Moving to Budapest from Stockholm to run a restaurant/bar business

If you're planning to start a business in a country where you don't speak the official language, you either have infinite amount of time, money and nerves of steel, or you're just #$@CENSORED%^%&. 

hahahhaha. Maybe, I am...
We were there last year couple of weeks, as tourists ofcourse. We didn't experience language problems. I have been talking to a friend who lived there for a few years and yes he tells me that Hungarian is a must but then I am talking to someone I know from Budapest and he tells me I can manage the business but I will need help when dealing with authorities.
Although I speak German, Swedish; I am confident that I will not be able to learn Hungarian as it is a notoriously difficult language to learn.
So, should I discard this idea?

eswarchuk wrote:

I have been talking to a friend who lived there for a few years and yes he tells me that Hungarian is a must but then I am talking to someone I know from Budapest and he tells me I can manage the business but I will need help when dealing with authorities.

Do you know about OKJ requirements to run a business in Hungary?

If not, then you need to look into it as most businesses like the one you want to open usually require the on site manager to have taken and passed an OKJ course (and the last time I checked, they are only in Hungarian).

So you can of course "own" any business, but legally, if your business type requires an OKJ certificate, you can not be the on site manager without that OKJ certificate. You can of course hire someone with the correct OKJ course certificate to be the manager, but they have to be on site when you are open -- if they get sick, or go on vacation, you have to replace them with someone else with the correct certificate.

More info at this thread:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=134786

and at the OKJ web site (only in Hungarian -- use Google translate to convert):

http://www.szakkepesites.hu/

Hey there Eswar

Welcome to Expat.com

Can I ask you why you have chosen Hungary?

Some do speak German, but that tends to be closer to the borders.

There are some agents that communicate in English as well as Hungarian.

Regards

SimCityAT

Why Hungary?
So far I have considered, Sofia, Mauritius and Budapest. I have crossed out Mauritius after being there recently and going into details of taking over a business. Sofia and Budapest, I am still considering...
Budapest attracted me as I found them to be very Germanic (I lived in Germany for 7 yrs). With Germanic I mean, punctuality, work ethic etc and at the same time being a low cost country. Weather conditions are also much more favourable than Sweden

Thank you very much for the info. I will check it out...
It seems the language and bureaucracy seem to be the deal breakers for Budapest...

eswarchuk wrote:

With Germanic I mean, punctuality, work ethic etc and at the same time being a low cost country.

I first arrived in Hungary in the last century, and have lived here full time for 10 years now. And I can say you may be overestimating that, especially if you have limited experiences from only short visits; that is, the tourist experience is simply different.

My experience is to rather say those factors can vary widely here when you actually employ people or interact with other businesses.

You also need to know about how business is done here. It is a "know a guy" business/bureaucratic climate. To get a lot of things done, you often have to "know a guy" who "knows a guy" who can push it through, especially in a timely manner, and knowing when and when not to apply some "grease money".

And you will especially need to "know a guy" to overcome language barriers for you as well, especially in a business where a Hungarian only speaking client may want to "speak to the owner". Not to mention you want to start a business that is probably the most regulated, dealing with all sorts of issues including public health and safety. Are you sure you will know all the rules and regulations? In a foreign language? Especially since those change all the time.

So maybe reconsider a business that is less "public facing" (at least to Hungarians), so fewer daily language barriers, and needing to rely less on "knowing a guy" every day. Such as buy some properties and rent them out on Airbnb to tourists who speak languages you know. A business model which does not (yet) require OKJ certificates.

eswarchuk wrote:

being a low cost country

Only for people who make above average Hungarian salaries.

eswarchuk wrote:

Weather conditions are also much more favourable than Sweden

Well, the weather in Greece is even better. But maybe not the best place to start a business at this time.

In other words, are you more moving to get better weather, and just want to start a business where you move, or are you looking for real business opportunities? If the latter, then weather is really only relevant to the type of business, i.e. tourist company has more opportunities year round in a warm, dry climate, versus chance for great profit despite the weather: i.e. diamond mining in Siberia. 

Thank you very much for a detailed response.
Yes, my experience is very limitedand I can imagine the problems I will have with language and "know a guy" culture.
The underlying reason for thiking about the move is more the weather than about making money. That was the reason for considering Mauritius but the work force and bureaucracy killed that idea.
Do you have any suggestions for other destinations?

eswarchuk wrote:

The underlying reason for thiking about the move is more the weather than about making money. That was the reason for considering Mauritius but the work force and bureaucracy killed that idea.
Do you have any suggestions for other destinations?

Weather only: Corfu.

Weather, language and cost of living: Croatia (English is widely spoken)

Can one live and run a business in Croatia with EU passport?

eswarchuk wrote:

Can one live and run a business in Croatia with EU passport?

Croatia is a member of the EU, so as you being an EU citizen, you would not require any special work visa.

As for other locations.

You say you speak German, have you thought of Austria?

Austria is not exactly a low cost country...
I am considering Bulgaria, English is widely spoken there too...

These countries go hand in hand, they may be low cost, but so are wages and way of life.

If I am going to run a business, low wages is fine with me
I was in Sofia this year (Jan, I think). I can see that winters can be really tough there (most people rely on electric heaters insted of gas central heating as the Russian gas is super expensive even for Swedish standards) and the spirits of the people seemed very low. Planning to check it out again soon if things are different (as I was told) when the weather gets better.
I have been reading the Croatia forum. The bureaucracy seems like a mess too

eswarchuk wrote:

I have been reading the Croatia forum. The bureaucracy seems like a mess too

I think you will find that true in all low cost countries. The bureaucratic positions are not so well paying as to always attract the best talent. 

In other words, you may find you can only pick any two:

- low cost
- nice weather
- no problem with the bureaucracy.

Hi,

I checked some prices for BfS but the prices are not relevant. At this point there are plenty of cafe' and restaurants in this city.

You need a proper business plan I suppose. (you have to come here and check districts and seasonal effects in this city- in winter time its close to dead and response of people are so low but spring time is deceptive)

Other important thing is employee'. As far as I see you can not speak Hungarian and you might hire someone. They are extremely slow and unfortunately they dont care about customer satisfaction. So if you want to open an touristic place it will be a problem. You have push and manage them all the time. (unfortunately they behave rude sometimes)

For the legal and     bureaucracy point you have to consider that this country is the slowest country in the world. You may get sick off.

Lots of people -citizens- might approach you kind but reality is different. So as a summary  you shouldnt trust anyone and you have to follow up everything carefully -I dont know why you choose here -

cuídate

I'm local, speak hungarian. :-))) Better if you are not in the ineternational hub. If you don't speak hungarian it will be difficult for you. Does not matter if you are hungarian or foreigner, employe can be uneffective.

Hungarians are not extremly slow. We can talk about staff in paris, Rome, London and in USA too. I have experience

eswarchuk wrote:

Thank you very much for a detailed response.
..... The underlying reason for thinking about the move is more the weather than about making money. That was the reason for considering Mauritius but the work force and bureaucracy killed that idea.
Do you have any suggestions for other destinations?

--------------------
If I may chime-in...  For the weather, I would recommend Australia. 
I visited over 30 countries and have lived in five, but never have I ever experience what I would call as close to perfect weather as possible as in the Sydney area of New South Wales, AU.  I understand that Brisbane, Queensland is even better (hard to believe)...  That goes for vegetation, wild life, and nature in general as well.  All  in all, I think it is a great place to live. 

Getting a resident permit, might be a whole other thing.  If I remember correctly, you either will need a work visa, that could in five years or so be converted to residency, and even to citizenship eventually, or need to invest in an existing AU business to achieve the same.  If you start-up a new business, it cannot "sponsor" you, as the business needs to be established with at least one tax return having been filed. 

If the weather and quality of life is so important to you, it wold at least be worth a visit to look into...

Best of luck,
Livia
Hungarian born American citizen planning to move back to Budapest in six months to semi-retire, possibly helping a small business get started or an existing one do better.  I have a job posting on this site if you are interested in reviewing it...

Tamás wrote:

Hungarians are not extremly slow. We can talk about staff in paris, Rome, London and in USA too. I have experience

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I am an American citizen and have been in 30 countries and lived in five.  I have not lived in Hungary for 40 plus years, since I left at age 17, but I can tell you that if you are too slow and provide inadequate service in the U.S., it is bye bye time in most places.  There is too much competition; there are plenty of workers to take a job of someone who does not appreciate it, and the expectations regarding service are very high.  I lived in New York, Texas, Florida, California; did business in Missouri, Connecticut; did business in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Washington State, and had relatives in Oklahoma, and Arkansas, plus I traveled around a bit, but the service even in the slowest states could not be called "slow" compared to many, many, many other parts of the world.  In my experience, the same goes for Paris and Rome, although I only visited there a dozen or so times as a tourist, spending plenty of money in nice places, but never lived in either city.  I too have heard from many sources that Hungarians are slow to get things done.  It is hard for someone who lives there and is used to it to compare the conditions to other standards.  It will be a challenge for me when I move back next year, since I am used to what we call "chap-chap" speed and have little to no patience for anything less...

Panni36 wrote:

I too have heard from many sources that Hungarians are slow to get things done.

Not just slow. At times it can be glacial. Especially many issues dealing with the bureaucracy.

But there are exceptions. Private Density, for example, can be pretty peepy and timely. Internet shopping is "okay". Don't expect next day service if you are outside Budapest, but it is still faster than the once a week deliveries most local brick and mortar stores will tell you if what you want is out of stock this week.

It all drove me nuts at first. Coming from a 24/7 always on and available lifestyle in the USA. But I have adapted. Ten short years later.....

Did you find something,I was also planning the same ,may be we can be partners i know a good business there.