Retirement Visa for Brazil

I'm a US veteran on full disability that's retired.  My care wouldn't be a cost burden on Brazil.  I'm under 40 though, was wondering if they overlook age on a case-by-case basis if you can prove solvency?  I'm not very interested in spending 200k on a property right now with a massive recession coming up and would much rather stay liquid to take advantage of the market.  Making a move in about 8 months, but want to see if I can eliminate Brazil as I will be spending the next 8 months learning either Spanish for Mexico or Portuguese for Brazil as it's my number one choice. Already sold my car so getting to the consulate is a pain and from what I see they don't correspond through email. Any insight would be great!

04/30/23 I'm a US veteran on full disability that's retired. My care wouldn't be a cost burden on Brazil. I'm under 40 though, was wondering if they overlook age on a case-by-case basis if you can prove solvency? I'm not very interested in spending 200k on a property right now with a massive recession coming up and would much rather stay liquid to take advantage of the market. Making a move in about 8 months, but want to see if I can eliminate Brazil as I will be spending the next 8 months learning either Spanish for Mexico or Portuguese for Brazil as it's my number one choice. Already sold my car so getting to the consulate is a pain and from what I see they don't correspond through email. Any insight would be great!
-@Mannimal

Welcome! What Brazilian Consulate would you be applying for your visa through? Some of them are only working by mail still, and haven't returned to in-person services since the start of the pandemic.

There is no published age limit for the current retirement visa, at least not yet. You should understand, though, that it's a new visa, the first ones issued are just coming up for renewal now, and there still unanswered questions and inconsistent practices around it. The old retirement visa that was abolished in 2017 had a minimum age of 60; even though that did not carry through to the new one, you may run into some officials who think that it did.

One of the most important questions for you -- not one that you have to answer here, but one that you want to be extremely honest with yourself about -- is how is your mobility? Brazil is a country where accommodations for people with disabilities range from rudimentary to non-existent. The arrival of Uber has made getting around Brazilian cities much easier and less expensive than it was before, but the quality of sidewalks is often poor when they exist at all, and they tend to do the unexpected, like climb up and down hills on sudden flights of stairs, short or long. Some stairs in buildings have been retrofitted with ramps, many have not.

It's good that you plan to learn Portuguese if you decide on Brazil, because this is a largely monolingual country. Eight months probably won't make you absolutely fluent, but it should be enough to meet your basic needs.

One more thing to consider: Brazil is far away. Americans tend to think that north-south distances are shorter than east-west distances, but São Paulo is over twice as far from New York City as Mexico City is. That distance makes a difference in many things, from having people visit to getting home for an emergency.

Sorry if I come off as a downer. Brazil is great in a lot of ways, but there are real downsides, and knowing about them can only help your decision. Any further questions, please don't hesitate.

@abthree Appreciate the response.  My mobility is good and work on it every day to keep it that way.  Distance isn't a problem, I was going to honestly slow travel the world west if I didn't have the dog.  Brazil is about as far a flight away as Im willing to subject too (or without expensive moving processes).  Something did dawn on me though and thats the weather as they dont let dogs fly cargo when its 85 or above, which could be problematic with the opposite seasons and me living in Florida.

@Mannimal The big question appears to be mobility, however I may have missed the income part. Are you bringing money with you or are your disability payments enough to succeed on. One of the best advices would be to be a constant visitor to EXPAT.COM. You will soon find out that many of our challenges are not what is often described in "Top 10 Pros and Cons of moving to Brazil" type YouTube channels.

This is far in advance, but be prepared to travel. Please let ALL authorities know that you may need help. The Sao Paulo airport, which 90% of travelers go thru, can be measured in football fields. It is just that big. The people are very friendly, so once they saw that I had trouble walking An agent chauffeured me all over in a wheelchair.

I just noticed the dog paragraph. Bringing Simba (Beagle / cocker spaniel mix) to Brazil from Boston / Logan Airport was THE most difficult thing I have ever done. Definitely study the Pets Travelling thread on EXPAT.COM. You mention the weather. That is because you actually purchase your ticket ONLY after your documents are approved, including the weather. Nothing substantial can be done until 10 days before travel when you get your Pets Health Certificate.

What size / breed is your dog? If you can have him / her designated as a "Service Dog" that would help greatly.

In terms of weather, have you decided where you want to live? I live in Northern Brazil where it is 84 degrees 365 days a year. Sao Paulo on the other hand seems to have more warm / cold seasons.

Good Luck,

Roddie in Retirement

@roddiesho my VA disability pension is more than enough  (3620 USD/month).  Mobility is not an issue.  Strangely enough my guy is named Simba too, but he's a 60lb doodle and he's just way too friendly to get tagged as a service dog.  Looking at starting in Rio and working from there.  I'm a youngish single guy so I figure that's a good spot, Florianopolis seems great too, but doesn't seem to have the beach mostly year-round weather I"m looking for right now.  My lease is up at the end of January (although I could probably re-up and just bounce in April) so that's when I'd be going, seems the temperature is borderline too bad depending on when my flight arrives. 

Regardless I need to look into all the documents I need to acquire and get those in ASAP to figure out if they'll approve me.  My dad had a live poultry/fowl wholesaler in the biggest Brazilian/Portuegues diaspora in the states (Newark NJ) so I'm pretty familiar with the culture and food (big fan) outside of the beurocracy (which seems par for the course in SA). 

@Mannimal do you know if the disability is taxed in Brazil? And get a immigration attorney he can do all the work for you

04/30/23 @Mannimal do you know if the disability is taxed in Brazil? And get a immigration attorney he can do all the work for you
-@freshbatchoflean

Immigration attorneys can be pretty hard to find in Brazil; it's not a popular specialization, and Brazilian law schools teach immigration law (to the extent that they teach it at all) as part of international law.  For immigration questions, it's usually enough to hire a good general attorney who doesn't mind doing the research.

For tax questions, an accountant will be much more helpful.

@freshbatchoflean I don't believe it is as of 2018 from what I saw.  I'm trying to figure out if capital gains are taxed in country because the rates are higher than the US.  From what I understand as long as you keep it offshore in offshore banks you can pay your capital gains taxes to the US as they really have no way of checking and enforcement isn't what it is in the US.  Even if it isn't, the rates aren't that much more, but I'd be curious about anyone that has experience.

@Mannimal Congratulations! Sounds like your well on your way. If your SIMBA is 60lb. definitely study the Pets Travel thread on Expat.com

Roddie in Retirement!

@Mannimal they'll never know what capital gains your making if your using US broker and US bank so you should be good on that , to get retirement visa you have to show them your VA benefit letter so they'll know what you make but like you said I think as long as it's deposited in a U.S. bank I think we're good.

05/01/23 @Mannimal they'll never know what capital gains your making if your using US broker and US bank so you should be good on that , to get retirement visa you have to show them your VA benefit letter so they'll know what you make but like you said I think as long as it's deposited in a U.S. bank I think we're good.
-@freshbatchoflean

All legal residents in Brazil are subject to income tax, if they meet the income thresholds. Tax evasion is a crime in Brazil. Besides being a tough way to live, twisting one's self into a financial pretzel to fly under the radar may not even be effective, since every resident has a CRNM and a CPF, and Brazil and the United States exchange banking information.

I understand that there are tropical countries in the Western Hemisphere that don't tax retirement income. Any of them might be a better choice for anyone who cares so much about taxes that they're prepared to start breaking the law on arrival, and keep breaking it until they leave or get caught.

I was just quoted at 5800 reals for an immigration attorney.....does that seem like a fair price?   Would you suggest doing it by yourself or going through an attorney? I know the bureaucratic process can be tough and I don't speak Portuguese (not yet at least).  I sold my car a few months back so this factors some into my decision-making as I understand a lot of the stuff will need to be notarized and what not (I imagine they have people that do that). 

05/08/23  I was just quoted at 5800 reals for an immigration attorney.....does that seem like a fair price?  Would you suggest doing it by yourself or going through an attorney? I know the bureaucratic process can be tough and I don't speak Portuguese (not yet at least). I sold my car a few months back so this factors some into my decision-making as I understand a lot of the stuff will need to be notarized and what not (I imagine they have people that do that).
-@Mannimal

Your best bet is to get a VITEM XIV visa from the Brazilian Consulate for your state if you're still stateside.  They accept documents in English, and don't require apostilles on federal documents, documents issued by the states in their consular districts or documents notarized in their consular districts.  You can do that on your own.

If you come to Brazil on a tourist visa and don't speak Portuguese, you're going to need help.  R$5800 is not unreasonable, if the attorney is trustworthy and competent, and willing to handle everything for you.  I don't know how you'd be able to judge that from a distance, though.

@abthree they had mentioned that Florida consulate is all mail still.  Would that be an issue?

That seems about 3X too high to me. I am in the middle of the retirement visa process myself. I am in Brazil gathering the documents for my retirement visa application, then flying to the US to mail my application (with my US passport!) to the Brazilian consulate in Atlanta, US. I will then pick up my visa (and US passport!) and have it stamped at Brazilian customs on my return flight to brazil. I am doing all of this myself (with Abthree's help!)

Once I get back to Brazil with my stamped visa, there are a number of steps that I must take to have it become official. Since I don't speak Portuguese I am having an attorney handle this for me.

I hope this helps,

Adam

Yeh it seems Im much better doing all this stuff myself and when I get to Brazil finding an attorney to do the last leg.

@abthree will I have a hiccup if my birth certificate is from NJ (I have the official) but using the Florida consulate?

05/08/23 @abthree will I have a hiccup if my birth certificate is from NJ (I have the official) but using the Florida consulate?
-@Mannimal

My birth certificate was from New York and I used the Brazilian Consulate General in Chicago, but it had an embossed seal so they accepted it without question.

05/08/23 Yeh it seems Im much better doing all this stuff myself and when I get to Brazil finding an attorney to do the last leg.
-@Mannimal

If your plan is to arrive with the right visa, than the part with the Polícia Federal shortly after arriving in Brazil should be pretty straightforward, and alevinthal is right that in that case, R$5800 would be too much.  In fact, you may even be able to do it yourself with the document you receive from the Consulate.  Be sure to ask them how to register with the PF when you get here.  Where do you plan to arrive in Brazil?

Hello all,

I just submitted my retirement visa electronically, can anyone give me an idea how long the approval took from that point to the next step to consulate visit (NY in my case) to receive the actual visa.

thanks in advance for any information.

@schuett17 I asked that question to the atlanta consulate and they said 6 to 20 days plus shipping time.

@schuett17

Bom dia! 

When I sent mine electronically to the Chicago Consulate last April, 2022, I was surprised that it only took them a few days to respond.  I needed to submit all my ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS (I did this via overnight US mail, with a PAID RETURN ENVELOPE). They received these the following day.  Then within about 5 working days they actuall sent everything back including  my 2 year Retirement Visa!  I was very surprised and HAPPY that the turn-around time was so quick. Hope your Consulate is quick and efficient also. 

That's great, I hope mine goes that smoothly!

@MA22 On your 2 year retirement visa. It expires after the first year and then you must get it renewed correct? At least mines is this way. It was issued May of 22, expiring this month. However at the bottom is says "PRAZO DE RESIDENCIA: 02 (DOIS ANOS)". So how long does it take to receive the renewed VISA placed inside your Passport at the PF? You can not renew it in the US. I am planning on visiting the US for a few days. I would like to know how long that I will not have my passport waiting for my new Visa. Do not need my passport locally, I have CRNM. But would like to purchase my plane ticket.

05/19/23 @Houston_Rio.  As long as your CRNM is valid, it shouldn't matter that your visa has expired.  Your passport and your CRNM are sufficient to re-enter Brazil.

@knedelisky So when your husband went to PF to renew his temporary retirement visa, how long did they keep his passport. You can not renew the retirement visa in the US, it must be renewed at the PF. In my case Rio de Janeiro. However I will be returning to the US for a few weeks. I don't know how long the renewal process takes, so I am not able to purchase my plane ticket. If it's hours or days. My visa XIV is stamped expiring after one year and "PRAZO DE RESIDENCIA: O2 (DOIS ANOS). 

@abthree Ok, so you're saying do not hand in the passport to renew my Visa until I have returned to Brasil? Because if I book a flight before renewing my Visa, I may not have a passport to enter the US until my passport is returned to me depending on how long that takes. Hours, days. I suppose I will just walk over to the PF and simply ask them. Don't know why it's only a 12 months and the CRNM is two years. Keeps people doing something I suppose.

05/19/23 @Houston_Rio.  I'm assuming from what you've written that your CRNM is valid until sometime in 2024.  If that's NOT the case, please set me straight.

It's important to understand that a Visa and an Authorization for Residency are two completely different things.

A Visa gives a non-resident foreigner who's outside a country (Brazil in this case, but it applies to any country) permission to  request admission to the country at a port of entry.  Normally the person is admitted, but doesn't have to be.   A Brazilian Temporary Visa, like most of those in the VITEM series, including your VITEM XIV Retiree Visa, also serves as a pre-screening for residency, and provides an accelerated process when the immigrant registers with the Federal Police.  A visa cannot be obtained in Brazil, it can only be obtained at a Brazilian Embassy or Consulate abroad.  Only the Foreign Ministry can issue a visa.

An Authorization for Residency gives the applicant status as an legal resident of Brazil.  The proof of their legal residency is their CRNM, and their legal residency period is the validity period of the CRNM.  Only the Federal Police, an agency of the Justice Ministry, can issue an Authorization for Residency.  The process for someone with the right VITEM visa is pretty straighforward; the process for someone trying to upgrade a tourist visa is much more complicated, and success is less certain.

A legal resident of Brazil who travels outside the country -- someone like you -- doesn't need a visa to return:  their home country passport and their valid CRNM are sufficient.

I understand. I emailed the Brazilian consulate in Houston on May 5,  and inquired about renewal of the 12 month expiration of my VITEM XIV and was told "You can only renew it in Brazil with the Federal Police". At least this is the case for the Houston region. So I suppose that I will just walk to the PF and ask them how long does this renewal process take. That will help me to decide when to let them have my passport so that they may issue the renewal Visa. Yes my CRNM is valid until December 2024.

05/20/23 I understand. I emailed the Brazilian consulate in Houston on May 5, and inquired about renewal of the 12 month expiration of my VITEM XIV and was told "You can only renew it in Brazil with the Federal Police". At least this is the case for the Houston region. So I suppose that I will just walk to the PF and ask them how long does this renewal process take. That will help me to decide when to let them have my passport so that they may issue the renewal Visa. Yes my CRNM is valid until December 2024.
-@Houston_Rio

Even some Brazilian functionaries get confused on the difference between visas and residency authorization, or they assume that the immigrant is confused, and answer the question that they think the person is asking using their own terms. In addition, the current Retiree Visa is still so new that they're trying to figure out how to renew the residencies of the first people who got them two years ago, and confusion abounds.

You do not have to renew your VITEM XIV visa, as long as you have a valid CRNM. By all means, go talk to the Federal Police if it will ease your mind. But I can predict to you how that conversation will go, if it takes place at all:

You: I want to renew my Retiree Visa.

FP Officer: Please show me your CRNM.

(you show her your CRNM. She hands it back to you.)

FP Officer: You don't have to renew anything, Sir. You still have a year and half before your CRNM expires.

You: No, I mean I want to renew this. (You show her the visa in your passport)

FP Officer: Oh, you'd have to renew THAT at a Consulate.

PLEASE NOTE: NO Brazilian official in a conversation like this is going to ask to take and keep your passport, because there's no official process applicable to your status that requires your passport to be out of your possession. If a third party offers to "solve your (non-existent) problem" for you by taking your passport, it will almost undoubtedly be a scam. Genuine US Passports command high prices in the market for counterfeit documents, and scammers are always on the prowl to pick one up from the worried and unwary.

@Mannimal

Are your VA benefit payments taxable in Brazil?

@abthree Ok, thanks a ton. Eases my mind a lot. I will continue on until its time to renew my CRNM and cross that Visa VITEM XIV bridge some other time if by chance I somehow get to it. I suppose that bridge is for those that have not obtained a CRNM within a year and wish to extend or renew their Visa.

A quick update on the renewal of my CRNM.  I picked up the new card yesterday. Yay!  I am now authorized to stay until March 2025 (2 X 2 years from my original entry date).  With my CRNM, I can come and go without having to worry about the visas in my passport (I  have a valid tourist visa and an expired VITEM XIV). I am planning to travel to Mexico in October and on my return, I will be sure to present my CRNM as I reenter Brazil.

As one of the "early birds" getting the VITEM XIV / retirement visas in 2021, there was some doubt and confusion about the renewal process, as explained in earlier posts. The Aha! moment came when I (finally) was referred to the MigranteWeb run by the Ministry of Justice.  The Federal Police only come into the picture after the extension request has been approved by Justice and published in the Diário Oficial da União (DOU).

I submitted the required paperwork (FBI background check, statement from the Social Security Administration as proof of retirement and financial support, and birth certificate) as PDF attachments on the MigranteWeb.  I could only attach one document in each category so I was unsure whether to send in copies of the original apostilled documents or the officially certified translations. I went with the translations. The site acknowledged receipt of the documents and said I'd have a response with 30 days. After about 3 weeks I got an email requesting I submit (again via PDF on MigranteWeb) a copy of the original Social Security letter in English. Again, they said they'd get back to me within 30 days.  After about 3 ½ weeks with no news, I went online  back to MigranteWeb where I saw that my request to extend my stay had been authorized. At THAT point I contacted the local office of the Polícia Federal and they gave me a list of things I'd need to present in person to apply for the CRNM: my original documents including my passport and now-expired old CRNM, a copy of my approval by the Dept of Justice as printed in the DOU, a copy of the Normative Resolution that authorized this category of immigration to begin with, proof of residence (my electric bill) and proof that I'd pre-paid the fee for the PF to review it all. (This fee was in addition to the fee I'd  paid for the initial review by the Dept of Justice.) So that email came in on a Friday and also set up an appointment for me to meet the PF on Tuesday morning after a Monday holiday. I scrambled to the bank on Saturday morning to get the receipt I'd need to show.

The Tuesday interview went without a hitch except for problems with the agent's attempts to get all the info entered into the computer. It was her first time doung the procedure and she had to call in her supervisor a couple of times, finally having the supervisor standing behind her guiding her through the process. And at one point, getting on the phone with someone higher up to clarify some code that needed to be entered in some field on the computer screen. It was obviously not yet a routine procedure for this particular office.  But finally accomplished.

They took my paperwork to make copies of everything and returned everything to me along with a receipt showing my request for the new CRNM was in process and that I was indeed legally in the country.  They'd have the new card ready for me in 30 days.  As I mentioned, I picked it up yesterday, a week early.

All this was on my own, no agents or despachantes.  I'm not sure the process would hsve been much faster had I used one, since no one  locally seems to have gone through the process, but I might have been less stressed, thinking it was all in someone else's hands.  Bear in mind I started the process in January (CRNM expired March 10th) with a trip to the States to get the apostilled Soc Sec letter and FBI report.

Hope the detail helps the next guy.

05/28/23 @Viajanete. Congratulations!   Great description:  thank you.  I'm sure that it will help many others following in your footsteps.

Well, I'm still having issues with my CRNM renewal.  The latest status is saying they recommend rejecting my request because my letters regarding my pension were not apostiled.  My pension is from a private company and not the government, so as I understand it, an apostile does not apply.  I'm really at a loss since this is what I provided to the consulate when I first applied for the CRNM and it was fine.  Has anyone else had this issue with an apostile requirement for proof of income?

06/08/23 Well, I'm still having issues with my CRNM renewal. The latest status is saying they recommend rejecting my request because my letters regarding my pension were not apostiled. My pension is from a private company and not the government, so as I understand it, an apostile does not apply. I'm really at a loss since this is what I provided to the consulate when I first applied for the CRNM and it was fine. Has anyone else had this issue with an apostile requirement for proof of income?
-@mikehunter

The PF is being overly risk-averse, but they're within their rights.  Get the letter notarized,  then get the notary's seal apostilled.  That should solve the problem.

Notarized documents do not normally require apostilles at a consulate because Brazilian Consulates keep records of notaries active in their Consular Regions and can check the signatures against their own records.  Consular staff is usually very familiar with host country documents in general and will take the authority to waive the apostille if they think that the document looks legit.  None of that is true for the PF, so they tend to rely much more heavily on apostilles,

@abthree Thanks for the reply. This is still with Justice in Brasilia to complete the DOU part.  I'm no where near dealing with the PF yet.  When I first submitted all this to the consulate 2 years ago for the temporary visa, the proof of income letter wasn't even notarized. That's why I didn't think it would be needed now.

So, I think what you are saying is I have to contact my company and ask them to issue me a notarized letter?  (I'm sure they'll be thrilled... just hope they will do it.) Then depending on the state from which it was issued, send the notarized letter to the secretary of state for that jurisdiction so they can do the apostille? 

We're talking at least a month from start to finish, probably 2 months.

Now the other elephant in the room, it appears they are going to close the process and my crnm expired the end of May. Do I just do the normal renewal process again or do I have to start completely from the beginning and apply for the temporary Visa as if I never had a card?

What a mess - which begs the question, how on earth do they expect you to get all these documents notarized and apositled if you are still in Brazil. I'm back in the US now, so I can have them shipped to my house here and them mail them around, but if I was still in Brazil it would be next to impossible to accomplish. You'd probably have to hire a lawyer or find someone you trust to handle it.  Yet another thing to warn people about for their renewals. Ugh...

06/08/23 @abthree Thanks for the reply. When I first submitted all this to the consulate the proof of income letter wasn't even notarized. That's why I didn't think it would be needed now. I think what this means then is I have to contact my company and ask them to issue me a notarized letter (I'm sure they'll be thrilled... just hope they will do it._? Then depending on the state from which it was issued then send that to the secretary of state for that jurisdiction for the apostille? Now the other elephant in the room, it appears they are going to close the process and my crnm expired the end of May. Do I just do the normal renewal process again or do I have to start completely from the beginning and apply for the temporary Visa as if I never had a card? What a mess - which begs the question, how on earth do they expect you to get all these documents notarized and apositled if you are still in Brazil. I'm back in the US now, so I can have them shipped to my house here and them mail them around, but if I was still in Brazil it would be next to impossible to accomplish.
-@mikehunter

Since you're home (thank God!) and presumably have the letter in hand, do you know a local notary public who might be willing to notarize it for you? Believe me, the intricacies of American federalism are impenetrable to even the most intelligent Brazilians: you can be sure that an official-looking apostille from somewhere and a Sworn Translation will be enough to let the Polícia Federal tick off their box. If you were trying to falsify a document I wouldn't suggest this, but you're just trying to get a genuine document that's already been accepted once accepted again.

I don't have a good answer for your bigger question. I've had the same question for a long time. When I read the 2017 law for the first time, I went back immediately and read it again because I though that I had overlooked the Retiree Visa. At the end of the second reading, I had to admit that the Retiree Visa was just GONE -- really weird! Then when the new one was introduced, my first reaction was "these renewal provisions are crazy, They're going to have to ease up on them, or they're going to be overwhelmed with renewals." I still think that's going to happen, but their learning curve is a lot less steep than I expected.

@abthree Thanks for the quick reply.  Yeah, it's fortunate I'm back because this would have been impossible to do from Brazil.  I'm here for the summer so I luckily have time to contact my company and go through the steps.  Again, this is a huge warning for others approaching renewal.  You have to get a new document (can't be the one you used 2 years ago) and it has to be Apostilled.  In this instance it would be easier and faster if you could just go to the consulate and have them "legalize" it, but they won't do that in the US anymore.