The unofficial web page of the greater Cuenca expat community

mugtech wrote:

Wonder if he will ever take on the internet, a seeming small source of info for most the locals.

From what I read, there are provisions in the new media law related to internet. So those living in Ecuador need to watch what they write on their Facebook page, blogs, or expat-blog web pages.  Probably a good rule to follow is never criticize anyone in government.

Nards Barley wrote:

Another copy and paste by Cuenca Highlife today in violation of CBS NewŽs terms of use and the fair use doctrine. Yes, I did contact CBS News.

P.S.
Did you see I am now a "EB member +".  Unfortunately, there are no additional administrative powers conveyed to me.

Just saw a guy on here,Yud, whose status is ViP, has 3 gold stars, 7 gold suitcases, and from 11/18/10 to 02/26/12 made 7025 posts, an average of about 14 posts every day for 475 days.  At your current average of 1.3 posts per day it will take you almost 5000 days to catch him, about 13.5 years.  It's good to have long range goals.

Nards Barley wrote:

mugtech wrote:

Wonder if he will ever take on the internet, a seeming small source of info for most the locals.

From what I read, there are provisions in the new media law related to internet. So those living in Ecuador need to watch what they write on their Facebook page, blogs, or expat-blog web pages.  Probably a good rule to follow is never criticize anyone in government.

Saw a picture in the newspaper of a supporter outside the Ecuadorean Embassy in London holding a sign which said "Thank you President Correa  Ecuador Respects Freedom of Expression"  In a Special to the Tribune Newspapers written by Chris Kraul and Pablo Jaramillo Viteri, they quote ex-opposition congressman Cesar Montufar as saying:

"It's a total doublespeak and a double standard.  Under Correa's proposed criminal code (that would enforce the new law), if Snowden did in Ecuador what he did to the CIA, he would be subject to a seven- to nine-year jail term"

Wonder how long Cesar will continue to walk the streets.  It is a joke that the new law sets up a five-person "regulation council" appointed by Correa that is the final arbiter of what constitutes media law violations.

So what does Ecuador have to lose?  Evidently if the special trade preferences are allowed to expire on Sunday, then about $400 million in Ecuadorian flowers, tuna, lumber and fruit will no longer enter the US duty free.  In the meantime foreign minister Ricardo Patino said the decision on Snowden's asylum request could take two days or two months.  Pure Ecuador

A little gamesmanship by Ecuador.

Ecuador's communications minister says the country is renouncing trade preferences that are up for U.S. congressional renewal.

Even though there has been a lot of chatter about Ecuador losing its trade preferences since the Snowden story broke, President Correa had been addressing that possibility before the story broke.

mugtech wrote:

"It's a total doublespeak and a double standard.  Under Correa's proposed criminal code (that would enforce the new law), if Snowden did in Ecuador what he did to the CIA, he would be subject to a seven- to nine-year jail term"

Ecuador recently sent a 6th grade teacher to jail for 8 years of prison for sabotage and terrorism.

Her crimes?

She was a political opposition leader (left of Correa), and was a union leader etc.

She supposedly exhorted the students at her school to go protest on the day their was a police uprising back in 2008. The evidence is some sketchy cell phone video.

mugtech wrote:

Just saw a guy on here,Yud, whose status is ViP, has 3 gold stars, 7 gold suitcases, and from 11/18/10 to 02/26/12 made 7025 posts, an average of about 14 posts every day for 475 days.  At your current average of 1.3 posts per day it will take you almost 5000 days to catch him, about 13.5 years.  It's good to have long range goals.

Yeah, Yud is probably out of reach for me. I consider myself productive if I can leave one comment each day.

Nonetheless, I think I can claim the title for the thread with the most comments on the Ecuador forum.

However, I still have a ways to go to catch "The Best places to live in Ecuador" thread for most views.

It appears to me Ecuador may have found an out to the Snowden mess: publicly state that that they wonŽt consider his asylum request unless he makes it on to Ecuadorian territory. And if the Russians wonŽt help him, then his only option will be to return to the U.S., or live his life at the airport.

This of course after a  Ecuador's consul general in London, Fidel Narváez, issued a special travel document that would have permitted Snowden to fly to Ecuador.

Nards Barley wrote:

It appears to me Ecuador may have found an out to the Snowden mess: publicly state that that they wonŽt consider his asylum request unless he makes it on to Ecuadorian territory. And if the Russians wonŽt help him, then his only option will be to return to the U.S., or live his life at the airport.

This of course after a  Ecuador's consul general in London, Fidel Narváez, issued a special travel document that would have permitted Snowden to fly to Ecuador.

Except the wikileaker received asylum at the Ecuador Embassy in London.  What if Snowjob mysteriously shows up at the Ecuador Embassy in Russia or elsewhere?  This could take awhile.

mugtech wrote:

Nards Barley wrote:

And if the Russians wonŽt help him, then his only option will be to return to the U.S., or live his life at the airport.

Except the wikileaker received asylum at the Ecuador Embassy in London.  What if Snowjob mysteriously shows up at the Ecuador Embassy in Russia or elsewhere?  This could take awhile.

If he shows up at the Ecuadorian embassy it is because the Russians have decided to lend him a hand.

And if the Russians are willing to lend him a hand, they might as well send him on to Cuba.

I was reading the recent post by The Fab Five (formerly referred to as The Frugals) and they were sharing some of their experiences with rental prices via their business 300 dollars rentals   .

Based on my general observations as well, apartments rentals have gone up quite a bit in the past year.

Take a look at this apartment from Craigslist which is listed at $700 a month. While it is a well-known real estate broker listing it, I doubt they were asking more than $500 a year ago. Plus there is a monthly building fee of $200, which is steep. This building is located next to the autopista, so it is not even in convenient walking distance to downtown.

In an article from El Universo today the head of the Chamber of Commerce qualifies the actions of President Correa as irresponsible with respect to his decision to rescind the law they gave Ecuador trade benefits with the U.S.

That is not surprising nor especially interesting, but I did find the end of the article to be quite provocative and accurate:

La Cámara de Comercio de Quito una vez que fue expedida la ley de Medios ha decidido no tener relación con las autoridades, dijo Peñaherrera porque considera que Ecuador vive bajo un "gobierno no democrático"

Translation: The Chamber of Commerce decided once the new media law passed that it would have no further relations with the authorities because it considers Ecuador is living under a "government non-democratic".

According to Univision, Correa has been caught in a lie. Ecuador issued and then revoked safe passes for Edwin Snowden. Correa said they  were unauthorized, but Univision says they have proof that they were issued on Correa's orders. Which raises two questions:

1. Since someone in the government (probably at the embassy) must have leaked these documents, how does Correa feel about leaks now?
2. Will Ecuadorian papers be allowed to print this news?

I blogged about this here.

BobH wrote:

According to Univision, Correa has been caught in a lie. Ecuador issued and then revoked safe passes for Edwin Snowden. Correa said they  were unauthorized, but Univision says they have proof that they were issued on Correa's orders. Which raises two questions:

1. Since someone in the government (probably at the embassy) must have leaked these documents, how does Correa feel about leaks now?
2. Will Ecuadorian papers be allowed to print this news?

I blogged about this here.

1.  Doublespeak is based on contradictions, nothing will change.
2.  They will print at their own peril. Why bother?  Does the man on the street in Ecuador care about any of this except perhaps the results from declining most favored nation status?

BobH wrote:

According to Univision, Correa has been caught in a lie. Ecuador issued and then revoked safe passes for Edwin Snowden. Correa said they  were unauthorized, but Univision says they have proof that they were issued on Correa's orders. Which raises two questions:

1. Since someone in the government (probably at the embassy) must have leaked these documents, how does Correa feel about leaks now?
2. Will Ecuadorian papers be allowed to print this news?

I blogged about this here.

I havenŽt seen one article in the Ecaudorian newspapers that makes reference to the story about the leaked document that Univsion broke.  They wonŽt touch that story beyond printing a denial from a government official named Galo Galarza who says a travel document was never issued.

A good article explaining the duplicitous nature of Correa below.

Unfortunately we have many expats in Ecuador that come here with their anti-American utterances and biases, while giving a pass to the demagoguery and draconian non-democratic measures taken by the Ecuadorian government.

But at home, his record is more complicated. As he's fought for WikiLeaks' right to publish secret and confidential information, he's imposed some of the hemisphere's most draconian regulations on his own press. This week, a new media watchdog with sweeping powers began operating. It's headed by a Correa appointee. The president has also passed decrees hobbling civil-society groups and, as Castro discovered, dusted-off dictatorship-era laws from the 1960s that give authorities a wide dragnet to sweep up “terrorists.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/06/29/3 … rylink=cpy

In the Spanish version of that article from the Miami Herald, there is a quote that is missing from the English Version.  It is from the student who was part of the Luluncoto 10.

“¿Qué trataban de decir con ese juicio?” preguntó Castro, un activista estudiantil de 25 años. “Que cualquiera que se oponga al gobierno es un terrorista”

What were they trying to saying with this court case, asked Castro? That anyone that opposes the government is a terrorist.

Me: As Mery Zamora found out, that is exactly what they are saying.

Nards Barley wrote:

unfortunately we have many expats in Ecuador that come here with their anti-American utterances and biases, while giving a pass to the demagoguery and draconian non-democratic measures taken by the Ecuadorian government.

Many expats complain about the USA because there are no repercussions, while keeping their mouths shut about Ecuador's government because they know there could be consequences.  Then they say they came to Ecuador for the freedom?

How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see?

Bob Dylan

mugtech wrote:

Many expats complain about the USA because there are no repercussions, while keeping their mouths shut about Ecuador's government because they know there could be consequences.  Then they say they came to Ecuador for the freedom?

How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see?

Bob Dylan

True, and then they argue that we are all "guests" and that we have an obligation to bury are head in the sand, and ignore something that is contrary to our values.

Nards Barley wrote:

True, and then they argue that we are all "guests" and that we have an obligation to bury are head in the sand, and ignore something that is contrary to our values.

The "guest" idea is just more doublespeak, and the expats who think they are all guests, even perm res status expats, have no concept of the idea of a guest.  They be enjoying the freedom to not think.

More so for the rank hypocrisy on the part of Correa, rather than any personal feelings I have about Snowden, I would support this measure:

On Ecuador, Schumer told "Fox News Sunday" that the U.S. should cut off millions in foreign aid to the country and suspend favorable trade status, something Ecuador has suggested doing anyway. But he also said the U.S. could exert leverage by ending the 85,000 business visas between the two countries. "Cut them off," he said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06 … z2XigMNmFC

Nards, how much of what is said by politicians is red meat for the base and not a policy statement?

quito0819 wrote:

Nards, how much of what is said by politicians is red meat for the base and not a policy statement?

Quite often I am sure on the Sunday news programs, although I am  not sure Senator SchumerŽs base needs any red meat on this issue. I think the statement was mostly to serve warning to Correa.

Just finished this book.  Take a look at the underlined words in this excerpt. It was like that throughout the book

Puede que sea estúpido, Stark, pero aún estoy aquí, mientras que vuestro hermano lleva ya más de catorce años pudriéndose en su tumba de hielo. Si tantas ganas tenéis de pudriros a su lado, no seré yo quien os lo impida, pero prefiero que no me invitéis a esa fiesta, muchas gracias.
—Seríais la última persona a la que querría invitar a ninguna fiesta, Lord Baelish.
—Me partís el corazón. —Meñique se llevó una mano al pecho—. Siempre he pensado que los Stark sois un tanto cargantes, pero por lo visto Cat os ha cogido cierto afecto, aunque por motivos que se me escapan. Por ella, trataré de manteneros con vida. Soy un estúpido, lo sé, pero nunca he podido negarle nada a vuestra esposa.

When I first studied Spanish grammar, I intentionally igonored vosotros (informal plural), because they donŽt use it in central and South America.

It didnŽt dawn on me it would be so common in novels. In any case, if I were to do it over again, I would study that conjugation.

What is odd about its use in this novel, is they frequently use vosotros as a form of respect to the person being spoken to, even though they are addressing a single individual.

We have a gringo quote from El Commercio in an article titled "Socios con montos mayores a USD 10 000 deberán esperar" (Members with amounts greater than $10,000 are going to have to wait)

Apparently Chris W. was among a group of people standing in front of Coopera headquarters yesterday.

Chris W. intentaba entender lo que ocurría en los exteriores de la matriz de Coopera. Él es un jubilado estadounidense que habla poco español. Llegó hace un año a Cuenca, trajo sus ahorros, los depositó en Coopera y cada mes sacaba lo que necesitaba para sus gastos. "No sé qué vaya a pasar porque es lo único que tengo".

Chris W. was trying to understand what was happening outside the headquarters of Coopera.  He is a retired U.S. citizen who speaks little Spanish.  He arrived to Cuenca a year ago, brought his savings, deposited them at Coopera, and each month withdrew what he needed in order to pay his expenses.  "I donŽt know what is going to happen because it the only thing I have".

Are you reading Game of Trones in Spanish ?? Congratulations, that means your Spanish is really good.

Also, the use of "vosotros" is used many times in novels with the intention of create an ancient times atmosfera.

I feel for the guy in the quoted article, Nards. But ...

Isn't it a bit reckless to put all your savings into an unsecured 'bank' in a foreign country before you're fully familiar with the local laws and practices?

So while I am sympathetic to his plight, it seems that this is a result of his own decisions (though he probably relied on others for advice -- shame on them!)

vinny66 wrote:

Are you reading Game of Trones in Spanish ?? Congratulations, that means your Spanish is really good.

One would think. But if somebody has enough time, patience, decent grammar fundamentals, and multiple Spanish-English dictionaries, one can plod through just about any novel. And plod I did. I think I am better now than when I was in Guatemala,  where I plodded through The Da Vinci Code.

I started the second book, Choque de reyes, but got bored with the introduction of new characters and the endless description of castles and whatnot.

Now I am giving this one a try. It is a much easier read:

BobH wrote:

I feel for the guy in the quoted article, Nards. But ...

Isn't it a bit reckless to put all your savings into an unsecured 'bank' in a foreign country before you're fully familiar with the local laws and practices?

So while I am sympathetic to his plight, it seems that this is a result of his own decisions (though he probably relied on others for advice -- shame on them!)

CanŽt argue with you. I would think most of the investors in Coopera lived through the Savings and Loans crisis of the 1980s in the states.

Thanks, Vinny.  Never knew that.  I know in Nicaragua they will use vos sos...and Argentinians use vos. I just thought that vosotros was more from Spain.

Live and learn

Nards Barley wrote:

I think I am better now than when I was in Guatemala,  where I plodded through The Da Vinci Code.

Where did you live in Guatemala? It was roughly tied with Ecuador for second place in the "What country gets the honor of having Bob?" sweepstakes a year+ ago when I (foolishly) settled on Philippines.

It still is a possibility (and I'm giving a second look to Peru lately). I was interested in Quetzaltenango (Xela) because of the climate. The problem there seems to be violence.

Anyway, I'd be interested in your experience.

Bob

BobH wrote:

Nards Barley wrote:

I think I am better now than when I was in Guatemala,  where I plodded through The Da Vinci Code.

Where did you live in Guatemala? It was roughly tied with Ecuador for second place in the "What country gets the honor of having Bob?" sweepstakes a year+ ago when I (foolishly) settled on Philippines.

It still is a possibility (and I'm giving a second look to Peru lately). I was interested in Quetzaltenango (Xela) because of the climate. The problem there seems to be violence.

Anyway, I'd be interested in your experience.

Bob

I lived in Antigua, Guatemala. Never made it to Quetzaltenango although I thought about it, since it has a lot of Spanish schools as well.

Antigua is really nice colonial town. Warmer than here and has a rainy season.  There were around 50 language schools when I was there and lots of foreigners living there or passign through. Maybe it has changed since I was there last, but Cuenca seems to be much more modern in comparison. There were a lot of stories about gang bangers coming up from Guatemala to rob, rape and pillage.

The water sucked there, so I was always battling stomach sickness. And the bacteria gets in everything, even when you take precautions.

I might have considered living there but it was easier to qualify for a visa here.

Another cool place in Guatemala is Lake Atitlán where I spent a couple weeks visiting all the little villages. There is a lot of expats there.

I hate to link to an article by an ex-IL publisher, but here your go:

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/On- … ake-atitln

BobH wrote:

I feel for the guy in the quoted article, Nards. But ...

Isn't it a bit reckless to put all your savings into an unsecured 'bank' in a foreign country before you're fully familiar with the local laws and practices?

So while I am sympathetic to his plight, it seems that this is a result of his own decisions (though he probably relied on others for advice -- shame on them!)

While it was a bad decision, (thank you, Mike, for that marvelous insight) I wonder if some are here with such limited funds that they jumped at a chance to increase those funds?  At one time a fair number of people spoke in glowing terms of Coopera.  Desperate times/people are a gold mine for scam artists...

When I was a kid - and things could get dicey financially - there was a program called Dialing for Dollars and it involved using the phone book and following instructions to get to the correct phone number and waiting to see if they called your phone number and you could tell them the correct number...  Pretty demeaning looking back, but there were no phone calls in our neighborhood in case our ship came in.  Never did but there seemed to a lot of no answers and busy tones...

I wonder if our brother was not just Dialing for Dollars...

Mike

Nards: Thanks for the insight. Antigua is a possibility, but the fact that it is such an expat haven is a bit of a turn-off to me. It seems like it might be an American retirement community, and if I wanted that, I'd just buy a golf cart and move to Sun City. But maybe I'm wrong about it.

Lake Atitlan has great scuba diving, I understand. It's probably a bit smaller than I want, though -- I like the conveniences of a city.

Re the gangbangers -- I understand that one does not travel at night in Guatemala. The recommendation is that after arriving, you spend the night in Guate City and then take a bus to your destination the next morning -- otherwise there's a good chance of a hold-up.

The water is really bad here, too, but since I can get 5-gallon jugs delivered to my door for thirty pesos ($0.75), it's not a problem. Thus far no tummy-aches.

On visas, the deal there seems to be that you can renew the tourist visa endlessly. The folks in Xela seem to take a couple hour ride to the Mexican border every three months, walk across and then return. Seems like kind of a pain in the butt, but not that bad.

Again, thanks for the advice. It's pretty unlikely I'll decide to go there (the crime/violence problem is the biggest negative), but it's good to explore all my options.

Bob

quito0819 wrote:

At one time a fair number of people spoke in glowing terms of Coopera.  Desperate times/people are a gold mine for scam artists...

I heard that there were a lot of people recommending it; people should be careful about such recommendations, because the credulous (or desperate, as you say) may pay heed to the advice, even when those giving the advice might not know what the heck they're talking about (I'll be kind and assume that they didn't have bad motives).

On visas, the deal there seems to be that you can renew the tourist visa endlessly. The folks in Xela seem to take a couple hour ride to the Mexican border every three months, walk across and then return. Seems like kind of a pain in the butt, but not that bad.

Again, thanks for the advice. It's pretty unlikely I'll decide to go there (the crime/violence problem is the biggest negative), but it's good to explore all my options.


A lady who was here in Cuenca with her children left a few weeks ago and is in Antigua. She is very positive, but, of course, has only been there a few weeks.

I was in Guatemala City from 91 to 96.  It was violent then.  From all I've read and people I have talked to I would have to say that the violence has increased.  While a beautiful country...the level of random violence does not suggest to me a good place to retire.

quito0819 wrote:

I was in Guatemala City from 91 to 96.  It was violent then.  From all I've read and people I have talked to I would have to say that the violence has increased.  While a beautiful country...the level of random violence does not suggest to me a good place to retire.

Thanks -- you're confirming what I've heard (and my tentative conclusion). Based on my research, Xela (and Antigua and Lake Atitlan) seems to be not particularly violent (by third-world standards), but if you're in just about any country it's necessary to hit the Big City occasionally, and Guate seems to be really bad, by any standard, and the roads (as I mentioned earlier) are also dangerous. I'll keep thinking about it, but I doubt I'll settle there.

Vargas Llosa is a Peruvian nobel prize winner in Literature.  He is regularly quoted on politics in Spanish newspapers. In fact, I remember some months back Correa quoted Llosa, since Llosa was quoted as sayng the media was being unfair with president Ollanta of Peru. So Correa essentially used Llosa's statement in an attempt to justify the efforts to pass a new media law.

So I find it quite satisfying to see this headline in El Universo:

Vargas Llosa cree que Ley de Medios de Ecuador es probablemente el peor ataque a la libertad de expresión

Vargas Llosa believes that the media law of Ecuador is probably the worst attack to the liberty of express.

Es una ley que va a recortar enormemente la libertad de expresión y el derecho de crítica. Es una ley que está dictada fundamentalmente con el objeto de defender al Gobierno e inmunizarlo contra las críticas independientes", explicó Vargas Llosa.

It is a law that is going to enormously cut the liberty of expression and the right to criticize.  It is a law that is dictated fundamentally with the object of defending the government and immunizing it against independent critics, esplained Varga.

"Todos los amantes de la libertad deben ser sumamente críticos con lo que el Congreso ecuatoriano, desgraciadamente bajo la influencia del presidente (Rafael Correa), acaba de aprobar", agregó.

All the lovers of liberty should be extremely critical with what the Ecuadorian congress, unfortunately under the influence of president Correa, has just approved.

I am on an adventure in Ecuador, and ready to go back home .  First it is not at all what I have read on the internet and other media about retiring here, and  what I expected and anticipated.    It definitely is a third world country.   The weather by the Pacific Ocean, where I flew in is not what I read and expected.  It is not 70 to 80 it is in the upper 90's with high humidity.  Driving in Ecuador is an experience,  there are not lines marked on the road dividing the lanes, it is a free for all, not unusual for a bus stopped at a light on your right side making a left hand turn and just cutting you off.  Red light are another adventure, they are not were you would expect it on top and in the middle of the intersection, but are hidden low and on the sides.  Speed bumps are everywhere, and now think about the biggest speed bump and now tripe it or even quadruple it,  you have to go over it at about 3 or 4 miles per hour.  They do not believe in turn signal, they just use their horns.  The streets and everything else is filthy and broken down.     
I am now in the Andes Mountains , at an elevation of 8,700 feet above sea level and the weather here is much nicer and cooler and less humid, but still the traffic, the drivers, the filth, the noise is not much different then the large city of Guayaquil, where I flew into.       From what I have seen the cost of goods,  and  including hotels and restaurants is very similar as in the US,  I would say possibly 10 to 15 percent less but electronics is about 10 to 15 percent more.   The people are friendly enough but the customer service is totally not existent.  The corruption of the government and the police is scary.    This is a place to visit but,  I do not think I will ever want to ever live in.    I have heard so much about Cuenca, that it is very similar to the cities in Europe, but I was also very disappointed with it.   The very small  portion of Cuenca that is similar to cities in Europe, with its cobblestones paved narrow streets was a reminder of Europe, but the noise and the filth and the pollution of buses running on them was a disappointment.  Speaking with some local in the hotels, I was told that they have seen many expats move to Cuenca and invest a lot of money, and after several months or a year, are so disappointed that they leave everything behind and head on back home. 
The Andes Mountains are beautiful, and I loved the ability to buy fresh organic fruit alongside the road.  My drive from the Andes going back to sea level was another experience.   Dropping down in elevation from  11,000 feet to 3,000 feet threw a downpour rain and extreme fog in 3 hours only to find out the road was washed away and so I needed to drive back to an elevation of 11,000 for another 3 hours.  When I was able to see the mountains threw the fog and the rain they were spectacular.
I also took time out to meet with an Ecuadorian Attorney, regarding shipping my home goods in a container to the port in Guayaquil.  What I found out was a bit concerning, I would have to inventory every item, every shirt, every sock, every book, every pen, every single items that was being imported to Ecuador.  If you are not bringing in much or not at all, that is not a big concern, but if you are bringing your entire house hold goods, it would be a nightmare.  Upon the container arriving in Ecuador,   the customs would open every box and verify every item on your list, anything extra would be confiscated.
The prices of homes at one time was a bargain, but the times has changed.   Needless to say my idea of moving and retiring in Ecuador has flown by the way side.  I hope I have given some one an idea of what Ecuador is really like, and that it is not what the internet and other media portraits it to be.

Well it is good that you made an exploratory trip and decided for yourself that it was not for you. I think most people should go and visit multiple times over a long period of time to really get a sense of the place. I have done just that with several trips over the last decade some as long as a month at a time. I always knew I was leaving and when so I didn't sweat the small stuff. It is a third world country and adapting your expectations is a challenge. While you decided it was not for you, I would suggest that there are many people for whom it would be an appealing destination. All of my experience is with Quito, and after many trips I still consider it to be one of the most magnificent cities on earth. The cost of living there is still very reasonable and much cheaper than most anywhere USA. The weather is spectacular. All you need is a good blanket at night. I was there at several different times of the year and never needed a heater, a/c or even a fan. I started going there to visit a friend and grew to love the place and the people. It is on the short list of possible retirement spots so I continue to haunt related forums trying to keep current. Sorry you decided it wasn't for you but good you found that out now before you got in too deep. Even though so many expats go to Cuenca and there are lots of services and community set up to assist them, I think people that spend some time in Quito may find that it would be a great place to live.