Relationships

NashCat wrote:

Bar girls, coffee girls, grocery girls ... working Vietnamese girls. They all wants more money and a better life for themselves and their families, which means marrying and going abroad. What's so hard to understand? Hey! If you say u wants to stay in Vietnam only, they like u less ... but they still like u cause u are loaded with money. Love is 1%, 99% is Adam Smith at work. Just sayin' what lot of people are thinking ...

Partially you are right! We cannot blame all. I know personally some youths would like to do some dignified job and get money. All over the world there has both bad and good people, not only in Vietnam. I know so many of them are compel to do for money. Majority girls in the aforesaid categories are with a little education. Remaining with good education is the big problem. They are the embodiment of arrogance cover with an attractive smile to their 'prey'. The main problem is family and the situation they growing up. With regard to HCMC, majority girls are from other provinces. After they come here they get more courage to deviate their profession - money making, by all means. They don't need to care anyone. Parents are far away. Sometimes  they visit. Also parents belief that they send money by hard working. Even if they understand her later they keep silent because of poverty.

Ken Charma

lostsouls wrote:

thanhmai296 wrote:

almost people think that US is the best - political, social,legal, education, human, entertainment. That's why they wanna live in US.
Like me, I want my children can study and live in US to to get the best education, the best civilized society...
With an oriental views, I love my family and wanna stay in Vietnam to take care of them. However, we will consider what is better when we choose somewhere to live.

I beg to differ, Mai. Its true that all Vietnamese that I knew wants to get out of Vietnam & move to USA. But USA is not all that good as Vietnamese percieved.

Take Singapore for example. Singapore is a 1st world country & its still evolving. The pace is so fast that citizens couldnt keep up with probably the highest living standard in South East Asia. Many people are struggling to pay bills, loans even though they're average income earners. Many Singaporeans want out of the country & move to Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand. So do you think USA is in any way better?

As for childhood, this is my personal opinion. I grew up in a village in Malaysia & my chilhood was catching spiders, playing in the drains, rain, getting myself all dirty, etc. what do kids play nowadays? IPAD, IPhone, LAN games, things to do with technology. Wheres the childhood fun? These are what the kids in Singapore & around the world are doing.

What I can say is Singapore's kids for example going to school are facing ernomous stress. The education now is totally different from past decades. you dont get 1+1=2 type of teaching in elementary 1 anymore

I dont know if you understand what I've written.

I feel you, bro!

noah83 wrote:

lostsouls wrote:

thanhmai296 wrote:

almost people think that US is the best - political, social,legal, education, human, entertainment. That's why they wanna live in US.
Like me, I want my children can study and live in US to to get the best education, the best civilized society...
With an oriental views, I love my family and wanna stay in Vietnam to take care of them. However, we will consider what is better when we choose somewhere to live.

I beg to differ, Mai. Its true that all Vietnamese that I knew wants to get out of Vietnam & move to USA. But USA is not all that good as Vietnamese percieved.

Take Singapore for example. Singapore is a 1st world country & its still evolving. The pace is so fast that citizens couldnt keep up with probably the highest living standard in South East Asia. Many people are struggling to pay bills, loans even though they're average income earners. Many Singaporeans want out of the country & move to Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand. So do you think USA is in any way better?

As for childhood, this is my personal opinion. I grew up in a village in Malaysia & my chilhood was catching spiders, playing in the drains, rain, getting myself all dirty, etc. what do kids play nowadays? IPAD, IPhone, LAN games, things to do with technology. Wheres the childhood fun? These are what the kids in Singapore & around the world are doing.

What I can say is Singapore's kids for example going to school are facing ernomous stress. The education now is totally different from past decades. you dont get 1+1=2 type of teaching in elementary 1 anymore

I dont know if you understand what I've written.

I feel you, bro!

A fellow countrymen.

Hi Noah, Hows it going? Nice to meet you.

Vietnamese are basically looking to change their life around for the better and they figure getting out of Vietnam is the answer.

And some want to go to America knowing there's more money to be made in America and they'll work hard in America only to send all that money back to their family in Vietnam.

Update,
While I was traveling in Cambodia, my ex gf since me emails wanting to see me.  I ignored them.  Today she showed up at my place crying and wanting $5000 usd to start her life over.  That equals $850 usd per week we dated.  All I could do was laugh until she left.  I was laughing for a long time.  She did not want to leave empty handed.  But she did.  Anyone else have this experience?

If you want to read about bad experiences, look up Stickman Thailand. There is a variety of stories about guys getting fleeced, some deserve it, others dont. My advice is this, a pretty young girl is not interested in an old man, she is there for one thing and one thing only, to help herself and her family. I say that as a general rule and know of some relationships that have worked out with a large age gap. When I see old guys with gorgeous young women I can bet most of it is about finances. If your serious about finding a nice women and not just a showpiece, then maybe you can try an online dating service or ask your VN friends if they know anyone.

I have a lovely lady, she is 16 years younger then me, she has a high paying job, speaks English, excellent attitude and morals. She is always helping the less fortunate then herself.She doesnt want to move to Australia to live, as she loves her home country. She is an average looking lady, but its not her looks that I am attracted to, its her personality and attitude to life. She also has a great sense of humour, something not found a lot here.Just keep trying, but keep away from the ones that are more then half your age.

Fellas,

All you have to do is reverse the role.  Would you--the young and educated hunks, fall in love with them--the old bats, don't know their heads from their asses yet love to complain???  I don't think this is all that diffucult to figure out...

That could be applied to anyhing in life, role reversal.

Wild 1,
I remember three ladies when I was 21, they were my age and dating men in there 40's.  So it happens in USA also.  I have also dated a 25 year old German and a 28 year old Canadian while in Saigon.  Both times I was surprised they wanted intimacy. Granted they were here for only a few days. BTW, I am not a buff gym star.  Just an over weight 53 year old.  Don't know what they saw in me, but I enjoyed their company.  Back to my earlier post, has anyone else been asked for money when the relationship ended?  As for stickman, I read his blog and the readers submission.  I do not date bar girls or prostitutes.  Although I can understand why someone can be attracted to them.

my dad always said never marry a girl from a bar, marry a girl from a church.

And old french saying "only marry a girl whose house you can see from your church spire"

Go to church and pick a nice one!

As for vietnam vs Thailand so far I would say vietnam wins hands down. People are hardworking here and efficient. Many expats in Thailand started to look to vietnam and politically more stable. Thai women can be good, Thai Chinese the best, bur they want good looking young guys not old men. Isaanese girls (they are not Thai they speak Laos actually) are what 80% marry and the divorce rate is 80%.the embedded culture is that isaanese girls Thailand comes first man is ATM. I don't get that vibe here so far. Yes the man is expected to pay on dates etc but for the vast majority of women they are proud of their work ethic.

As for getting overseas as in Thailand it is often to get away from cultural pressures like dark skin is ugly. Dark isaneese girls want to be away from being lower than a dog in the pecking order (women are lower than men and dark skin bad). even a dark girl from issan well educated can't go anywhere. Top jobs go to Thai race not the others like kymers. So best to run away with a foreigner! And kids whiter....

lostsouls wrote:

I beg to differ, Mai. Its true that all Vietnamese that I knew wants to get out of Vietnam & move to USA. But USA is not all that good as Vietnamese percieved.

Take Singapore for example. Singapore is a 1st world country & its still evolving. The pace is so fast that citizens couldnt keep up with probably the highest living standard in South East Asia. Many people are struggling to pay bills, loans even though they're average income earners. Many Singaporeans want out of the country & move to Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand. So do you think USA is in any way better?

As for childhood, this is my personal opinion. I grew up in a village in Malaysia & my chilhood was catching spiders, playing in the drains, rain, getting myself all dirty, etc. what do kids play nowadays? IPAD, IPhone, LAN games, things to do with technology. Wheres the childhood fun? These are what the kids in Singapore & around the world are doing.

What I can say is Singapore's kids for example going to school are facing ernomous stress. The education now is totally different from past decades. you dont get 1+1=2 type of teaching in elementary 1 anymore

I dont know if you understand what I've written.

I totally agree with you that nowaday, kids have been growing up with IPAD, IP, games and so on. it means kids today have been heavily impacted by technology.
Children today are not nearly as familiar with the old fashioned ways to entertain themselves like older generations grew up with..
Other negative impacts caused by technology include less exercise, leading to obesity,
However, the effects of technology on children are complicated, with both benefits and costs.
Anyway, I personally think that the high-tech culture has changed children’s social relationships and also childhood as well :-) I miss my childhood so much..

I agree with the above - it will make a big problem I teach physics and students can't tie a knot! In chemistry they are useless and break everything. When I was a kid I stripped down car engines, tvs made radios, mini cars, airplanes and model trains, built fireworks including rockets and destroyed a greenhouse or two with some that went off target (never caught!) and basically can use my hands and brain creatively.

Also learnt resilience. Now teenagers have "depression" for nothing and get sad and angry if their latte is cold. And can't even use a screwdriver. I am observing backpackers now as on a break and they are all covered in designer backpacker gear and have phones, ipods and computers.

Better they never stuffed a tampon up their arse to stop the shits and headed off where hardly any white people been before with 10 bux and a dirty old bag for company. Or bought an old mini in india and drove back to Europe!

The world is doomed!!! Oh no my iPad battery is low where is my Prozac!!

funnybear92 wrote:

I totally agree with you that nowaday, kids have been growing up with IPAD, IP, games and so on. it means kids today have been heavily impacted by technology.
Children today are not nearly as familiar with the old fashioned ways to entertain themselves like older generations grew up with..
Other negative impacts caused by technology include less exercise, leading to obesity,
However, the effects of technology on children are complicated, with both benefits and costs.
Anyway, I personally think that the high-tech culture has changed children’s social relationships and also childhood as well :-) I miss my childhood so much..

Hahahah. At least someone agrees with me. I miss my chilhood too, Playing in the drains, catching spiders, fishes, playing marbles, explore the forest, etc. Singapore has changed so much that if kids wana experience that, they gotta go Malaysia, the nearest country.

I dont even own a handphone till 20 years old. Kids now own 1 at maybe 10 years old.

Too true, I watched a young couple come into a cafe last night, they didnt say a word to each other, they just got their phones out and started texting. Social skills are being lost big time. My friend who visits me has a 12 year old son, all he wants to do is play video games. I ask him if he wants to play outside, he says he loves video games and thats all he likes.They are becoming brain dead zombies, I hope it does change for the better soon.

Ready,
  I too considered Thailand. Just happened to stop off in VN before going to Thailand. I really liked VN. The heat is right up there, no doubt. I was in Nha Trang and the sea breeze really mitigated the heat. One think many do not consider when deciding between Vn and Thailand is the currency. VND is pegged to the dollar, the baht is not. Had you been in Thailand you would have lost about 25% of your purchasing power. Then to follow the crime against expats in Thailand verses VN. It seems they are going crazy in Thailand. If it were me I would try both on for size. You see the difference pretty fast I think.

lostsouls wrote:

funnybear92 wrote:

I totally agree with you that nowaday, kids have been growing up with IPAD, IP, games and so on. it means kids today have been heavily impacted by technology.
Children today are not nearly as familiar with the old fashioned ways to entertain themselves like older generations grew up with..
Other negative impacts caused by technology include less exercise, leading to obesity,
However, the effects of technology on children are complicated, with both benefits and costs.
Anyway, I personally think that the high-tech culture has changed children’s social relationships and also childhood as well :-) I miss my childhood so much..

Hahahah. At least someone agrees with me. I miss my chilhood too, Playing in the drains, catching spiders, fishes, playing marbles, explore the forest, etc. Singapore has changed so much that if kids wana experience that, they gotta go Malaysia, the nearest country.

I dont even own a handphone till 20 years old. Kids now own 1 at maybe 10 years old.

The parents should learn how to become an intelligent consumer in this technology world

I wonder, what would the cavemen--who grew up with sticks and stones--say about us?

Wild_1 wrote:

I wonder, what would the cavemen--who grew up with sticks and stones--say about us?

I recommend You should go back in time to ask them this question

Wild_1 wrote:

I wonder, what would the cavemen--who grew up with sticks and stones--say about us?

Ug ug grhbh gaa*!

or ask a Glaswegian they are unevolved cave men!!



*Glaswegian for did you spill my pint? (translates as lets fight)

I used to hate it when my parents told me I had it easier than them.  But I don't think I turned out half as bad.  So now, no one will see me on the Presumptuous Bandwagon.  What if they (the kids) will not need those skills, just as I didn't need those sticks and stones?

I think that deciding to marry someone because she is Vietnamese, is a horrible Idea. My wife of 40 years, who happens to be Vietnamese, would say that deciding to marry someone because he is an American is an equally horrible idea.

I'm old fashioned enough to believe in marrying a person, not a nationality. Yes, family is, and should be, part of the decision. Still, the idea is to marry someone that you will still be happy sharing a life with when you are decades older.

My 2 Xu

Bar girls they do have heart ! But their mercy not much same as human being...

Saigonmonkey ...I love so much your comments here... Most girls r work so hard untill 2-3 am in the morning and try to save money for their families.For their kids. Some girls working there bcos of their family is poor and their husband were bullshit. Some husband force them to work and give money to them. Some bcos their family has someone who is in sickness or living life time in hospital ... So they making money and crying inside their hearts. Nobody wanna give their body for other men who just looking for sex and talk bad about bar girls of course except addict drug girls they only working and earning money for buying drugs, or some girls they love sex so they work in bar to find forenger 's .....
But mostly 50% bcos of their family were in trouble and stuck with poor background, 20 % addict drug 20% loving money 5%sex demand and the 5%left is lazy and love earning easy money!
Anyways their heart there still.... If the right boy come they will go back to their original character ..loving and caring and honest. But the bad boys come ... They will treat true ways for ...bullshit men! What a bad boy expect a bar girl to treat as a educated person??????
Again: saigonmonkey you got a very gorgeous heart!

Not sure if you have too much of an idea about bar girls, most do it because its easy money.You say nobody wants to give their body for sex, well you must be going to different bars to the ones here in Vung Tau and Saigon.

colinoscapee wrote:

Not sure if you have too much of an idea about bar girls, most do it because its easy money.You say nobody wants to give their body for sex, well you must be going to different bars to the ones here in Vung Tau and Saigon.

Allow me to clarify the type of "bar" to which I was referring in my original post:

I was NOT referring to the type of "bars" you can find on the lower end of Hai Ba Trung street in district 1, most of which aren't really bars. Most foreigners refer to them as "monkey bars", because when you go in, the girl of your choice (actually one will probably choose you instead) hangs all over you like a monkey in a tree, and continuously asks you to buy her a lady drink, because that's part of her job - to make money for the bar by selling cheap (for the bar) drinks at a ridiculous profit.

Instead, I'm referring to the normal bars, like English pubs, where you go in, sit at an actual bar with your buddies, and there are numerous young ladies working behind the bar to serve you beers or mixed drinks. A great many of those girls fall into the categories ngaunhien states in her post.

I would also like to add that I'm always upfront when talking to these girls - letting them know upon introduction that I'm married. That probably gives me some "immunity" from any potential B.S. that some of you single guys may have encountered in the bars.

Ngaunhien: Thank you for your kind words.

I wasnt replying to you Saigonmonkey, I was replying to the post above me.I think more clarity by saying those types of bars you mentioned would of made it a lot clearer. When someone says a bar, it basically covers the whole spectrum.The girls who work in the English Pubs as you call them, would not in my opinion be referred to as bar girls, they would be barmaids, a totally different scene. Bar girls are what you described as those monkey bars, that is a what I would deem as being a bar girl.

colinoscapee wrote:

I wasnt replying to you Saigonmonkey.... Bar girls are what you described as those monkey bars, that is a what I would deem as being a bar girl.

I quoted you in my post because it reminded me that I did need to clarify my earlier one. Had already been thinking about that. If most people here think the same as you, it's no wonder I got some of the reactions I got from my original post. For the record, I and most of my friends refer to the girls working in the pubs as bar girls, and refer to the girls in the monkey bars as... whores. (Apologies to anyone here who is offended by that - just calling it as it is...)

Well clarity is a wonderful thing, without it posters would be assuming as to what you are saying.I generally dont go to bars very often, I tend to visit VN beer bars, less harrassment.The bars that I do go to know Im not interested in the girls and they leave me and my mates alone.

A relationship works when both parties are getting what they need.  Older men love the younger girls. They make them feel alive and young again.  Sex with a young girl is fun....its a dream come true. For the young girl its all about the money.  Money to send home. Money to live a nicer life.
Most old guys know that and are okay with it.  Its not about true love. 
If I come to Vietnam, I am going to find a young gorgeous girl.....I dont care where I find her.  I will treat her like a princess and give her money.  In exchange she will please me in every way.....and we both will be getting what we need.

@***Ready 2jump.

True !

Know what we are doing, understood where we are ... Know well what we get.
Avoiding hurt, bcos getting hurt is holy shit painful.
But I don't think all the guys who went to bars or going to the bars will get hurt,,, I guess the girls are!
Boys come and go pay and leave, girls taking and keep and remind...
Anyways....
I'm sure if this topic close some people here used to have bad thoughts about bar girls and prositutes they will be change their minds some how or in a way!

I don't know, but my guess is that there are guys who are just looking for sex. They pay the money and leave.  I think these would be the younger guys.
Then there is the guys who are looking for companionship....the older guys.  I would think the bar girls can tell the difference.
I am sure there are bar girls who are only in it for the money...they play everyone for whatever they can get. And there are the girls who want to find their sugar daddy.  One guy who will take care of them and take them off the street.  Do you agree?

Ready2jump wrote:

A relationship works when both parties are getting what they need.  Older men love the younger girls. They make them feel alive and young again.  Sex with a young girl is fun....its a dream come true. For the young girl its all about the money.  Money to send home. Money to live a nicer life.
Most old guys know that and are okay with it.  Its not about true love. 
If I come to Vietnam, I am going to find a young gorgeous girl.....I dont care where I find her.  I will treat her like a princess and give her money.  In exchange she will please me in every way.....and we both will be getting what we need.

The man speaks the truth .... what's love got to do with it?
I might add, the younger and good looking you are the less money you'll need to get the attractive girl

My first landlord in Vietnam was a former bar girl and we talked a lot on this subject. She came from the mekong delta area as a teen to work in a karaoke bar and later in a couple of the girlie bars around Vung Tau. She came here with a few friends who were recruited to work in these bars with promises of making money for their families and being able to meet foreign men who would love to take them back to their countries when they left. She said that before she came here the only education many of them had was in basic English. She also said that most of the girls don't know anything about what their new job entails until they are already separated from their home and family.
She got lucky and ended up married to a French ships captain and he sent her to school. Now they own 6 rent houses and she tries to hire mekong  girls to get them away from the bars.

I think thats pretty cool of her.....but in reality how many girls can she offer cleaning jobs for? And what kind of $$ does a house cleaner get?  I think if its $$ they need.....a sugar daddy is their best option.

ngaunhien wrote:

Bar girls they do have heart ! But their mercy not much same as human being...

Saigonmonkey ...I love so much your comments here... Most girls r work so hard untill 2-3 am in the morning and try to save money for their families.For their kids. Some girls working there bcos of their family is poor and their husband were bullshit. Some husband force them to work and give money to them. Some bcos their family has someone who is in sickness or living life time in hospital ... So they making money and crying inside their hearts. Nobody wanna give their body for other men who just looking for sex and talk bad about bar girls of course except addict drug girls they only working and earning money for buying drugs, or some girls they love sex so they work in bar to find forenger 's .....
But mostly 50% bcos of their family were in trouble and stuck with poor background, 20 % addict drug 20% loving money 5%sex demand and the 5%left is lazy and love earning easy money!
Anyways their heart there still.... If the right boy come they will go back to their original character ..loving and caring and honest. But the bad boys come ... They will treat true ways for ...bullshit men! What a bad boy expect a bar girl to treat as a educated person??????
Again: saigonmonkey you got a very gorgeous heart!

Very true........................

Just another update on my saga.  The ex sent me an email telling me it was her family pressuring for the marriage, visa to the USA and finally the $5000 to start her life over again.  She wrote that she just wants to be with me and take care of me.  I have not responded yet.  Since this has all started my feelings for her have changed.  Plus I have been dating others, nothing serious.  Anyone else had this experience?

yolandyoland2 wrote:

it is all depends what you want, to find a good girl then don't look in bars, specially not the ones who are working there. coffee shops is a better option, about money, think this is the same as every where else in the world. as they say no money no honey but all depends on the girl. off course most vn women like to be married to an expat of overseas guy due to better way of living then what they have here, the respect and treatment compare to a vn guy. help with their family etc what is normal in VN culture, you not only marry your wife but also marry her family. if you can accept this then you can make a change in your relationship. Many think that life overseas is so much better and dont appreciate what they have got here. they have no idea the cost of living overseas when they found out most aare happy to stay here. specially living  overseas with no help of their family to raise kids or help in the house etc. good luck to find the right one and stop looking at a bar or karaoke place to find the right one.

Hi Guy, i read ur post i know u so nice. u can understand about all of VN n u have a knonleged so well, right or not about Vietnamese. Nice to meet u!

Jenny Tu wrote:

Hi Guy, i read ur post i know u so nice. u can understand about all of VN n u have a knonleged so well, right or not about Vietnamese. Nice to meet u!

I don't think it's 'understand about all of VN' but expats have experienced a lot of different cultures when they've travelled around the world. You learn a great deal when you step outside your comfort zone.

I have been in Veit Nam 15 months now. I will be upfront with you. Come visit Veit Nam, Cambodia, Thailand Saigon and Bangkok are the same. Too many people to rip you off. Also people in saigon are RUDE. (will run you over on sidewalk with motorbike. Travel smaller cities in Thailand. I was in the town of the River Kwai. Remember The Bridge over the River Kwai? People very friendy. Also Seam Reap is Very Nice and cheap. People friendy. Take your time before you settle. REMEMBER pretty girls are a dime a dozen, SMART girls are hard to find. Also Nha Trang veit nam is a nice place but they are having trouble with the Russians and crime. Good Luck

ancientpathos wrote:

Just another update on my saga.  The ex sent me an email telling me it was her family pressuring for the marriage, visa to the USA and finally the $5000 to start her life over again.  She wrote that she just wants to be with me and take care of me.  I have not responded yet.  Since this has all started my feelings for her have changed.  Plus I have been dating others, nothing serious.  Anyone else had this experience?

Run.

Just. Run.

If you must, give her a firm No with an apology, but make that the last you deal with that gal.

Been reading too many horror stories for prolonged contact to even remotely sound like a good idea.