Solar Power

I've been looking into this myself on and off for some years.  The FIT (Feed In Tariff) is not really worth anything unless you're over 50kW output - i.e. commercial level of output.

There's been discussion in these forums that it might be like that because of the new Russian built/owned expansion of the nuclear power station at Paks.   Government needs people to buy the power from the $Billions investment.

My own motivation was not so much earning money from the FIT like it is or was possible in other countries.   I was motivated to be more self-sufficient, independent of the grid as much as possible and to avoid crises like Putin turning off the gas.  I also thought I could charge an electric car for free. 

I decided hot water was probably really not viable without excess building work and no space for the cylinder so we've got an air sourced heat pump which is surprisingly good for space heating but doesn't heat water.

I have subsequently seen solar panels with hot water in a combined unit.   Even so I think probably I'd just go for PV so that it's easier to install.  I have limited roof space pointing in the right direction. I may have  to mount my panels on sun tracking brackets.   

BTW, I see off the shelf systems with 4kW which would be about 16 panels - top power is 250W per panel currently.   Here, I think we would need 7-8 kW to make sense and average out to say 4-5kW continuously during day time.  I'd need 32 panels which is just too many to fit on my property.   I have an outbuilding I could get  about 8 panels on (also would need a new roof so higher cost).  So I might end up with 8 panels on my house and 8 on my outbuilding with complex cabling.  Add in sufficient overnight battery storage and it becomes mega bucks. 

Not for the feint of heart and definitely needs decent planning.  I don't think I would need planning permission from the local government though.

Thank you very much for your answer. I have the same motivation for an install: autonomy and resilience. I understand this would not be a quick money maker as can be with favorable FIT, but over time, it should pay for itself, on top of adding that layer of resilience.

Out of curiosity, just how bad is this FIT? And is it different between energy providers or a fixed national price?

In case you perform the install yourself, is the procedure complex (and costly) to have it connected to the grid (through your provider)

totony wrote:

Thank you very much for your answer. I have the same motivation for an install: autonomy and resilience. I understand this would not be a quick money maker as can be with favorable FIT, but over time, it should pay for itself, on top of adding that layer of resilience.

Out of curiosity, just how bad is this FIT? And is it different between energy providers or a fixed national price?

In case you perform the install yourself, is the procedure complex (and costly) to have it connected to the grid (through your provider)

As I said, when I looked at it the FIT, it as uneconomic for private installations if that was the original motivation. I don't recall the amount but it wouldn't really be worth it on a small scale.   As I said at the time, if you are capable of generating over 50kW then the FIT was just about workable but I seem to think it was a sliding scale.  It's not like other countries where it's a worthwhile income generator - there's no money to be made or offset unless you can use the power financially efficiently like to charge electric vehicles (road fuel is taxed highly and the solar is free of course).   

On the other hand, I have seen smaller scale installations on buildings like car repair workshops and supermarkets here (I think it was Aldi).  Presumably they use all their own power themselves as the supermarket would have a fairly constant demand like freezers. Not really the same as background domestic loads which might only  be a fridge and/or central heating pump depending.
Domestic electric solar would not be able to heat water or run an airco/heat pump unit.   The power demands are too high.

When we built our house here we put in all the conduits for the solar cabling ready for the installation but haven't got around to actually doing it as we have other things to do. 

You must (obviously) have the power company connect you to their distribution system.  I do not know exactly how much it costs but I expect they'll want to install their own meter, possibly remotely monitored,  to measure how much you supply to the grid.   

The electricians  who did the building wiring here took care of the part up to the meters.  Thereafter we had some other guy who I think was an authorised contractor to the power company.  He did all the stuff including the meter and the final connection to the meter.  We have overhead wiring to a street pole so there was no underground work.  I don't think it was a lot of money - I'm guessing a bit now but it was no more than like EUR 500-600. 

One thing to note is that we have three phase on site here which was normal when the original house was built - semi-industrial power for operating things like water heaters and machines.  At the time of rebuild this was an optional extra as there was a cheaper option to have single phase at 20A. Apparently single phase is normal now in residential property here.  We elected to continue with three phase - might be 3 x 20A (don't remember, it's on the bills).  The reason we kept (insisted) on three phase was because we wanted to be able to install a high speed electric car charger at some point.   The charging rate on three phase is really high compared to single phase. 

We don't have an electric car as they are not very good price/performance compared to petrol/diesel.  When they get to ranges of 600-800km in all weathers/seasons and less than say 5-7M HUF new with long warranty on the batteries then it would be worth thinking about it and that would be a decision point on the solar as well.

i am very interested at installing solar on the roof unlike australia which has 1000 of companys i tried looking seems that hungary doesnt really have many company

petromaya wrote:

i am very interested at installing solar on the roof unlike australia which has 1000 of companys i tried looking seems that hungary doesnt really have many company

No, they don't.   The reasons were posted previously and it's partially political. 

The FIT is rubbish and the new Russian nuclear power station has to be paid for.   

This provides something like 40% or more of all the HU power needs.   

I will probably have solar panels at some point but I want them to charge a car and to be more independent of the grid.

Australia is altogether a different place - large distances between infrastructure and no grid access so being independent is just normal practice.  They also have loads of sunshine so it's a no-brainer.

You could look at Austria over the border. They are doing more and solar power.

On Solar power, I am very happy that it even exists, we have some installed (by the previous owner) and it works perfectly (not for my car (diesel)) but gas is switched off from mid April (by me) and warm water is fine until mid-October.
Electricity and gas are relatively cheap in Hungary, but still I am happy to have Solar power as well. (100 years ago things were different and I feel that whatever we can do in terms of alternatives is good).
I have to say (probably partially due to Solar) we have very acceptable gas and electricity bills.
Personally I am in favor of nuclear energy (as compared to fossil), but clearly using solar, wind,... is even better.
We try to save on energy a bit, in our case in winter we only live on the ground floor, the rest of the house is left alone. (One could call this a green approach, others would say we are greedy (in saving on bills). Solar energy is definitely a thing which should be supported.
BTW good solar weather is predicted in our area at least for the upcoming week.

Last remark, we "inherited" solar power, but honestly to install right now in Hungary I doubt if it will give any financial savings. (Still I think it is good to have it)

My dad had solar installed back in Wales (not a particularly sunny place).  It powers the house and leftover goes back into the grid that helps pay for his gas.

Must have been a very effective installation, ours (in Hungary) provides quite a bit, but only for spring/Summer/autumn (and not even full).
Winter (on Solar only) is out of the question, but again fine (far far less then we had to pay before)

Well done for Wales I have to say.

This week in Hungary will be a good one (loads of sunshine, a bit cold, but fine)

SimCityAT wrote:

You could look at Austria over the border. They are doing more and solar power.

Reminds me of what happened to Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant. 

Mixed power generation is the norm now - solar, wind, nuclear, hydro, coal etc.   Some countries have really ambitious targets for renewables.   I've dabbled a bit in this area and it's really interesting the changes that have taken place in the past 10-15 years.

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

You could look at Austria over the border. They are doing more and solar power.

Reminds me of what happened to Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant. 

Mixed power generation is the norm now - solar, wind, nuclear, hydro, coal etc.   Some countries have really ambitious targets for renewables.   I've dabbled a bit in this area and it's really interesting the changes that have taken place in the past 10-15 years.

Nuclear waste is even banned to be transported anywhere in Austria.

We do have a few bus shelters lights in remote areas that are powered by solar and street lights. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Same here, very effective and practical (is it the same?)

SimCityAT wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

You could look at Austria over the border. They are doing more and solar power.

Reminds me of what happened to Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant. 

Mixed power generation is the norm now - solar, wind, nuclear, hydro, coal etc.   Some countries have really ambitious targets for renewables.   I've dabbled a bit in this area and it's really interesting the changes that have taken place in the past 10-15 years.

Nuclear waste is even banned to be transported anywhere in Austria.

Makes me wonder if Austria (or anyone else against nuclear) benefits from power generated by nuclear means in other countries via the European interconnect system.

Also reminds me of a sticker I had on one of my suitcases way back when - Atomkraft? Nein Danke.

SimCityAT wrote:

We do have a few bus shelters lights in remote areas that are powered by solar and street lights. Makes a lot of sense to me.

It's a good idea but the problem is always the batteries.  They don't last.  7 years replacement cycle and hazardous waste.

But I must say I've been replacing my halogen flood lights with LEDs and the differences are startling - 500W halogen vs 20-50W LEDs units.  So 10% of the power or less and about the same lumens. Stunning difference in consumption.  I don't know if LEDs are more green in manufacturing compared to halogen.

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

We do have a few bus shelters lights in remote areas that are powered by solar and street lights. Makes a lot of sense to me.

It's a good idea but the problem is always the batteries.  They don't last.  7 years replacement cycle and hazardous waste.

But I must say I've been replacing my halogen flood lights with LEDs and the differences are startling - 500W halogen vs 20-50W LEDs units.  So 10% of the power or less and about the same lumens. Stunning difference in consumption.  I don't know if LEDs are more green in manufacturing compared to halogen.

My outside lights are all LED now oh I do have a solar outside light, gives enough light for going to the bin. In fact, they are inside reducing the electricity bill.

SimCityAT wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

We do have a few bus shelters lights in remote areas that are powered by solar and street lights. Makes a lot of sense to me.

It's a good idea but the problem is always the batteries.  They don't last.  7 years replacement cycle and hazardous waste.

But I must say I've been replacing my halogen flood lights with LEDs and the differences are startling - 500W halogen vs 20-50W LEDs units.  So 10% of the power or less and about the same lumens. Stunning difference in consumption.  I don't know if LEDs are more green in manufacturing compared to halogen.

My outside lights are all LED now oh I do have a solar outside light, gives enough light for going to the bin. In fact, they are inside reducing the electricity bill.

Same here. LED everywhere.  We use solar Xmas lights now outside for the tree etc.   

But I did make a mistake of stockpiling ordinary bulbs because the only alternative was those fluorescent type bulbs which give rubbish light and I feared the EU clampdown.  Then the LEDs came.  Now I've a box of ye olde filament bulbs I've no idea what to do with.    Didn't bet on the right horse there.

Don't get me started on vacuum cleaner power and the EU.  We have one pre-regulation vacuum cleaner and they are much better than the other post-regulation one we have.   Got that horse right.

One thing I've done is educate myself on what lumens are in practical terms.  Now I've got a handle on it, I can check the bulbs and decide if it's powerful enough.  I can now do both old money (Watts) and new money (Lumens) and have an idea what it means.    Outside floodlights - nothing under 2000 lumen.

They are still selling the old style light bulbs here, I thought the EU had banned them totally?