Your learning Spanish in Cuenca thread.

For the peeps that are working on their Spanish, the verb "gustar" is one of the more troublesome words. Part of the problem is

grammar textbooks usually concentrate on the third person forms (s/he, it, they) of gustar.

Well, if there is a more comprehensive discussion of the verb gustar than the one discussed on the following web page, I would like to see it.

http://www.thelearninglight.com/gustar.htm

One note about the word gustar, I'm not sure about other Spanish speaking countries, but in Ecuador if you use gustar for a person, it usually means you like them romantically. For example: Me gusta Amber (I like Amber romantically.)

  To say you like someone as a just a friend, it's more common to hear "Me cae bien, John" (I like John) or "Me cae mal" if you don't like them. 

  Recently, a visitor from the USA told me she was in a van and the driver was listening to Michael Jackson.  So she asked him "¿Te gusta Michael Jackson?" He got offended and heavily denied any romantic infatuation with Michael Jackson.  She had no idea why he was so upset until we explained later that she should have asked "¿Te cae bien, Michael Jackson?".

jm141302,

Good point. I was told the same thing some years ago when I studied Spanish in Antigua, Guatemala.

Here is a website that may interest you. The woman who runs the website who is from Spain and is an absolute podcasting animal, and I mean that favorably.

Her podcasts consist of dialogs about random topics, but what makes them great is she provides a written transcript with each of them that allow you to follow along while she talks.  Learning to read Spanish is a lot easier than learning to understand what somebody is saying. And yes, her accent and pronunciation is different from what you will hear in Ecuador, but she talks in a fairly deliberate pace so it makes easier to parse the words she is saying.

http://www.spanishpodcast.org/

A poor man's Rosetta Stone

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta … VzZnJlZSJd

Good Stuff from this book.

Here is an excerpt:

Problematic Verbs

There are a few verbs that students have trouble with when it comes to using either the imperfect or the preterit. These verbs are ser, estar, querer, poder, creer, and tener. Instead of finding the answer in grammar books, I decided to ask native speakers what they thought. These are their answers, which may or may not be correct:

ser


“La película era/fue larga.”
I asked my friend Guillermo what the differences between these two sentences were, and he said, “Whoa! They’re the same!” He and many of my other Mexican friends agree that they are the same. However, two Mexican speakers told me that they would say the first sentence if they were describing the movie. They would say the second one if they had just finished watching the movie.


“La Guerra de Secesión era/fue un desastre.”

Although both can be used here, fue is more common and makes more sense. I was told that saying era wouldn’t impede the overall meaning. I would say that fue is required because the Civil War is a historical event.


“Cuando yo era/fui niño, yo…”

Although Spanish speakers can’t explain why, they know that saying fui is incorrect. You have to use era because it is narrative background.


“Mi padre era/fue medico.”

Saying era in this sentences means that the father was a doctor during his life and died. Saying fue means that the father was a doctor at one point in his life, but he either retired or changed professions.


“El libro era/fue escrito por Cervantes.”

Here fue is required because it is a passive voice construction.


tener


“Mi hermano me dijo que tenía/tuvo un libro de francés.”

My friend translated these two sentences for me in English, and his translations surprised me. The imperfect sentence translates as, “My brother told me that he had a book.” The second is, “My brother told me that he used to have a book.” I was surprised because I had always learned that the habitual past in English (used to + verb) translates to the imperfect in Spanish. But in this sentence the preterit is translated as “used to + verb.” The only reason I can think of for this translation is the fact that the action of having something can’t be repeated over and over. And it can also be explained by applying the concept of aspect. The preterit implies perfective aspect (or complete), and the imperfect implies imperfective aspect (or incomplete).


“Yo tenía/tuve frío.”

“Yo tenía frío” means “I was cold.” And “Yo tuve frío” means “I got cold.” The imperfect sentence is a description. The preterit sentence is a sudden occurrence. This works for other expressions that require tener + adjective.


“Yo tuve una carta.”

According to many books, the preterit of tener means received. But my Spanish speaking friends don’t agree with that. The above sentence means “I used to have a letter.” Guillermo told he would’ve said, “Yo recibí una carta” if he wanted to say, “I received a letter.”


querer


“Yo me quería/quise ir.”

According to my Mexican friends, these two sentences are the same. But they would prefer to say quería. A Spaniard told me that they are not the same. He would use the preterit if he wanted to do it at that moment. Many books say that the preterit of querer means tried. But most Spanish speakers disagree with this. For them it is easier to use tratar. Ybette told me that the imperfect sentence means “I wanted to go” (but maybe I didn’t). The preterit sentence means “I wanted to go and I did.”
When querer is used in the preterit and negated, it means refused. For example:


“No me quise ir.” – “I refused to go.”


“Cuando la chica vio el caballo, lo quería/quiso de inmediato.”

In this case only the preterit is possible. This is because the action of wanting wasn’t continuous; it was a reaction to another action.


estar


“Yo estaba/estuve aquí a las nueve.”


Many grammar books say that the imperfect sentence means
“I was here at nine” whereas the preterit sentence means “I arrived here at nine.” I asked some Spanish speakers about this, and they told me that the second sentence stretches the meaning of estar. If they wanted to say “arrived,” they would say, “Yo llegué aquí a las nueve.” Ybette told me that the imperfect sentence means “I was here at nine” whereas the preterit sentence emphasizes the fact that the person was there at nine: “I WAS here at nine.”


“El hombre estaba/estuvo borracho.”


Saying “El hombre estaba borracho” is simply a description. To say “El hombre estuvo borracho,” you have to also indicate a place where he was drunk. For example: “El hombre estuvo borracho en el restaurante.” This also works with other adjectives.


Examples:
La chica estaba contenta.
La chica estuvo contenta en la fiesta.



creer


“La chica dijo que creía/creyó en Papá Noel.”


The imperfect sentence is an example of indirect speech. You could also say “La chica dijo, ‘Yo creo en Papá Noel.’” The preterit sentence translates into “The girl said she used to believe in Santa Claus.” This is another example of a preterit verb that means “used to.” The act of believing isn’t an action that can be repeated over and over again.




poder


“El estudiante podía/pudo hacer su tarea.”


The imperfect sentence indicates that the student had the ability to do his homework. The preterit sentence indicates that the student had the ability to do his homework and succeeded; his homework is finished.


“El estudiante no podía/pudo hacer su tarea.”


The imperfect sentence indicates that the student was capable of doing his homework, but for some reason he didn’t do it. The preterit sentence indicates that the student was not capable of doing his homework; he tried and failed.


“Used to” in the Sense of “Would”


English often uses the modal verb would where an imperfect verb would be used in Spanish. Look at the following sentence.


I would watch TV all day when I was young.
Yo miraba la television todo el día cuando era joven.


If the modal verb would is conveying a hypothetical situation, the conditional is used. But when it is used in a sentence like the one above, the imperfect is used.
These two past tenses require a lot of practice to understand correctly. The rules in this chapter should clarify when to use one or the other.

Thanks for the lengthy list of problematic verbs..  This is very useful.

I have retired, spent three weeks in Quito, but now I will be coming into Cuenca to live starting this Wednesday. I learned  some Spanish for 8 months  in Costa Rica, pero hace mucho tiempo (1991)..

Now I'm learning all over again.

One issue...   how to have English speaking friends but not hurt my Spanish learning.  I think this would be big problem hanging out with retirees who have no interest in learning the language.

Your thoughts??

Gary

Good question. While speaking English is not helpful, it is pretty much unavoidable. The main thing for those motivated in improving their Spanish, is to allocate some time each day to working on the Spanish, either with a teacher or using your own materials. How much time is a question of one's personal ambition and interest. 

I think a great place for the adult learner to take classes is from Lee Dubs at Carolina Bookstore on Hermano Miguel. He has been teaching Spanish for 50 years (mostly in the states) and since he speaks English fluently, he can explain things in English when needed. There are small classes sizes, you split the hourly cost(like $10) among the students who show up that day, and you meet some other expats.

Thanks EVCS and Nards....

This is helpful. 

I am trying to read a Spanish daily newspaper for 30 minutes a day just to expose myself more to the language. I also look for every opportunity to listen  when I hear a conversation going on... a kind of public eavesdropping...  works for me.

I plan to take a few weeks of Spanish classes and, if this seems to be useful, I'll continue for as long as it is helpful and I can afford. 

I can't really imagine planning to live in a new country and not learning the language. I spent one year in China in 2006-7, and found it terribly frustrating and isolating to not be able to communicate or just read signs, etc.   I realized China was not going to work for me because I found myself not motivated to learn the language.

thanks again for the advise.

Gary V

I was scolded for my improper use of the word "adios" a few weeks back in Guayaquil and then confirmed the appropriate use of the word with Sarah at Fastklin Lavanderia (who else).

In Ecuador "adios" is rarely used. Here it means "farewell", as at the airport when you don't expect to see the person again for a long time, if ever.

So, if you want to say goodbye to someone, one of the following is common:

Chao
Hasta Luego
Que pase bien

Check out this link peeps.The article has nothing to do with learning Spanish, although it makes for a good lead-in for a discussion on how I use my Sony PRS-T1 to work on my Spanish, by reading books in Spanish.

In my humble opinion, Sony has made the best ebook readers for students of Spanish over the past few years for one simple fact: the integration of the  into the device. You specify this dictionary in the settings. Then you press down on any word with your finger and you get a very thorough translation of the word into English.Take a look at the following definition of the word "DAR" below which I copied from the dictionary. Dar is one of those Spanish words that has many meanings to it, so it is not exactly typical, but it shows you to what extent Oxford goes to in providing a definition.

GaryV wrote:

Thanks EVCS and Nards....

I am trying to read a Spanish daily newspaper for 30 minutes a day just to expose myself more to the language. I also look for every opportunity to listen  when I hear a conversation going on... a kind of public eavesdropping...  works for me.
Gary V

Reading is good, but one also needs to listen to Ecuadorian radio and Ecuadorian TV to hear the pronounciation and rhythm of the speech.
Learning a language usually comes in 2 pairs of activity. Reading and writing come first. Followed by hearing (with understanding) and speaking.
One learning a new language needs to use their eyes, their hands, their ears, and their mouths.
!Suerte!  (no upside down exclamaiton point)

I wish there was a smart pill I could take, but alas.

Regarding radio, I occasionally tune in Radio Tomebamba

Regarding television, I sometimes watch the channel 2 newscast. According the station's website, they live stream between 6 and 10 p.m. on this justin.tv channel

For a limited time, the digital form of the newspaper El Universo is free, which is an exact replica of the paper version.

http://www.eluniverso.com/suscripciones/

If you open the paper on your desktop or laptop you are given the Flash based version, but you can download a pdf version using the menu at the bottom of the screen.

If you open the paper on an IPAD or other tablet you may need to force the browser to give you the desktop version in order to be able to download the pdf file. Reading it as a pdf file works a lot better in my opinion.

Now get your ass busy reading.

If you need an excuse to switch to the Google Chrome browser, this free add-on is it, because it is not available in FireFox:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta … coja?hl=es

Double click on Spanish word and up pops a definition in English. It only gives you a single word definition, so it by no means is great.

If you are a more hard-core learner the following is even better for word look-up, although licensing it costs money. Instead of double clicking on the word however, you use a short-cut key after highlighting the word.

I learned a new word today while reading this article from my favorite local rag, although I am not sure its use is prevalent with "the folks", since I believe "furgoneta" is more common.

buseta = minivan

I have whittled my daily news reading list down to the following five sites. All English-based news sites are shunned with the exception of some technology blogs I follow.

1. El Tiempo

Cuenca-based news site superior in content and layout to that of the El Mercurio in my opinion.

2. El Nuevo Herald

Miami based news website that covers everything.

3. Wall Street Journal (Spanish Edition)

Selected articles that have been translated from the English website.  Considering that the English-based site is almost all paid content requiring a subscription, while this one is free, it is an excellent value.

4. ESPN.com(basketball)

I only follow basketball back in the states. Lots of IDIOMS employed in the writing, which are difficult to learn.

5. CNN Español

While El Nuevo Herald covers most general news, there are lots of special-interest articles that keep me coming back to this site.

I just discovered this great thread.  Thank you.

Happy new years peeps and bloggers.

Learning the Spanish alphabet by memory seems to be less of a necessity as an adult learner, I suppose in part because the Spanish alphabet is the same as the English alphabet except for the addition of the letter "ñ".However, I find it useful to recite and pronounce the alphabet by memory because I often need to give my name and address in person or over the phone, which means spelling it out loud as well, and I don't always carry a copy of my passport. So here is my new year's recommendation: learn your ABCs in Spanish. Here is a link to a website that will assist you with that. There are also plenty of applications designed for your phone or tablet available for this purpose that you can download.By the way, if you thought there were additional letters to the Spanish alphabet, or if you hear certain letters being pronounced differently than you are expecting,check out this article which explains revisions that were made a few eyars ago.

I gave a guy in the post office a piece of paper with a tracking number. He asked me whether the "7" I had written was a 1 or a 7.  Now I write my 7s like this:

Learning Spanish Grammar can be as frustrating as trying to get quality information on visa and cedula requirements from bloggers, but I digress.

I spent an hour this afternoon digging through my Spanish grammar books and doing Google searches trying to find an exception to a grammar rule. 

I will quote an advanced Spanish book for the general rule; the way it was originally taught to me some years ago in Guatemala:

The imperfect subjunctive is used for the same reasons as the present subjunctive, but the verb in the main clause is in a past tense (usually the imperfect or the preterit tense).

You would think an advanced Spanish book would cover an exception but alas, I had to find it in this book instead.

When the main clause is in the present tense and requires the subjunctive, but the verb in the main clause refers to an action in the past, the subordinate clause is in the imperfect subjunctive.

Take a look at these sentences. The second example is the exception that I am talking about.

Ella espera que yo no gaste todo el dinero. (She hopes that I don't spend all the money.)

Ella espera que yo no gastara todo el dinero. (She hopes that I didn’t spend all the money.)

Here is another circumstance where the verb in the main can be in the present tense but the verb in the subordinate clause will be in the imperfect subjunctive.

The verb in a subordinate clause that begins with “as if ” or “as though” (como si) is in the imperfect subjunctive. The main clause can be in the present, the past, or the conditional tense.

Example:

Te ves como si fueras culpable. You look as if you were guilty.

From this article, the following sentence strikes me as odd:

Al igual que muchos africanos, los haitianos están desesperados y son vulnerables,

What I find odd is that the translator decided to link the verb estar with "desperate", but the verb ser with "vulnerable".

It seems that that the translator has decided that Haitians are vulnerable by nature, but that their desperation is a temporary condition.

Ponder that some more if you like after reading this article.

I have read in multiple sources a discussion on the differences between "pero" and "sino", but this is the first time I have seen the word "mas" thrown into the discussion.

The conjunction mas means “but” (as in “other than”). Mas is a synonym of pero. However, when the word “but” is used to indicate an exception to the norm, the word mas que is used:

In this book the following pitfall is indicated:

A main verb in a past tense can never be followed by a verb in the present subjunctive. A past subjunctive is required

Now look at this text pulled from this article of the El Nuevo Herald which appears to violate the pitfall stated above:

Panamá pidió el miércoles que la Organización de Estados Americanos (OEA) no ignore la “potencial violación” de su Carta Democrática

Now maybe there is an exception that I don't know about, but I see main verbs in the past tense followed by a verb in the present subjunctive all the time when reading articles.

I found the following explanation here, which reinforces what I was talking about in this comment above.

However, if the logic of the sentence requires, it’s perfectly possible to have a main clause in the present tense and still have the subordinate clause in the imperfect subjunctive:

dudo que lo hiciera tan rápido
“I doubt he did it so quickly”

Indeed, on rare occasions it’s just about possible to have te main verb in the future or at least periphrastic future (the ir a + infinitive construction) and have the subordinate verb in the past subjunctive:

No le va a gustar que no quisieras venir
“he won’t like the fact that you didn’t want to come”

These examples show that in general, the choice of present vs past subjunctive follows the logic of the sentence. There’s certainly no requirement for “subjunctive tense X because the main verb is tense Y” as is sometimes dictated in sequence of tenses analyses.

Nards, you obviously have a language gift and interest. You should open a language school for expats and/or teach English to locals.

Thanks fdmcg, but my Spanish is awful. I can't understand what the guards in my building are saying to me half the time.

Nards, it is the accent and slang not the language ability. Your "ear" will get accustomed quickly.

That is what I am hoping. Although I have never been a big TV watcher, I am incorporating it into my daily routine in order to improve my listening skills.

Regarding this commment, it may be a regional thing, as explained in a reply I received on a language learning forum.

Here is an example of “c)’.
Me extraña que no haya completado el trabajo. => third person present perfect.

Here is the clincher. In South America, the imperfect subjunctive “completara” may be used.

These notes came from “Bilingual …” section 20.11 page 799 ff.

Here is a list of the channels I have been able to pick up using my Television's antenna. I have noticed It helps to have the tv near the window for better reception.

It appears most of them do live streaming over the internet as well.

Channel 02    Telecuenca   
Channel 04    Telerama       
Channel 05    Ecuavisa     
Channel 07    TC
Channel 11    TA           
Channel 13    RTS           
Channel 21    Uno           
Channel 25    Unison       
Channel 35    UCSG         
Channel 40    Oromar HD     
Channel 48    ECTV

I like how this website implements their vocabulary section with lists and flashcards:

http://www.spanish411.net/Spanish-Vocabulary.asp

Generally the spelling or pronuciation of the major countries in Spanish is smilar to that of English. This country is the exception.

Los Países Bajos = The Netherlands

http://www.spanish411.net/Spanish-Vocab … 0%20GDP%29

I am branching out to other forums for Spanish grammar discussions.  I am still pretty much talking to myself, however. Plus, I don't receive points over there like I do here that elevate my status among expats.

What is next after "Serial Expat"? "Expat Guru" maybe?

Well that is interesting. I have heard "chancho" mentioned twice in the past week. The first time a guard in my building was telling me he got sick on chancho and the second time when the taxi driver told me there is lots of chancho during Carnaval.I have to laugh because I had pressed my guard into explaining to me what chancho is, he had told me the other names for pig, but I thought there was more to it for Chancho--like there was a special preparation involved. He just nodded his head in agreement.Anyway, I was reading this article about pig buying, and final paragraph they switch over to calling it Chancho.There are lots of names for pig in Spanish: Cerdo, Puerco, Cochino y Chancho.

When I came to Cuenca I brought my small desktop computer, but left the monitor, keyboard and mouse.

I bought a keyboard with Spanish keys when I got here, but many of the keys wouldn´t work since my computer was configured to work with English keyboards.

When I upgraded to Windows 8, I installed it so all my menus are in Spanish. During the configuration process, I specified the following keyboard software option:

ESP Español (ECUADOR)
LAA Teclado Español

I thought for sure this would solve my problem, but I was still having problems using certain keys. So I installed a secondary keyboard:

ESP Español (ECUADOR)
INTL Teclado Estados Unidos - Internacional

This keyboard enabled me to access those problem keys, but I still had to switch back to use certain other keys.


Today, I decided to head down to an internet Cafe to inspect the configuration of their computers, since I have never had a similar problem when using one of them.

I determined that the keyboard they have installed is the following:

ESP Español España
      Teclado Español

This solved my problem. All keys are now accessible.

All of your suggestions are appreciated. I for one will have lots of time to learn the language and believe I should respect
the local culture.
No one has mentioned any classes in Cuenca. I would like to hear from anyone who is taking lessons from a local tutor.

Carl