Website that shows real estate SOLD prices

@Andrew Rockwell To my knowledge this doesn't exist.

@nz7521137

That's sad. Thanks

@Andrew,

I don't know a website like that. Only maybe some websites, like Idealista, that make some sales values /m2 statistics in each city.

But even if there was one, it would never correspond to reality. When there is no bank loan involved, the value agreed between buyer and seller, most of the times, is not reflected in the deed, because of the taxes that both have to pay...

@JohnnyPT

Thanks,   I am looking for sales data so I can do a comparative sales price analysis on a property.  I can see "for sale" prices on Idealista, but not the result.

As we all know, what owners hope for and what they get can be quite different.

Maybe someone needs to start this business in Portugal?

There is a database here but it is only accessible by subscription:

Confidencial Imobiliário

https://www.confidencialimobiliario.com … idenciais/

This "business" already exists somehow. Confidencial Imobiliário is an independent databank and the only source in Portugal with statistical data on actual transaction prices, yields and rental contracts for residential properties, as well as which new property projects are in the pipeline. Email available, they are located in Porto....

__

Idealista

https://www.idealista.pt/media/relatori … habitacao/

Unfortunately Portugal is a closed market so this data is not publicly available. There are only one or two companies in the country that have access to this information and legally registered appraisers can have access to this in order to appraise for lenders

@Andrew,
I don't know a website like that. Only maybe some websites, like Idealista, that make some sales values /m2 statistics in each city.

But even if there was one, it would never correspond to reality. When there is no bank loan involved, the value agreed between buyer and seller, most of the times, is not reflected in the deed, because of the taxes that both have to pay...
-@JohnnyPT

I would think that the financial authorities do have the sales price as there are taxes to be paid based upon the sales price and other factors. So theoretically the Financas could provide and publish the information, but it has chosen to not do so.

Isn't it a bit pointless? Lots of things happen and change.

I bought my house for €155,000. 13 years later its now on the market for €350,000.

My dad bought his house for £200,000 its now worth £800,000 20 years on.

Isn't it a bit pointless? Lots of things happen and change.
I bought my house for €155,000. 13 years later its now on the market for €350,000.

My dad bought his house for £200,000 its now worth £800,000 20 years on.
-@SimCityAT

True if you only think in terms of time, but not so if out think in terms of location. If you wanted to buy this year in an area you like then openly available data would tell you how much has been paid in the area during the past year. Not that pointless, I think.

You base your "openly availabe data"  on the  false assumption that the reported sale price is the real sale price, there are reasons why in Portugal this is a false, and thus, making any conclusions based on this type of  data inaccurate and misleading. The tax authority do have the reported price but this doesn't necessary correspond to the actual price paid.

I agree with @SimCityAT.

A lot of things change. Information is available to all in some way. Insider information exists but it is more of interest to new property developers who adjust prices in anticipation of demand due to predictable urban renewal in cities or the upcoming of public transport such as the underground. This happens for example in Lisbon, where in some of the cheapest neighbourhoods and where few wanted to live, now prices are increasing much more than in more stabilised and favoured neighbourhoods.

@JohnnyPT do realtors have access to the sold data in order to have enough information to set list prices and negotiate pricing?

You base your "openly availabe data" on the false assumption that the reported sale price is the real sale price, there are reasons why in Portugal this is a false, and thus, making any conclusions based on this type of data inaccurate and misleading. The tax authority do have the reported price but this doesn't necessary correspond to the actual price paid.
-@Strontium

I can only say that in my case the real sales price was used for the calculation of taxes and thus the real sales price could have been published on some website, if that existed. Maybe in Portugal tax evasion in property sales is so rampant that even a good estimate of "real sales prices" is impossible. However, my feeling is that it is intentional to not publish the information available by Financas. Selling properties to foreigners is big business in Portugal and prices can be best maximized if as little as possible is known.

I wouldn't be surprised that in the sellers market that we have currently that buyers are paying close to asking prices. IMO it would be 90-95% of asking price. So the asking prices you see less 5% will be an accurate figure to work with.

Though some older properties may have been sold at say 15-20% below asking there are some that have been sold over asking by folks from the US desperate to secure a property for the purpose of the D7 visa as rentals hardly exist. They buy with the intention of flipping it when they are here and have the time to look for something that they really want. Yes it inflates market prices.

@Vidanova Fair analysis.  I'd tend to agree with that view. Rental prices are exceedingly high and anyone arriving in Portugal, say, in May-September looking for a long term rental are most likely going to be taken to the cleaners.

I agree - and I have no axe to grind as I happen to be a landlord and a renter in Algarve - that the property prices are too high yet, when considering the rental yields available throughout a year, they are too low!

Maybe 3-4% net maximum.

Renting for most locals is already a challenge so, without a steady ongoing influx of wealthy expats to artificially underpin the high costs as you rightly state, then something may have to give.

Personally, I thought about buying a couple of years ago and decided against as I believed the prices for the product available was too expensive.

I'm even more convinced now, but it's an individual choice and decision.  Personally, I'll stick to the rental market for the foreseeable future.

I also agree with @SimCityAT. 

does it really matter what the "common prices" / "typical prices" stats are ? 

Just like everything in life, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose !  Personally speaking, if I like a property/ area & willing to spend the money, then i go and do it ( even if I may get ripped off a little bit) .

Not preaching to the converted, but  Area X, with Rooms y , number of houses on market , then a simple "average pricing" would typically .

Kets not hold our breath getting anything from Finanças

When looking for a property and you find something in the location you want and the property ticks 7 out of 10 boxes then that's the one to buy. Looking for the 8/9/10 ticks is not going to happen in your price range, that is "buyers dilemma", it does not matter if you are buying a house, car or boat, it is always the case.

Then, in a sellers market, when you do find the 7 ticks don't insult with a low ball offer at 70-80% of the asking price, the agent and the seller will regard you as a Tire Kicker and you will have lost your credibility. You will not get the offer accepted and the agent, if he has any experience, will likely dump you. Why? Because the agent knows that 99% of low ballers never buy anything and would even back out if the low ball was accepted. Never go less than 15% in this market,  an offer 10% under is expected and respectable. Remember properties are priced at a level of what the market can bear. If you don't buy it someone else will.

Just my tuppence worth, having been in real estate in Portugal for many years.

@nz7521137@nz7521137

Well, idealista doesn t make a difference if you buy a ruin ar a renovated place. And most media reports refer to it.

Means they just divide m2 price.

So if you buy in Lisboa where there aren t any ruins idealista says m2 is x

In a small village where 9 ruins and one highstandard house is sold..idealista marks m2 price really low as 9 ruins are included only by m2.

@Strontium

off-topic, but im interested to know how such transactions are ”safely” managed in portugal where the buyer and seller document one price but actually transact on another. i was recently asked to do this by a portuguese seller in porto (land for several houses)

    @Strontium
off-topic, but im interested to know how such transactions are ”safely” managed in portugal where the buyer and seller document one price but actually transact OTHERS. i was recently asked to do this by a portuguese seller in porto (land for several houses)
   

    -@Mydeliveries

I don't wish to elaborate as this may be a legal "grey area", also, I never suggested they are "safely managed"  I have altered your quote.

Would be great if anyone on this thread who lives in Algarve could comment on the following.

We started to feel in Madeira in the 4th quarter of 2023 that the market for expensive apartments usually purchased by expats started to stall after a very strong run in 2022 and H1 2023. This is  based on seeing more and more discounted offers. Renting this kind of apartments is still more economically viable than buying.

Does anyone observe a similar trend in Algarve or this is specific only to Madeira?

@Dmitri_K

my personal opinion on madeira is that with many developments much of the inflation on prices was due to developers offering locals excellent prices and terms. the prices are inflated and if theres a stall its now because the locals are struggling to keep up and foreign investment isn't coming in at the level needed to progress the price

this doesn't happen in areas where there is a high and sustained foreign interest 

@Mydeliveries , thanks a lot!

Would be great to hear other views on this topic from anyone watching closely real estate prices in Algarve and Madeira. I am trying to understand if the inflow of expats to these two areas of Portugal stays as high as it was in 2022 or it has started to slow down in H2 2023. It would be great if anyone knows where to find official statistics on this matter.

I am checking regularly official statistics on real estate prices but those which are published by the Department of Statistics are based on bank assessment and most premium apartments sold to expats are outright sales without a mortgage

@Dmitri_K

May i ask, what have you noticed from the statistics that you're regularly checking?

Unfortunately this tool dosn't allow me to post a specific image, so please check this website (Department of Statistics in Madeira) and look for real estate prices. Remember, this is based on bank assessments. Basically, both the prices and number of transactions stalled in H2 2023 in Portugal in general and in Madeira specifically https://estatistica.madeira.gov.pt/en/