Letting agreement advice

I am NOT a solicitor but.................
I would say NO to both.
I would remove the words renew/vacate and only have vacate for No1.
And regarding No2, mine is one month's rent for early vacation.
Don't know what value property this relates to but figures seem far too high.
There should be a force majeure clause in case you have to leave in a hurry too.
I would also be careful about sending any money too, how is that going to be safeguarded?

i would say these are not normal - as much as i can understand they need to protect themselves from unscrupulous tenants, id say walk away, what about your protection and what he is affording you by way of protecting you from him - one way traffic is not a good start nor acceptable.... i would be thinking again. do you have anyone recommending this landlord.?


i would also check the billing arrangements for utilities too as there are often hidden as "domestic" rating rather than "residential" and these can be considerably more expensive 30-65% more. and no landlord nor estate agent will ever admit to this hidden high cost....they will often "fudge" the issue. I know one lady on Gozo who got caught out with a 7 months electricity bill of 1700euros (1500 was for elec alone) so beware.

Totaly agree with Redmik and Toon,how long is the contract for?
Most renters who are new to the Island will move from the first property before the contract is up. Sign this contract and it will cost you if you wish to move because you find out the landlord has failed to disclose something that makes the property wrong for you ( damp, excessive noise etc).

Also ensure that you will get the cheap rate for you elec / water and it says so in the contract!

Terry

tearnet wrote:

Also ensure that you will get the cheap rate for you elec / water and it says so in the contract!

Terry

Or negotiate a rent reduction if you are not being registered for rebates.

never pay a deposit up front if you can avoid it - as you will never see it again - landlords do tend to keep them no matter what the reasons - if you must - maybe try and use a trusted third party mediator..to hold monies in trust.

agree whole-hearetdly with tearnet, most newbies will move within 6 months.......watchword shortest lease possible as this will give you a chance to get out without too much a of a financial loss. NOBODY ever gets it right first time. or in the case of RED - rarely....

Walk away. Even if the person agrees to changing the terms,  it's the wrong mindset

georgeingozo wrote:

Walk away. Even if the person agrees to changing the terms,  it's the wrong mindset

100% agree

the problem is that all foreigners are "fair game" to the landlord fraternity - and the key is to get ahead of the "game" - use this forum for all its worth. consider everything.

toonarmy9752 wrote:

never pay a deposit up front if you can avoid it - as you will never see it again - landlords do tend to keep them no matter what the reasons - if you must - maybe try and use a trusted third party mediator..to hold monies in trust.

I paid one month's rent deposit €320 but only after I had spent 6 weeks in the property previously.

redmik wrote:

toonarmy9752 wrote:

never pay a deposit up front if you can avoid it - as you will never see it again - landlords do tend to keep them no matter what the reasons - if you must - maybe try and use a trusted third party mediator..to hold monies in trust.

I paid one month's rent deposit €320 but only after I had spent 6 weeks in the property previously.

i guess for clarity i meant "without being here" deposits do have to be paid generally. but i would not consider paying a deposit without at least being here and having physically viewed the prospective home - photos just arent accurate.....

mantonas wrote:

2) If the Lessee vacates the flat before the termination of the contract, the Lessee has to pay Euro1000 to Lessor for not completing the duration of the contract apart from loosing the deposit and pay all the outstanding bills and damages if any.

Depending on your monthly rental amount and the amount of deposit, this could be reasonable. Its 1. that is unreasonable

losing the deposit is taken as read by most renters......"any damages" usually concocted so as not to repay the deposit.....take photos at start and end of tenancy to prove condition as I know a few people who have been caught by this. and one who even ended up in court......caveat emptor.

Many thanks to all your replies. I a have something very urgent to do now but I will come back to the forum later to give you some more details of the tenancy.
I really appreciate all your tips and advices.

Cheerio,
Antonio

Once again, thanks to everyone for your replies.

toonarmy9752 wrote:

...do you have anyone recommending this landlord.?

She hasn't been recommended by anyone. I have seen her apartment on the JustLanded forum and have contacted her directly.

toonarmy9752 wrote:

i would also check the billing arrangements for utilities too as there are often hidden as "domestic" rating rather than "residential" and these can be considerably more expensive 30-65% more. and no landlord nor estate agent will ever admit to this hidden high cost....they will often "fudge" the issue. I know one lady on Gozo who got caught out with a 7 months electricity bill of 1700euros (1500 was for elec alone) so beware.

From what she told me, the bills would be on her name but I would have to pay a certain amount upfront every month. So, when she receives the bills from the suppliers, she would show me and let me know how much would be the exactly amounts.

tearnet wrote:

Totaly agree with Redmik and Toon,how long is the contract for?

For long let, she would only accept a 1 year contract.

redmik wrote:

Or negotiate a rent reduction if you are not being registered for rebates.

Thanks for the advice redmik!

toonarmy9752 wrote:

never pay a deposit up front if you can avoid it - as you will never see it again - landlords do tend to keep them no matter what the reasons - if you must - maybe try and use a trusted third party mediator..to hold monies in trust.

agree whole-hearetdly with tearnet, most newbies will move within 6 months.......watchword shortest lease possible as this will give you a chance to get out without too much a of a financial loss. NOBODY ever gets it right first time. or in the case of RED - rarely....

Yes, it makes sense! I was actually thinking in pay the depo up front to secure the apartment.

georgeingozo wrote:

mantonas wrote:

2) If the Lessee vacates the flat before the termination of the contract, the Lessee has to pay Euro1000 to Lessor for not completing the duration of the contract apart from loosing the deposit and pay all the outstanding bills and damages if any.

Depending on your monthly rental amount and the amount of deposit, this could be reasonable. Its 1. that is unreasonable

Hi George,
The price of the rent is 400€ so, the amount she's asking it's more than the double of the one month rent's, don't think that's reasonable.

toonarmy9752 wrote:

losing the deposit is taken as read by most renters......"any damages" usually concocted so as not to repay the deposit.....take photos at start and end of tenancy to prove condition as I know a few people who have been caught by this. and one who even ended up in court......caveat emptor.

I have rented properties in many different places before(England, Scotland, Ireland and Spain) and normally, the deposit would be the only money I would lose in case of breaking the contract without noticed or a valid reason or if I would make any damage on the property. Fortunately, that never happened to me and I was never asked for more than the initial deposit for any of those eventualities.
Thank you ever so much again for all your advice and I will now think on all my options and try to make best decision. If you guys know about any landlords or agencies that could recommend to me, please feel free to do so.

Thanks to all
Antonio

Walk away, she will rip you off!
There are loads of places to let in Mellieha, save money in the long run by staying in a hotel for a week or so and sort out a place to stay.

Good luck.

Terry

tearnet wrote:

Walk away, she will rip you off!
There are loads of places to let in Mellieha, save money in the long run by staying in a hotel or short stay appartment for a week or so and sort out a place to stay.

Good luck.

Terry

Re Electricity. What I have done is take my readings, used the online ARMS calculator, taken a screen shot of the calculation, converted that to an image and emailed it to my landlady, then paid her the required amount. Just as a double check without waiting for bills.
Maybe that may help in the future?

tearnet wrote:

Walk away, she will rip you off!
There are loads of places to let in Mellieha, save money in the long run by staying in a hotel for a week or so and sort out a place to stay.

Good luck.

Terry

Thanks for the advice Terry! I was actually thinking about that option. We are a family of 3 people, do you know any B&B around Mellieha with reasonable prices where we could stay for few days until we sort our thinks out?

Cheerio,
Antonio

redmik wrote:

Re Electricity. What I have done is take my readings, used the online ARMS calculator, taken a screen shot of the calculation, converted that to an image and emailed it to my landlady, then paid her the required amount. Just as a double check without waiting for bills.
Maybe that may help in the future?

Great advice redmik, will defo have that in mind for future reference in case a need to do the same.

We stayed at the Panoram hotel
http://www.panorama-hotel.com/en/TheHotel

Nice and central without being noisy but there are loads on line just do a search for Mellieha hotels.

Terry

mantonas wrote:

redmik wrote:

Re Electricity. What I have done is take my readings, used the online ARMS calculator, taken a screen shot of the calculation, converted that to an image and emailed it to my landlady, then paid her the required amount. Just as a double check without waiting for bills.
Maybe that may help in the future?

Great advice redmik, will defo have that in mind for future reference in case a need to do the same.

Yep, great advice we do the same and just send the copy along with  a cheque every two months.

Terry

that assumes the landlord is happy to have the utilitiies paid that way using that caclulation - as if he is initially then he is in for a shock if the property is domestic rated and HE WILL resort to recompense for sure..... he will revert to type 100%

toonarmy9752 wrote:

that assumes the landlord is happy to have the utilitiies paid that way using that caclulation - as if he is initially then he is in for a shock if the property is domestic rated and HE WILL resort to recompense for sure..... he will revert to type 100%

Sorry mate, don't understand that.

I presume the online calculator uses residential not domestic tariffs

georgeingozo wrote:

I presume the online calculator uses residential not domestic tariffs

It can be set for either and for 1 or 3 phase supply and number of residents.

See here: https://www.smartutilities.com.mt/wps/p … BIS9nQSEh/

redmik wrote:

georgeingozo wrote:

I presume the online calculator uses residential not domestic tariffs

It can be set for either and for 1 or 3 phase supply and number of residents.

See here: https://www.smartutilities.com.mt/wps/p … BIS9nQSEh/

thanks :-)

So, giving you guys an update in regards to my conversation with the landlady, I have sent her an email explaining that I was not happy with her tenancy agreement T&C. This was her reply:

"I am ready to delete No 2, but No 1 does not mean anything except that if I do not want to renew after a year (termination of contract) as you were not good tenants, then I will have something to safeguard myself to get you out of the flat.  I have never used this clause and hope that I will never do.  If you are good tenants you can renew without any problems, if you want to move to somewhere else you can move too and you still get your deposit back.  There was a case that someone was leaving the island and did a contract for a year and did a clause then that if she leaves the country before the year, she will still get her deposit back.  So actually No 1 means nothing if your intentions are good.  If you are not ready to sign for No 1, then I am sorry but I cannot trust you because you are already thinking of doing something after a year or during the year... I understand No 2, as you might not like Malta etc, but no 1 means nothing if you are honest and your intentions are good.  If I was not honest I would never have sent you the agreement to read it before, but let you come to the flat and then you will have no time to read it property and sign it as you would have already been there..."

In your honest opinion, are these valid reasons? Even if I decide to go ahead after seeing the property, in my opinion point 2 still needs to be updated and specify in more detail the reason for that clause.

Please let me know what you think about it.

Thanks in advance
Antonio

mantonas wrote:

1) Should the lessee fail to renew the contract/vacate the property at the termination of this agreement he/she will pay a monthly fee of Euros 3000 until they renew/vacate the said property.

unless they agree to make it a monthly fee equiv to the current rent, or even 50% more, walk away.

the calcultor can be set for non residential and zero consumer thus the considerably more expensive domestic rates are used for the calculation. residential tariff is only relevant if there are 1 or more consumers.

I am suggesting that unless the property is already set at residential rates maybe as inheritted from a previous tenancy - domestic will be used for sure...and if a tenant uses the residential tariff then there will be a shortfall in payments for the actaul bill calculated at domestic by ARMs. and the thus the landlords will want to be paid. unless of course the rental rate for the property is exhorbitantly high.

a look at a recently supplied bill will prove what rates will get used, and what will ultimately be presented to the tenant.

toonarmy9752 wrote:

.

a look at a recently supplied bill will prove what rates will get used,

not necessarily - could be on residential rates now, but if the old tenant moves their residential address within Malta, it could go back to domestic

If the landlord is above board then getting someone on as a tenant is just a matter of filling in a form and signing it, the landlord hands it in and you get residential rates, job done!

only if the landlord is not declaring the income is there a problem.
Just ask the landlord before you sign and get it added to the contract.

Terry

Both the landlord and the foreign tenant need to be above board. :-)

I do not see the problem on those clauses except on the disproportionate amounts, but this comment is unbelievable: "If I was not honest I would never have sent you the agreement to read it before, but let you come to the flat and then you will have no time to read it property and sign it as you would have already been there.."

Can anyone say that in a serious e-mail? She is basically saying that she has already proved that she is honest -with a ridiculous conclusion- while you do not, so she is the only one with the right to protect herself from the other party. If I were finally not interested on the property, I would answer her;
"If I was not honest I would never have read, review and discuss the agreement, because I would not care about my liabilities as a tenant.."

That seems the way she thinks, so she should understand it.

Thanks again for all your comments.

I just had a skype conversion and she understood where I was coming from. She reassured me that she never used that clause before and would only be used if the tenant did not want to move from the apartment (on friendly terms) in case she wouldn't want to renew the contract. Let's say, coz she needs the apartment at some stage for her own use. Or, if the tenant would be a trouble maker and would not want to leave the apartment in the end of the tenancy. She said she would't mind to change it and asked me for a suggestion on how would suite me better, coz I said that clause was a bit general and wasn't specifying the reasons why should be used.

So, in my opinion should look something like this:

"Should the lessee refuses to vacate the property at the termination of this agreement, either for causing problems or in case the lesser needs the apartment for his/her own use, the lessee will pay a monthly fee of Euros 3000 until he/she vacates the said property."

In this case, that would not bother me much coz, 1st I am not a trouble maker and 2nd, of course I would leave the apartment if the landlord would need it, providing that she would give me enough notice to find another place.

I wonder what you think, if this change would make more sense.

Cheerio,
Antonio

Let's say a week before lease expires you are admitted to hospital, or. Are In the UK and for some reason can't return. If you are a 1 day late that's a 3000 bill

Or your removal firm lets you down

Lusco wrote:

I do not see the problem on those clauses except on the disproportionate amounts, but this comment is unbelievable: "If I was not honest I would never have sent you the agreement to read it before, but let you come to the flat and then you will have no time to read it property and sign it as you would have already been there.."

Can anyone say that in a serious e-mail? She is basically saying that she has already proved that she is honest -with a ridiculous conclusion- while you do not, so she is the only one with the right to protect herself from the other party. If I were finally not interested on the property, I would answer her;
"If I was not honest I would never have read, review and discuss the agreement, because I would not care about my liabilities as a tenant.."

That seems the way she thinks, so she should understand it.

That's true Lusco. I told her anyway that I would not sign a contact before reading it carefully and agreeing with its terms and conditions. I have decided that I will not send any deposit, until I get there and see the apartment first. It looks nice from the pics I have seen but there's nothing like see it with your own eyes.
As long as we both agree on the tenancy agreement T&C and the flat is ok, then I would willing to negociate.

Will see what happens and thanks for your advice

Cheerio,
Antonio

georgeingozo wrote:

Let's say a week before lease expires you are admitted to hospital, or. Are In the UK and for some reason can't return. If you are a 1 day late that's a 3000 bill

Well, that's true but that would be really unlucky and if I would leave in good terms, only someone really nasty would do that.

You are being very trusting. I wouldn't.