Clear TT-TRC instructions?

I hate to ask this because it should be and may be completely obvious and I am just missing it but is there an updated link or something to very clear and detailed step by step instructions on how to get your TT-TRC for the first time? Like typical of things in vietnam googling for hours and finding a bunch of pages from visa agents and talking to multiple agents just confuses the crap out of me and everything is so contradictory. Everyone says something different about where it can be done and what we need. I see from some previous post on this forum that agents and lawyers are no longer allowed to be involved and sounds like this is something we have to do ourselves. Thats also contradictory to what agents are saying. Here is the post. Id prefer to just work with an agent and save time but if its not possible anymore then oh well. https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1031624
I also want to confirm that the this all has to be done in my wifes home town (Dak Mil) and cannot be done where we live in Ho Chi Minh city. Of course agents are saying no problem we dont need to worry about it but Im finding info online and this forum that says otherwise.
-@jrharvey

Hi jrharvey.

I've no practical experience in this matter, but I'm hoping the following link will be of assistance to you.

Go to the gov't of VN webpage, here. (Link)

Select the first panel, titled "Thân nhân trong nước bảo lãnh" ("Guaranteed by relatives in the country)",here.

Translation of that page, here, as (at least for me) the Union Jack button at top-right is not functional.

Google Dich translate;

Guaranteed by relatives in the country

Vietnamese citizens permanently residing in the country may sponsor their grandfather, grandmother, father, mother of husband or wife; wife, husband, children, brothers and sisters are foreigners who come to Vietnam to visit.

Foreigners with permanent residence cards can sponsor their grandfathers, grandmothers, fathers, mothers, wives, husbands and children to visit Vietnam.

Foreigners with temporary residence cards may sponsor their grandfathers, grandmothers, fathers, mothers, wives, husbands and children to visit Vietnam; may sponsor their spouse and children under 18 years old to stay with them during the duration of their temporary residence card if the agency or organization that invites or guarantees such person agrees.

To sponsor a relative who is a foreigner to enter Vietnam, please follow these steps:

Step 1: Enter the information of the petition for foreign relatives entering Vietnam (according to Form NA3) and receive the electronic file code.

Step 2: Print the guarantee application, get confirmation from the competent agency or organization.

Step 3: Submit the guarantee application (with confirmation) with a copy of the guarantor's identity card/passport/permanent residence card/temporary residence card and a copy of the document proving the relationship as prescribed at the Department of State. Immigration management.

Step 4: Look up the results of settlement of guarantee documents by electronic file number here:

   Edit the application file and reprint the application (if not yet submitted)

   Keep track of the results of the processing of records

Step 5: Receive the answer at the Immigration Department according to the receipt.

• Confirm that you have carefully read the instructions and prepared all the documents

Hope the information in those pages is pertinent (and that I'm not leading you down the wrong path).

I'm told by a local that the VN instructions are straightforward/less confusing than the English Google translation.

I believe this can all be done in HCMC, provided your wife has registered her place of residence as HCMC (family book residence changed)

Please let us know how this progresses for you.

I hate to ask this because it should be and may be completely obvious and I am just missing it but is there an updated link or something to very clear and detailed step by step instructions on how to get your TT-TRC for the first time? Like typical of things in vietnam googling for hours and finding a bunch of pages from visa agents and talking to multiple agents just confuses the crap out of me and everything is so contradictory. Everyone says something different about where it can be done and what we need. I see from some previous post on this forum that agents and lawyers are no longer allowed to be involved and sounds like this is something we have to do ourselves. Thats also contradictory to what agents are saying. Here is the post. Id prefer to just work with an agent and save time but if its not possible anymore then oh well. https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1031624
I also want to confirm that the this all has to be done in my wifes home town (Dak Mil) and cannot be done where we live in Ho Chi Minh city. Of course agents are saying no problem we dont need to worry about it but Im finding info online and this forum that says otherwise.
-@jrharvey

Before I give you a detailed response that confirms the illegality of agents getting involved and the necessity of starting the process in your wife's hometown (or registered permanent address in Vietnam) followed by submitting your application in either Ho Chi Minh City or Hanoi (depending upon your wife's permanent residence), I'm not convinced you are qualified to receive a TRC.

You must keep in mind that it's actually your wife who applies to sponsor you on a TRC and she continues to be the sponsor as long as you hold the TRC.

Based on a previous post you made, it's unclear whether your wife has any sort of permanent residency status in Vietnam.

You wrote:

"...My wife is VN and US citizen..."

Unless your wife is established as or can be re-established as a permanent resident of Vietnam, then the best you are going to be able to get is the 5-year VEC.

Ultimately, the proof of her permanent residency is obtained through the police in her hometown or town of registered permanent residence.

Anything else is putting the cart before the horse.

She (not you) first needs to get a government form NA7 filled out and certified by the police there.

WARNING: This is a direct download link for the form in Word .doc format from the government website:

https://xuatnhapcanh.gov.vn/sites/default/files/NA7.doc

Only after that is done can SHE then apply to SPONSOR your TRC at the appropriate provincial city (Hà Nội or HCMC) based on her permanent residence address.

For that application, she submits government form NA8 (also a direct download link)

https://xuatnhapcanh.gov.vn/sites/default/files/NA8.doc

With a Vietnamese marriage certificate (which is included in your dossier, along with certified copies of her ID and your passport) you normally take the ORIGINAL marriage certificate to the city where you were married and submit that for copying and official notarization.

If you were married in a foreign country, you'll need to bring a fully apostilled & notarized copy of your marriage license, with certification dates within the previous 6 months PRIOR to the date that she actually submits your packet at the appropriate provincial city.

Any documents with certifications older than 6 months are routinely rejected.

Of course it would be wonderful if you do qualify for the TRC, but you really have to get her to focus on defining or establishing her permanent residency here in Vietnam.

Good luck!

Based on a previous post you made, it's unclear whether your wife has any sort of permanent residency status in Vietnam.

You wrote:

"...My wife is VN and US citizen..."

Unless your wife is established as or can be re-established as a permanent resident of Vietnam, then the best you are going to be able to get is the 5-year VEC.


-@OceanBeach92107

Thank you for your detailed response. To answer your question YES she is a Vietnam citizen. She was born and raised here plus her family still lives here. Since we met and got married after she moved to America she also became a US citizen. She has dual citizenship. We had some issues where her family wrote her out of the family book because they thought it would be easier to do their business but she is now back in it again. She also just now recieved her updated ID card finally. That was the biggest hassle I have ever seen which is why I am dreading the TRC. We got pushed and pulled around by the police here being told one thing, then another, then another again all while getting yelled at for not having the ID we were actively trying to get. I dont know how many tens of millions in corruption money we had to pay to even get them to do it. Im sure it will be the same with the TRC but hopefully it goes smoother.

Based on a previous post you made, it's unclear whether your wife has any sort of permanent residency status in Vietnam.

You wrote:

"...My wife is VN and US citizen..."

Unless your wife is established as or can be re-established as a permanent resident of Vietnam, then the best you are going to be able to get is the 5-year VEC.


-@OceanBeach92107

Thank you for your detailed response. To answer your question YES she is a Vietnam citizen. She was born and raised here plus her family still lives here. Since we met and got married after she moved to America she also became a US citizen. She has dual citizenship. We had some issues where her family wrote her out of the family book because they thought it would be easier to do their business but she is now back in it again. She also just now recieved her updated ID card finally. That was the biggest hassle I have ever seen which is why I am dreading the TRC. We got pushed and pulled around by the police here being told one thing, then another, then another again all while getting yelled at for not having the ID we were actively trying to get. I dont know how many tens of millions in corruption money we had to pay to even get them to do it. Im sure it will be the same with the TRC but hopefully it goes smoother.
-@jrharvey

Awesome!

I remember that thread about being written out of the FB.

That ID is the key and should make the rest of this relatively simple except for the necessary travel.

Since Đắk Mil is in Đắk Nông Province, the provincial city for your application will be determined by which one (HCMC or Hà Nội) "owns" Đắk Nông.

Based on geography, It would be easy to assume that to be HCMC, but apparently the system isn't that logical.

Anyway, someone can probably call or visit Đắk Nông immigration and find out if a new spousal TRC needs to be submitted in Hà Nội or HCMC.

For the Form NA7 application in Đắk Mil, it's advisable to already have your TRC application Form NA8 completely filled out.

Reason: As with SO many things here, you will be asked WHY you want the Form NA7 certified.

It probably won't be good enough to simply say it's for your TRC dossier.

My personal experience in Quảng Ngãi was that they wanted to make sure we were properly filling out the Form NA8 application before they would take the "risk" of providing the NA7 certification.

"Risk" meaning, they didn't want to do anything that might be unnecessary...

Also, it occurs to me that your VEC "might" be proof enough for your marital status, but unless you find that to be true, you'll probably need to provide your marriage document as I previously mentioned.

Another tip is to have the Vietnam Foreign Service office in HCMC or Hà Nội officially translate any foreign documents, including your passport & the marriage document.

So this is your list:

1. Form NA7 (done in Đắk Mil)

2. Form NA8 (submitted in HCMC or Hà Nội)

3. Copy of Marriage document fully notarized (apostilled if from a foreign country) and translated, or "possibly" your VEC**

4. Copy of her ID notarized in Đắk Mil

5. Copy of your passport translated & notarized.

Double check on the form NA8, as I recall it actually tells you what to submit with it (I'm too lazy now to translate it)

** I say that the VEC "might" be proof enough of marital status since the government/consulate/embassy has already accepted certification that you are the spouse.

Good luck!

Based on a previous post you made, it's unclear whether your wife has any sort of permanent residency status in Vietnam.

You wrote:

"...My wife is VN and US citizen..."

Unless your wife is established as or can be re-established as a permanent resident of Vietnam, then the best you are going to be able to get is the 5-year VEC.


-@OceanBeach92107

Thank you for your detailed response. To answer your question YES she is a Vietnam citizen. She was born and raised here plus her family still lives here. Since we met and got married after she moved to America she also became a US citizen. She has dual citizenship. We had some issues where her family wrote her out of the family book because they thought it would be easier to do their business but she is now back in it again. She also just now recieved her updated ID card finally. That was the biggest hassle I have ever seen which is why I am dreading the TRC. We got pushed and pulled around by the police here being told one thing, then another, then another again all while getting yelled at for not having the ID we were actively trying to get. I dont know how many tens of millions in corruption money we had to pay to even get them to do it. Im sure it will be the same with the TRC but hopefully it goes smoother.
-@jrharvey

Being your wife is a resident with ID now she needs to go to Immigration in HCMC and do the application. Everything is is Vietnamese and the immigration people can answer all her questions. Other that signatures your participation is not required. We paid no coffee money and everything is quite straightforward at immigration. Police report is the hardest form to get but a week or so depending on where you're living.

Which visa are you currently on? If on evisa in HCMC they will issue you a 6 month TT visa then a month before that ends your wife will submit the form for the TRC. About 5-10 days later it will be issued.

@OceanBeach92107

Thank you very much for all that. Super clear and helpful.

Hello, since you said your wife recently has her *NEW* Vietnamese Citizen ID, her passport it's not needed and that entitle you to get a TT visa at the Immigration Office in HCMC. Just you need 3 pictures for passport; a clear notarized copy of your entire passport (all pages), of your marriage certificate and of your wife's citizen ID. Also you will need an original certificate of your residence by the Police Office (yours and your wife's).

No need to translate your passport because it's already an international-global-worldwide-public accepted document. BEWARE: To notarize your documents: the copies must be b&w, duplex and as clearly as your originals (every single stamp in your passport must be as clearly as is in your original passport),

This process requieres two steps: First your VISA must be swapped into type TT (3 to 12 months) and normally you will need 1 hour to complete the aplication, leave your passport with them and return back on next week to receive your passport and then restart all this paper work again for your TRC (36 months). All these processes is with your wife always beside you.

In my personal experience (December 2022) I had to do all of these in my wife's home town (travelling 14 hours from HCMC) because she didn't updated her citizen ID; and to avoid to go and back twice, I asked for my TT Visa for 12 months, so, I need to go again for this second wave    .... and yes! you can get a job with your TT Visa + Marriage Certificate .... and yes! you can live forever in Vietnam with your TT Visa without crossing the border (just renew it at Immigration office yearly)  So why do you need your TRC? yes! if you want to get a loan from banks, to convalidate your USA driving license, etc for periods up to 3 years.

At the same Immigration Office you can ask for the respective form application and fill it out there.

Good luck.

@ajairon Luckily I already have the TT Visa Exemption (5 year) so should be good. We have all our paperwork and copies/translation ready. Going to the police station today so hopefully all goes well. Im a little worried since this is such a small town out in the middle of nowhere they will have no clue how to do any of this. I guess we will see. The main reason I want a TRC is to #1 open an actual useful bank account, #2 buy something and actually have my name on it and #3 have a drivers license that last longer than 6 months.

@OceanBeach92107

We just got back from the Dak Mil police station and I will say we got about as lucky as we could. The officer happened to be my wifes middle school best friend who also attended our wedding so she was super friendly. Like expected nobody there had any clue about the NA7 or NA8 and they have never had to do this before in this small town. She had to call the immigration office to get instructions on what to do. All of our paperwork was good except the guy on the phone kept asking for my visa. We kept telling the officers that my visa is that light blue book (the 5 year VEC). Image below of what I have. They kept saying no they need the VISA. We kept showing them that this was my Visa. They said I needed a piece of paper about 8.5x11 that had my entry stamp on it. I am assuming they were talking about the E-Visa but who knows. I told them I do not have that because my VEC allows me entry. Either way they told me if I dont have a Visa I need to fill out form NA-5 application for visa and have that approved and come back. Luckily the officer who is also my wifes friend said just bring in the completed form and she will sign everything. The officers are asking me if they need to sign both NA7 and NA8 or just the NA7? They have never done this before so they dont know.

@OceanBeach92107
We just got back from the Dak Mil police station and I will say we got about as lucky as we could. The officer happened to be my wifes middle school best friend who also attended our wedding so she was super friendly. Like expected nobody there had any clue about the NA7 or NA8 and they have never had to do this before in this small town. She had to call the immigration office to get instructions on what to do. All of our paperwork was good except the guy on the phone kept asking for my visa. We kept telling the officers that my visa is that light blue book (the 5 year VEC). Image below of what I have. They kept saying no they need the VISA. We kept showing them that this was my Visa. They said I needed a piece of paper about 8.5x11 that had my entry stamp on it. I am assuming they were talking about the E-Visa but who knows. I told them I do not have that because my VEC allows me entry. Either way they told me if I dont have a Visa I need to fill out form NA-5 application for visa and have that approved and come back. Luckily the officer who is also my wifes friend said just bring in the completed form and she will sign everything. The officers are asking me if they need to sign both NA7 and NA8 or just the NA7? They have never done this before so they dont know.


-@jrharvey

In Quảng Ngãi, we brought along our own copy of Form NA7 (and form NA8) because we had learned in Vũng Tàu that local police don't always have those forms printed out.

As for the "visa" request, they likely need to see both your VEC and the latest entry stamp in your passport.

If they cannot understand that you are in country using a Visa exemption which was approved at the immigration checkpoint when you last entered the country, I'm not sure what else you can do to convince them that it's sufficient documentation.

(See my note below regarding the "TT" number for form NA7)

I found the website link, and it seems that the most important information is your most recent entry date into Vietnam:

https://xuatnhapcanh.gov.vn/en/tin-tuc/procedures-temporary-residence-cards-foreigners-vietnam-immigration-department-ministry

This is the essential info required for Form NA8 (the information sheet you submit at HCMC/HANOI immigration:

(Copied directly from document with their translations):

~~~~~

1- Họ tên (chữ in hoa):.................................................................................................................     Full name (in capital letters)

I printed my name exactly as it appears in my passport; last, first, middle. That's exactly how my name appears on my TRC

2- Giới tính:   Nam     Nữ      3-Sinh ngày.........tháng.......năm..........

Sex                   Male      Female   

Date of birth (Day, Month, Year)

4- Quốc tịch gốc: ...................................

5- Quốc tịch hiện nay:.........................

Nationality at birth    Current nationality

6- Nghề nghiệp/chức vụ: .....................................

Occupation/ position

7- Hộ chiếu số.........................................    Loại: Phổ thông       Công vụ       Ngoại giao

Passport Number    Type: Ordinary    Official    Diplomatic

    Cơ quan cấp:…………………………….....................    có giá trị đến ngày…../…/……

Issuing authority                                                                   Expiry date (Day, Month, Year)

8-  Địa chỉ cư trú, nơi làm việc ở nước ngoài trước khi nhập cảnh Việt Nam

Your residential and business address before coming to Viet Nam

    - Địa chỉ cư trú Residential address: ..................................................................................    - Nơi làm việc Business address..............................................................................................

9- Nhập cảnh Việt Nam ngày:......./....../........     qua cửa khẩu: …........................

Date of the latest entry into Viet Nam (Day, Month, Year)    via entry port

    Mục đích nhập cảnh: (3) ........................................................................................................

Purpose of entry

(put "Family visit")

10- Được phép tạm trú đến ngày: ......../........../................   

Permitted to remain until (Day, Month, Year)

(this is the date stamped in your passport OR VEC when you last entered the country)

    - Địa chỉ tạm trú tại Việt Nam: ............................................................................................

Temporary residential address in Viet Nam (You MUST list your WIFE'S PERMANENT address there)

    - Điện thoại liên hệ/Email: ....................................................................................................

Contact telephone number/Email

(this can be your wife's)

11- Nội dung đề nghị Requests:

    - Cấp thẻ tạm trú có giá trị đến ngày........./............/...........

To issue a Temporary Resident Card valid until (Day, Month, Year)

(YOU list the expiration date, 3 years out from the application date: If you apply on the first of a month, you list the last day of the previous month: IE: Apply on 1 Sep 2023, list expiration date as 31 Aug 2026)

    - Lý do Reason(s): (4) ....................................................................................

...........................

(FAMILY - Live with wife)

~~~~~

THIS is a Google Translation of Form NA7 which they (police) certify. They don't do anything to Form NA8, but they may request that it be "attached" to form NA7

Everything filled in on this form must be in Tiếng Việt

~~~~~

Form (Form) NA7

Issued together with Circular No. 04 /2015/TT-BCA

5th month  01 year  2015

SOCIALIST REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM

Independence - Freedom - Happiness

GUARANTEE FOR TEMPORARY RESIDENCE CARD

(Note: This is your wife's application to sponsor you)

To:…………..(1)

I. Guarantor: (your wife)

1- Full name: …………………….  .................................  ..............................

2- Gender:   Male      Female              3- Born on .......month.......................................

4- Permanent address (according to household registration book): .....................  ..............................

- Address of temporary residence (if any) .....................................................................  .................................  ..........

(she can leave this blank or enter your current actual address)

- Contact phone/Email: .....................  .................................  ......

5- Identity card/passport No. .................................................................  ................................

(

6- Occupation: ................. Current place of work: .........  ..........................

II.  Guaranteed person: (you)

No (translation of "Số TT")

This May be why they are asking for a visa number. Explain to them that a 5-year Visa Exemption Certificate falls under the "TT" immigration category.

Full name (capital)

Sex

Date of birth

Nationality

Passport No

Relationship (2)

(husband)

III.  Guarantee content:

1- Guarantee for relatives mentioned in Section II to be granted temporary residence card according to the application form for temporary residence card (attached).

(this refers to Form NA8)

2- I (police) hereby certify that the above contents are true.

Confirmation (3)

(Signature, full name, position, stamp)

Worked at ………… on ……month…………..

Guarantor (signature, full name)

(Your wife. You don't sign form NA7)

FOOTNOTES:

(1) The Immigration Department or the Immigration Department of the Police Department of the province or city where you permanently reside.

(Your wife's permanent address)

(2) Specify the relationship with the guarantor (husband)

(3) The Chief/Police of the ward or commune where the guarantor permanently resides shall certify the contents in Section I.

ADDED:

I forgot to mention the 2 photos required in HANOI.

As you can see on the form, they are NOT passport size (2" x 2"/51mm x 51mm)

The correct photo size is smaller and in a different shape:

2cm wide by 3 cm high (20mm x 30mm).

Also, we attached the photos to the outside of my passport with masking tape, and the clerk in HANOI took one and glued it onto the information sheet Form NA8. Your police might insist you attach one now.

I did give HANOI a copy of my passport ID page along with the passport. It wasn't translated (I had to do that for my marriage).

They kept the passport and returned it to my wife along with the approved TRC.

I read the comment about copying your entire passport.

I'm guessing that's either something HCMC requires or perhaps they do that for people who need to hang onto their passport.

We decided to stay in HANOI for the week of waiting, so I didn't need my passport for anything (we were already checked into our hotel) so I never asked to keep it.

Also, I think I previously said it takes seven business days but it was actually seven calendar days.

Here are the added notes from form NA8

Ghi chú Notes:

(1) Mỗi người khai 01 bản kèm hộ chiếu và công văn bảo lãnh của cơ quan, tổ chức hoặc đơn bảo lãnh của thân nhân; nộp trực tiếp tại cơ quan quản lý xuất nhập cảnh, cơ quan có thẩm quyền của Bộ Ngoại Giao (đối với người thuộc diện cấp thẻ tạm trú ký hiệu NG3).

Submit in person one completed application form enclosed with passport and the sponsoring application by the hosting organisation/ family relative at the Immigration Office or at the competent authority of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (for those who are eligible for the Temporary Resident Card categorised as NG3)

(2) Kèm 02 ảnh mới chụp, cỡ 2x3cm, phông nền trắng, mặt nhìn thẳng, đầu để trần, không đeo kính mầu (01 ảnh dán vào tờ khai và 01 ảnh để rời)

Enclose 02 recently-taken photos in 2x3 cm size, with white background, front view, bare head without sunglasses (one photo on the form and the other separate).

(3) Ghi rõ vào làm việc gì ở Việt Nam hoặc thăm người thân.

Specify business purpose in Vietnam or family visit purpose.

(4) Ghi rõ lý do: làm việc, lao động, đầu tư, học tập hoặc thăm người thân và kèm theo giấy tờ chứng minh

Specify the reasons whether it is business, labour, investment, study or  family visit and enclose supporting documents.

(Your proof of marriage)

Hopefully this helps you.

🙏

Well @jrharvey, it was almost what I told you in my previous post: Fist you need your homestay registration by  the Police Department and with that certificate, pictures 2x3 cm and your notarized documents you must go to the Immigration Office (NA5) to obtain your TT Visa... After that the NA7 and NA8 (your *PERSONALLY* request for TRC and application to TRC) is the second wave. In fact let's forget about form codes, at the Immigration their will give you the right ones, it's practically to write your personal profile like in Facebook.

Sometimes people confuse what is a VEC, which is only a permission to enter Vietnam and stay only up to 6 months per run; practically a little more than a tourist visa but it is not a VISA. Remember: you want to ask for a Residence Card, of course you will need something to guarantee to this country you want to have a life/contributions/taxes here.

Finally, I'm curious: What translations you have?  Passports no need to be translated. Was your wedding in USA or VN?????   if it was in USA, can you confirm to us your USA-Marriage-Cert and all your foreing papers have already this requisites:  Notarized copy by USA-Notary, Legalized By USA Foreing Affairs Dptm. (*LEGALIZED*, not "Apostilled") , stamped by the Vietnamese Embassy/Consul (red label A5 sized pasted behind your USA Legalization paper), then translated and notarized by VN-Notary.    If any of your foreign (except Passpport) documents doesn't have all those stamps, your dossier MUST be rejected.

Just in case, regarding passports, that must be a notarized copy by a Vietnamese Notary because you are here in Vietnam, but in never is required to be translated

Good luck

One or more of a few things must be true:

1. HCMC is much more complicated than HANOI

2. A non-US citizen is giving WRONG information about how a US marriage license is certified for use in Vietnam:

a. there must be local certification/notarization at the county level and

b. APOSTILLE by the Secretary of State of the state in which the county is located.

After that, you can choose to submit that dossier to the consulate or embassy of Vietnam in the US for translation, legalization and use in Vietnam through the Vietnam Foreign Service

or

Bring the notarized/apostilled document to the US Consulate or Embassy in Vietnam on an appointment for notarization.

There you will fill in a blank template stating the name of the document and declaring it to be a genuine, true document.

Then you take that notarization (with the signature of the US Foreign Service officer who witnessed your declaration) to an office of the Vietnam Foreign Service, where their foreign service officer will have your documents translated AND will declare the signature of the US Foreign Service officer to be genuine in their own notarization of the dossier.

3. Maybe things are done differently in Ecuador.

4. Before we got married & applied for my TRC, we did get my Vũng Tàu landlord to provide a signed copy of my legal registration in the book she maintains for, and is certified by, the local police.

We then took that to the local Vũng Tàu police and had them certify a form which declared my temporary residence in Vũng Tàu.

We then took that form to Quảng Ngãi for our marriage (Aug 16th) and to both Quảng Ngãi & Hanoi for my TRC application.

NOBODY needed any declaration of my temporary address (or "homestay") in Quảng Ngãi or HANOI.

When Form NA8 asks for the foreigners address it MUST be the spouse's permanent legal address (that's according to HANOI Immigration)

5. Some information being provided by some people is only totally applicable to foreigners whose spouses have PERMANENT residency in HCMC.

Everyone else needs to START the process in the permanent residence town of their spouse.

6. My wife reminds me that in Hanoi, we submitted a local Quảng Ngãi committee notarized copy of her Home Book (SỔ HỘ KHẨU) even though she already had her new ID, which we also copied.

The clerk in HANOI double checked that ID card copy against her card, which she was allowed to retain.

7. It never hurts to get any and all copies of documents notarized.

8. IN HANOI, consistent with the law passed in December 2019, you can be on a tourist visa or VEC when you apply for a spousal TRC, without needing to exit the country or get a TT visa first

It seems that HCMC is setting their own standards.

9. Fill in the blank _____

The officers are asking me if they need to sign both NA7 and NA8 or just the NA7? They have never done this before so they dont know.
-@jrharvey

Sorry I missed this earlier.

The local police only sign the application, Form NA7

They can ask you to complete the information form NA8 and attach it to Form NA7, but there isn't anything for them to sign on Form NA8.

That gets signed by the accepting officer in Hanoi or HCMC.

Hope all is going well for you in Đăk Mil.

We drove through that area on our way from Mộc Bài to Quảng Ngãi last August, 2022.

Some amazing vistas there.

IF THIGV is following:

Remember when the law was changed in 2019 (effective July 2020)?

I seem to recall that many of us were celebrating the fact that a person could switch (while in country) to a TRC from a tourist or other type of visa without having to leave and reenter the country.

Wasn't it you who noticed that the VEC wasn't mentioned?

That has me wondering if a person on a VEC does need to first get a TT visa before applying for a TRC...???

I wonder if SuperSleuth Aidan can find that change in the law, posted in the forum or online?

The best explanation I can find is on the Vietnam-Visa site we often refer to, and it doesn't specifically mention changing visa status while here on a 5-Year VEC or other visa exempt status:

1.3. The third change is about change of visa status without leaving the country for eligible foreigners.

Currently, if a visa holder needs to change his/her visa to another type/category, he/she needs to leave Vietnam and enter again under the new visa.  This policy has been relaxed under the new law and a visa purpose can be changed without the need to exit Vietnam in the following cases

Being an investor or a representative of a foreign organization investing in Vietnam;

Being a parent, spouse, or child of the guarantor;

Being invited or guaranteed to enter Vietnam for employment and granted a work permit or work permit exemption;

Entering Vietnam under an e-visa and then being granted a work permit or work permit exemption.

So, with this change, more foreigners will be able to change their visa status without leaving Vietnam, making it easier to transition to long-term visa status.

@OceanBeach92107

Wow thank you for the insanely detailed responses. I was able to get everything signed/stamped at the police station after I submitted the NA-5 form and they also added the NA-17 for us to fill out. The NA-17 my wife had to do. They hapily stamped the NA-7, NA-5 and NA-17 and we went on our way. I guess now the next step is going to HCMC with all our documents. I am still confused about the VEC not being a Visa and whatnot but as long as I can get it done thats what matters. I thought maybe they were confused and just never seen the VEC but who knows. They did see the entry stamp. Yes it is beautiful out here. Air is much fresher as well. Would be a good place to do a motorbike tour if it wasnt for the trucks flying at dangerously high speeds around hairpin turns haha.

I am still confused about the VEC not being a Visa and whatnot
-@jrharvey

No confusion. It's not a visa. The VEC is a Visa EXEMPTION certificate, meaning it is completely a non-visa because you are able to enter VISA EXEMPT. Just a form that says you don't need a visa to enter.

@OceanBeach92107 hello, I accept maybe I made a mistake whit the local name of your foreign affairs department in USA. You must know rules for acepting Personal Identifications (passports, visas, international driver license) and any valued docs Legalized or Apostillde, are under the Vienna Convention and Hague Conference for Member's Local Laws. Thus, in USA, Ecuador, Vietnam or Vaticano this paperwork, legally, has no differences.

Regarding APOSTILLE, could be great you illuminate us informing since when Vietnam is legally accepting apostilled docs  without "asking for favors o confusing" to the receptor officer.

Are we talking the same Consular Stamp (see my picture?

Legally, to get this stamp, your *legalized* paper: no translations are requierd in advanced. Translations can be done at any place while can be notarized by VN Notary

Wow just visited the immigration office in HCMC (254 Đ. Nguyễn Trãi in district 1) and what a total disaster. It was so crowded you could barely move and my wife and I had no idea where to go. She went around to everyone that worked there asking what to do and the typical shoo away and I dont know. One window said we needed an appointment letter but no clue how to get. After spending an hour or so we got frustrated and ready to leave and one of the green shirt guys asked what we needed and my wife explained the situtation. After being told to go to window 17 we got in that line. There was no sign or anything about TRC's just a small sign about tourist visa. The whole line was agents getting Visa's and TRC's for people. Got up to the window asked for my packet and right away he said I needed to apply for a visa first and that the VEC was not accepted. I told him I had the NA5 form in there for application for marriage visa and he said I needed to get that first and come back but wouldnt say how or where to get that. I would have thought it was the same place but I guess not. He looked through everything else and looked at my notorized and translated marriage certificate and he said I needed to get that translated and certified before coming back.

@ajairon This must be what you were talking about with the marriage certificate. The guy at the window would not say where, how or what to do with it. He just kept saying get it translated and certified. I pointed to the marriage certificate and said this is already translated and notorized and he said no come back with it translated and certified. I guess I am not sure exactly where to go and what to do with the marriage certificate. You mentioned.....

Notarized copy by USA-Notary, Legalized By USA Foreing Affairs Dptm. (*LEGALIZED*, not "Apostilled") , stamped by the Vietnamese Embassy/Consul (red label A5 sized pasted behind your USA Legalization paper), then translated and notarized by VN-Notary.

Where exactly is the US foreign affairs department? Im not finding anything in Vietnam called this. Googling takes me straight to the US. And then the Vietnam Embassy? Is this all stuff that needs to happen in the US before coming to Vietnam?

@OceanBeach92107 While we were waiting in line my wife was speaking to one of the agents that said yes they do TRC's all the time and she was doing some right now. I totally believe what you said about it being illegal I am just curious what the heck is going on there. Is it possible HCMC rules are different than Hanoi or there is something else going on?

@jrharvey

make appointment with the US embassy. They will explain everything and stamp what needs to be stamped and then give you the address of the Vietnam office where you take the papers.

US Notary was the only thing that was needed.

We did the process in HCMC this year. My wife did everything to get my TT visa while I was on evisa. Got a 6 month TT visa then applied for TRC a month before that expired. Received the TRC a week later.

The only helpful person at immigration was the security guard. The rest were combative instead of helpful. My wife knows how to deal with those issues and breezed thru… Police stamping was more difficult but my wife demanded to see the Chief of police after the person responsible was never there. Then stamped immediately.

When a foreigner becomes involved it makes the government workers feel uneasy. They are afraid of losing face. We don't have to be involved with any sponsored visa/TRC application.

What was said earlier about a VEC is true… it's not a visa so you will need to be on a visa to transition.

@jrharvey
make appointment with the US embassy. They will explain everything and stamp what needs to be stamped and then give you the address of the Vietnam office where you take the papers.
US Notary was the only thing that was needed.
We did the process in HCMC this year. My wife did everything to get my TT visa while I was on evisa. Got a 6 month TT visa then applied for TRC a month before that expired. Received the TRC a week later.
The only helpful person at immigration was the security guard. The rest were combative instead of helpful. My wife knows how to deal with those issues and breezed thru… Police stamping was more difficult but my wife demanded to see the Chief of police after the person responsible was never there. Then stamped immediately.
When a foreigner becomes involved it makes the government workers feel uneasy. They are afraid of losing face. We don't have to be involved with any sponsored visa/TRC application.
What was said earlier about a VEC is true… it's not a visa so you will need to be on a visa to transition.
-@pogiwayne

This may sound like a crazy suggestion to people, but I don't believe that the requirement is for a TT Visa, mostly because I was on a 30 day tourist visa when I got my TRC last September.

In my case, I did a Visa run to Mộc Bài

last August 27th (approximate date).

Then we drove to Quảng Ngãi and spent a day getting the form NA7 completed at the police station and notarizing copies of marriage certificate & family book at committee headquarters.

The next day we flew to Hanoi from Chu Lai (closest airport for Quảng Ngãi) and decided it was too late to try the afternoon line at immigration before the start of the long Vietnam National Day holiday weekend.

So we relaxed and I showed my wife the sights of the city I already knew.

The first work day after the weekend we arrived at immigration at 7:45 AM and got in the long line waiting.

We were out of there at about 9 AM.

One week later (after a trip to Ha Long Bay) we returned to immigration and it took my wife about 10 minutes to pick up the TRC and my passport.

It would seem that in accordance with the law change that I quoted much earlier in this thread, you simply need to be on a Visa, not necessarily a TT class Visa.

There is no rule that says that you can't do a Visa run and leave on a VEC and reenter on an evisa...

@pogiwayne

Well the embassy is not an option. Appointments are booked out until December 2024 and when I called the embassy they said there was nothing they could do since it's not an emergency. There must be another option. There is no way it's this difficult. At this rate I don't know how anyone here has a TRC. Is getting a Vietnam marriage certificate an option?

@pogiwayne
Well the embassy is not an option. Appointments are booked out until December 2024 and when I called the embassy they said there was nothing they could do since it's not an emergency. There must be another option. There is no way it's this difficult. At this rate I don't know how anyone here has a TRC. Is getting a Vietnam marriage certificate an option?
-@jrharvey

1. If you can afford it:

Fly to Hanoi after booking a notary appointment at the embassy.

MUCH shorter waiting time for an appointment there.

While there, you can also take everything requiring translation to the local office of the Vietnam Foreign Services.

Then you can return to HCMC & use that paperwork there.

2. (maybe better) Yes, you could apply for a Vietnam marriage certificate, with max waiting time 15 working days (normally 10 days under the law but they're allowed to take five extra days), so figure you will have it in 21 days/3 weeks, at the latest.

It sounds as if you already have most of the paperwork for that.

Then you wouldn't need to worry about your USA marriage license.

But that would require a trip back to her hometown.

...AND... as if there haven't been enough twists and turns in this thread (and in news about visas) there is an anecdotal story developing on F.book in Đà Nẵng (meaning, this is hardly better than a rumor but maybe something worth double checking):

A foreigner in Đà Nẵng is reporting that his wife (from Đà Nẵng) has traveled to Hà Nội to apply for the husband's TRC.

Someone at immigration there supposedly told her that since the 15th of August, the application can be made in Đà Nẵng.

Thoughts about that:

There are five thành phố trực thuộc trung ương - municipalities/central(ized) cities - in Việt Nam with governmental authority equal to the provinces (sometimes called "provincial cities")

Of those 5, Cần Thơ, Đà Nẵng & Hải Phòng are considered Class I, while Hà Nội and Hồ Chí Minh City ONLY are considered "special" Class.

Since TRC restrictions went into place, only Hà Nội and HCMC have been able to issue full, 3 year spousal TRCs.

TT visas of up to 1 year have been possible in Đà Nẵng (I'm not sure about Cần Thơ & Hải Phòng) while spousal TRC authority in the provinces has been suspended.

IF the report I've read is true, it doesn't change my initial advice to EVERYONE seeking a spousal TRC:

Have your wife FIRST check at immigration in the province (or provincial city) of her permanent registered address.

IF spousal TRC authority is being reactivated in the provinces, your wife will (should...) be able to determine that quickly without having to travel back home, if a family member can check at provincial immigration for her.

@jrharvey ok, let's clarify what you have and what you need.

1)  Now you don't have doubts that VEC is not a VISA   @OceanBeach92107 is right you can get a Tourist Visa, but not all Immigration Offices can issue it (he mentioned 5 cities).   Even you can get a Tourist Visa, I strongly recommend TT and pay for 1year (@pogiwayne recommended 6 month, but trust me, you want to open a bank account and whatever else you want asap)

In my case (November 2022) I got TT VISA in Phú Yên, it's supposed all provinces can issue

2) at counter #17 they mentioned your Marriage Certificate must be Certified.  That is a common "lost in traslation" because they meant the "Vietnamese Consular Legalization Stamp" (the red stamp I attached in my previous contrib ) (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ … 28C%29.jpg)

2) you mentioned your Marriage Certificate is already notarized and translated.  Notarized by who?  If your paper is not at least USA-Authorized/Legalized you will be stuck

@OceanBeach92107

Thank you for this response again. All of this has been extremely helpful and honestly couldnt do it without the help of this group. Apparently what I discovered is that agents basically take all the apointments available at the embassy and then resell them to people who need it for a fee I guess. Such a Vietnam thing to do haha. Joke of course but true. I guess its similar to buying concert tickets and some company buys up all the tickets and resells them for jacked up prices. Either way we were able to get an appointment for this coming Monday. Good to hear about Da Nang as well.

@ajairon Thank you for the response. So my marriage certificate is Notorized and signed by the register of deeds which is a government official in the US in my home city of Charlotte, North Carolina. It is my original authentic marriage certificate. Then when we were in Vietnam we had the official document translated into vietnamese and the translation notorized by one of these typical notory offices. It wasnt a government place. I didnt realize it needed to be offically stamped by a Vietnamese government office. So my current understanding is that I need to go to the US embassy and get this document certfied? Is that correct? And then apparently I have to take the US Embassy Certified copy to the "Department of Foreign Affairs Office" at 184bis Pasteur, P. Phú Thuận, Quận 1, Thành phố Hồ Chí Minh, Vietnam. Then once I have that go back to the immigration office and apply for a visa with my NA5 form and certfied marriage certificate.

@ajairon Thank you for the response. So my marriage certificate is Notorized and signed by the register of deeds which is a government official in the US in my home city of Charlotte, North Carolina. It is my original authentic marriage certificate. Then when we were in Vietnam we had the official document translated into vietnamese and the translation notorized by one of these typical notory offices. It wasnt a government place. I didnt realize it needed to be offically stamped by a Vietnamese government office. So my current understanding is that I need to go to the US embassy and get this document certfied? Is that correct? And then apparently I have to take the US Embassy Certified copy to the "Department of Foreign Affairs Office" at 184bis Pasteur, P. Phú Thuận, Quận 1, Thành phố Hồ Chí Minh, Vietnam. Then once I have that go back to the immigration office and apply for a visa with my NA5 form and certfied marriage certificate.
-@jrharvey

As helpful as he is attempting to be, the person you are replying to is not a US citizen (according to his profile)  and almost certainly has not had any experience in using documents from the United States in Vietnam.

The first thing that's important to know is that Vietnam is not a signatory to the Berne Convention of 5 October 1961 Abolishing the Requirement of Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents.

Because of this, the US State Department Foreign Service in Vietnam (Embassy & Consulate) is FORBIDDEN from certifying any documents originating in the United States, be it a marriage license, birth certificate, diploma, degree, employment record or other document (continue reading #2 below for what CAN be accomplished at the Embassy or Consulate).

Documents originating in the United States can only be authenticated and utilized in one of two ways:

1. Submit in the United States through the Vietnam Foreign Services (Embassy or Consulate).

They will require that your document be:

A. Officially certified or notarized as a genuine original or copy at the level the document is generated (City or County Clerk or through an institution such as a University that conferred a degree).

B. Apostilled by the Secretary of State in the state where the document originated.

You will then submit that dossier to the Embassy or Consulate of Vietnam where they will provide both an official translation AND official certification stamps (as previously shown in this thread) for both the document and the translation.

In effect, they will notarize the apostille as being genuine.

Even though they are not signatories to the Berne Convention, due to their placement in the United States they are uniquely qualified to certify the authenticity of state government apostilles.

Your dossier will then be entered electronically into the digital records system of the Vietnam Foreign Services and be available for use in Vietnam through the local Vietnam Foreign Services offices.

NOTE: they will also return your physical certified copy of your dossier to you.

This is the best method for people seeking employment in Vietnam.

For instance, if a person wants to be an English teacher and they have their dossier on file with the Vietnam Foreign Service, then they only have to give that information to prospective employers who can access everything they need in order to apply for a work permit.

2. Using the US Embassy & Consulate Notary Services

This particular method could conceivably be halted by any individual government in Vietnam, at the provincial or national level.

However, as crazy as this sounds (a total lack of logic) it continues to work for US citizens daily:

1. Bring your notarized copies of US documents to a notary appointment at the embassy or consulate.

(In my case, I had also obtained apostilles from the California Secretary of State, in addition to notarization/certification at the County Clerk level, but I have since seen many anecdotal reports of people completing this process without the state apostille and only having document notarization/certification within the previous 6 months.)

2. The US foreign service officer at the consulate or embassy will provide you with a template for a notarization.

It will be YOU who describes in your own handwriting the document(s).

It will be YOU who then swears to the authenticity of those documents.

The US foreign service officer will only notarize your signature and the fact that you swore to the authenticity of the documents.

That's the only thing that the US Foreign Service provides; a notarization of your signature.

After that, you take the dossier to the local office of the Vietnam Foreign Services.

That office will do two things:

A. Translate your documents officially and certify the translation.

B. Notarize that the signature of the US Foreign Fervice Officer is in fact genuine.

So nobody at either place actually certifies that your documents are genuine.

It's a notarization of your signature followed by a notarization of the signature of the US foreign service officer.

Logically, that should not suffice the legal requirements, especially when compared to what is done back in the United States by the Vietnam Foreign Services.

But in my case (with my marriage documents) and in many, many anecdotal reports in this forum, that completed dossier turns out to be acceptable to provincial governments and immigration offices and for work permit applications.

Some say it has to do with the mystical power of the notary stamp from the US foreign services and perhaps a misunderstanding of that stamp.

For whatever reason, that's what works for US citizens.

Other nationalities will have to chime in with what works for them.

Good luck!

@jrharvey the paper you already have is a certificated copy valid only in USA. The first mission is to have your Marriage Certificate Authenticated/Legalized; again: NOT APOSTILLED (both for use overseas, but depending on the target country you must choose the correct one).

•   An apostille is for documents to be used in countries that participate in the Hague Convention Treaty. (Vietnam is not member)
• Authentication certificates are for documents to be used in countries that do not participate in the 1961 Hague Convention Treaty. (Vietnam case)

Once you get your paper Authenticated, finished with USA, because everything else is up to the Vietnamese Authorities. The second step: "Vietnamese Consular Legalization Stamp" at Vietnamese Embassy or Consulate or MOFA, the third step is to translate that set of papers into vietnamese and bingo!!! your Marriage in USA will be recognized by Vietnam. Then your Visa TT is piece of cake.

Please read the following official websites: https://vn.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-se … -services/ (Services We CAN and CANNOT Provide)  and https://travel.state.gov/content/travel … ments.html

Now you are here and you will have your appointment at US Embassy on Monday, I wish you good luck to get the Authentication/Legalization. @pogiwayne is also US-Citizen and shared his case of success.

I don't comprehend how another US-Citizen here was only making this thread very huge, during 10 days, sending you to Vũng Tàu, Quảng Ngãi, Da Nang and Hanoi, to translate your passport and fill out a lot of forms and apostilles instead of to use his expertice as US-Citizen from the begining telling "hey man, simple go to the US Embassy and do a sworn that your paper is genuine and get the Authentication (legalization)"

Basically the US Embassy is not authenticating your document, but authenticates you swear that paper is genuine.... and later Vietnam is legalizing your oath...  wow, well played!!!   not joking, it could also works.

@ajairon I think the reason it was recommended to go to hanoi is because when I went to the embassy there were no appointments for a year and a half and the embassy just said there was nothing they could do. Somehow some agent caught us outside the embassy and got us an appointment later. I wouldn't say the embassy is an easy thing to do by yourself. If I couldn't get an appointment I would probably get a Vietnam marriage certificate Instead but my wife is saying that's a whole bug deal we don't want to mess with as well.

@jrharvey hello, maybe you are joking but I understand you are stressed and want to analyze all your alternatives, but in your particular case having to authenticate your papers from here in Asia you will not improve anything because you must demonstrate you are single or already-married-same-bride, and some additional certifications (mental health) not difficult to get from here.

Read this official page: https://www.vietnamconsulate-ny.org/ser … t-nam.html

Thus, to validate you are currently married and/or to get married again, you will need the same Civil Status Certification with all the same quantity of stamps.

An apostille is for documents to be used in countries that participate in the Hague Convention Treaty. (Vietnam is not member)
Authentication certificates are for documents to be used in countries that do not participate in the 1961 Hague Convention Treaty. (Vietnam case)

But you said...

You must know rules for acepting Personal Identifications (passports, visas, international driver license) and any valued docs Legalized or Apostillde, are under the Vienna Convention and Hague Conference for Member's Local Laws. Thus, in USA, Ecuador, Vietnam or Vaticano this paperwork, legally, has no differences.

So which is it Master?

Does the Hague Convention apply here or not?

And why can't you grasp that a United States state is capable of issuing it's own apostille which CAN be accepted in the United States by the Vietnam Foreign Service there?

Basically the US Embassy is not authenticating your document, but authenticates you swear that paper is genuine....

NOW you acknowledge what you denounced previously?

and later Vietnam is legalizing your oath... -@ajairon

No.

That's not true.

The only thing that the Government of Vietnam (Foreign Service) does is to notarize the signature of the US Foreign Service officer at the Embassy or Consulate here.

If you were to actually read the authentication stamp from the Vietnam Foreign Service, you'd see that clearly.

You can call that "legalizing your oath" if you want, but there is absolutely nothing in the notarization from the Vietnam foreign service other than the certification of the authenticity of the signature by the US Foreign Service Officer.

There's no doubt that US citizens are then able to use the underlying documents here in Vietnam, but the reality is, this is a game to fulfill everyone's need to not take responsibility.

The US Foreign Service is constrained by law from doing what should be required (the full verification of documents as done in the United States by the Vietnam Foreign Service there).

So somewhere along the line, somebody came up with the idea of notarizing an individual's sworn affirmation.

That affirmation does nothing to legalize the document, but hey, attaching a notary seal from the US embassy to the statement just might make a difference, even though the embassy or consulate officer does nothing to validate the documents that are attached to your statement.

So for whatever reason, the Vietnam foreign service plays along and says they will notarize the signature of the US foreign service officer and attach their notarization/authentication stamp to the document.

Now somebody in a government agency or at the provincial level sees the US government notarization and the Vietnam government notarization and thinks, "if they notarized it, I'm not going to argue and say that they really haven't done anything to show me that the underlying document is actually genuine".

So that person accepts the dossier and the employment or the marriage or the TRC is approved.

Troll on!

Does the Hague Convention apply here or not?

I was very clearly when I mentioned the Vienna and Hague CONFERENCE on Private International Law (HCCH), to which Vietnam is also a member AND IS OBLIGATED TO FOLLOW. But Vietnam isn't a signer of the Hague-ApostilleCONVENTION...  in order to don't confuse: Vietnam doesn't recognize Apostilles and this was repeated several times by me.

That's the "why" when you mentioned: "I have since seen many anecdotal reports of people completing this process without the state apostille and only having document notarization/certification" , because once again: the Apostille in VN has not any value. Your US-Embassy was only interested in your ContrySideNotaryStamp.

In abstract: I mentioned the steps pursuant international law that countries are at least required to comply with. Three days ago I also recognized the workaround mentioned by @pogiwayne and @OceanBeach92107 in order to finally get theUS-Authentication/Legalization stamp... that is not 100% legal, but lawfully and could works because also countries are permitted, but never obligated, to be favorable with users.

That's the "why" when you mentioned: "I have since seen many anecdotal reports of people completing this process without the state apostille and only having document notarization/certification" , because once again: the Apostille in VN has not any value. Your US-Embassy was only interested in your ContrySideNotaryStamp. ???
-@ajairon

But you are 1. missing one of my key points and 2. AGAIN stating something that IS NOT TRUE:

1. IN THE USA: The Vietnam Foreign Service (at their consulate and embassy) both REQUIRES a US state Secretary of State apostille AND ACCEPTS those apostilles in complete dossiers.

When US CITIZENS are discussing ALL of their options, it's important to point out one legal method that still works from within the UNITED STATES (I have no clue what works in Ecuador).

(Please keep in mind that when many of us answer these inquiries, we do our best to include all relevant information for the sake of the future casual reader of this forum who may be reading threads such as this.)

2. The US Embassy & Consulate in Vietnam have ZERO interest in your notary stamps from the United States.

They do not verify OR acknowledge anything regarding your notarized documents.

They are scrupulously careful to avoid the appearance of doing either of those things.

As I previously stated, American Citizens Services (through an officer of the US Foreign Service at the Embassy or Consulate) will provide any US citizen with a blank notarization template on which THE CITIZEN must describe the document (virtually ANY document) to be affixed to their sworn statement that the documents are as described and are TRUE COPIES of the original documents.

The US Foreign Service officer then notarizes the SWORN STATEMENT and SIGNATURE of the US citizen.

As a separate courtesy, the officer will then usually provide a separate slip of paper with directions to the nearest office of the Vietnam Foreign Service (Ministry of Foreign Affairs - MOFA) for the US citizen to have the signature/notarization of the US Foreign Service officer notarized.

At the MOFA office, two things happen:

A. The MOFA officer notarizes the signature of the US Foreign Service officer and will also

B. officially translate any documents in the dossier, after which they will affix the MOFA seal/stamp, attesting to the authenticity of the translation.

Neither foreign service officer (US or MOFA) does anything at all to verify the authenticity of the notarization from the United States.

As I noted before, it's a somewhat hilarious diplomatic end around, and I truly believe that it could be halted any day, but as long as the US Foreign Service and MOFA are willing to contribute to official-looking dossiers, then provincial governments and other interested parties will probably continue to accept them.

I do know that you are trying to be helpful, but you might remember another exchange we had a while back where there was confusion because English is not your first language.

I'm sure everyone appreciates your effort to help, but sometimes your syntax and grammar and spelling can get in the way of people understanding specifically what happens in the United States and at the US foreign services in Vietnam.

Cheers!