Some Visa Extensions Discontinued

Ciambella wrote:

Ilegitimis Non Carborere wrote:

does this only apply to Nha Trang, or Da Nang, Vung Tau, etc?

Not in Vung Tau.  Properties in Vung Tau are still expensive; small scale constructions (homes and low-rise buildings) are still going strong; and even though there are many empty places, rental price (to foreigners) is still not much lower than pre-Covid.

Gotta say, same here Tan Phu Celadon City HCMC, dont see any pressure for rent price or selling price reductions. In fact some of the apartments I see recently for sale the prices here have gone up over the 6 months I have been here. Not to say thats the case everywhere & how long it will last & if things get worse it could change.
Stating the obvious I suppose, Vung Tau being predominantly a Vietnamese holiday place for people from HCMC area & Nha Trang being predominantly foreign tourists will have an influence on the property market.
I inquired recently about building land that was advertised for sale just outside Bao Loc & was in shock at the prices & out of about 20 plots only 2 were left.

goodolboy wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

Ilegitimis Non Carborere wrote:

does this only apply to Nha Trang, or Da Nang, Vung Tau, etc?

Not in Vung Tau.  Properties in Vung Tau are still expensive; small scale constructions (homes and low-rise buildings) are still going strong; and even though there are many empty places, rental price (to foreigners) is still not much lower than pre-Covid.

Gotta say, same here Tan Phu Celadon City HCMC, dont see any pressure for rent price or selling price reductions. In fact some of the apartments I see recently for sale the prices here have gone up over the 6 months I have been here. Not to say thats the case everywhere & how long it will last & if things get worse it could change.
...

Apartment rental prices in Tropic Garden (Thao Dien area) has gone down.

goodolboy wrote:

I inquired recently about building land that was advertised for sale just outside Bao Loc & was in shock at the prices & out of about 20 plots only 2 were left.

Bao Loc is the last property hot spot.  My nephew bought a plot there  5 months ago during a recon trip with his friends.  Each person in his group bought at least one plot; some of them bought 2 or 3.  Two months ago, he and his wife went back with the intention of buying another plot but there wasn't anything left to buy, not anywhere in or out of the city.

Ciambella wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

I inquired recently about building land that was advertised for sale just outside Bao Loc & was in shock at the prices & out of about 20 plots only 2 were left.

Bao Loc is the last property hot spot.  My nephew bought a plot there  5 months ago during a recon trip with his friends.  Each person in his group bought at least one plot; some of them bought 2 or 3.  Two months ago, he and his wife went back with the intention of buying another plot but there wasn't anything left to buy, not anywhere in or out of the city.

& all on the back of the new highway I am told.

But actually Bao Loc & especially the surrounding area is quite a nice place to be. Usually stop off for a coffee beside the "lake" in Bao Loc city but the smell and the experience can be lets say interesting.
The plots I looked at were like postage stamps & good for holiday rentals I think but god help you if your neighbor decides to fire up the Karaoke of a night time or decides that over the fence your garden is their trash tip when you are not there .

HenryJo wrote:

goodolboy wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

Not in Vung Tau.  Properties in Vung Tau are still expensive; small scale constructions (homes and low-rise buildings) are still going strong; and even though there are many empty places, rental price (to foreigners) is still not much lower than pre-Covid.

Gotta say, same here Tan Phu Celadon City HCMC, dont see any pressure for rent price or selling price reductions. In fact some of the apartments I see recently for sale the prices here have gone up over the 6 months I have been here. Not to say thats the case everywhere & how long it will last & if things get worse it could change.
...

Apartment rental prices in Tropic Garden (Thao Dien area) has gone down.

Some rents here in Vung Tau have dropped by 30%. The owners who use VN economics have raised their rents, but cant get bums on seats. My landlady raised our rent by 30%, luckily we will be moving in a few months.

Those landlords who want an increase in the current situation are driven by greed, they may succeed if a few selected tenants are locked in and unable to find alternatives.

Overall, nothing will defeat the law of gravity, prices will go down in the current climate....

colinoscapee wrote:

Some rents here in Vung Tau have dropped by 30%. The owners who use VN economics have raised their rents, but cant get bums on seats. My landlady raised our rent by 30%, luckily we will be moving in a few months.

This is not an official fact although I got it from an official source:  A very large percentage of properties in VT (not counting hotels and buildings owned by corporations) do not have mortgage, therefore, the slow economy doesn't affect most private landlords. 

About 80% of VT residents are Northerners; many of them with money and connections tied to Hanoi.  The conclusion is obvious.

Ciambella wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Some rents here in Vung Tau have dropped by 30%. The owners who use VN economics have raised their rents, but cant get bums on seats. My landlady raised our rent by 30%, luckily we will be moving in a few months.

This is not an official fact although I got it from an official source:  A very large percentage of properties in VT (not counting hotels and buildings owned by corporations) do not have mortgage, therefore, the slow economy doesn't affect most private landlords. 

About 80% of VT residents are Northerners; many of them with money and connections tied to Hanoi.  The conclusion is obvious.

This is where the differences in mentality come into play.  Here, many landlords would rather leave a property vacant than drop the rent. I have various properties in my home country that I rent out, I always keep the rent below the market rates and I have tenants that stay long term due to this.

My current landlady has more money than sense, she thinks in this climate her houses are worth 30% more now than 6-months ago, she is in for a big shock when we move out.

I have asked ADMIN to move this thread to:

Antarctica > Off Topic

colinoscapee wrote:

I think this post also needs to be put onto the Antartica thread!

Agreed    At least the discussion on rents bears a real relationship to the topic of when and if people will be leaving the country.

THIGV wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

I think this post also needs to be put onto the Antartica thread!

Agreed    At least the discussion on rents bears a real relationship to the topic of when and if people will be leaving the country.

You don't think the current situation is causing some people to get their "bowels in an uproar"?

As the OP, I feel this subject is more on-topic than PP's off-topic jag which certainly could have been a new thread.

But I appreciate Steve's sense of humor.

Ciambella wrote:

This is not an official fact although I got it from an official source:  A very large percentage of properties in VT (not counting hotels and buildings owned by corporations) do not have mortgage, therefore, the slow economy doesn't affect most private landlords.

Very accurate Mrs. C, but not only in Vung Tau but all over Vietnam. Vietnamese culture tend to buy real estate with all cash (equity). There are some that take bank loans (leverage) because they don?t have the cash up front but do have good jobs to qualify and service the loan. Also interest rates is very high here. Bottom line, the Vietnamese real market is more resilient to a downturn because there is not much debt for banks to foreclose on while the owner who bought with all cash will hold on and ride out the market. In order for there to be a bubble there needs to be high leverage in the market place. Vietnam is not highly levered. Residents of developed countries tend to leverage more since the interest rates is low and are offered long term loans. The United States is a good example. All Americans buy real estate on bank loans that is amortized over 30 years. That?s the best deal in the world. You would be foolish not to leverage in the states. The only people that buy all cash in the states are overseas foreigners, mainly Chinese, since foreigners cannot obtain financing.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

As the OP, I feel this subject is more on-topic than PP's off-topic jag ....

Where is it written that the OP gets special privileges?  Writing new rules again?

CoderX10:  Interesting observations on Vietnamese real estate debt, or lack of it.  Instinctualy, I feel that you are correct.  However we often hear about banks being in trouble with non-performing loans.  Is this mostly all business debt?  I am not saying this to challenge you, but do you have statistics?  They could be interesting.

THIGV wrote:

"...the OP gets special privileges..."

Since you wrote it, who am I to argue?

THIGV wrote:

CoderX10:  Interesting observations on Vietnamese real estate debt, or lack of it.  Instinctualy, I feel that you are correct.  However we often hear about banks being in trouble with non-performing loans.  Is this mostly all business debt?  I am not saying this to challenge you, but do you have statistics?  They could be interesting.

I don?t have official stats and that information from banks is usually confidential. Just my observation and my experience in real estate here and abroad. Bad debt or non performing loans is part of the banking business and it can be written off to a certain extent. All banks make money off providing loans and making money off the interest, and the risk for them is the borrower not performing, hence qualifying the borrower is very important. Also, just go into any notary office here in Vietnam, and you can easily see who?s buying and selling real estate by the piles and piles of cash that they stack on the table. It?s gotten better and people are moving towards wire transfer, but cash is still king. I bought a piece of land last week, and the seller was adamant I pay in cash. I told him I prefer to wire transfer as it?s risky for me to be lugging it around town and into the notary. He said he?s also buying land with the proceeds and that seller wants cash, so he wanted cash from me.

Also, it?s hard to borrow money for raw land as there is no income generated in place to offset the monthly payment. Most Vietnamese prefer to buy raw land and build on it as construction is super cheap.

A common strategy for seasoned Vietnamese real estate investors is they borrow on collateral such as providing red or pink books and obtaining up to 70% loan to value. They take that money and go buy more land since they believe appreciation in land will outpace the interest rate they are paying. To me that?s risky, one slip up and the whole chain collapse.

CoderX10 wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

This is not an official fact although I got it from an official source:  A very large percentage of properties in VT (not counting hotels and buildings owned by corporations) do not have mortgage, therefore, the slow economy doesn't affect most private landlords.

Very accurate Mrs. C, but not only in Vung Tau but all over Vietnam. Vietnamese culture tend to buy real estate with all cash (equity). There are some that take bank loans (leverage) because they don?t have the cash up front but do have good jobs to qualify and service the loan. Also interest rates is very high here. Bottom line, the Vietnamese real market is more resilient to a downturn because there is not much debt for banks to foreclose on while the owner who bought with all cash will hold on and ride out the market. In order for there to be a bubble there needs to be high leverage in the market place. Vietnam is not highly levered. Residents of developed countries tend to leverage more since the interest rates is low and are offered long term loans. The United States is a good example. All Americans buy real estate on bank loans that is amortized over 30 years. That?s the best deal in the world. You would be foolish not to leverage in the states. The only people that buy all cash in the states are overseas foreigners, mainly Chinese, since foreigners cannot obtain financing.

but US annual prop taxes are high too right ...
Thailand n China have zero annual prop taxes
The Chinese buy cos the present property restrictions allow them to own only 2 units per person, bank interest rates are low too so there is no avenue to get a meaningful return for $ in the face of rising inflation ...
You are truly blessed to have a trusted local partner that allows you to safely invest in VN land

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Don't trust ME on this.

Contact your own visa agent to discover IF:

...you are in Vietnam from ANY country--on a category DN business visa--and you don't have a legitimate employer with a work permit--you will not be able to do any more 3-month extensions.

Or,

...you entered the country on a tourist visa on or after March 1st, 2020, your free automatic extension for this month (May, 2021) will be your final free automatic extension.

To quote my visa agent:

"It is said that automatic extension is ended this month and that all foreigners must find a way to leave Vietnam".

She also said this is brand new news, as just last week she was able to process 3 month extensions of business visas without a work permit.

She also said it's possible to get a paid 1-month extension of both types of visas, to allow for making plans to depart the county.

Don't shoot the messenger.

If you have proof that my agent is incorrect, by all means, please correct me with official data.

Never say never my friend, there is always a "grey area" in everything   ...  ha

zest123 wrote:

Thailand n China have zero annual prop taxes

Thailand does have property tax: 

"In March 2019, the Thai government introduced the new Land and Building Tax Act B.E. 2562, which has been in effect since January 1, 2020.

The Act obligates individuals, corporate entities, or any beneficiaries of land or buildings, to pay land and building tax.  The tax rates on properties were previously assessed on an income-based method. The Act replaces this method with an assessment based on the appraised value, as determined under the current Land Code."

Technically, China doesn't have property tax because land is owned by the government.  However, in place of property tax, there are farmland occupation tax, urban land-use tax, land value-added tax, deed tax, etc,, all tied to the value of the property.

This brief exchange on foreign property tax is way off topic thus it should end here.

Ciambella wrote:

zest123 wrote:

Thailand n China have zero annual prop taxes

Thailand does have property tax: 

"In March 2019, the Thai government introduced the new Land and Building Tax Act B.E. 2562, which has been in effect since January 1, 2020.

The Act obligates individuals, corporate entities, or any beneficiaries of land or buildings, to pay land and building tax.  The tax rates on properties were previously assessed on an income-based method. The Act replaces this method with an assessment based on the appraised value, as determined under the current Land Code."

Technically, China doesn't have property tax because land is owned by the government.  However, in place of property tax, there are farmland occupation tax, urban land-use tax, land value-added tax, deed tax, etc,, all tied to the value of the property.

yes, you are right, but the annual property tax is only for people who own single properties exceeding 50 mil bht so most people r not affected , n u bet there are people who own multiple properties each valued below 50 mil bht who r not paying taxes ..
There is a 12.5% tax on rental proceeds for people who rent out prop though many owners will avoid reporting ..
more infor here ..
https://www.thailand-property.com/blog/ … -need-know

I had owned multiple properties in China for years n hv not paid a cent in annual taxes but the tax law may come in in a few years time, but it would start at very low levels n will be trialed in the 1st tier cities first to try not to create resentment among the masses ...

Ontheroad57 wrote:

THIGV wrote:

paulmsn wrote:

"...If you are working here, you should do work permit ASAP to make sure that can stay here longer. Otherwise, must leave VN soon".

It seems like an odd time to do so, considering COVID, but could this be the hidden agenda?  We often see assertions that well over half of English teachers in the country don't bother to or can't get work permits.  Maybe this could be a way to sort that out, or at least kill two birds with one stone while getting rid of retirees unwanted by the government.

I don?t ?teach? or need to work here, but I recently read an article that there?s over 500 unlicensed English schools in Saigon alone.   And that?s only what they could find.

A lot of the ?teachers? that work there likely don?t have work permits( which the school has to organise)  & are paid under the table.
The schools likely don?t pay Tax either.   

And guess who operate these schools......usually the wives of cops & relatives of Govt staff.  It?s a good side hustle $$$ for them.   When the throw the ?teachers? out , the school will either close or need to actually employ Qualified staff legally , pay tax & comply with all the red tape.    Then you?ve got the Visa agent ?bag men? not meeting Immigration staff in Cafes to share the cash from inflated visa fees.

Let?s see what happens......do they keep taking the black money , or clean up their act.

Coffee money is the root of the problems here.   You can do anything you like provided you grease some palms.  It works well until the next bloke up the ladder says you can?t........then sticks his hand out for cash?

Problem is....when you pay ?overs? to a Visa agent ,who we assume is Govt licensed , and they tell you everything?s in order with your Visa ......and later on ,,,? Houston we have a problem? ?.  You can?t believe anyone here , we all know that , the world knows that .   VN has a bad reputation for a reason & given the mindset here , sadly I can?t see that ever changing.    I often wonder what future awaits the young kids here . 

However , as a self funded retiree It?s a good life , I enjoy it here, BUT  you?ve got to have a plan B.   I?ve lived here on a very small percentage of my foreign income for over 10 years.   It?s been great, since you can?t OWN anything here , it?s hard to spend money.   Apart from an old bike to get around on , I don?t buy anything that won?t fit in a suitcase because you never know when it?s time to go.   I spend more on flights & hotels on my  90 day VISA runs , than I do actually living here.   But for 15 months I?ve been sitting on the beach waiting for travel to resume.....saved some cash there eh..?

Provided you accept the uncertain tenure of being here & enjoy it while it lasts & have a plan B , alls good. 

Just for good measure....have a plan C as well.

wow, u r one lucky dude not to have your post taken off by the internet police  on the grounds of political sensitivity ...
i posted something vaguely probing along the same theme n was immediately silenced by this guy from the Ocean  who said i ran the risk of having the site closed ...  ha

I have a gig that can allow me to work legally in VN for a few years on an expert visa but will leave me in limbo thereafter as i do not intend to many anyone in VN so will have no legal status to stay there.
Am looking to relocate to a place that i can live in for the long term without any hassles, do you think its better for me to not waste time in VN n  to go straight to Thailand to live on the Thai retirement which i can easily get now ..
Appreciate your feedback, thanks

[Post under review]

CoderX10 wrote:

THIGV wrote:

CoderX10:  .... Also, just go into any notary office here in Vietnam, and you can easily see who?s buying and selling real estate by the piles and piles of cash that they stack on the table. It?s gotten better and people are moving towards wire transfer, but cash is still king. I bought a piece of land last week, and the seller was adamant I pay in cash. I told him I prefer to wire transfer as it?s risky for me to be lugging it around town and into the notary. He said he?s also buying land with the proceeds and that seller wants cash, so he wanted cash from me.
...

I happen to read some articles recently that cash AND gold is king. Still! In the 21st century here in Vietnam. Some paying half cash and half gold.

Any truth in this? ...can post links to the sources if necessary.

Porkypig wrote:

The moral of the story is, do not break the laws. Once you get on the wrong side of the laws, coffee money may only buy you extra time, no guarantee you will get off eventually so good luck.

Thanks for the timely reminder n reinforcement, will definitely keep it in mind ...

HenryJo wrote:

I happen to read some articles recently that cash AND gold is king. Still! In the 21st century here in Vietnam. Some paying half cash and half gold.

Any truth in this? ...can post links to the sources if necessary.

It was more prevalent in the past where real estate was purchase with all gold or a combo of gold and cash. You can still negotiate gold into purchases today but I don't.

Zest123 - As indicated in the moderator's notification to you some days ago,  please refrain from using SMS language because: 1/ it's a violation of Forum Code of Conduct, and 2/ it creates difficulty for other members to understand your posts.

I haven't heard from my agent, and I'm taking that as a sign that my visa extension is in process and will likely go through.  I guess I will know next week.

This has been quite a trying experience, and given the recent explosion of COVID-19 cases, maybe I should have just left.  Of course, with no taxi service, how would I have gotten to the airport?

paulmsn wrote:

This has been quite a trying experience, and given the recent explosion of COVID-19 cases, maybe I should have just left.  Of course, with no taxi service, how would I have gotten to the airport?

All the unemployed Grab and Be 4-wheel drivers (2-wheels are still allowed to operate) will be very happy to take you to the airport since the fare will be theirs to keep in full.  Many expats keep one or two drivers' personal contact info to call when the need arises (such as during these time).  If you've never adopted that practice, I'm sure your landlord would be able to find you a driver easily.

[Post under review]

HenryJo wrote:

If you had decided to leave, what would you have done with your stuff (as your friends house won't be completed until September or later)

Leave them at place you are at now and continue to pay rent there with no clue when you'll be able to come back?

She offered to put them in her and her friend's small apartments (hers is just a room with a loft), but since they will apparently continue the lockdown in her neighborhood, I don't think that would have worked.  I would have had to rent storage space until her house is ready.  But that decision is put off for one more month.

When I told him of this new difficulty, my landlord was not going to give me back my two month's deposit -- he's a bit money hungry -- so I guess I would have been able to keep the apartment for two more months, but I wouldn't want my friend to have to move all my stuff after I'm gone, although she offered.

HenryJo wrote:

paulmsn wrote:

I haven't heard from my agent, and I'm taking that as a sign that my visa extension is in process and will likely go through.  I guess I will know next week.

This has been quite a trying experience, and given the recent explosion of COVID-19 cases, maybe I should have just left.  Of course, with no taxi service, how would I have gotten to the airport?

If you had decided to leave, what would you have done with your stuff (as your friends house won't be completed until September or later)

Leave them at place you are at now and continue to pay rent there with no clue when you'll be able to come back?

Come back when? 2022, 2023, 2024?

I will be coming back as soon as the Vietnamese government allows it, but I won't be living here anymore, just visiting for a month or two occasionally.  I will live in Arizona, although the increasing heat there worries me.

paulmsn wrote:

I will be coming back as soon as the Vietnamese government allows it, but I won't be living here anymore, just visiting for a month or two occasionally.  I will live in Arizona, although the increasing heat there worries me.

Why not move around from country to country if you can afford it.

colinoscapee wrote:

Why not move around from country to country if you can afford it.

I will  see other countries until I can't travel anymore, but because I am getting older, I want a US home base for health reasons, and Arizona will be it.  I do have friends in Vietnam who I will want to see, so I plan on getting back here often.

Porkypig wrote:

Those landlords who want an increase in the current situation are driven by greed, they may succeed if a few selected tenants are locked in and unable to find alternatives.

Overall, nothing will defeat the law of gravity, prices will go down in the current climate....

We got a 7mill discount on a 20 mill rent,,,,

Andybris2020 wrote:

Porkypig wrote:

Those landlords who want an increase in the current situation are driven by greed, they may succeed if a few selected tenants are locked in and unable to find alternatives.

Overall, nothing will defeat the law of gravity, prices will go down in the current climate....

We got a 7mill discount on a 20 mill rent,,,,

We tried to explain to our landlady that rents have dropped, she instead raised it 25%.

Andybris2020 wrote:

Porkypig wrote:

Those landlords who want an increase in the current situation are driven by greed, they may succeed if a few selected tenants are locked in and unable to find alternatives.

Overall, nothing will defeat the law of gravity, prices will go down in the current climate....

We got a 7mill discount on a 20 mill rent,,,,

Thats a pretty good deal that!!

was your lease up for renewal, or did you ask the landlord for a discount or did the landlord volunteer the rent  price drop?

goodolboy wrote:

Andybris2020 wrote:

Porkypig wrote:

Those landlords who want an increase in the current situation are driven by greed, they may succeed if a few selected tenants are locked in and unable to find alternatives.

Overall, nothing will defeat the law of gravity, prices will go down in the current climate....

We got a 7mill discount on a 20 mill rent,,,,

Thats a pretty good deal that!!

was your lease up for renewal, or did you ask the landlord for a discount or did the landlord volunteer the rent  price drop?

we sell coffee/milktea out ground floor, the schools closed and covid restrictions shut us down to 25% of normal takings we told landlady we will have to move, she said she didnt want building empty and how much were we going to pay in new place,, she dropped it to the same,,, that was end last month, 2 days ago next door had a fire,,, we managed to save our roof floor going up and spreading to rest of building,,, so lucky it wasnt empty,,,,, I have now installed smoke alarms throughout and she is very happy we are still here.

Goodolboy,,, I sent you a PM - link to video of the fire

Andybris2020 wrote:

2 days ago next door had a fire,,, we managed to save our roof floor going up and spreading to rest of building,,, so lucky it wasnt empty,,,,, I have now installed smoke alarms throughout and she is very happy we are still here.

Goodolboy,,, I sent you a PM - link to video of the fire

You are a very lucky couple.  The typical Vietnamese urban "tube house" design is a death trap with no rear exits and no fire escapes.  To make matters worse, most people use padlocks on the front gates which need a key to open and likely fumble over while the flames approach or smoke dulls your mind.   Hopefully your neighbors did not die. 

Is the video of the fire a public link?