Overseas Vietnamese (Người Việt Hải Ngoại) returning to Vietnam

Ciambella:  I am curious how you determined that the OP Tyel was female.  I looked in the bio page after you started using feminine pronouns but I don't see it.  Perhaps it was somewhere in the text, or even in a PM.

I would also like to make a positive comment on Tyel's English fluency.  Other than a small tense error, which is oddly in her very first sentence, I have not noticed the kinds of writing errors that are often made by European writers here.  As she has not told us of any period of residence or study in Britain or elsewhere, this level of writing correctness is commendable.  I expect she could muster a near perfect IELTS writing score.  Not all the native speakers on this forum write as well as she does.

THIGV wrote:

Ciambella:  I am curious how you determined that the OP Tyel was female.  I looked in the bio page after you started using feminine pronouns but I don't see it.  Perhaps it was somewhere in the text, or even in a PM.

I would also like to make a positive comment on Tyel's English fluency.  Other than a small tense error, which is oddly in her very first sentence, I have not noticed the kinds of writing errors that are often made by European writers here.  As she has not told us of any period of residence or study in Britain or elsewhere, this level of writing correctness is commendable.  I expect she could muster a near perfect IELTS writing score.  Not all the native speakers on this forum write as well as she does.

For your question:  No, Tyel didn't PM me, probably because my verbosity on the forum scared her from PMing me.  I determined her gender by looking at her avatar, a program-generated image reserved to female gender based on the poster's disclosure at the time of registration.  I know most people do not want to give out too many personal information, but I trust that members are at least being forthright about their gender, location, and citizenship.  Even though we all have encountered several people who lied repeatedly about the last two, those are, thankfully (ironic, isn't it?), all trolls. 

I completely agree with your observation on Tyel's English, but the fact that she hardly speaks Vietnamese might have been a contributing factor to her beautiful writing.  In my experience, both as an ESL tutor in the States and Italy, and as a mother of two incredible writers, children of other heritages who are raised by parents who speak only English at home and who stretch the importance of speaking well tend to be acute about grammar, structure, and texture of the language.  They don't just understand the whys, they can feel and express the hows with better fluidity than people who never have to think in another language during the formative years.

Most native speakers are not required by their parents and teachers to speak well (let alone to write well) thus their brains are not forced to function out of the comfort zone.  The expectation placed on children of other heritages is usually higher than on children of native speakers.

THIGV wrote:

Ciambella:  I am curious how you determined that the OP Tyel was female.  I looked in the bio page after you started using feminine pronouns but I don't see it.  Perhaps it was somewhere in the text, or even in a PM.

I would also like to make a positive comment on Tyel's English fluency.  Other than a small tense error, which is oddly in her very first sentence, I have not noticed the kinds of writing errors that are often made by European writers here.  As she has not told us of any period of residence or study in Britain or elsewhere, this level of writing correctness is commendable. I expect she could muster a near perfect IELTS writing score.  Not all the native speakers on this forum write as well as she does.

Hey @THIGV, how did we end up talking about my English fluency here?  Thank you but to be honest, I don't think it's worth an extra mention here. I am sure there are tons of others who are way more proficient and make less comma mistakes.

Other than a small tense error, which is oddly in her very first sentence,...
Oh, which one? 

To satisfy your curiosity: I learned English at school but it wasn't really useful for the daily communication apart from the lack of opportunities to practice back then. One day I applied for a job at an international company where a high level of English proficiency was required. I was scared a lot to apply but I finally gave myself a push and landed the job. It turned out that many of my new colleagues were on the same English level as me if not even a bit lower. Now I usually encourage people to not be disillusioned by a job description, even though a high level of English proficiency or native speaker level is required.

How I improved: I am now working in a sector since a few years that is mainly communicating in English which did and does the trick, hence learning and failing on the go was very helpful. Also I am currently living in a city that is considered as one of the international hubs in Europe in terms of this specific sector, so a lot of expats do their rounds here. To be fair, it is worth it to mention that being surrounded by activists from around the globe helped me to shape my acuteness of mind, too (for which I am very grateful). Please apologize that I won't expose myself to the world too much here, so I prefer to keep further details private.

Can you connect the dots now?

Ciambella wrote:

For your question:  No, Tyel didn't PM me, probably because my verbosity on the forum scared her from PMing me.

You didn't scare me at all, you rather impress me with being so supportive and patient here. And I like your critical thinking and being outspoken a lot. So far I haven't thought of bothering you with tons of questions that may had already been answered in this forum.

Ciambella wrote:

I determined her gender by looking at her avatar, a program-generated image reserved to female gender based on the poster's disclosure at the time of registration.  I know most people do not want to give out too many personal information, but I trust that members are at least being forthright about their gender, location, and citizenship.  Even though we all have encountered several people who lied repeatedly about the last two, those are, thankfully (ironic, isn't it?), all trolls.

Right, you hit the nail. Speaking of that, I can't remember, if expat.com allows to also register other genders than male and female? If not, I am wondering why since this may help this forum to be more inclusive, and to reflect the diversity of our world.

Ciambella wrote:

I completely agree with your observation on Tyel's English, but the fact that she hardly speaks Vietnamese might have been a contributing factor to her beautiful writing.  In my experience, both as an ESL tutor in the States and Italy, and as a mother of two incredible writers, children of other heritages who are raised by parents who speak only English at home and who stretch the importance of speaking well tend to be acute about grammar, structure, and texture of the language.  They don't just understand the whys, they can feel and express the hows with better fluidity than people who never have to think in another language during the formative years.

Most native speakers are not required by their parents and teachers to speak well (let alone to write well) thus their brains are not forced to function out of the comfort zone.  The expectation placed on children of other heritages is usually higher than on children of native speakers.

This explanation sounds reasonable for a lot of migrated people (not all of course). Thanks for putting this into words.

myvietnam wrote:

"German looking for info ..." and "German expat" is a bit harsh, and actually misleading in terms of the situation. and, btw, i do not see any information about current citizenship? what options/rights does Vietnam birth (and i presume Viet parents) give you?

Hey there, thank you, I probably get what you mean. Yeah, I think you pointed out a part that is missing to select here at expat.com:

1. Born in a country
2. Migrated to another country
3. Gave up the original passport
4. Returning to the country of birth (and keeping the non-original passport in the first years)

Even though one is officially German the term 'German expat' may not reflect how a person really feels and doesn't want to be considered as/mixed up with (as a white German).

That's why I chose 'Vietnamese expat' even though I know it's officially wrong. [Why there is no facepalm emoji here?]

tyel wrote:

Other than a small tense error, which is oddly in her very first sentence,...
Oh, which one? 

Here it is: 

tyel wrote:

Hi there, I am Tyel. I was born in Vietnam but live in Germany almost my whole life.

As "was born" is in a past tense the next clause has to be parallel so it should read "I was born in Vietnam but lived in Germany almost my whole life."  Furthermore, the term "my whole life" implies the passage of time and so calls for a past tense verb.

As I hope you understood, this is the kind of tense error that native English speakers make all the time.  Maybe part of why I am aware of this is because I just finished grading about 90 essays for three 10th grade classes and only one student among them was a non-native speaker. 

Part of the reason you may have made this error may be that "was born" is a passive voice construct while "lived" is active.  I usually tell students to avoid passive voice in writing but It's pretty hard not to use it when you are talking about being born which is passive as a concept.  We may think we push our way out but really our mothers are doing the work.  Notice that we are born (passive), but our mothers deliver (active.)

I agree that as a young lady you should avoid telling too much about your personal details but I appreciate your validation of my observation.   

"Right, you hit the nail. Speaking of that, I can't remember, if expat.com allows to also register other genders than male and female? If not, I am wondering why since this may help this forum to be more inclusive, and to reflect the diversity of our world."

How many genders do you want?

Biologically there are two, what people identify themselves to be is not biological.

Maybe it's safer to keep it as male and female to avoid any unnecessary abuse.

This is a forum about living and working as an expat, so I don't see the need to bring that change about.

THIGV wrote:

tyel wrote:

Other than a small tense error, which is oddly in her very first sentence,...
Oh, which one? 

Here it is: 

tyel wrote:

Hi there, I am Tyel. I was born in Vietnam but live in Germany almost my whole life.

As "was born" is in a past tense the next clause has to be parallel so it should read "I was born in Vietnam but lived in Germany almost my whole life."  Furthermore, the term "my whole life" implies the passage of time and so calls for a past tense verb.

As I hope you understood, this is the kind of tense error that native English speakers make all the time.  Maybe part of why I am aware of this is because I just finished grading about 90 essays for three 10th grade classes and only one student among them was a non-native speaker. 

Part of the reason you may have made this error may be that "was born" is a passive voice construct while "lived" is active.  I usually tell students to avoid passive voice in writing but It's pretty hard not to use it when you are talking about being born which is passive as a concept.  We may think we push our way out but really our mothers are doing the work.  Notice that we are born (passive), but our mothers deliver (active.)

I agree that as a young lady you should avoid telling too much about your personal details but I appreciate your validation of my observation.   

Oh nice, thank you for the catch and explanation.

In German we would use the past and present in a phrase: 'Ich wurde zwar in X geboren, lebe aber schon mein ganzes Leben in X."

@colinoscapee

colinoscapee wrote:

How many genders do you want?

It's not about how many genders I want. It's about the structural barrier that limits people to join expat.com.

colinoscapee wrote:

Biologically there are two, what people identify themselves to be is not biological.

Right, sex (biological) and gender (social) are different. So, is your gender the social part that defines who you are, how you think, who you desire, who you like to hang out with, what topics you like to talk about, etc. or your biological part? Why is it so important to register your sex, if expat.com is about social life?

colinoscapee wrote:

Maybe it's safer to keep it as male and female to avoid any unnecessary abuse.

I agree that people should look for their safety first and choose the way they feel most comfortable with. On the other side, how long do people have to continue hiding until they feel seen and valued as human beings and part of the society? How long do we want them to hide (and not register) and put the burden only on them instead of just simply vowing for more gender options (or at least the option not to say) to choose on registration? It may not happen soon (or may take decades) but the more we see more gender options than two in public the more it can become not a big deal one day.

colinoscapee wrote:

This is a forum about living and working as an expat, so I don't see the need to bring that change about.

If you tell me that you are hungry and I tell you that you don't need to eat, how would you feel? What is normal and accessable for you does not mean it is also accessible for others. Why not leave it up to those to choose their gender beyond man and woman, if you personally do not face any registration issues? It doesn't hurt, does it? Besides, who is eligible to have an expat life and what does it entail? Do you think that people beyond men and women do not search for a book store, have questions about visa or jobs, want to meet new friends, plan to open a business, etc.? Or asked differently, what do you think would be so different?

I think we are getting too off-topic now, sorry about that. I don't mind to stop the discussion here (or/and continue it somewhere else). Anyways, I did not want to leave your last response unreplied.

Thanks for your contribution to this question, Colin!