ATM withdrawal limits with a local bank account and bank card

My Vietnamese bank, Ocean Bank, limits it to 5M per transaction, 30M per day for ATM as a default but I can go into the bank to sign paperwork and have that limit raised on the per-transaction limit and pretty sure the daily limit as well.  It's a fraud reduction thing, no different than the US.  I haven't had to do that since any other larger transactions I've been able to do on the phone app where I pay the other person directly from my account to theirs.  Typical larger transactions are 21M monthly for rent although 150M for a new moto was limited to 50M per phone transaction so I had to do three phone app transactions.

Okay thanks, but I find it a bit silly that the maximum per transaction is not the same as the daily limit. If you need to withdraw 12M, then you need to go through the process of withdrawing three times... but I think there are no fees if you use the ATM from your bank, right?

Yeah most banks only give out 3 mil max per withdrawal, which is a real joke in a cash-based country, and some even charge you 1k per withdrawal while you've an account with them ... "lol"

I know Sacom and Vietcom charge 1k per withdrawal, HD and VP charge nothing (talking about going to the ATM of the bank you've an account with)

HSBC gives out the most, 8 million last time i used it in Hanoi but for some strange reason it was about 7 at the saigon one. They only have a couple in city centers.

phikachu wrote:

HSBC gives out the most, 8 million last time i used it in Hanoi but for some strange reason it was about 7 at the saigon one. They only have a couple in city centers.

Almost a year ago, I was able to get 7 million per transaction from one of the two ATMs at this HSBC Hanoi branch:

HSBC Bank
6 Nhà Thờ
Hàng Trống
Hoàn Kiếm
Hà Nội

Google Maps link

I was there again last month and now the limit on both machines is ₫4,000,000 VNĐ using my U.S. Charles Schwab Visa debit card.

WillyBaldy wrote:

Hello folks,

I'll be spending about 7 months in Vietnam and I'm still in very good term with my former step family in Saigon and I was talking strategy with my ex Vietnamese wife who now lives in Canada how to best transfer money from Canada to Vietnam. So she's telling me that you can usually have a limit of 10-20 millions daily VND withdrawal on any ATM in the country from a local bank account. Many times in Vietnam when I was using my Canadian ATM Card (Cirrus Network) I'd be limited to maximum 8M a day and that would only be at Citigroup bank. She's telling me that this limitation was only because my bank card was foreign.

Anyway, I just wanted to confirm with the people here who have access to a local bank account, is it true that the amount you can withdraw daily from an ATM, if it's at your bank's ATM, can be above 15M?

Oh and the plan is to use a local Vietnamese money transfer service in Montreal, you can transfer big amounts of money for only $5 + 1.5% and it's delivered in Vietnam in your hands, cash, in a day or two. We've used the service before and it's very efficient and much cheaper than Western Union... so I'd have the money delivered to my former sister-in-law who'd deposit the cash in a local bank account.

Hey my friend, looking forward to meeting you after you arrive.

Three things:

1. Perhaps be cautious about sharing your plan in public.

It's definitely used by a lot of people with good results for them, but it's also illegal.

2. If you don't need to redeposit in a VN bank, consider keeping the money locked up as cash.

I'm guessing the VN bank account won't be in your name (otherwise how could she deposit that much cash for you under current banking laws) and I can envision a number of scenarios where you might find it difficult to get at your money, especially if you have to go to one of your former relatives to ask for your money when you need it.

You might want to test the idea by suggesting that your relative hold onto the cash for you and give it to you directly.

If they hesitate, maybe you hesitate too?

Most people here who are concerned about the subject of getting money from outside the country into the country, use a bank because that's the easiest way to transfer money in.

But as some old timers on here have said in the past, if you don't need to have your money in a bank, keep it in cash.

Should you suddenly need your money in an emergency, you might find it difficult or impossible to get your money out of the country.

3. Have you considered this Canadian prepaid Mastercard solution?

https://www.getstack.ca/

I'm thinking it would be much easier and safer to have your money transferred into this type of account, especially since it reportedly has no ATM fees worldwide.

Good luck!

WillyBaldy wrote:

Anyway, I just wanted to confirm with the people here who have access to a local bank account, is it true that the amount you can withdraw daily from an ATM, if it's at your bank's ATM, can be above 15M?

I don't have a local bank account. I prefer to use HSBC ATMs in Saigon to withdraw from my Schwab checking. I have made back-to-back withdrawals a couple times, no problem.

WillyBaldy wrote:

Oh and the plan is to use a local Vietnamese money transfer service in Montreal, you can transfer big amounts of money for only $5 + 1.5% and it's delivered in Vietnam in your hands, cash, in a day or two. We've used the service before and it's very efficient and much cheaper than Western Union... so I'd have the money delivered to my former sister-in-law who'd deposit the cash in a local bank account.

Yeah those work because it must be family members (or gangsters) who trust each other (will kill each other) in each country. But it is sketchy and illegal because all countries like to control international financial transactions. Depends on your level of risk, right? What if Ngo in Quebec has a gambling debt and and you walked in with cash at just the right time?

An alternative is wire transfer. I have wired $8000 from my online Schwab to my wife's ACB dollar account. I just put in her account name and numbers, and in minutes she get's an email that the money is there. Schwab has a flat $25 fee, and ACB charges about $4. Dollar to dollar, no currency conversion.
Doing the math for the fee $25/8025, that is much cheaper, $4 plus 0.31% .

For fun, what is the break even? Using my fees, solving for money:
$5 + money(0.015) = $25 + $4 + money(0.0031)
Over $2000, bank transfer is cheaper than the gangsters, in minutes not days, arriving in the bank, not by motorbike.

WillyBaldy wrote:

Okay thanks, but I find it a bit silly that the maximum per transaction is not the same as the daily limit. If you need to withdraw 12M, then you need to go through the process of withdrawing three times... but I think there are no fees if you use the ATM from your bank, right?

Maximum per transaction and daily limit are not the same, even in the US.  My daily limit is $1000, but that's not what I could withdraw in one transaction anywhere in 49 states and DC (haven't been to Alaska yet so I don't know how ATM works there).  I needed to withdraw at least twice, usually 3 times when we're in the States, and more in other countries.  Thankfully it's always no fee no matter whose ATM, where on the planet, and how I do it.

I imagine you have a few American friends whose residence you can use for billing address if you go over the border and open a Schwab account before leaving for Vietnam.  I don't remember if the absence of an American ID would be an issue.  If you can have a Schwab debit card, I wholeheartedly recommend that over multiple money transfers for your 7-month stay.  No transfer fee, no ATM fee, and in spite of what "they" said, we Schwab ATM users can always withdraw up to 23M/day.

Then, for large transfer, as Gobot said above, $25 flat rate is hard to beat.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

Almost a year ago, I was able to get 7 million per transaction from one of the two ATMs at this HSBC Hanoi branch:

Thanks, but about the suggestions of using an HSBC ATM, I'm pretty sure there's no HSBC in Rach Gia, where I'm going to spend 7 months, so that's why I was asking about a local Vietnamese bank. It would be my  former sister-in-law's bank account (I can trust 100%, I'm not being naive).

Ciambella wrote:

I imagine you have a few American friends whose residence you can use for billing address if you go over the border and open a Schwab account before leaving for Vietnam.

I don't think it would be that easy, as a Canadian. But I'd also have to deal with foreign exchange conversion from CAD to USD which is 2.5%, I don't think that option is realistic for a non-American.

gobot wrote:

Yeah those work because it must be family members (or gangsters) who trust each other (will kill each other) in each country. But it is sketchy and illegal because all countries like to control international financial transactions. Depends on your level of risk, right? What if Ngo in Quebec has a gambling debt and and you walked in with cash at just the right time?

You all seem to say this transfer service is illegal. Maybe, but it's been used by thousands of oversea Vietnamese all over Noth America. My ex-wife used it 100 times+ to send money to her family in Vietnam. The shop is on a very safe, busy corner, and they have a buzzer and security. It really doesn't look like a dark mafia thing to me.

WillyBaldy wrote:

gobot wrote:

Yeah those work because it must be family members (or gangsters) who trust each other (will kill each other) in each country. But it is sketchy and illegal because all countries like to control international financial transactions. Depends on your level of risk, right? What if Ngo in Quebec has a gambling debt and and you walked in with cash at just the right time?

You all seem to say this transfer service is illegal. Maybe, but it's been used by thousands of oversea Vietnamese all over Noth America. My ex-wife used it 100 times+ to send money to her family in Vietnam. The shop is on a very safe, busy corner, and they have a buzzer and security. It really doesn't look like a dark mafia thing to me.

We aren't saying it can't work.

We are simply saying it is illegal.

It's technically money laundering under Vietnamese law.

One reason it has probably worked for so long for so many Vietnamese people is that they likely don't talk about it freely on public internet forums.

Hey, we all want things to go well for you.

But as a foreigner you are probably a bigger target for the authorities.

Also, if you use that system, you have to trust every single person along the line in that system.

People you've never met.

There is NO banking insurance in that system.

Let one operation get busted (maybe by Canadian authorities) and there goes your money.

No recourse.

Also, as much as you trust your ex Sister-in-law, she's not a confidential banker.

Everyone in her network of associates may very well end up knowing your business.

Of course, you can do whatever suits you.

But there are a lot of stories on here written by people who tried to cut corners with the banks or visas or driver's licenses: you name it.

When they crash and burn it's a sad story indeed.

I think we all hope you are fully informed about the law before you follow the advice of one Vietnamese individual, no matter how trustworthy they are.

Good luck, buddy!

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

I think we all hope you are fully informed about the law before you follow the advice of one Vietnamese individual, no matter how trustworthy they are.

Thank for your insight, I never contemplated the "dark" side of that system. Anyway even if I used it, it be through Vietnamese people (sender and receiver) so I would not even be directly involved... but thanks all for your suggestions, I bridged together a few comments and realised my bank, Royal Bank of Canada, has an international transfer service that's *much* cheaper than Western Union. I always wondered how it could be used, but now I think I see how: direct transfer to a Vietnamese bank account. I will investigate this.

Thanks guys and girl!

PS: Can any of you confirm the Vietnamese banking system uses the (SWIFT BIC/ABA) system for bank accounts? Thanks! That's what I'm investigating: http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/internation … -transfer/

PS: Can any of you confirm the Vietnamese banking system uses the (SWIFT BIC/ABA) system for bank accounts? Thanks! That's what I'm investigating: [link under review]

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Yes.

ACB Bank gives me their Swift code to use for transfers in from Charles Schwab bank.

It works.

However, keep in mind, whatever you transfer directly in CAD will be subject to your Canadian bank fee, possibly your Vietnam bank fee for accepting the deposit, and conversion fee to VND.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

However, keep in mind, whatever you transfer directly in CAD will be subject to your Canadian bank fee, possibly your Vietnam bank fee for accepting the deposit, and conversion fee to VND.

And the conversion fee at the bank will be not a a very competitive rate.  That's why even though I pay 1% to TransferWise the conversion to VND happens en route and I'm deposited in VND at the mid-day rate which is the most favorable.

Thanks @OceanBeach, yeah so on my side it's CAD$13 fixed, + 2.5% conversion (can't avoid it if using any legit international transfer). Now I just need to find info on what fee the Vietnamese bank will charge.

Goes to say, cash is still king. The person brave enough to carry $10,000 on them in the plane will save a lot on fees, but maybe not on sleepless nights 

SteinNebraska wrote:

150M for a new moto

By the way, that must be a heck of a moto! 

WillyBaldy wrote:

Goes to say, cash is still king. The person brave enough to carry $10,000 on them in the plane will save a lot on fees, but maybe not on sleepless nights 

Been there, done that with ScotteVest.  The vest was on husband's body at all time except the 2 second when it went through security screening, but I followed behind him with my eyes on it for those 2 seconds. 

He slept fine (and toasty warm) on the plane.

Ciambella wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

Goes to say, cash is still king. The person brave enough to carry $10,000 on them in the plane will save a lot on fees, but maybe not on sleepless nights 

Been there, done that with ScotteVest.  The vest was on husband's body at all time except the 2 second when it went through security screening, but my eyes were on it the whole 2 seconds. 

He slept fine on the plane.

Well, my sleepless nights comment was more related to having lots of cash in your apartment in Vietnam. Some people people are more at ease with this than others.

WillyBaldy wrote:

SteinNebraska wrote:

150M for a new moto

By the way, that must be a heck of a moto! 

New KTM Duke 390.  Pretty happy with it.  It's half the size of the adventure bike I have at home (Triumph Tiger 800XC ABS) but it gets the job done for Saigon.  I really wouldn't want my 800 in this traffic.  Seat height is over 1 meter so I'm tippy-toe on it.

WillyBaldy wrote:

[
Well, my sleepless nights comment was more related to having lots of cash in your apartment in Vietnam. Some people people are more at ease with this than others.

Try not to sweat that.  There's always a couple hundred million literally in a plastic bag somewhere in in our place and I don't give it a thought.  Think outside the random thoughts where you are sticking it and you will be fine.

SteinNebraska wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

[
Well, my sleepless nights comment was more related to having lots of cash in your apartment in Vietnam. Some people people are more at ease with this than others.

Try not to sweat that.  There's always a couple hundred million literally in a plastic bag somewhere in in our place and I don't give it a thought.  Think outside the random thoughts where you are sticking it and you will be fine.

Do you know or can you confirm that when you go at a gold shop with foreign money in your hand, they usually don't charge you FX fees so you're usually getting the best possible exchange rate without much fees on top? I'm assuming a gold shop will give you a better deal than exchanging foreign money directly at a bank? Also, I noticed in my last trip that some banks won't exchange CAD, that was the case in Phan Thiet, maybe it would be different in Saigon. I could not find a gold shop in Phan Thiet so at the end had to exchange at the hotel in Mui Ne which was probably not optimal.

Most of the gold shops are actually pretty fair because everyone can check the current tranaction rate and they post the transfer rates right on the digital board so you know right off if it is decent or not.  Download the xe.com app on your phone and you can get real world exchange rates that you can review prior to going in there.  If you are bringing in cash and exchanging you will likely be OK because the one to two percent you will lose at the gold shop you would have paid anyway.  For example, right now it's 23,208.7402 VND per USD.

Ciambella wrote:

The vest was on husband's body at all time except the 2 second when it went through security screening,

So, how does that work?  It goes through the X-ray and there's several of these money-shaped bricks inside of a sweater vest and it doesn't get pulled off the belt for additional hand screening?

SteinNebraska wrote:

Most of the gold shops are actually pretty fair because everyone can check the current tranaction rate and they post the transfer rates right on the digital board so you know right off if it is decent or not.  Download the xe.com app on your phone and you can get real world exchange rates that you can review prior to going in there.  If you are bringing in cash and exchanging you will likely be OK because the one to two percent you will lose at the gold shop you would have paid anyway.  For example, right now it's 23,208.7402 VND per USD.

So a gold shop would give you a better deal than a local Vietnamese bank, in your opinion?

WillyBaldy wrote:

So a gold shop would give you a better deal than a local Vietnamese bank, in your opinion?

In my experience, yes.  And if you know the shop (or know someone who knows the shop), they'll even deliver the money so you don't have to walk around with a bundle of 500K.

WillyBaldy wrote:

So a gold shop would give you a better deal than a local Vietnamese bank, in your opinion?

Yes

Ciambella wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

So a gold shop would give you a better deal than a local Vietnamese bank, in your opinion?

In my experience, yes.  And if you know the shop (or know someone who knows the shop), they'll even deliver the money so you don't have to walk around with a bundle of 500K.

I'm debating simply bringing a pile of CAD cash, and at the beginning of my trip I'd exchange in VND and go with my sister-in-law at her bank and deposit in the bank account she will have opened under her name, then she'll give me a bank card.

On a side note, yes, it sounds crazy, but the story is, I've been taking good care of my step family's daughter (and sister for my sister-in-law) and still doing so even if I don't have legal obligations. She just got her Canadian passport and still at university. So basically I know her family very well (small family of four members, one of them being in Canada) and *even* if they were untrustworthy it would not be in their best interest to try to trick me. I'm their daughter's "protector' in Canada in case something happens, and they are very grateful for this. Especially after a divorce, because for Vietnamese culture (and any culture I guess) divorce rarely ends well!

SteinNebraska wrote:

So, how does that work?  It goes through the X-ray and there's several of these money-shaped bricks inside of a sweater vest and it doesn't get pulled off the belt for additional hand screening?

Nothing happened.  On international flight to VN, the allowance is $5000 pp, and it's two of us.  Husband didn't trust me with that kind of money (for at least one good reason: I lost a good amount before when travelled alone) so he carried the whole thing on him.  We did that twice, didn't get pull over, weren't asked. 

The money was in 2 pockets, all $100 brand new bills, they're actually lighter than and not as thick as the leather wallet that contained 2 passports and several credit cards which was in another pocket.  (There are 18 pockets altogether, IIRC).

It wouldn't matter if we were asked anyway as it's legal.  If I'm not mistaken, it's $10K allowance in and out of the States pp, double the allowance in VN.

Ciambella wrote:

It wouldn't matter if we were asked anyway as it's legal.  If I'm not mistaken, it's $10K allowance in and out of the States pp, double the allowance in VN.

Canada allows CAD$10,000 in and out I think. At least they ask to disclose it if it's more than 10K, maybe they'd allow it if it's for a good reason.

On my last trip to Vietnam I withdrew CAD$2000 in cash at the bank, and they asked me what is was for. It seems the authorities implemented more money laundering rules lately.

WillyBaldy wrote:

I'm debating simply bringing a pile of CAD cash, and at the beginning of my trip I'd exchange in VND and go with my sister-in-law at her bank and deposit in the bank account she will have opened under her name, then she'll give me a bank card.

You're a wonderful person who are fortunate to have several wonderful relationships.  All's well that ends well in your case.

I wouldn't have any problem bringing the legal amount of cash to VN (not if I travel alone, but only because I'm not very observant about my surrounding).  If you're doing it, I highly recommend ScotteVest.  It's a wearable safety deposit box if you need one.  It's light.  It doesn't look ridiculous wearing it while walking under the sun in the heat in VN (I don't wear it walking around, but husband does when needed).  It keeps you warm on the plane. 

I also like it because everything I need on the plane is with me at all time: iPhone, Kindle, bluetooth earphone/noise cancelling, hand sanitizer, wet wipes, face lotion, chapstick, essential oil for travel, and handkerchief -- that's almost the content of another small cabin bag that I'm not allowed to take onboard.

WillyBaldy wrote:

On my last trip to Vietnam I withdrew CAD$2000 in cash at the bank, and they asked me what is was for. It seems the authorities implemented more money laundering rules lately.

They did ask husband too in the States so maybe it's just formality.  He didn't have any problem telling them he's leaving California for good and he's taking his money with him, but please give him only brand new bills from the bank's vault because they didn't like imperfect bills where he's heading.

Anytime he acted up like that, I simply pretended I didn't know him.   

Ciambella wrote:

You're a wonderful person who are fortunate to have several wonderful relationships.  All's well that ends well in your case.

Thanks, but I can often be a real pain 

Ciambella wrote:

If you're doing it, I highly recommend ScotteVest.

Thank you, I'll definitely look into this if I go the cash route. It's either RBC transfer or cash. Need to check if there's reception fees on the other side.

WillyBaldy wrote:

[On my last trip to Vietnam I withdrew CAD$2000 in cash at the bank, and they asked me what is was for. It seems the authorities implemented more money laundering rules lately.

Unbelievable.   
$2000 is like rent, or a trip, or a nice TV.
That would get a 'None Of Your Business' from me.
And maybe a followup, 'I'm closing my account for asking such a rude personal question.'
Whose money is it anyway?!

Ciambella wrote:

[On international flight to VN, the allowance is $5000 pp, and it's two of us.

My brain didn't compute two people traveling thus doubling the limit.  I always travel oveseas alone so $5,000 stuck in my head.

Local bank...ex-inlaw...cash transaction...I've had an HSBC account since 2009.  I had a USD account but closed due to the banking rules placed several years back.  HSBC is country wide in most places here in Vietnam and SE Asia for your travel needs.  You can have a USD account (or Canada dollar)  and a Vietnam Dong account.  I have only retained my HSBC account from the US and closed the account here in Vietnam.  I had no problems transferring large amounts from the US to here over a decade ago into the USD account.   Not sure about today.   
If you open a HSBC dollar account and a Vietnam account and retain your account from Canada, you would be able to transfer from to the other very easy.  I moved everything over here 13 to 15 years back.  Moving money and keeping it in Vietnamese bank...generally in my opinion would not be a safe place to keep it. 
I put my dollars into gold back in 2004 when I arrived until August of 2007...when it really went crazy.  Not in a bank...Good luck

Thanks. The only thing with these bank transfers, it's typically 2.5% FX conversion fee. Also, I won't be keeping much in that account, just enough for 1-2 months at a time, so no danger of disaster.