Any vietnames want help me (a healthy check in cho ray hospital)

Diazo wrote:

@ THIGV. Oh no doubt. To be honest with the numbers they must see every day at public hospitals the system would come to a complete halt if they did normal practices of medicine. Indeed, I had a doctor tell me if he re-gloved between each patient he would never get anything done. I told him I am only concerned about the patient in front of you now...my infant son....glove up. But I have been to doctors that were not pressured and they seem to have no concern for history other then current meds taken.. But  I must say medicine here and in other socialized medicine countries I have lived in is a dictatorial style “I am god you take this, you do that, and ask any questions” . They do not appreciate us getting involved. Ah just an exciting place!!

At the end of my visit to FV I needed the insurance form filled in for the claim, eventually after 2 huurs waiting & being told they had forgotten about me I was shown into the doctors office to go over their findings. She was decidedly disinterested & when I asked for the form to be filled in she said in no uncertain terms......."I am a doctor & dont fill in forms I will just sign it & you fill it in" & then she went back to looking blankly at her computer screen. A doctor trying that attitude in BKK or Sing would not last long in an International Hospital with a fee paying patient. Oh & by the way, dont use the excuse....... ah but FV in Vietnam costs less for treatment cos it dont, its every bit as expensive as say Bumrungrad International but in a scale of 1 to 10 on facilities, treatment & patient relations where 1 is low & 10 is high, my opinion ....FV 0.5 .........Bumrungrad 10+

THIGV wrote:

I have an experience to relate.  I hope that will be OK with goodolboy. 

It relates not to going to the hospital but to teaching English to a small group of doctors in my home.  My internist friend who I met at the local swimming pool set up the class.  Three were experienced doctors and one was a final year medical student.  The materials that I dug up on the internet were originally developed by an English teacher in the Czech Republic.  Most of the teaching material revolved around doctor-patient interviews, reviewing symptoms to develop a diagnosis.   This makes sense as this is the point of contact for doctors with international patients.   In almost every case my doctor students wanted to shorten the interviews by jumping to a diagnosis.  They asked very little about past patient history and didn't even consider asking about family history.  I think many westerners may have had similar experiences with locally trained doctors.  I had some experience with doctors who, although not fully western trained, had gone through fellowships in the US.   They tended to be much more patient than their peers in reaching diagnosis.   I suspect that this tendency to instantly diagnose and cut short the patient interview may be based on time pressures that local doctors have put on them by their hospitals.  This phenomenon may be similar the the problems that some have related here and all may stem from time pressures on physicians.  Do others have a similar experience?

Yes, and I think your story is back ON-topic for the OP's situation.

I've been to an emergency room three times since I've been here; not always for a true emergency, but except in Qui Nhơn, the emergency room was the only option offered.

The first time I was unprepared.

Because I had a female friend who speaks excellent English, and because I'm a retired Registered Nurse (California) I figured I'd be able to quickly and easily offer a succinct and pertinent history to the staff.

Not so.

I think, perhaps, that having a woman speaking for me to a male doctor was part of the problem.

However, since then, I go prepared with my pertinent history already translated into Tiếng Việt.

It still helps to have a translator, of course, but being prepared ahead of time with a pertinent history can be invaluable.

THIGV wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

I had a Russian trained doctor tell me to f*"k off.

I would expect that a lot of Vietnamese doctors between 50 and 60 years old now were Soviet trained either in Moscow or in Vietnam.  You might ask him how he feels about the theories of Lysenko, and if his training involved cutting the tails off of rats.   

I asked him if his mum was one of Stalin's fun time gals.

Seeing as it is a Russian hospital, I would assume he got his bedside manners from the old USSR.

Most hospitals here have no accreditation. FV has been accredited for their administrative areas. But there is no accredited laboratory nor other departments. It is not a cheap process to become accredited for an entire facility. But the ongoing oversight is priceless. For example in a lab they will periodically send blind specimens. If the tech reports it out incorrectly they are decertified and can not perform that particular function e.g microbiology. This really tends to sharpen the pencil if you will. Will it every be adopted in Vietnam?

@colinoscope. Very common in many countries when you deal with the godly. Happens here all the time. I once lived in Italy and my son was admitted to the hospital. This was my first experience with socialized medicine. Went to his room and there was feces and urine all over his bed. He said he was starving. I learned only then they were not cared for unless family did it. Went another day and my son was not there. Where is my son I asked. In a coma they said . Doctor said why are you a doctor? Even their interns students are not allowed to speak or ask questions. The follow the doctor around like a gaggle of geese. Strange for us Westerners.

Diazo wrote:

@colinoscope. Very common in many countries when you deal with the godly. Happens here all the time. I once lived in Italy and my son was admitted to the hospital. This was my first experience with socialized medicine. Went to his room and there was feces and urine all over his bed. He said he was starving. I learned only then they were not cared for unless family did it. Went another day and my son was not there. Where is my son I asked. In a coma they said . Doctor said why are you a doctor? Even their interns students are not allowed to speak or ask questions. The follow the doctor around like a gaggle of geese. Strange for us Westerners.

Well its Socialized medicine in UK NHS & France & for all their shortcomings, no one has to rely on their family to feed them or wash their soiled bed sheets! In fact France is known to have some of the best medical facilities & treatments in the world.

For me to say “ socialized” and make it sound as if all socialized medicine is that way I was wrong. Did not intend that. Indeed, I have been treated in many socialized medical facilities and it was not. But I do not recall ever being in a non-socialized medical facility and family having to care for the patient or the doctors being godly. But to do any type of generalization is wrong on my part. Not really the point I intended to make for sure.

It's definitely possible to get a semi-private or private room in a Vietnamese hospital and also to get a private nurse taking care of the specific needs of that patient.

Of course, that costs more money.

So the current situation has developed most likely because families actually want to provide as much personal care as possible for their family member.

Not having to pay someone else to do it is probably another key reason.

Diazo wrote:

I once lived in Italy and my son was admitted to the hospital. This was my first experience with socialized medicine. Went to his room and there was feces and urine all over his bed. He said he was starving. I learned only then they were not cared for unless family did it. Went another day and my son was not there. Where is my son I asked. In a coma they said . Doctor said why are you a doctor? Even their interns students are not allowed to speak or ask questions. The follow the doctor around like a gaggle of geese. Strange for us Westerners.

We lived in Città di Castello, Umbria from 2000 to 2007 and bought into the SSN (Servizio Sanitario Nazionale, the national health care).  Our annual premium was 7.5% of our taxable income in the States (we didn't have any income in Italy), which came to $550.  We didn't have to pay anything after that, and doctors made house calls twice a week.  At night and during holidays, a local (in the community) clinic was available 24 hrs.

My husband had a heart attack on Sunday morning, April 3, 2005 while at the public swimming pool with his friend who called for an ambulance (I was sleeping at home).  It was 8 minutes from the time the call was made to the time he was under care by a team of medical personnel (one cardiologist, one cardiothoracic surgeon, and a surgical nurse).  By the time I arrived at the hospital 45 minutes later, he was already flatlined 5 times.  The attending nurse said to him the last time he was brought back from death, "Siete come un gatto" (You're like a cat) for his using up 5 of his 9 lives. 

Due to the way his body reacted, the doctors asked my permission to transfer him to Silvestrini, a university hospital 55 km away in Perugia.  The cardiologist accompanied him in the ambulance.  At Silvestrini, they inserted 3 stents in his arteries.  He was kept in the hospital for 5 days, the first two days in a private room, the last 3 days in a double room.  His care was excellent, comparable to the care he received 7 years later in California when he had the second heart attack.  The cardiologist gave me his personal cell number so I could call anytime if I had questions (I did use it a few times.)

Italy didn't just care for the heart patient, they cared for the patient's family equally well.  For 12 months from the day of my husband's heart attack, my mental, emotional, and physical health were placed under a family care program with a psychologist, a nutritionist, a massage therapist, a social worker, and a gym.  They checked on me weekly to see if I needed help, if I had any problem caring for my husband, if I felt overwhelmed, etc. 

The cost for the entire year of his care -- doctors, hospital, specialists, medicine, tests, surgery, etc. -- was $100.  The cost for my well-being care: $0 (I didn't use the service but they still talked to me and spent time to check on me.  It's free either way.)

I would never ever be able to have that kind of high quality health care in Canada or the US even if I'm willing to pay an arm and a leg for the premium.  I don't know about other country's socialised medicine, but I would vouch for Italy's socialised health care without hesitation.

WoW great story and great experience. It must have vastly improved in Italy. Of course, I lived there long long ago. Not quite the time of blood letting as a cure. Then to I belonged to no medical program in Italy. And I was not saying the medical care was bad. They did a great job, albeit with some antiquated methods not used in America for a long time. And I am not trying to hold out America as the latest and greatest. Have seen many a doc there that you have to wonder how they got their license. And the cost of care is over the top outrageous. So bad that even if it was the best  medicine man could buy many can not buy it. In fact my parents were quite poor and my brother had terminal illness  and the hospitals kicked him out and would not care for him. Sent him home to die and be cared for by my mother. To think they take an oath. In my life the only medical dangers I have faced were in America. Yes, I am faced with many potential ones here. But I am alert to what they are doing or asking me to do all the time. And that alertness came from my American experiences. But I love VN and I love living here. My only intent in my initial comments was walk others through my experience Cho Ray. I had little clue what to expect once inside a public hospital here. Heretofore I have always used private hospitals. And in the future would probably still use private hospitals. And yes we get private suits that we pay for. But still no nursing care or bedside meals. Family needs to be their with you. I have often wondered how that would be received in America if family has to be there.

Ciambella wrote:

Diazo wrote:

I once lived in Italy and my son was admitted to the hospital. This was my first experience with socialized medicine. Went to his room and there was feces and urine all over his bed. He said he was starving. I learned only then they were not cared for unless family did it. Went another day and my son was not there. Where is my son I asked. In a coma they said . Doctor said why are you a doctor? Even their interns students are not allowed to speak or ask questions. The follow the doctor around like a gaggle of geese. Strange for us Westerners.

We lived in Città di Castello, Umbria from 2000 to 2007 and bought into the SSN (Servizio Sanitario Nazionale, the national health care).  Our annual premium was 7.5% of our taxable income in the States (we didn't have any income in Italy), which came to $550.  We didn't have to pay anything after that, and doctors made house calls twice a week.  At night and during holidays, a local (in the community) clinic was available 24 hrs.

My husband had a heart attack on Sunday morning, April 3, 2005 while at the public swimming pool with his friend who called for an ambulance (I was sleeping at home).  It was 8 minutes from the time the call was made to the time he was under care by a team of medical personnel (one cardiologist, one cardiothoracic surgeon, and a surgical nurse).  By the time I arrived at the hospital 45 minutes later, he was already flatlined 5 times.  The attending nurse said to him the last time he was brought back from death, "Siete come un gatto" (You're like a cat) for his using up 5 of his 9 lives. 

Due to the way his body reacted, the doctors asked my permission to transfer him to Silvestrini, a university hospital 55 km away in Perugia.  The cardiologist accompanied him in the ambulance.  At Silvestrini, they inserted 3 stents in his arteries.  He was kept in the hospital for 5 days, the first two days in a private room, the last 3 days in a double room.  His care was excellent, comparable to the care he received 7 years later in California when he had the second heart attack.  The cardiologist gave me his personal cell number so I could call anytime if I had questions (I did use it a few times.)

Italy didn't just care for the heart patient, they cared for the patient's family equally well.  For 12 months from the day of my husband's heart attack, my mental, emotional, and physical health were placed under a family care program with a psychologist, a nutritionist, a massage therapist, a social worker, and a gym.  They checked on me weekly to see if I needed help, if I had any problem caring for my husband, if I felt overwhelmed, etc. 

The cost for the entire year of his care -- doctors, hospital, specialists, medicine, tests, surgery, etc. -- was $100.  The cost for my well-being care: $0 (I didn't use the service but they still talked to me and spent time to check on me.  It's free either way.)

I would never ever be able to have that kind of high quality health care in Canada or the US even if I'm willing to pay an arm and a leg for the premium.  I don't know about other country's socialised medicine, but I would vouch for Italy's socialised health care without hesitation.

What a wonderful story,

I also worked 8 years in Italy on an oil rig up & down the Adriatic coast from Venice to Regio & Catania & did not have much exposure to the health care but the little I did was always good. I also found the Italians to be a very friendly, welcoming, caring & nice people to work with.  I was surprised & sorry to hear how Diazo's son was treated there & cant imagine that situation taking into account Ciambella's personal experience.  However I suspect where his sons treatment took place could be an influence as my experience from working there, the further South you went the  more lets say for want of a better word" backward" & poor life for the people became & maybe same with medical facilities & treatment.

We were actually at a hospital in Rome. As I recall it was called the Vatican hospital. Nothing wrong with the care from the doctors. My son had fallen and gotten two compound fractures of his leg. The “coma” was their was to say he was in surgery and under anesthetic. There and still here the an external frame to stabilize the break. But it healed beautifully. Just happened to be my first experience in a hospital that did not provide full care. And no one told us. In defense of them they may have thought it was that way everywhere. Once we caught on we just had someone in our family stay with him. My parents were making their first foreign trip. We were taking them around Europe in our caravan and the first stop was Rome. And our first nights stay in the campground he broke his leg....end of vacation.