Law or Agent tactics. Paying commission on a house bought privately.

No, not normal at all. But agencies take commissions from both the seller and the buyer, from the buyer can be as high as 5%. If you never signed anything you have no obligations. Best Olivia

That's what I thought but the agent said if I go through with the purchase they will pursue legal action against me for my part of the commission. Thanks for the reply much appreciated.

No. The agent is wrong. The owner has presumably signed an exclusive agreement with the agency.   You shouldnt have called the agent however.   You would be liable for commission had the agent put you into contact with the owner and you subsequently bought privately.  In your case you did the deal without the agent, and the owner - foolishly - then went to an agency.   If she sells privately asis your case, she will have to pay the agency all the commission (including your half if the agency decides to go to court).  You do not have to pay a penny to the agency, and you should put it in writing that you did not find the house, negotiate or fix the price with the agency and therefore under article 1755 of the Civil Code you are not obliged to give him anything.  It would be also worth checking that the agent is legitimate because a proper agent wouldnt try to shaft you in this way.

Hi,
In general terms the italian Civil Code  statueat art. 1755 cod. civ. “Il mediatore ha diritto alla provvigione [c.c. 1758] da ciascuna delle parti, se l'affare è concluso [c.c. 1748] per effetto del suo intervento [c.c. 1757, 2950]."

"The mediator is entitled to a commission [cc 1758] by each of the parties, if the deal is concluded [c.c. 1748] as a result of his intervention [cc 1757, 2950]."

This is in general, but if the agreement between the seller and the agent provides, that the commission will be charged only or also upon the purchaser, you will be obliged to pay that commission.

At this point better you ask a copy of the agreement between the seller and the agent in order to know exactly how it runs.

Thank you for all replies. I will try to get a copy of the contract the seller signed.

So Carlo are you suggesting that the seller could have signed an agreement with the agent that would oblige me legally to pay the agent even though I never signed anything or used his services? To clarify I didn't call the agent. My cousin,who has power of attorney for me to sign the deed when the time comes called the agent because the agent showed up at his house uninvited twice, while he wasn't present requesting to know if I had purchased the property and if so to notify us that he will be owed commission on the sale. My cousin diverted the agent to the seller claiming ignorance and reiterating that we have no agreement with the agent.

Who knows. Maybe yes or not. Depends. Anyway better to get a glance into the agreement. In my opinion the civil code prevails, if you have had no contact with the agent or the deal has been closed whitout his intervention the seller has to pay the commission, even if the agreement says the adverse, but in one case the Corte di Cassazione ( our Supreme Court) has sentenced what I've said about the agreement that can oblige you. Just to let you know, I'm a CPA and one of our lawyers is specialised in real estate and we will be glad to give you a quick consultancy about your case, do you?

Hi Carlo .. thanks for the offer. I will try to get the contract to be ready for a consult. I imagine there would be fees for this.

Theere is no contract an agent can impose which is onerous on one party without their knowing about it.    He is just trying it on, or does not know the law.  I have been an agent for 15 years and what the agent is claiming is impossible if the situation is as you say it is.   I would write, ask for a letter confirming that he will not be asking you for commission  as he was not involved in any way with your potential purchase, or to explain why he thinks he has the right to commission from you.       He can charge the seller double, but he cannot ask you for a penny.

Yes of course, If you ask for that consultancy I will submit you my best proposal.
In order to have a correc approach to the agreement issue, it is more than obvious that a part can't be obliged in force of a clausee he did not signed, but the topic is that the seller must inform you about that, and in some circumstance the edge is very thin. So As said in my opinion you are not obliged to pay the agent, based on the info you disclosed. But this will be supported by a lawyer opinion.
Best regards
CArlo

Thanks for the reply. This is what i thought that he can't request money from me but he's claiming he will take legal action if i move forward and buy the property. I did get some additional information. Apparently the seller even told the agent at the signing of the contract that she had 2 interested parties , myself and another, that she would be handling herself. The agent was never involved with the showing or negotiating of the price. Myself and the seller handled all that over email and with the help of my cousin in Italy. This morning the seller notified me she was embarrassed at the agent's behavior and she would send him a legal letter right away but i'm still hesitant to sign anything at this point until the issue is cleared.

This is very very weird. Of course don't sign anything at all.   If the seller had 2 buyers why did she need an agent?  It can all be easily done by a notary, with no agent.  I also find it weird that someone on this site is offering you a consultancy, for a fee.  Notaries give free advice, by the way. A question-you mentioned a classified website.  What's that?

So to clarify I found the property on subito.it which is a classified listing site. I reached out to the seller and another person did too. We chatted for a few months back and forth during the pandemic before coming to an agreement but to answer your question about why she got an agent involved, I assume she got the agency involved in case neither one of us was a serious buyer in the end.  I did find out that the agent did show the property to other potential buyers who might have been interested but not to me.

Noce move. Stay at the window.

I think the seller has not been up-front with you and the agents are trying it on as they have not been involved in the negotiations or viewing with you they are not entitled to commission from you only the seller, who is probably told them they wont pay the full % + tax at 22% amount.
Personally I would step aside and see what the seller is up to, as with 2 potential buyers, an aggressive agency plus the virus issues, it might be best to pause the potential purchase, there are so many properties on offer currently you will easily find another with out these unnecessary difficulties. Buying a property is stressful enough without a seller muddying the waters
Subito.it is a lot like Craigslist where individuals can list items for sale. We have a property for sale and we are using both personal ads on websites and agents as unlike the Canada/USA/UK agents put a listing on their website and list with gate-away and expect a buyer to walk in the door waving a check and don't promote properties well. If a buyer approaches us though one of the sites we have utilized  the buyer can select a notary ( this is the buyers right) and we can progress without agents fees on either side which is a considerable saving.
Please note it is not legal for someone to sign a document they don't fully understand so if your Italian is less than perfect or your signer's is you will need the compromesso (that details all the property, - be aware fixtures and fittings do not apply if not listed so the seller can remove the kitchen, lights etc if not listed- boundary,terms and conditions of the date of exchange and atto). We know of a company in the USA who have an Italian agency in Rome who can cover all these requirements or an independent translator who is legally certified to translate legal documents in Munich one via email should you need this assistance.
Good luck,
Marguerite

Thanks for all the replies. The seller has assured me that the agent is not acting in good faith and she has sent a legal letter to the agent. I requested a written confirmation from the agent that confirms I'm not responsible for any commission on this property now or in the future in order to move forward with the acquisition.

@Carlo Veronese - For my own situation as a buyer worried about the trustworthiness of my agent (who is representing both parties), who do I ask for the agreement between seller and agent -- is the agent obliged to provide it or should I go directly to the seller? Thanks! -Chris

Hello christaton,

Welcome to Expat.com

As you have noticed, this thread has been inactive since 2020.

I suggest you start a new thread on the Italy forum to ask your questions.

You are more likely to find information like that.

All the best,

Cheryl

Expat.com team