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Any regrets? Do you know people who have moved away?

felinefine81
#1
So I've been offered the job and it's decision time! We are excited to come and live in Malta but also nervous about the unknown.

My husband and i have done so much research on culture, lifestyle, working environment etc. However I don't think you can fully know what the reality is like until you are there and experiencing it.

My question is- does anyone regret moving to Malta and if so, why? What are the things that you have experienced since you moved that you didn't expect?

Or do you know people who have moved there, but decided it wasn't for them and moved away again? If so, what were their reasons?

I'm half excited and half terrified!
See also
mantasmo
#2
Like you said... you really have to come over and experience the madness first hand. :P

Seriously. It depends on what you like/want from life. Sun - sure. Cheap - not in central areas. Good food - nope. Laid back - check. Sidewalks - forget about it. Traffic - stupid crazy. Low taxes - check. ;)

We moved away because we missed: trees, long hikes, being able to walk to places without worrying about being run over (this isn't as bad in places like Mellieha and most of Gozo IMO), good food (there are some really good pizza places but the rest is well < average), heating in winter, and a bunch of other things. But at the same time I know quite a few people who couldn't care less about any of that.
matm911
#3
I believe I know almost the same number of people who left the island again than stayed here. Especially people from "high level countries " :rolleyes: sometimes find it very difficult - if not impossible - to adapt to the local conditions ... regardless of the salary level ...
Self-proclaimed downshifters who are looking for a more relaxed and laidback lifestyle find out, that the more relaxed and laidback lifestyle is not, what they've been hoping to find :huh: ... because they expect that everyone else around keep the attitude and mentality they are used to have in their home country ...

Quite many people I met left again because of the low salary, which does not allow them a good life in the centre - without the need of working on shifts.

In fact I know only 2 persons who left because of the winter conditions (i.e. winter 2014/2015)
felinefine81
#4
Interesting replies, thanks!

matm911 Austria is one of my favourite countries and in fact that is where I got married! Have you lived in Malta long? Do you enjoy it?

We would be moving for a great work opportunity and want to get involved in the local community (not just expats). While the climate is a factor, we are far from the point in our lives of looking to wind down/ downshift. We want to contribute and integrate and I hope we could be accepting of the local ways of doing things.

If we go with the right mindset I hope we enjoy it more: I think we are being realistic rather than thinking of 'the dream experience'!

I hope so anyway! We have a few more things to find out but hope to make the decision soon.
mantasmo
#5
What do you mean by "get involved with the local community"? I've only met a handful Maltese/locals that are interesting. Most rarely venture outside their village. Sure they are polite, they offer help with directions/cooking/shopping tips and stuff but overall most people in Malta are... and I don't mean to insult anyone... not very ambitious. :)
felinefine81
#6
Hi mantasmo.

For one, both my husband and I are musicians and involved in community bands here, we'd had some advice about doing the same over there in our spare time.

I wonder what your definition of interesting is- people don't have to be ambitious to be interesting! I enjoy meeting all sorts of people and judging them on their own merits. I don't see how you can possibly generalise a whole nation like that!
mantasmo
#7
Yep I'm definitely very biased coming from a ecomm/tech/startup background. Most people should completely disregard my posts. :)

I was very surprised to find that there's practically no tech scene on the island. Even places like Menorca (tiny, super tiny - like 60k residents if that) have comparable/bigger tech communities.

I was definitely surprised by how bad the food was in most places. Some good pizza but that's about it. Even expensive restaurants serve mediocre food.

I was surprised to find people with IT degrees working in restaurants waiting tables/complaining about their jobs. Very odd.

...in general, I found that there's a serious lack of interest in anything progressive.

And you are definitely right - people don't have to be ambitious to be interesting. And I did find them interesting at first. For about six months. We left after eight months.

Edit: I realize that I sound like a total asshole but really I'm not. Forgive me. :)
felinefine81
#8
Hmm yes maybe you are looking for different things in life. I prefer a more old fashioned/ simple life probably! And both my husband and I work in more traditional industries with demand for our skills.

We had lovely food when we stayed in Malta last month, but in any case we are both good cooks!
F0xgl0ve
#9

mantasmo wrote:

Yep I'm definitely very biased coming from a ecomm/tech/startup background. Most people should completely disregard my posts.

And you are definitely right - people don't have to be ambitious to be interesting. And I did find them interesting at first. For about six months. We left after eight months.

Edit: I realize that I sound like a total asshole but really I'm not. Forgive me. :)


Perhaps that is because you comment as though you have been on the islands a long time but were actually, as you say, only here for 8 months which really is not enough time to get to know much about the people or anything else for that matter!

Ray

Dents
#10
On all of my visits to the Island, work and leisure, I have met a wide variety of people from all walks of life and found them to be very 'interesting', ambitious and engaging. I still communicate with lots of people and discuss a range of topics at a progressive level for us all.
Regards to food, it is what it is wherever you go - we live in a world that demands cheap fast foods but if you look hard enough or ask around you will find excellent quality at a reasonable cost.
I would point out the YUE health centre in Naxxar as one such establishment - excellent quality and value!!
matm911
#11
I've been working and living in several countries before, and now I'm in Malta. For how long ? - no idea ... yet  :)
Each and every country has it's pros and cons, and Malta is no exception. There are definitely other countries where life would be better ... or maybe not ... however, I try to make the best from what I have --- now.

Since I moved away from working with foreign companies with foreign employees and foreign (work) attitudes (i.e. "Customer Care" sector  :joking: ), I started to really enjoy the life here.

Maltese (like all other people) can be very welcoming and helpful once you know them better :) ... and then it's easy to get "integrated" ... either with locals from work, from any "hobby community" - or even with next door neighbours.
Before, I've always moaned about them sitting all over the beaches with their BBQs, making noise when in large groups, blocking streets with their vehicles for an exhibition or any other uninteresting event ... and now I'm among them ... and like it :D
Still speaking only a few words and phrases in Maltese, but adapting the attitude is much more important ... not pretending to adapt, but really change the own approach.

But this, of course, applies to any other country and it's people as well ... once something goes "wrong" for someone, he'll find himself on a slide to the negative immediately and it's not easy to get away from that ... without constructive help ...
matm911
#12

felinefine81 wrote:

Have you lived in Malta long? Do you enjoy it?.


Will be 4 years now ... and yes, I've learnt to enjoy it  :cool:

I thought a 'dream experience' for me would be a life on a Pacific island ... this is definitively not the case !

felinefine81
#13
Thanks for all the replies! The amount of info I've had from everyone in the last couple of weeks...I think I owe people a few drinks! 🍸🍺🍻🍷🍹☕
V
#14
surprised about the food moans.

Food here is quite good I found - though marked quality drop in summer if you dont avoid the busy parts - generally the veg is good, meat is good, well prepared, the service that goes with it tend to be ok.

I've never before been refunded for food simply because i chose a dish I didn't end up liking - ie. there's nothing wrong with it, i tried something new and it wasnt for me etc

And if you have eating issues like intolerance to gluton, wheat etc - Malta is great compared to the UK.  Almost every restaurant caters for things, most shops even the small corner ones have free from stuff and Pama has a free from section the size of most Coops.

And compared to other EU countries the portion prices are very cheap
matm911
#15
I agree with the quality of food - of course it depends where you go to buy or eat.
Even the variety of different cuisines is quite good for a "city" of 400k citizens  ;)

But I do not agree that the food prizes are good compared with Germany/Austria where you pay sometimes even less for pasta, pizza, salat, steak etc. than here.

At least beer and beverages are much cheaper here :top:
V
#16
matm: sure malta isnt cheapest compared to ALL EU countries, but cheaper than many.

of course it has the salaries to match, so relatively speaking it could be pricey
felinefine81
#17
matm911 if you enjoy the food that is good to hear, as I'm a huge fan of Austrian and German food :)

Oh I would love some schnitzel right now, or kasekrainer, or kasespatzle, or strudel or salzburger nockerl..... yum!
matm911
#18
Hi felinefine81

There's an Austrian Restaurant in Birgu, actually it's a Pizza-Pasta and the like, but the owner/chef is Austrian ... and he makes authentic Austrian food, incl. Wiener Schnitzel with (Austrian style) potato salad. Since the Austrian Sausage Hut has closed, there's still the Bavarian Sausage in Slima for Käsekrainer and Leberkäse  :)

But best is to catch a plane to Vienna over the weekend  :D
felinefine81
#19
Oh my goodness you've no idea how happy this makes me!

We'll definitely still be making our trips to Salzburg/Vienna/Munich but it's great to know we can top up in between! Thanks!
felinefine81
#20
matm911  what's the new of the place in Birgu? Thanks
matm911
#21
Il-Forn Art Gallery and Wine Bar
felinefine81
#22
Thank you :)
nilonilonilo
#23
I think many people get disappointed about Malta and leave again, because they thought it was going to be "like England but with good weather". This country, despite 200 years of British colonialism, is a true and true Mediterranean, almost North African country. Up until the 90ies, it was a developing country. Things don't work here like in Northern Europe.

If you expect things to be like at home, it won't work, you'll get frustrated. You have to realise that you're in a totally different place with a different culture and lifestyle, and it's up to you to see whether you can adapt to it. The country won't adapt to you - never, ever. :)
felinefine81
#24
Thanks. I think we are the opposite- we are looking to leave Scotland far behind and experience a new culture and way of life. If we turned up and it was like England/Scotland with hot weather, that would make us want to leave!

We definitely want to change our lifestyle and fully experience the Maltese experience :D. Fingers crossed we love it.

I've accepted the job, so now trying to make plans. Unfortunately we will be moving at peak time (end July) so that makes it a bit more difficult. Will be worth it when it all comes together!
V
#25
Yeah - I lived in London for 15 years, I can certainly see how it would be a major disappointment to move here without the right attitude or expecting anything to be like in the UK.

I am though from South Africa and so I am quite used to everything being a disaster as far as anything the government touches - like here.  So far no negatives really for me
mantasmo
#26
Malta is not a "true and true" med country. Spain is - good, healthy foods, traditions, celebrations, wine culture, etc. Malta is a tiny country with a very specific (and very interesting) way of life. But it's not representative of a "true med" experience at all. Not even a little bit actually.
matm911
#27
We also came her in July 2012 ... and 2 days later we had the hottest day since 1960 or so  :(

If you manage to lower all your expectations, you'll be positive surprised in many situations ... even when it comes to government issues  :)
The last two years I refused to follow the "new ID-card-hype" because of all the disasters that came with it. 3 weeks ago I finally went there, application process incl. photo took me not even 10 minutes. Last week I've already picked it up :-)

In general, not always following all rules (like the Maltese do) makes the life much easier  :cool:
mantasmo
#28
I agree that the ability to "not follow the rules" is actually a huge plus. It makes life so much easier - as long as you're not a sucker for rules lol.

I don't think that bureaucracy in Malta is that bad tbh. It's alright. Stuff works, things kind of run smoothly and the government leaves you alone.

It's the only country in Europe where you get guaranteed corporate tax refunds (essentially 5% taxation), there's a very clever holding company structure in place (perhaps the best out there), etc. That's one thing we really liked about Malta - you can make 100k, pay 10k tax in total and spend the rest of your money however you like - invest, eat out, buy cars. :D

There are hundreds of people living in Gozo alone who easily make >50k a year (mostly investment income) and either pay no tax or very, very little tax (in cases where they are actively trading and/or run a ecom business or something). All legal, all above the board with full/proper tax returns and all.

So it's not all bad. There are definitely good points as well.
mkiel
#29
I'm maltese moved back here 3 years ago & regret it every day. Malta is a 3rd world country dirty & noisy. The food is boring & mediocre @ best & the people conservative, narrow minded & show little interest in anything outside their small lives.  Corruption @ every level especially politicians.  Most of the year it's too hot & dusty & very few beaches.
trending
#30

mantasmo wrote:

There are hundreds of people living in Gozo alone who easily make >50k a year (mostly investment income) and either pay no tax or very, very little tax (in cases where they are actively trading and/or run a ecom business or something). All legal, all above the board with full/proper tax returns and all.


If they are actively trading, or running an e-com business, then they are working in Malta and should be paying tax at the normal rates. It makes no difference that the work is being conducted over the internet, or that an offshore structure is employed.

felinefine81
#31
Where did you move back from? I suppose a lot of it comes down to comparison.
Allibali
#32
I moved there but although I loved the weather it is like going back to the 1970 s.  Traffic bad until you learn to expect the unexpected always then you will fine, if there is an accident the whole traffic is at a standstill till the crash police come to see what's happened then they can move the cars!  Food shopping is back to before supermarkets as you need to go to different shops for certain groceries, apart from if you travel to lidl which is crowded and pretty crap! the other supermarkets on the island involve trying to get a space in underground car parks before you can even get in them!!  iF you like to travel about you are pretty limited and will soon become bored as the island is very small !!!!  dOnt get me wrong I love Malta .......... But only for holidays. Also please note most jobs require you to speak Maltese!!!
F
#33
The new Pama Supermarket in Mosta nr Naxxar is superb! Far superior than anything here in London currently! .....
robpw2
#34

BlossomGray wrote:

The new Pama Supermarket in Mosta nr Naxxar is superb! Far superior than anything here in London currently! .....


some people just like to moan = i enjoy visiting differnt shops for different things you get a much better experience - you also get to know the staff whcih helps because you get offers and things

also lidl is pretty good too - just dont go on a saturday

felinefine81
#35
Yeah I'm looking forward to shopping locally and only using supermarkets for a big shop every now and then. I do that to a certain extent in Scotland already.

Also, there seem to be plenty jobs where Maltese is not required (with the international firms anyway). In any case I have already secured a job so this isn't a concern.

I love hearing everyone's opinions, can't wait to get out there any experience everything myself. Damn my 3 month notice period!
matm911
#36
I like my local small supermarket and the mini-markets which are open 7 days a week from 6am to 11pm.
Allibali, I do not know where you go shopping, but Pama provides a huge outdoor parking space, at Pavi I prefer the large parking space on the roof, Lasco in Zejtun offers outdoor and underground parking and almost all Scotts have sufficient parking spaces outdoor next to the market - same as Lidls.

btw, rubbernecks bring traffic to a standstill everywhere, not only in Malta. And the narrow roads here (and the driving skills) do not make things better  ;)
V
#37
matm911: you have locals that stay open that much? here its more like 7 to 12 and 4 to 7 hehe - and not on Thursdays
Hazelhorton
#38
Scots do a free delivery if you are going for a big shop if you spend 100 euros you get 12 bottles of water free or 6  coke  you get a loyalty card to save points every shopping trip
mantasmo
#39

trending wrote:
mantasmo wrote:

There are hundreds of people living in Gozo alone who easily make >50k a year (mostly investment income) and either pay no tax or very, very little tax (in cases where they are actively trading and/or run a ecom business or something). All legal, all above the board with full/proper tax returns and all.


If they are actively trading, or running an e-com business, then they are working in Malta and should be paying tax at the normal rates. It makes no difference that the work is being conducted over the internet, or that an offshore structure is employed.


It makes a huge difference if you incorporate properly. Get a trading company, a holding company and any ecom shop can run paying <7% in total taxes.

Employ yourself with a small livable salary, make the holding company a majority shareholder and use that to reinvest money back into the business or buy stuff (cars, boats, property) or whatever you want.

It really is that easy. Company setup costs are very low, banking services are good.

Hit up one of the bigger firms for help with this (Chetcuti Cauchi, etc).

matm911
#40

volcane wrote:

matm911: you have locals that stay open that much? here its more like 7 to 12 and 4 to 7 hehe - and not on Thursdays


The local supermarket is open till 7pm (in summer 8pm), Sundays till 1pm, even our bakery is open until 9pm every day. Miracle foods close at 7pm if I remember correct and opens on Sunday morning. Most of the mini-markets/convenient shops here are open until 10 or 11pm, even on Sundays.

No risk of running out of food here  :D

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