Libya wants freedom

Jenni and Clansmen, nobody said that. What I am saying is you can't assume in depth knowledge just because they are a citizen.

I am sure you will find lots of British who have no clue about Saxon history and you can't assume they know it in detail just because they are British.

Case in point, lots of Croatian youth embrace the Croatian flag as a symbol of nationalism and the freedom of the republic from Yugoslavia and Communism. Many also have no clue that, yes it is a symbol of the nation, but unfortunatly the Croat fascist party during WWII era also used it as their symbol, so its very very closely aligned with the German swastica in many older peoples  eyes, and its associated with the killing of jews and slavs during WWII.

The Wests embracment of the Idris flag is ironic because Idris was a western puppet and quite a few conspiracy theories about how the west is trying to instill their puppet goverment again in present day Libya.

Anyways, back to Mancu, if he has been weened on the "official" story of the history of Libya as dispensed by the gov. From pre-historic times, biblical times, "big blank", and then straign to Colonional era and Italian re-ression and into modern times.  They usually miss our the Ottoma era and its influence on the current problems.

The current discourse is rooted in the end of Ottoman era and how the 3 provinces got lumped into one without thought to the peoples. This fight is between Tripolitia and Cyrenacia. 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_traditionnal_provinces_of_Libye-en.svg

well, in this case im loosing my patience and i have to say: BLA BLA BLA... WHATEVERRRRR.

mancunian wrote:

well, in this case im loosing my patience and i have to say: BLA BLA BLA... WHATEVERRRRR.

My appologies, I think I posted before I read your earlier reply far above.

Yes, I know hanging in Libya on TV is true, as I have seen it with my own eyes. But I am not mulsim I do not know about its significance of what it means to do it during ramadan. I have also heard of stories of capital punishment methods in Saudi and Kuwait from other people, but as I have never been there or seen  it, I dont know if its true.  Not much I can add to that as I dont know what these people did, but given that similar punishments are done in other countries to anyone who raises opinions against the rulers.

Regarding Idris, it' fairly common historical knowledge that he was implanted as a ruler by foreigners to serve their interests. What his exact ties to foreign companies were during the post WWII era I dont know. However, I do know of the very ridiculous true scenarios where rich Greeks and Italians, who had only been doing business in Libya for a realtivelty short time, but they somehow managed to own entire city blocks of Tripoli during the 50s, 60's thru 70s. So you got to wonder how they managed to get away with that deal in such a short time?

Idris was from the East, Cyrenaica right? The stories you heard, were they coming from Libyans in the South and West or just East? Just wondering if he was equally fair across the board with everyone?

(fixed. i meant to write east but was writing too fast)

Ok, Idris was implanted as a ruler by the west to serve their interest, but to serve Libyans' interest as well, and we noticed that during the relatively short period he was in charge, so even with sharing the resources of Libya between the Libyans and the foreigners, Libya would still have become a way better than what gaddafi turned it to. gaddafi decided not to share and not to do anything, he kept everything thing for himself, his loyalists and his security, he spent billions to support any military movements around the world as he believed that would keep him secure. he destroyed even the social structure of the Libyan society and worked on encouraging the heat and antagonism  between tribes and cities.

Idris was from the East of Libya and I am from the west and all Libyans never mentioned any things such being unfair or preferred a part of Libya on other parts. 

At the end, there is nothing is worse as gaddafi in the whole world, and life without him is a way better and it is worth the sacrifices.

douglas1969 wrote:

Masterr wrote:

Clansman and OB, did you read Moel's article?
agreeablelife.wordpress.com-2011/03/27/libya-as-i-see-it
what did you understand from it?

Actually a very poignant post and it brings up some questions  which has been evaded and unanswered and is the source of many consiiracy theories.

Libya "was" or "seemed" to have been on the cusp of massive change, in a very good way, just before all this happened. They were pro-West, they were building ties with the West and many multi-national corporations. They were participating on massive economic discussions of how to modernize the country and make it better for all citizens and then all this happened. I find it completely mind boggling how they went from Friend #1 to Enemy #1 within a span of a week!

I think that just showes how fickle the West is and how we still have a rather patronising attitude to these parts of the world. We only swapped sides because it was in our interest. Or so it seemed. It looked like Gadaffi was going to fall rather swiftly, but look now. We are in another fine mess!

Ran under the covers, didnt you? Given the sudden dreadful turn of events. The problems are just beginning to surface. As a famous quote goes, "The effects come first; the causes, later."

Q. is obviously gone, but what is probably going to happen now is that all the internal rifts which Qaddafi had been hiding from the world and holding down with an iron fist all these years are going to slowly come forward and surface. If I remember anything from my years there, there were many losers who lost a lot that belonged to them and there were many  winners who gained a lot that didnt belong to them from the  green revolution. Very strong odds that there are many scores that are going to be settled in the next few years.

The Freedom fighters are making some great gains. Hopefully the little toad and his brood will be on their way out soon and Libya will be free. I think after reflection, I'm going to call this the "Sam Beckett" revolution. Because these guys are going to "put right, what once went wrong".

Given that the NTC fighters will eventually enter Tripoli, I doubt very much if we'll see a happy ending right there.

Just consider the situations in both Iraq and Afghanistan, where unrest is still occurring on a regular basis despite UN/NATO assistance on the ground and even years after democratic elections.

Libya is even more fragmented than Iraq or Afghanistan as a result of tribalism, which will continue to cause serious problems for many years after the Gadaffi circus have been kicked out/jailed/lynched.

Sandman6 wrote:

Given that the NTC fighters will eventually enter Tripoli, I doubt very much if we'll see a happy ending right there.

Just consider the situations in both Iraq and Afghanistan, where unrest is still occurring on a regular basis despite UN/NATO assistance on the ground and even years after democratic elections.

Libya is even more fragmented than Iraq or Afghanistan as a result of tribalism, which will continue to cause serious problems for many years after the Gadaffi circus have been kicked out/jailed/lynched.

- There were troops on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan which was considered as an invasion for most citizens.
- There are few religious sects in both countries and they were unstable even before the attacks and they were in need of a spark.
- In Libya, through the history there was no a single suicide bombing incident as this ideology isn't accepted among the Islamist in Libya. 
- From what we noticed during the last few months in the cities that have been liberated, stability was the main scene and the small incidents in Benghazi were made by gaddafi's goons.

- Tribalism was encouraged by gaddafi and he used his media to exaggerate it, but it was never a main fact to depend on to control the country, he used it to scare people from civil war.

Therefore, I am totally sure that Libya, as was before Gaddafi, will be much safer and more peaceful place.

mancunian wrote:

.......

Therefore, I am totally sure that Libya, as was before Gaddafi, will be much safer and more peaceful place.

you forgot to say InshaAllah!

Sandman6 wrote:

Given that the NTC fighters will eventually enter Tripoli, I doubt very much if we'll see a happy ending right there.

Just consider the situations in both Iraq and Afghanistan, where unrest is still occurring on a regular basis despite UN/NATO assistance on the ground and even years after democratic elections.

Libya is even more fragmented than Iraq or Afghanistan as a result of tribalism, which will continue to cause serious problems for many years after the Gadaffi circus have been kicked out/jailed/lynched.

agreed. am i the only one confused how he is able to launch scud type missiles after 6 months of bombing?

We did it!! We actually did it!! Libya is free!!

Julien - Would it be possible to replace the Gaddafi flag with the Libyan tricolour flag please?

uefastriker wrote:

We did it!! We actually did it!! Libya is free!!

YES!!!  You did!!!!!  And I am so proud of you all!!!  This is a day for celebration!!!!!  I have hardly slept for two days - i have been glued to my laptop!!!  I am sososososososo excited and pleased and overwhelmed!!  CONGRATULATIONS!!!! 

Even with the news that Saif is still out and about in Tripoli...the writing on the wall. I hope...this doesnt prove to be too protracted and bloody.

Can someone send me the new flag to julien [at] expat-blog [dot] com?

thanks

Sent...it's actually the "old" pre Gaddafi flag!

got it, thanks. I'll arrange this later today

Done !

It's been just about transferring a new file on our server, but it means a lot to me.

Thanks Julien!

uefastriker wrote:

Even with the news that Saif is still out and about in Tripoli...the writing on the wall. I hope...this doesnt prove to be too protracted and bloody.

Same here......  :-(  But I am trusting that our guys will do a complete clean up operation - and that it will be fast!!!  :-)

HEY - the new flag is up!!!  WOOHOO!!!  Thank you Julien!!!  :-)

Jenni Red wrote:

uefastriker wrote:

Even with the news that Saif is still out and about in Tripoli...the writing on the wall. I hope...this doesnt prove to be too protracted and bloody.

Same here......  :-(  But I am trusting that our guys will do a complete clean up operation - and that it will be fast!!!  :-)

yeah, right. dispense international justice the sicilian way? shoot him in the head and throw him in the water in the middle of the ocean.

Sandman6 wrote:

Sent...it's actually the "old" pre Gaddafi flag!

is it? i thought the old flag had white in it?

douglas1969 wrote:

Jenni Red wrote:

uefastriker wrote:

Even with the news that Saif is still out and about in Tripoli...the writing on the wall. I hope...this doesnt prove to be too protracted and bloody.

Same here......  :-(  But I am trusting that our guys will do a complete clean up operation - and that it will be fast!!!  :-)

yeah, right. dispense international justice the sicilian way? shoot him in the head and throw him in the water in the middle of the ocean.

Did your pay check from Gaddafi not clear? Maybe if youre quick enough...you can get yourself down to the remnants of his compound and snag one of those gold plated AK 47s.