Buying a Condo

Addition maintenance fees is very common in Thailand.

When i move here, My Friend that own a condo gave up after many years because of it.

In his condo tower when i move here there was 11 or 12 unite that was own by the Banks.

After people stop paying the loan, And the Banks didn't pay maintenance fees.

So everyone else have to cover that IF they wanted thing to be the same.

Every year when some of Thai return home, They stop paying maintenance fees.

And again, If people staying at the condo, Wanted thing to caring on, They have to cover that.

If Thai lose there job, The stop paying maintenance fees and so on.

We move into a brand new build condo tower many years ago, And everything was perfect to start out.

Everything gotten take care of, The big garden, The Pools, The guards was real guards train with the Thai military, So all ways good.

But some people lost the unite for not paying (Bank take the unite)

Some have buy the condo in hope to make a profit in 2-3 years later, And didn't pay and maintenance fees, As they did not use the condo.

And there was family that buy Condo for the kids to use in 2-3-4 years time when they have to go to Universitet, And no maintenance fees from them.

We was together with our old Condo landlord, And he told us, Under Covid people simple stop paying maintenance fees, 3 out 4 condo have stop paying, And he show pictures and stories from what going on there because of it.

So he going to sell when he can, And go for a house..

It is all ways simple & easy on paper, XX unite to pay XXX.XXX amount per year.

Real life is not all ways that simple & easy.

This is why i stop my plans for buying a condo, From seeing from good friends, And where we live.

Kindly.

Addition maintenance fees is very common in Thailand.
When i move here, My Friend that own a condo gave up after many years because of it.

In his condo tower when i move here there was 11 or 12 unite that was own by the Banks.
After people stop paying the loan, And the Banks didn't pay maintenance fees.
So everyone else have to cover that IF they wanted thing to be the same.

Every year when some of Thai return home, They stop paying maintenance fees.
And again, If people staying at the condo, Wanted thing to caring on, They have to cover that.
If Thai lose there job, The stop paying maintenance fees and so on.

We move into a brand new build condo tower many years ago, And everything was perfect to start out.
Everything gotten take care of, The big garden, The Pools, The guards was real guards train with the Thai military, So all ways good.

But some people lost the unite for not paying (Bank take the unite)
Some have buy the condo in hope to make a profit in 2-3 years later, And didn't pay and maintenance fees, As they did not use the condo.

And there was family that buy Condo for the kids to use in 2-3-4 years time when they have to go to Universitet, And no maintenance fees from them.


We was together with our old Condo landlord, And he told us, Under Covid people simple stop paying maintenance fees, 3 out 4 condo have stop paying, And he show pictures and stories from what going on there because of it.
So he going to sell when he can, And go for a house..

It is all ways simple & easy on paper, XX unite to pay XXX.XXX amount per year.
Real life is not all ways that simple & easy.

This is why i stop my plans for buying a condo, From seeing from good friends, And where we live.

Kindly.
-@Never done that

You can't get away from stopping paying the maintenance fee while still living in the condo. It doesn't work like that. After a couple of years without paying they will cut the power and water. Where I'm staying there have never been any additional maintenance fees what so ever even if some people have left.

And these people should sell their units and go back renting.  That seems to be the logical option.  A condo is not a social service where those with jobs pay for those without.   If they are allowed to get away from not paying their fair share, the Juristic Office is not doing its job. 

People on here, Thinks is fair here in Thailand, Really !!!

If Thai people dont want to pay, They stop paying.

Good luck trying to get them to pay, Or even find them if they go back home.

If you live in a condo tower where people all ways pay, Good for you.

But that not the same thing, As everywhere is the same....

I never live in a condo tower in Thailand, Where everyone pay all the time.

Hell, I even have a neighbor when living in Nonthaburi, In a condo tower, That neighbor never pay any maintenance fee in the 2 years i was living there.

When people come and talk to him/them about paying maintenance fee.

He say sorry dont have the money to pay, I am going to try to pay, But Of cause never did when i was living there.

He stop paying for water and power, And at the end got the water & power cut.

And still the family was living in there with no water & power.

Kindly.

I don't think it's norm for people there to live without water and power forever. Why would they? Better to sell the condo and rent for a while with water and power.

I respect your experience there though.   I believe you.  I am just saying that people should know their priorities but I guess not many people do.

It reminds me of Californians who whine about high cost of living and how they are living paycheck to paycheck.  Yet they can't see the simploe solution of selling their half a mil dollar house and moving to another State where they can pay a downsized house cash and still have some left for savings. 

Update

• My agent always tell me to trust her and not to talk to others
• Here is my advise to all honest sales agents: DIFFERENTIATE YOURSELVES FROM SCAMMERS BY ENCOURAGING BUYERS TO DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH.
• Anyhoo, the Purchase and Sell Agreement is going to be signed soon, immediately after which I am to pay initial deposit of B400K.  Got to trust my research.  No pain no gain.

Also, I wish to mention that when I was beginning to research all of this, I chose one of the reputable real estate agency by showing them a link to the property.  You know what they told me, let me copy paste their communique:

"That one is a listing of another company."

And instead of looking at it, brushed it off and instead proceeded to show me their listing of properties.

I do not know to this day why they did not check that property and represent me.  For a beginner like me, it conditioned my mind that I can only deal with listing agents which is exactly how it is in the US.

So lesson to all, find your agent and deal with that agent.  If some agents like to play US-style, then just move on to your next preferred agency.  Do not limit to a listing agency. Mine is a Thai agent and there is communication issue, as well as cultural. For Thais, maybe they want things done by trust and emotions. For Westerners, we objectify and research and it is not a knock on Thais' trustworthiness -- we call it due diligence.

Update:

Seller/"owner" sent me screenshot of his agent's screenshot of my booking fee transfer. I did mention in my chats prior wtih the "owner" to message me once he gets the money. That was my way of saying I already booked it so do not entertain any ohter buyers. So it was a very pleasant surprise he sent me my screeshot back.
The other good thing with that screenshot he sent is his agent's name was on it. I did not even know he has an agent. All along it was just 1 agent we were dealing with. I recognized the name and it was the name from the juristic office. I guess juristic office can act as agent as well -- kinda makes sense for them -- they get the info from owners wanting to sell and if the owner trusts them, like this "owner", they would hire them. It's also convenient for owners to have trust relationship with their juristic officers as they see them Monday-Friday in their condo.
Anyway, I saw this juristic officer when my agent did her virtual tour. I got familiarized with her face and name as she was introduced to me over the tour by my agent. So when I searched for her name in FB, I saw her as the juristic officer of the condo developer's FB account.
So now I have the 3 people's contact information and faces -- my agent, "owner's" agent/juristic officer of the Developer, and the "owner".
-@Bigrad Wolf

• I wish to bring the above back up because the seller agent who I thought was also a juristic officer said she was not. I made a wrong assumption. So what I did was follow-up this email I wrote to the Juristic Office asking for true current owner of the unit.
• While it is true that I have pictures, videos of owner in the unit, as well as title to his name, in my mind, a renter could take his/her picture and videos in the unit. Prior owners could as well during their stay - doesn't make them current owners. The pics and videos while necessary pieces of information are still not absolute truth. What about the Title ? -- Well I can make a title using Photoshop , actual parchment used and a quality printer. So again, the softcopy Title forwarded to me was a key piece but not absolute truth.
• Where does the above mistake of assumption between seller agent and juristic office come into play into all of this? It is the Juristic Office who can tell me who true current owner is of the condo unit. 
• Again communication issues. Thai Juristic Officer thought I was an alleged "owner" and hence thought I was a scammer. (Ha! Now the roles reversed! It is THEY who want to investigate me ).  It took more than a week before they got ahold of the seller's agent and inquired about me and agent said she will talk to me. That is when she told me the Juristic Office thought I was a scammer and hence did not answer my inquiry of who is the true current owner. I clarified today by telling the agent I never identified mysel as "owner" but a buyer. 
• With things cleared up, I finally got a response from Juristic Office telling me that the seller is the true owner of the condo I was buying. That completes my investigation of true ownership.  I am now prepared to pay initial deposit of B400K.

Oh I forgot to mention, one of the reasons it is smart to reach out to the owner directly is to get from him direct documents. I noticed the signature of the owner/seller and the signature on the Lease Agreement were different. This really bothered me. It is the very reason why I ask for many documents. I got that clarified as well as seller/owner sent me Power of Attorney to a certain person who signed for his stead the Lease Agreement as his representative.   This representative is also known to the seller's agent and she actually called her by a nickname when I brought her up in one of our recent chats.  Well, it is important piece of information that she knows  the representative since they deal with the same owner/seller.   

@Leeds forever! Interesting point about the electricity price. I live in a condo. Where can I found the government   price for a condo. I visit the energy site and got totally confused!

@Leeds forever! Interesting point about the electricity price. I live in a condo. Where can I found the government  price for a condo. I visit the energy site and got totally confused!
-@Foreigner235

Are you with PEA or MEA? You can figure out the price per unit if you check the bill. 

The price per unit will go up a bit again by the way,to 4.77 baht/unit before tax.

@Leeds forever! Thanks for the answer. Unfortunately I don't see the bill, this one sent directly to the condos manager who billed us monthly. Will try to get more info (PEA or MEA) but not an easy task. My limited understanding is the owner price (residential - schedule 1 PEA) is different than the one of the renters (hotel rate - schedule 5 PEA) as our unit is rented when we are not occupying it.

@Leeds forever! Thanks for the answer. Unfortunately I don't see the bill, this one sent directly to the condos manager who billed us monthly. Will try to get more info (PEA or MEA) but not an easy task. My limited understanding is the owner price (residential - schedule 1 PEA) is different than the one of the renters (hotel rate - schedule 5 PEA) as our unit is rented when we are not occupying it.
-@Foreigner235

Your condo is just a rental? Who do you rent from,condo management? I bet you're paying much more than the government price. Paying directly to condo management without knowing the consumption/month or the price/unit is in my opinion pure stupidity. One of the first questions you should ask when looking around for a condo, is about the price/unit. Where I'm staying everybody pays the same price, it doesn't matter if you're an owner or a tenant. I get the bill in my hand every month, then Kasikorn Bank pay as billed automatically every month the 25th (except for February when it's the 23rd). Before 2022 when the price/unit was still 3.90 (before tax), there were loads of condominiums charging short term tenants 8 baht/unit. I don't know how much they pay now,probably more. Have you never asked how much you pay/unit and if there are additional costs ? They have to tell you.

Does anyone of you mind sharing your Purchase/Sales contract with personal data redacted of course.  I am more interested in the salient points.. 

It sucks my agent is just a that -- a sales agent.  The seller's agent is the one creating the Sales/Purchase contract.    But I guess that is the common practice? 

Updates:

• Sale/Purchase Agreement was signed
• Initial deposit paid
• Seller met with his agent to turnover original Title, keys, etc. for agent's safekeeping
• Seller and his agent signed POA
• I am booked next month to meet his and my agent to introduce me to Juristic Office and show me around the property
• If all is good, I pay for the condo, I get the keys.
• Then we go to PLO to register/transfer Title to my name and wait.  There is a 50-50 cost share on transfer between seller and buyer, which I think is industry standard.

People on here, Thinks is fair here in Thailand, Really !!!
If Thai people dont want to pay, They stop paying.
Good luck trying to get them to pay, Or even find them if they go back home.

If you live in a condo tower where people all ways pay, Good for you.
But that not the same thing, As everywhere is the same....

I never live in a condo tower in Thailand, Where everyone pay all the time.

Hell, I even have a neighbor when living in Nonthaburi, In a condo tower, That neighbor never pay any maintenance fee in the 2 years i was living there.
When people come and talk to him/them about paying maintenance fee.
He say sorry dont have the money to pay, I am going to try to pay, But Of cause never did when i was living there.

He stop paying for water and power, And at the end got the water & power cut.
And still the family was living in there with no water & power.

Kindly.
-@Never done that

In your examples, it is realistic that people in certain situation cannot pay the maint fees.  In an ideal world, the way the Juristic Office should handle  it is lock the units, as Leeds said.   Then, accrue with compounding interest the debt on maint fees.  While that is happening, the rest of the paying owners may see an "adjustment increase" on their main fees to factor in the unpaid.   Usually the maint fee is set with an allowance, i.e., it is set up to create a savings for a future unappropriated need.  But for unusual set-ups, then I can see an increase will happen.    I can imagine condos who would need to have an increase are those with lower maint fees to begin with.

But when  the owner is ready to use the unit again, or sell the unit, the accrued maint fees + compounded interest  have to be paid first.   This fee that was paid should then be used for an "adjustment decrease" on the maint fees of good-standing owners.   Otherwise, it is just unfair to them.

If there is no such mechanism, then I do see why people would just not pay maint fees.   

People on here, Thinks is fair here in Thailand, Really !!!
If Thai people dont want to pay, They stop paying.
Good luck trying to get them to pay, Or even find them if they go back home.

If you live in a condo tower where people all ways pay, Good for you.
But that not the same thing, As everywhere is the same....

I never live in a condo tower in Thailand, Where everyone pay all the time.

Hell, I even have a neighbor when living in Nonthaburi, In a condo tower, That neighbor never pay any maintenance fee in the 2 years i was living there.
When people come and talk to him/them about paying maintenance fee.
He say sorry dont have the money to pay, I am going to try to pay, But Of cause never did when i was living there.

He stop paying for water and power, And at the end got the water & power cut.
And still the family was living in there with no water & power.

Kindly.
-@Never done that
In your examples, it is realistic that people in certain situation cannot pay the maint fees. In an ideal world, the way the Juristic Office should handle it is lock the units, as Leeds said.  Then, accrue with compounding interest the debt on maint fees. While that is happening, the rest of the paying owners may see an "adjustment increase" on their main fees to factor in the unpaid.  Usually the maint fee is set with an allowance, i.e., it is set up to create a savings for a future unappropriated need. But for unusual set-ups, then I can see an increase will happen.  I can imagine condos who would need to have an increase are those with lower maint fees to begin with.

But when the owner is ready to use the unit again, or sell the unit, the accrued maint fees + compounded interest have to be paid first.  This fee that was paid should then be used for an "adjustment decrease" on the maint fees of good-standing owners.  Otherwise, it is just unfair to them.


If there is no such mechanism, then I do see why people would just not pay maint fees. 
-@Bigrad Wolf

People with half a brain wouldn't stay in a condo where power and water have been cut. I know some Thai "owned" condos, bought with borrowed money. When they couldn't pay the maintenance fee, then even mortgages, the bank kicked them out. Some are still empty and the bank doesn't seem to have any interest in selling them. Many years ago, no one thought that owners would stop paying maintenance fees and they can't officially do anything about it, except cutting power and water and giving them a fine for the not paid maintenance fee. That fine will of course accumulate over time if they keep refusing to pay. But, they still are the owners and they are almost "untouchable" according to the law. Foreigners are not the problem,they eventually pay when they show up,like after the pandemic. It seems like Thai people don't understand rules and regulations.

@Leeds forever! It also helps that before someone can sell a unit to another that is has to be free from liens and that includes the Juristic Office's statement clearing the owner.   In the condo I am buying, one of the stipulations in the Purchase/Sale Agreement is the seller must produce such, meaning if there are any past due, accrued unpaid maint fees, he has to settle them first OR at least deduct if from the purchase price.

@Leeds forever! It also helps that before someone can sell a unit to another that is has to be free from liens and that includes the Juristic Office's statement clearing the owner.  In the condo I am buying, one of the stipulations in the Purchase/Sale Agreement is the seller must produce such, meaning if there are any past due, accrued unpaid maint fees, he has to settle them first OR at least deduct if from the purchase price.
-@Bigrad Wolf

Unpaid maintenance fees always goes to condominium management and have to be paid when selling a condo. The new owner has nothing to do with that.

All about Transfer Fee and Tax and who pays what.

https://thailand.acclime.com/guides/res … fer%20fee.

As some of you may know, I have arrived in The Land of Smiles.

Sawasdee Krap!

I have paid fully the unit, and have the Chanote titled to my "Thai" name, which Google translate could not seem to match exactly to my name no matter how many tries (it is close but not quite exact).  Juristic office already got a copy of my Chanote and my info.  Got all the keys as well and raring to use it. 

Next is, I want to get a Certified English Translation of the Chanote.  Then the Thai Bank Account application.   I wish to get these 2 done on or before May 23.   

Congratulations on your new home!

Congratulations on your new home!
-@scbrock

Why thank you kind sir scbrock.   Yeah, I'm thinking of retiring 3.5 years from now but might as well position and hedge now while the baht is 0.290 dollar and still not back to pre-pandemic level of 0.0325 dollar per baht. 

Wish you success on your plans on buying a Thai property! 

Updates:

• SIM Card purchased for OTP (one-time passcode) purpose
• Bank account done (cost of B7,100 with insurance cost of B5.9K, B500 deposit, and the rest for ATM card)
• Power Electric Authority (PEA) electric service account changed to my name
• Celebrated with B1.5K worth of seafood in Fish Market with agent  (we're both full but still have plenty of leftover bags).

Next

• English Chanote
• Lease Agreement

Updates:

• Got my English Chanote (B500)
• Lease Agreement is drafted and waiting to be signed

Updates:

• Lease signed, deposit and Jun rent had been received.
• This is DONE. 

hello. if you need any help in thailand. just let me know.... buy,,, sale,, car,, big bike., condo,, village,, house, rent,,.((anything)) ***

@tehrann1212

Can you contact me by way of private messaging system...???

@Bigrad Wolf

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Did have any issue or additional experience after buying?

    @Bigrad WolfThanks for sharing your experience.Did have any issue or additional experience after buying?        -@Kripper

Sorry I missed this question and is only now replying. 

Yes, the negatives are:

• I tried to increase my rent but my tenant left.  So I went back to my old rent fee and within a month had a new lessee.   In short, It kinda sucked the prior tenant left instead of negotiating with me for same rent.   It's a hassle.   I will try the same with this new tenant.  Hopefully he accepts the 5% inflation increase when it's time to renew.
• I had to replace the compressor for my aircon.

The positives are:

• There is one building being built less than 5-minute walk from mine and the starting price per SQM is more than double my price of acquisition of my unit.  This is a comparable property.   A starting price to me means from the lowest floor so it is even safe to assume  the price would further increase if it is same as my floor level's  It's nice to know prices doubled within a year of purchase.  If I held in stocks, it would take me 7 years to double.    But as this is my future retirement home, I am not selling and is just hoping, prices would continue to go up in my nice area due to low supply, big demand. 

I am also getting clearance from Juristic Office to install a projector.  I have  a nice white wall on one of my balcony side that I can use as projector screen. 

   
    @Bigrad WolfThanks for sharing your experience.Did have any issue or additional experience after buying?        -@Kripper

Sorry I missed this question and is only now replying. 

Yes, the negatives are:
I tried to increase my rent but my tenant left.  So I went back to my old rent fee and within a month had a new lessee.   In short, It kinda sucked the prior tenant left instead of negotiating with me for same rent.   It's a hassle.   I will try the same with this new tenant.  Hopefully he accepts the 5% inflation increase when it's time to renew.
I had to replace the compressor for my aircon.

The positives are:
There is one building being built less than 5-minute walk from mine and the starting price per SQM is more than double my price of acquisition of my unit.  This is a comparable property.   A starting price to me means from the lowest floor so it is even safe to assume  the price would further increase if it is same as my floor level's  It's nice to know prices doubled within a year of purchase.  If I held in stocks, it would take me 7 years to double.    But as this is my future retirement home, I am not selling and is just hoping, prices would continue to go up in my nice area due to low supply, big demand. 
   

    -@Bigrad Wolf

Increase for reason of inflation should be linked to the average inflation rate and taking our excessive highs and lows. 5% is not a fair inflation rate in Thailand

SInce the neighboring building is being built you have no good view on facilities etc. I would wait for near completion to see if it is really competitive to

your building and building costs/prices don't double overnight...

The could even be over asking, not being able to find buyers and the price will adjust

It's really 1% inflation rate,....it's just that the rent has been teh same for the past 5 years.