The French NO to the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe

Big debate ... but are we (french expats) really objective? Isn't it too early?

I just came back to France this monday and I discovered that the campaign here was really important. There are "no" banners everywhere in Paris.

Well, my opinion is very complicated, as it must be for a lot of young people. I am a bit frustrated because we are the "european generation", and we may have to wait now to take advantage of europe. On the other side, maybe we can't build Europe so fast. I heard (from a friend in England) that things are going too fast and that we don't take the time to build something stronger ...

I have been very interrested in all the debates, I listened to people in England and in Spain ... but it is very complicated. I don't know if we'll miss something or if we'll build something better (56% of people in France think it is possible)...

I also think that even if you disagree or not, it's been a very interresting debate in France, people had to think a lot about politics those last weeks, and they've been interested in the debate. I hope french people will keep thinking about politics and I hope we'll never see another April 21st.

I regret that most of the NOs are due to the national politics. The French wanted to get rid off their govennment. They did, but Europe has been sacrified at the same time.

OTOH, the Constitution is not clear enough for the average people...  I  understand this result.
78% of the French living out of France voted yes. The difference shows us we  don't have the same life here and there...

I hope something good will now happens. Submits have been scheduled in Bruxelles for the coming week.

What kind of Europe would you prefer? I personnaly think that federalism would be a good way to explore. After all, Québec remains Québec inside the canadian federation (hot topic!), France would be as french as before, inside a european federation...

What are the opinions of the other Europeans?

I read the European Constitution...twice. I'm not the least bit impressed with it because it still defers to the national laws of the country rather than to the EU. It is not the be-all end-all document it was supposed to be. For instance, regarding education...it says that home-schooling is an option...IF the national laws allow it. The world has so many Charters of Rights and Constitutions but it still doesn't keep our rights from being infringed upon if the State deems it necessary.  Although the French may have voted against it for political reasons, I believe they were right to do it anyway.

Well, others countries didn't agree and others wouldn't have aggreed neither (I'm sure Tony Blair took a deep breath after the no).

Things can't go fast everytime!

Klapisch, Heir of Carolus Magnus?

In his last movie (Russian Dolls) French director Klapisch strikes back with the idea that construction of Europe must have an 'organic' origin to be feasible (i.e. "make union not war"). The Union (the term itself is clear enough) should be seen as a huge love market where young people of various nations gather to form the network that will, one day, lead to an united Europe and it starts today with all the mixed couples and inter-marriages.
Carolus Magnus had the same idea in the 9th century when he promoted marriages between his counts' sons and daughters across Europe.

So the path to 'yes' (so to say) is a four syllabes' word : for-ni-ca-tion
It appears French politicians missed that important point...

Hey, hey, I was joking ok ? so don't kick me out of the forum, please

TC

The proposed European constitution confirmed a situation (at least here) in Spain regarding European's voting rights.
If you are a 'European' (i.e. non-Spanish) living in Spain, you can vote in local and European elections, but not in autonomous or national ones. If you are not European, then you can't vote anywhere. My wife is American and I'm English. She can't vote. She can't become European (there's no such passport... no such 'entidad política') and, to become British (and therefore 'European') she would need to live in the UK for seven years (!!).
The alternative would be to become 'Spanish'. (??) The same for me - if I became Spanish (apart from being too blond and tall, with an English accent) then I could vote in regional and national elections: become, in effect 'A First-Class European Citizen'!
This is the problem for Europeans living in other parts of Europe - for better or worse, we are treated as second-class Europeans..!

I'm sorry to make this topic pop up back, I just saw it (and just registered) and wanted to add something.

I don't agree with the argument that the french said "no" to their own governement. we had before the vote a Big debat in france, like it hasn"t been seen for so long. Debates with passion, not all were good, some were very political, but most were about the content of the constitution. I was "FOR" the constitution basicly, I changed my mind after reading it. I'm glad the french had the opportunity to have such debates, and to have the right to vote for it. all the people am surrouding by, familly, friends, colleague are very Pro-european, and most got a left party political colour (doesn't mean they are militant in any left party. not sure If I express myself good). some of them voted "Yes" by conviction, some voted "yes" with a "better than nothing" thought, and some just refused it. This is actually just democracy.

After the vote, the political changed the vote to a vote of protest against the governement. I've been shocked of this. Again everybody see noon at his door (risky try of expression translation sorry :p)
I can't reduce a Constitution text for the ideal that is Europe to just : "it's a constitution for europe, so it's good because I like europe"

They say there was no B plan in case of refuse.Few countries has the opportunities to has a referendum. Now we find out that they are thinking to a B plan, and they installed this "D plan" wich is about asking the europeans what they want. Might be a bit Deontologic, but at least this is the right process... Europe from my point of view must be Europe of the people before any other concept (including a big market)
So when the highest European institution will finally get out of their desk in bruxelles and talk to europeans, may be something will be possible.

Sorry for such a long post

P.S: salut strog je sais pas si tu te souviens de moi, on est allé se boire une binouze à praha l'été dernier, j'etais de passage, en quete d'instalation, t'as vu une pote a moi, une petite rouquine...