Foreign Banks Fleeing Viet Nam

vndreamer wrote:

"Governments cannot afford to let systemically relevant institutions go bankrupt. That is why they are rescued or taken over by the state."

Either you don't understand how it works or you need to do some research and stop believing the lies pushed by corrupt governments.  No, governments do not have to save any bank or company, it is and was planned that way since the dawn of the creation of central banks by the Rothschilds centuries ago.  The politicians agreed to take peoples tax dollars and give to these criminals when they fail and in return, they retain power and money, period.  No government saves any institution, that is a lie. 

Lehman brothers folded, Bear Stearns folded and other major banks and companies have failed throughout history.  If you think the U.S. government is not corrupt, you have a lot of research to do.

@vdreamer

I also wrote in the same post:
“Times have changed. The central banks intervene differently than in the past.”

Lehman Brothers was not “Too big to fail”.
But as a reminder to you, In the course of the financial market crisis 2008, some banks and insurance companies have been rescued by the US government and the Fed.
https://www.thebalance.com/too-big-to-fail-3305617
I cannot believe you forgot that really.

Also in my home country, the bank UBS was rescued by the central bank because UBS was too systemically relevant for my home country.
By the way, by taking over toxic UBS securities in 2008, the Swiss Central Bank has finally made a profit, as a central bank (unlike a normal bank) has an infinite amount of time.

You should not always look for the mistakes only at the financial institutions, but start in front of your own house.
Without the greedy average citizen who buys everything that should bring him fast money (without needing his brain), most economic crises would not have happened.
Most people who lose money are to blame themselves.
They invest too risky without understanding it and they live beyond their financial means.
Even today, there are still no huge profits without risk.

In my home country it is not so easy to take a new mortgage on a house to buy a luxury car. Or the bank will check whether the mortgage is affordable (the debt may not exceed 1/3 of the income at 5% mortgage interest rate).
It is really deplorable that institutions such as banks must take over the education of adults in order to protect themselves and others.

vndreamer wrote:

"Governments cannot afford to let systemically relevant institutions go bankrupt. That is why they are rescued or taken over by the state."

Either you don't understand how it works or you need to do some research and stop believing the lies pushed by corrupt governments.  No, governments do not have to save any bank or company, it is and was planned that way since the dawn of the creation of central banks by the Rothschilds centuries ago.  The politicians agreed to take peoples tax dollars and give to these criminals when they fail and in return, they retain power and money, period.  No government saves any institution, that is a lie. 

Lehman brothers folded, Bear Stearns folded and other major banks and companies have failed throughout history.  If you think the U.S. government is not corrupt, you have a lot of research to do.

Please explain to me how it works then?
What would happen if say Bank of America, Wells Fargo or CitiBank went bankrupt? Do you think there would only be limited economic impact and life would continue as beofre? What would happen to the FDIC, would they let that go under too or if not how much would they be on the hook for?  Do you think the sitting government would be re-elected in such a scenario?

I'm giving you examples that you may be more familiar with, but the same applies to any other country. How do you think big state-owned banks fit into this picture?

Providing some vague reference to the Rothschilds, and why not the Venetian bankers before them, does little to explain your opinion in the current far-more banked and interdependent (financial) world.

Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns were hardly big systemic banks like say BoA, WFC or Citibank, but we all know what chain reaction their failure (particularly Lehman Brothers) set off. I wonder if the authorities ended up regretting their (in)actions.  https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/30/busi … r-was.html
It should be noted that Citibank and BoA both received bailout funds to keep them afloat. In the UK, RBS was more or less nationalised, and Lloyds also ended up being majority government-owned through a bailout.

In my opinion a few minor banks will always be allowed to fail in a crisis, either through lack of interest in saving them, inaction or to serve as a warning. But no government is interested in a full-scale financial and economic (and probably social too) meltdown on their watch. It's not in anyone's interest and frankly it's the the remit of governments to prevent such things. Of course corruption exists in governments the world over, and banks are hardly clean and corruption-free, but that's another discussion.

But please explain how this analysis is wrong!?

"But please explain how this analysis is wrong!?"

..and whom would you believe..?   (BE a LIE For..?)  given the 'normalcy bias'
built into every human being?    (Please?)  Try to connect-the-dots for your self.

(Heavy Hint:)  EVERY fiat system of every currency has failed in recorded his story.

The current 'credit' system will implode.  Not if; only when.   Wait if you wish...

The big money is already heading for the exits, so (as most people agree) diversify
by keeping (your values) of cash, gold, assets (etc) according to YOUR thoughts of
personal security.

Fools are full of Answers: The Wise full of Questions  - Socrates

Bazza139 wrote:

"But please explain how this analysis is wrong!?"

..and whom would you believe..?   (BE a LIE For..?)  given the 'normalcy bias'
built into every human being?    (Please?)  Try to connect-the-dots for your self.

(Heavy Hint:)  EVERY fiat system of every currency has failed in recorded his story.

The current 'credit' system will implode.  Not if; only when.   Wait if you wish...

The big money is already heading for the exits, so (as most people agree) diversify
by keeping (your values) of cash, gold, assets (etc) according to YOUR thoughts of
personal security.

Fools are full of Answers: The Wise full of Questions  - Socrates

This is rather cryptic, slightly off-topic and in my humble opinion not a very useful contribution to the discussion.

>..and whom would you believe..?   (BE a LIE For..?)  given the 'normalcy bias'
>built into every human being?    (Please?)  Try to connect-the-dots for your self.
Such a nugget of wisdom, please try to connect the dots for yourself... Thanks a million for such great insight.

> (Heavy Hint:)  EVERY fiat system of every currency has failed in recorded his story.
While no government-mandated currency will be eternal as governments, countries and systems change, not to mention programmed monetary erosion and the resultant necessity for the occasional rebasing (overdue in Vietnam!), your statement is quite frankly incorrect. If every fiat currency had failed in recorded history then what are you using to pay for things every day?

> The current 'credit' system will implode.  Not if; only when.   Wait if you wish...
Another great well-developed argument.

>The big money is already heading for the exits, so (as most people agree) diversify
>by keeping (your values) of cash, gold, assets (etc) according to YOUR thoughts of
>personal security.
Excuse my ignorance, but what does "the big money is already heading for the exits" mean? What is "big money"? And how does it "head for the exits"? And what are those "exits"?  And what hard and verifiable data is that based on?  I guess the "big money" must still be "heading to" as opposed to having gone through, the exits as there seems to be plenty of money around still  https://data.oecd.org/money/broad-money-m3.htm
I think we can agree on diversification of assets and generally that holding cash is not a way to get rich.

As an alternative scenario to the 'credit system will implode' I would suggest that debts may also be reduced through monetary erosion, or inflated away, as well as repaid. Of course there will always be defaults as well, it is part of the system.

Bazza139 wrote:

Fools are full of Answers: The Wise full of Questions  - Socrates

You ask 2 questions and try to answer 4 (advice is also answers). 

Bazza139 wrote:

The current 'credit' system will implode.  Not if; only when.   Wait if you wish...

Conspiracy theorists and fortunetellers have predicted the total collapse of the economy and the end of the world many times.
If it happens at some point, we've been warned beforehand by you. Thank you very much for that.

PS:
There are even people who are afraid of technological singularity.

One thing for sure is that VN Gov won't let the banking system collapse for whatever reasons and causes as banks and other financial institutions are blood vessels of the economy. In the worst case (hopefully it would never happen), they will do similar to what Obama Administration did to 'bail out' American economy. As we are not in a vantage point, let's wait and see how the situation will prevail 

jonasp wrote:

Bazza139 wrote:

"But please explain how this analysis is wrong!?"

..and whom would you believe..?   (BE a LIE For..?)  given the 'normalcy bias'
built into every human being?    (Please?)  Try to connect-the-dots for your self.

(Heavy Hint:)  EVERY fiat system of every currency has failed in recorded his story.

The current 'credit' system will implode.  Not if; only when.   Wait if you wish...

The big money is already heading for the exits, so (as most people agree) diversify
by keeping (your values) of cash, gold, assets (etc) according to YOUR thoughts of
personal security.

Fools are full of Answers: The Wise full of Questions  - Socrates

This is rather cryptic, slightly off-topic and in my humble opinion not a very useful contribution to the discussion.

>..and whom would you believe..?   (BE a LIE For..?)  given the 'normalcy bias'
>built into every human being?    (Please?)  Try to connect-the-dots for your self.
Such a nugget of wisdom, please try to connect the dots for yourself... Thanks a million for such great insight.

> (Heavy Hint:)  EVERY fiat system of every currency has failed in recorded his story.
While no government-mandated currency will be eternal as governments, countries and systems change, not to mention programmed monetary erosion and the resultant necessity for the occasional rebasing (overdue in Vietnam!), your statement is quite frankly incorrect. If every fiat currency had failed in recorded history then what are you using to pay for things every day?

> The current 'credit' system will implode.  Not if; only when.   Wait if you wish...
Another great well-developed argument.

>The big money is already heading for the exits, so (as most people agree) diversify
>by keeping (your values) of cash, gold, assets (etc) according to YOUR thoughts of
>personal security.
Excuse my ignorance, but what does "the big money is already heading for the exits" mean? What is "big money"? And how does it "head for the exits"? And what are those "exits"?  And what hard and verifiable data is that based on?  I guess the "big money" must still be "heading to" as opposed to having gone through, the exits as there seems to be plenty of money around still  https://data.oecd.org/money/broad-money-m3.htm
I think we can agree on diversification of assets and generally that holding cash is not a way to get rich.

As an alternative scenario to the 'credit system will implode' I would suggest that debts may also be reduced through monetary erosion, or inflated away, as well as repaid. Of course there will always be defaults as well, it is part of the system.

I've been told here in the forum that I'll understand Bazza someday.
I'm still waiting.

colinoscapee wrote:

Corruption and bad debt are two of the biggest problems. My ex-gf holds a high position in one of the bigger banks, she said the amount of fake paperwork is staggering.

Just posted on a topic about visas and it reminded me off a funny moment this Agribank employee who inherited her job asked me to help look over her application. She sent me her documents including an offical account summary containing 10,000,000 VND and i pointed out £315 GBP wouldn't even cover the flight. Comes back after speaking to her boyfriend, the branch manager who wasn't quite lucky enough to inherit his job so paid for his position, with a new account summary showing an extra 0. Visa granted 

phikachu wrote:

... this Agribank employee who inherited her job ...
... after speaking to her boyfriend, the branch manager who wasn't quite lucky enough to inherit his job so paid for his position, with a new account summary showing an extra 0.

I don't understand what you wrote (maybe my English is not good enough  ).
The branch manager paid for his position by helping a subordinate employee? 

Andy Passenger wrote:

phikachu wrote:

... this Agribank employee who inherited her job ...
... after speaking to her boyfriend, the branch manager who wasn't quite lucky enough to inherit his job so paid for his position, with a new account summary showing an extra 0.

I don't understand what you wrote (maybe my English is not good enough  ).
The branch manager paid for his position by helping a subordinate employee? 

I also am confused as to what was written.

In VN many people have to pay a bribe to get a job, whether working for a private or for the government. It depends on how corrupt the bosses are. Some school principals also demand a bribe before they allow a pupil or student into their school.

sorry, it was a late night.

This guy failed an entrance exam to a top gifted school and his parents had to bribe his way in. They also paid for his position to work at a state bank because he had no family who worked there and paid his way up to the position of a branch manager. There is a law that if you work for a state company, your children can inherit jobs there. He's so incompetent, whilst faking official documents for his GF to get a visa he miscounted the number of 0's.

phikachu wrote:

sorry, it was a late night.

This guy failed an entrance exam to a top gifted school and his parents had to bribe his way in. They also paid for his position to work at a state bank because he had no family who worked there and paid his way up to the position of a branch manager. There is a law that if you work for a state company, your children can inherit jobs there. He's so incompetent, whilst faking official documents for his GF to get a visa he miscounted the number of 0's.

Ok, now I understand. 
Thanks.

phikachu wrote:

sorry, it was a late night.

This guy failed an entrance exam to a top gifted school and his parents had to bribe his way in. They also paid for his position to work at a state bank because he had no family who worked there and paid his way up to the position of a branch manager. There is a law that if you work for a state company, your children can inherit jobs there. He's so incompetent, whilst faking official documents for his GF to get a visa he miscounted the number of 0's.

Sorry, I haven't heard of any of 'position inheritance law' in the banking sector. I think it's just kind of unofficial 'professional advantage' which people working in banks make for their interests 

phikachu wrote:

There is a law that if you work for a state company, your children can inherit jobs there.

I've never heard of such a law, and half of my relatives have been working for the government all their lives.  One of my nephews retired last year as head honcho of the tax department of a district here in Saigon, and one of my grandnieces is retiring this summer as manager of the state's accounting department in Hanoi.  None of their children inherited their jobs.

I'm certain inside connections would've helped to ease their children's way (which is the same practice in every country, not just VN), but an inherited governmental position as dictated by law?   Doubtful.

Ciambella wrote:

phikachu wrote:

There is a law that if you work for a state company, your children can inherit jobs there.

I've never heard of such a law, and half of my relatives have been working for the government all their lives.  One of my nephews retired last year as head honcho of the tax department of a district here in Saigon, and one of my grandnieces is retiring this summer as manager of the state's accounting department in Hanoi.  None of their children inherited their jobs.

I'm certain inside connections would've helped to ease their children's way (which is the same practice in every country, not just VN), but an inherited governmental position as dictated by law?   Doubtful.

That’s what she said with a lot of pride.  You’re right about inside connections helping regardless of country. Maybe it isn’t written in law about public sector jobs like she said or civil service jobs but I did read a quote from an article about Ho Chi Minh telling his comrades their children will be future leaders too. Unspoken rule of Vietnam

There is one where civil servants are not allowed to marry or date foreigners and that’s in writing.

Check this story out. Sounds familiar to what this girl was telling me. Article also references a book someone on here recommended to read but I doubt I’ll find a copy of it in Vietnam.

https://www.equaltimes.org/jobs-for-sale-in-vietnam

You can download the ebook from Amazon.

If you actually read the law it states that if you marry a foreigner whilst being a civil servant you have to resign from your job. It doesnt say you cant date or marry, it just says you will lose that position.

500 million dong for a basic bank job, complete nonsense. Its nowhere near that. Dont believe everything you read.

colinoscapee wrote:

500 million dong for a basic bank job, complete nonsense. Its nowhere near that. Dont believe everything you read.

It does seem a bit high as it equals 100% of the salary for 8 years.  I believe that the customary retirement age for government work is 55 in Vietnam, so that's nearly a third of a lifetime salary.  I also thought the stated salary for the teacher, at 1.8 Million VND did not seem accurate.  Salaries for government school teachers are ridiculously low but my understanding to speaking with some of them is that they start around 4.5 to 5 million and move up some with time.   Dubious facts shed a bad light on the whole article even if the problem is real.

I have read the aforementioned book and while it is a brutal but interesting analysis of things wrong with he economic system, the numbers are outdated due to inflation.  Perhaps that is where the blog post author got his numbers.  Here is the Kindle link:  https://www.amazon.com/Vietnam-Rising-D … ill+hayton  The hardcover book may actually be banned in Vietnam but I think the e-book can slip through.

THIGV wrote:

I also thought the stated salary for the teacher, at 1.8 Million VND did not seem accurate.  Salaries for government school teachers are ridiculously low but my understanding to speaking with some of them is that they start around 4.5 to 5 million and move up some with time.

Salary for elementary school teachers in Saigon is 6M after the first or second year.  Vietnamese teachers who are qualified to teach English by themselves earn more (I don't know the number, I didn't ask.)  Maybe PE teachers are not considered teachers so their salary is lower, or maybe her sister-in-law is only a PE assistant?

The only people I know who make less than 3M (base pay) work for commissions (as in real estate).  Even tour guides make 5M plus 100% tips.

Only a passport and visa? I have both but the first two banks I visited today showed me the door. First because I didn’t have labor contract and the second because my visa was not longer than 6 months.

Maybe there are differences in the bank branches.
Or maybe the employees in small banks don't know enough about it or they don't want to help you.

Did you go there with a vietnamese guy?
Your girlfriend/wife or a Vietnamese woman impersonating your girlfriend is certainly helpful.

vndreamer wrote:

"Governments cannot afford to let systemically relevant institutions go bankrupt. That is why they are rescued or taken over by the state."

Either you don't understand how it works or you need to do some research and stop believing the lies pushed by corrupt governments.  No, governments do not have to save any bank or company, it is and was planned that way since the dawn of the creation of central banks by the Rothschilds centuries ago.  The politicians agreed to take peoples tax dollars and give to these criminals when they fail and in return, they retain power and money, period.  No government saves any institution, that is a lie. 

Lehman brothers folded, Bear Stearns folded and other major banks and companies have failed throughout history.  If you think the U.S. government is not corrupt, you have a lot of research to do.

Only FYI

https://www.mayerbrown.com/files/Public … N-VAMC.pdf

http://www.vir.com.vn/banks-accelerate- … 48321.html

http://vietnamnews.vn/economy/422511/mo … banks.html

lagunacat wrote:

Only a passport and visa? I have both but the first two banks I visited today showed me the door. First because I didn’t have labor contract and the second because my visa was not longer than 6 months.

I bet those two banks are government owned. They can be difficult at times.

colinoscapee wrote:

I bet those two banks are government owned.

There are not anymore a lot fully state-owned banks in Vietnam.
Most are partly privat banks (state hold no less 65%).

http://vneconomictimes.com/article/bank … wned-banks

https://www.reuters.com/article/vietnam … SL3N1O04AX (Not all data is up to date).

Well the government still dictates how things are done. I bank with a company that is totally private. Banks like Agribank, Vietcombank and Vietinbank are all partly owned by the government and not user friendly.

lagunacat wrote:

Only a passport and visa? I have both but the first two banks I visited today showed me the door. First because I didn’t have labor contract and the second because my visa was not longer than 6 months.

Yes, I did bring some other documents just in case, but never got asked for anything other than my passport. I only have a 3 month visa. I don't work in Vietnam. VietinBank.
At no stage was there any indication that an account opening request could be turned down, I almost got the impression it was a basic right/utility service that they would provide to anyone.
In any case I do know for a matter of fact that a 3 month visa is sufficient, anyone telling you that you need a 6 month visa is certainly not referring to the law. Maybe their own personal or branch policy.

Perhaps some bank employees just don't want to deal with foreigners. Maybe try a central city branch, and of course don't go in wearing shorts and flip-flops and a Hawaiian shirt.

As an after-thought, do you hold an American passport? I know financial institutions the world over will go to great lengths to avoid having Americans as clients, due to the onerous FATCA laws etc.  This has caused many problems for people in Europe too, anyone with any hint of a link to America has been at risk of having their accounts closed and/or frozen with little notice, and with zero chance of being able to open an account elsewhere. Nightmarish scenarios, but it shows to what extent banks shun any links with American customers. The worst affected were the so-called "Accidental Americans", those born in the US due to their parents having spent some time there, but otherwise without any links to America, and some of them speaking no English at all. Renouncing US citizenship for these people has proved to be a nightmare!

ACB and Techcombank

As stated above, you can get a different answer from branch to branch. Try HD Bank, a fully private bank.

Thanks for your reply. Yes it was branch/bank policy regarding the minimum 6 month visa (Techcombank downtown Vung Tau). They even put me on the phone with a fluent English speaker. He told me to come back when I have a longer visa. I was alone and am almost always dressed appropriately. I don’t even own flip flops 😀.

ACB treated me like I was the US president (not the current one) and put me at the head of the line when I walked in (which I was not comfortable with and protested a bit. I believe I should get same treatment as locals, not better not worse) and when I told them I was retired and had no labor contract they smiled politely and said no.

I also know that a 3 month visa is sufficient at (at least some branches of) BIDV.
Maybe you can try VietinBank, BIDV.
Maybe it is easier in Saigon. But you do need an address, and I imagine the closer it is to the branch, the better. Having said that, I'm not sure they send anything in the post. I certainly haven't received anything.

I could open a current account with a 3-months visa at Sacombank (private bank).

The Vietnam Prosperity Bank (VP Bank) seems also to be a good privat bank.
http://vietnamnews.vn/economy/421639/vp … rofit.html

ACB, Techcombank and VP Bank are the best privat banks listed under the top-10 Vietnamese banks.
https://aasc.com.vn/web/index.php/en/th … n-nam-2017

Yes Andy, I did my research beforehand and that is why I chose ACB and Technobank. I also wanted to go with Timo but they would not give me a straight answer as to whether they will sign a Vung Tau resident. Apparently they sign you up at a HCM “hangout”. After about 5 e-mail exchanges I gave up.

lagunacat wrote:

I also wanted to go with Timo but they would not give me a straight answer as to whether they will sign a Vung Tau resident.

Have a look to ...

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=666134

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=763200

Maybe dudumomo can support you.

jonasp wrote:

lagunacat wrote:

Only a passport and visa? I have both but the first two banks I visited today showed me the door. First because I didn’t have labor contract and the second because my visa was not longer than 6 months.

As an after-thought, do you hold an American passport? I know financial institutions the world over will go to great lengths to avoid having Americans as clients, due to the onerous FATCA laws etc.  This has caused many problems for people in Europe too, anyone with any hint of a link to America has been at risk of having their accounts closed and/or frozen with little notice, and with zero chance of being able to open an account elsewhere. Nightmarish scenarios, but it shows to what extent banks shun any links with American customers. The worst affected were the so-called "Accidental Americans", those born in the US due to their parents having spent some time there, but otherwise without any links to America, and some of them speaking no English at all. Renouncing US citizenship for these people has proved to be a nightmare!

I just saw this question regarding American passport. Interesting question. I do hold an American passport however the banks did not know this. I tried to open with my Italian passport. It does state on my Italian passport that I was born in America but that is it. I am not sure the bank reps looked that closely at my passport. Possibly AC Bank did but Technobank went straight to my Visa and said simply 3 months was not long enough.

Just for info, you can open an account easily with no proof of address at Timo, by visiting their "Hangout" at D3 in HCM. I don't think it matters what address you give but you do need to bring a passport and 3M visa. You walk out with a functioning debit card and active account.

jonasp wrote:

Just for info, you can open an account easily with no proof of address at Timo, by visiting their "Hangout" at D3 in HCM. I don't think it matters what address you give but you do need to bring a passport and 3M visa. You walk out with a functioning debit card and active account.

Right, but I live in VT and just want to be able to make deposits when I want without having to travel to Saigon. I have no problem going there to set up the account. Just need to confirm my deposit/transfer options. I’ve actually got a signed lease now, police registration and a VN DL.

lagunacat wrote:

jonasp wrote:

Just for info, you can open an account easily with no proof of address at Timo, by visiting their "Hangout" at D3 in HCM. I don't think it matters what address you give but you do need to bring a passport and 3M visa. You walk out with a functioning debit card and active account.

Right, but I live in VT and just want to be able to make deposits when I want without having to travel to Saigon. I have no problem going there to set up the account. Just need to confirm my deposit/transfer options. I’ve actually got a signed lease now, police registration and a VN DL.

Actually you can deposit at any VP bank. That should be possible also in VT. They have machines for depositing too at VP bank so you don't even need to deal with a person.
I think you can transfer to any account in Vietnam afterwards, pay bills, etc

Was it easy to get the VN DL? I assume you got to keep your original licence?