone's who's lived in America knows that...

My husband goes under a lot of pressure for his woke and he works very long hours, indeed. Hence, I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I'm always there for my kids.
I'm aware thats a luxury that I won't have over there now, after all the info you have provided me.

Now, something that really scares me, violence/crime. I'd never forgive myself if something happened to either my kids or my husband.
I've read pretty scary stuff on the news.
Any insights?
Txs sooooo much!!!

Don't get me wrong, I love this country with all my heart. But last time we went on vacation my son just loved it and it seemed to me people that even though people have much less somehow that are much happier than most of us here...

Well, I'm sure you're aware that the media in the US is quite sensationalist to say the very least. Making shocking events and crime indecies appear even more shocking than they really are is in their best interest --- IT SELLS.

Well you can multiply that by a factor of about 10 here, and then add to the mix a very curious tendency of Brazilians to hate other cities with a passion, it seems at times like a giant competition between them to run down the other cities in every possible way. The media here has capitalized on that too and they love to fan the flames. So to anyone in Rio, everything that's evil is summed up as being São Paulo. To Paulistas, Rio is synonymous with all that's evil too.

I've lived in São Paulo for several years in the past (and in 4 other Brazilian cities over my 13+ years here) so I can tell you that it's not all as bad as the media makes it out to be. Is it a dangerous city, yes most definitely; but then again isn't L.A? Or New York, or my beloved Vancouver? Of course they are, the secret is how you deal with that and "manage" the risk. My posting A Gingo's Survival Guide to Brazil is a must read. It starts out with the common-sense safety tips that you should use anywhere in the world. Follow them religiously and you'll be in no more danger than at home, I'm sure. The topic also contains most of the other information you're going to need to know about life in and living in this country.

In Brazil the real violent crimes are mostly those committed between the criminal elements of society themselves. Crimes against expats are generally speaking property crimes and most of those crimes of opportunity. We do things, often without thinking, that leaves us open to becoming victims of crime. If we use our heads and don't do the obviously dumb stuff, we rob the would-be criminal elements of the opportunity and we don't make ourselves targets and victims. Don't mess with people, don't hang out with seedy characters, don't give somebody the finger while you're driving down the Marginal Tietê, etc., and you cut down the risks substantially, as you would anywhere in the world. I know, I've lived in places in this country that many expats wouldn't dream of walking into. I follow all my rules to the letter and have never had any problems in all that time. I have been in most of the neighborhoods in São Paulo and the surrounding areas, used public transportation exclusively and done so at most hours day and night. So I know my tips work. I don't give a damn what happens in the rest of the city here in Macaé, nor down at the far end of the street I live on, or on the next block over... that doesn't involve me. What I care about is that it doesn't happen to me and my family. The tips help make sure that is how it stays! That's the attitude you need to adopt to make a successful transition to living in this country.

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team

Thanks again for all of your support and information!!!!