Elec. bill:Corrupted citizens fuel a corrupted system that rips us off

its on all day, but on low, so maybe only using power 25% of the time, so you are about right, maybe lower as for many months it doesn't come on hardly at all. So 1-2 units a day

Lower humidity means feel comfortable at a lower air temp

georgeingozo wrote:

its on all day, but on low, so maybe only using power 25% of the time

This is how I am using it as well. I am mostly worrying though for the a/c. These days we switch them on at 7pm and off 7 hours letter + 3 hours in the morning. That gives 10 hours. Given that they are around 2.1Kw each and at 50% of their power... I can see 10 Units there as well which is close to your 12... Plus cooking I can see reaching 15 units these days...

georgeingozo wrote:

its on all day, but on low, so maybe only using power 25% of the time, so you are about right, maybe lower as for many months it doesn't come on hardly at all. So 1-2 units a day

Lower humidity means feel comfortable at a lower air temp

Why don't you use your a/c in dehumidifier mode? It should be more efficient?

"Why don't you use your a/c in dehumidifier mode? It should be more efficient?" different rooms

georgeingozo wrote:

"Why don't you use your a/c in dehumidifier mode? It should be more efficient?" different rooms

Sorry for been persistent but I try to get to the bottom of it. So you say that if you had a/c in every room you would use them in dehumidifier mode. What I try to persuade my family is exactly this. 2.1 KW Ac in dehumidifier mode is more efficient than the portable 260W thus we should use them more in dehumidifier mode than the "heat" and the result should be similar and more economical.

janagn wrote:

georgeingozo wrote:

"Why don't you use your a/c in dehumidifier mode? It should be more efficient?" different rooms

Sorry for been persistent but I try to get to the bottom of it. So you say that if you had a/c in every room you would use them in dehumidifier mode.

yes

I didnt imply anything my friend - it is a FACT - I have an A id card and I have a residency certificate which was then and still is now a requirement (right or wrong) to get the bills either in your own name or to be accepted on the bill as a registered consumer on the owners bill .....assuming the landlord is telling you the truth and is not hiding anything and is really willing to accept that you want to be on the bill...this is the way it is and has been for a long time..maybe it will change one day. I have had this status for nearly 5 yrs and my bills have been what they should be all the time but then I have the right documentation. I suggest that you find out and obtain the correct documentation and check your bills as I still do

never ever trust the smiley smiley landlord....trust your gut and instinct  - if it sounds to good to be true its usually a good guide

as others have said caveat emptor. do your homework, research  listen and learn from people here who have made their mistakes and try their very best to advise and guide people like you - it sonly takes a little time to consider what people say, check it google it do what you want.....but most people here know what theyre are talking about, they might not always agree with each other but by and large they have lived here a long time are genuine in their guidance

toonarmy9752 wrote:

I didnt imply anything my friend - it is a FACT

I hope it is not the moon but everybody seems to be sensitive today. Maybe it is the written form of chat. I didn't use the word 'imply' with any negative meaning. Just pointed out that it was not clear to me what you meant with the tenants name under the landlords bill. Never questioned nor doubted your experience and this is why I am here. I feel that your "speech" was a little bit... loud

However, and to make things clear, since the first post I pointed out that there are misconceptions that are either cultivated in purpose or by ignorance.  Anyhow, since you know what you are talking about please explain me this:

A consumer may request ARMS Customer Care to register individuals resident in Malta, on a Domestic Premises Service and if the Corporation accepts such a request, the Service shall be considered, until at least one individual is registered on the Service, as a Residential premises Service: Provided that no one individual shall be registered on more then one Service at the same time and that no individual will be registered on a garage or on the common parts of a condominium.

And how does this fit to the Residential status that you "implied" (sorry mentioned).

For one more time, we exchange opinions on a situation. I may be negative to what I have seen or have lived so long but not towards the people of this forum. The island or its social habits does not belong to anybody or to any of our choices in order to defend them via the island. Keep this in mind when you see patronizing phantoms, anti-feminism or wording that you feel do not fit with your mood. Also, we are grown up and lessons about "personal responsibility"  are off topic. Maybe in the court of law... Of course there is personal responsibility but this is as good and extended as the instructions we have been provided. Sitting arrogantly on the throne of the old-timer and moving your finger is just not helpful.

My two cents...

DOMESTIC tariff is used by ARMs for supplying garages and common parts, thus meaning nobody lives in them (or so you would think - however I do agree that the word domestic is the wrong word and does tend to lend itself to fooling people into thinking all is  ok). Domestic tariffs are also applied to "other than primary residence" properties and it is these that are usually rented out to others. Residents here can only have one property benefiting from the Residential tariff. The domestic tariff can be applied in all cases where the renter/tenant/consumer is not registered as a consumer with ARMs and is not a resident in Malta or is not fulfilling the current requirements for residency.

Once those persons have the fulfilled the requirements for residency the appropriate documentation to prove residency is issued by the authorities and can be used to legitimately obtain the lower RESIDENTIAL tariff.  This of course depends much on the landlords agreement to do so.

Please place another two cents in the slot...or press 1 for another poster press 2 to delete my comment or press 3 to disect it. LOL

Good, now we are talking.

No more cents

janagn wrote:

The island or its social habits does not belong to anybody

Most of the Maltese citizens would disagree on that one

georgeingozo wrote:

janagn wrote:

The island or its social habits does not belong to anybody

Most of the Maltese citizens would disagree on that one

Of us of course... of us.... of those that are defined as expats... of those that participate in the forum as new-comers, old comers. All those that did not participate directly to its "social habits" that were forged of course by the local people. Still believe that written speech is not as simplistic as people want to think it is....

or as some locals like to express it "if you don't like it how it is, f**k off back to your own country"

georgeingozo wrote:

or as some locals like to express it "if you don't like it how it is, f**k off back to your own country"

Yes, I love this approach. You cannot fight it but you can definitely appreciate it. Especially when you don't step in horse and dog shit when you walk in your "own country"...

Janagn - you might have not heard of it before, but there is something called 'tone' in the way one expresses oneself in the written word.  Look it up sometime. The 'tone' in which you write is what offends, not the content. My 3 cents worth

btw, the electricity costs increase with excessive consumption and can go up to 0.70,- !!!

rooikat wrote:

Janagn - you might have not heard of it before, but there is something called 'tone' in the way one expresses oneself in the written word.  Look it up sometime. The 'tone' in which you write is what offends, not the content. My 3 cents worth

Prejudice is the name of what you want to express. I assure you... prejudice for people who according to your opinion offend certain choices of yours. Once you get out of the defensive mode and you understand that we don't care why you like Malta but we care to find out if we can like it, then you will understand that comments regarding a degree of Electrical Engineering state simpler things than what you want to state. As long a you don't understand this, my tone will be interpreted more offensive and my attitude will be such eventually.

Now back to the topic if you don't mind. This is an expat forum. Its purpose is not to praise our choice and try to persuade people on how beautiful we managed and what paradise they miss but to list the actual problems that some people may find unbearable.
For me is it unacceptable that one does not have direct control of his electricity and water bills unless if he/she goes through unbelievable and lengthy procedures. For me it is unacceptable that the streets are full of dog shit. It is also unacceptable that every time it rains water pure into your home and the roads are flooded. I also don't like that the island has been buried in concrete to satisfy the needs of club 18-30 and there is no descent beach to swim. I also don't like that the housing is so cheaply build and have no heating to take away to humidity and the mold. Some people feel that this is "take it or leave it". I have to remind them that this i not the ilovemalta.com and my comments are towards warning potential new comers. So if you are not in the payroll of the Ministry of Tourism or you don't feel guilds that your grandfather imposed unimaginable pain to the Maltese people through the noble action of colonization, respect my opinion breath deeply and troll somewhere else.

I predict another breakdown..........

janagn wrote:

For me is it unacceptable that one does not have direct control of his electricity and water bills unless if he/she goes through unbelievable and lengthy procedures. For me it is unacceptable that the streets are full of dog shit. It is also unacceptable that every time it rains water pure into your home and the roads are flooded. I also don't like that the island has been buried in concrete to satisfy the needs of club 18-30 and there is no descent beach to swim. I also don't like that the housing is so cheaply build and have no heating to take away to humidity and the mold. Some people feel that this is "take it or leave it". I have to remind them that this i not the ilovemalta.com and my comments are towards warning potential new comers. So if you are not in the payroll of the Ministry of Tourism or you don't feel guilds that your grandfather imposed unimaginable pain to the Maltese people through the noble action of colonization, respect my opinion breath deeply and troll somewhere else.

Why are you still living in Malta.?  you give a fairly compelling list of reasons not to, and most of them you will be unable to change.

bejesus GnG I am agreeing with you yet again - and i do have to say this as much as i hate to do so - why does anyone stay if the list of things found on malta/gozo is so so compelling and unacceptable about life here....I am not suggesting the "if you dont like it - go" attitude some would happily adopt but it does seem to be the right thing to do..I do admit some things i do find frustrating, some i find unacceptable but we live with it because there are many other things that we personally find much better and gives US the quality of life that WE want.....and at the end of the day nobody says its heaven here, its not perfect - far from it, and there a lots of places to go and live if one chooses to do so.

and rooikat - i do agree with you too....  the tone in janagns written words is a tad harsh and unwarranted..

It seems to me that a particular person on here not only wants to define the function of this forum, which is not his to do but also wants to 'win' every argument he puts forward. This is at the expense of anyone else's feelings and a total lack of how, maybe, just for once it could be the transmitter that is at fault and not all the receivers.
I accept that cultural and language differences, especially used in e-mail can cause some misinterpretation but when so many others are saying what they are and yet that person is still insisting of arguing his point using patronising and arrogant language, I would argue that person is behaving in a 'trollish' manner. I too cannot understand how anyone with such a negative view of the country in which they reside (as a guest) remains in that country.
Some of us have lived and worked all over the world, some of us have lived and worked in over 20 countries and some of us have many many years of experience of life on Malta and Gozo. Why question the advice that those give? LISTEN to it and then decide to accept it or not. But, DON'T argue about it just to win an argument.
I very much agree, if you don't like it, sod off!!

janagn.
This is a perfect example of your presenting arrogant and bullish behaviour.
You wrote;

Prejudice is the name of what you want to express. I assure you... prejudice for people who according to your opinion offend certain choices of yours. Once you get out of the defensive mode and you understand that we don't care why you like Malta but we care to find out if we can like it, then you will understand that comments regarding a degree of Electrical Engineering state simpler things than what you want to state. As long a you don't understand this, my tone will be interpreted more offensive and my attitude will be such eventually.

How can you tell what others are thinking or how they are interpreting your writing? How dare you presume to.
You do really come over as the most pompous, arrogant, misogynistic, patronising and anally retentive person I have ever 'met' on a forum.

I rest my case.

Ahhh the ever lasting bulling argument "If you don't like it why do you stay". Ever so secular simplistic to its consumption, but powerful and full of hidden totalitarian fascism. Of course to the black-white, good and bad, feminism-antifeminism extremes, military politically correctness that I guess many of the zealots have spend their life, there are simpler cases that you don't even consider.
Like for example, people that came full of hopes and they see every day their money wasted and they dreams shattered by exactly the practices that you are feeling so comfortable with. Yes we are about to move out, we just try to see if we can save anything... and yes we register out opinion for people who may wish to come around. You see before August if there was such a thread in here we wouldn't even consider stepping on the island.
Now if one feels very offended because I do think that pensioners have a lot of time in their hands to fight the Maltese bureaucracy or the other thinks that any notion about a woman who does not work is somehow a  misogynistic spike, well touch luck.

None of the issues you have brought up are new. They have been discussed on this and other forums many times before, and many of us have complained about them!  Indeed, on another forum there is a section called "bad vibes" which is full of this, and more. You've only been here a few months, so haven't experienced all the negatives yet. What I and others are trying to say is there are positives as well, but you seem to see none of them. Malta isn't for everyone, and I suggest it maybe isn't for you.

janagn wrote:

Ahhh the ever lasting bulling argument "If you don't like it why do you stay". Ever so secular simplistic to its consumption, but powerful and full of hidden totalitarian fascism. Of course to the black-white, good and bad, feminism-antifeminism extremes, military politically correctness that I guess many of the zealots have spend their life, there are simpler cases that you don't even consider.
Like for example, people that came full of hopes and they see every day their money wasted and they dreams shattered by exactly the practices that you are feeling so comfortable with. Yes we are about to move out, we just try to see if we can save anything... and yes we register out opinion for people who may wish to come around. You see before August if there was such a thread in here we wouldn't even consider stepping on the island.
Now if one feels very offended because I do think that pensioners have a lot of time in their hands to fight the Maltese bureaucracy or the other thinks that any notion about a woman who does not work is somehow a  misogynistic spike, well touch luck.

We agree, although you think we are in a different wavelength. We totally agree. My only argument is that I had positive intentions from day one and had no plan to google or search for "negative vibes". However and since I do care about the debate and how it has turn out to be I do believe that what spoiled the whole discussion is from page one this statement:

To answer your question, his mistake was that he has a wife that is not working and they were advised to buy Electrical radiators to warm the house. His wife most probably had not graduated from Electrical Engineering and had no clue that 2.1KW * 4 radiators * 10 hours = 84KWh per day! * 30 = 2520 KWh per month * 7 months (out of the 18) = 17640KWH! * 0.17cent (minimum) = 3000 euros.

So I will try to explain it again in case that it was was so badly interpreted:

his mistake was that he has a wife that is not working

Means that he essentially did nothing wrong other than had a house working 24/7 since kids and wife were at home

they were advised to buy Electrical radiators to warm the house.

They were, as you advice for other issues. They were never warned about 20cents per kwh and they were told "give me 150 and will be fine"

His wife most probably had not graduated from Electrical Engineering and had no clue....

It means that it never crossed her mind to question the landlord advice. Beside 4 months of heat is nothing comparing to 8 they had before. She stepped in a shop or they stepped in a  shop and they were give a radiator that according to the locals is fine but probably only if you use it as a local.

And yes something un-quoted, they were far too busy to question the initial trouble free ride that had. Now some of you though that  this paragraph mean that "woman are idiots" or I don't know what... again have to advice, check your mood...

janagn wrote:

Ahhh the ever lasting bulling argument "If you don't like it why do you stay". Ever so secular simplistic to its consumption, but powerful and full of hidden totalitarian fascism. Of course to the black-white, good and bad,

Its not us seeing things as black-white.

There is good and bad, its a matter of balancing the two - some bad things you can do nothing about, some can try and change. Most of your "bad" list you will not be able to change - we probably all agree here with most of your "bad" list, but find our "good" list compensates. You don't seem to have a compensatory "good" list, so you either need to find it or leave.

janagn wrote:

We agree, although you think we are in a different wavelength. We totally agree. My only argument is that I had positive intentions from day one and had no plan to google or search for "negative vibes". However and since I do care about the debate and how it has turn out to be I do believe that what spoiled the whole discussion is from page one this statement:

To answer your question, his mistake was that he has a wife that is not working and they were advised to buy Electrical radiators to warm the house. His wife most probably had not graduated from Electrical Engineering and had no clue that 2.1KW * 4 radiators * 10 hours = 84KWh per day! * 30 = 2520 KWh per month * 7 months (out of the 18) = 17640KWH! * 0.17cent (minimum) = 3000 euros.

So I will try to explain it again in case that it was was so badly interpreted:

his mistake was that he has a wife that is not working

Means that he essentially did nothing wrong other than had a house working 24/7 since kids and wife were at home

they were advised to buy Electrical radiators to warm the house.

They were, as you advice for other issues. They were never warned about 20cents per kwh and they were told "give me 150 and will be fine"

His wife most probably had not graduated from Electrical Engineering and had no clue....

It means that it never crossed her mind to question the landlord advice. Beside 4 months of heat is nothing comparing to 8 they had before. She stepped in a shop or they stepped in a  shop and they were give a radiator that according to the locals is fine but probably only if you use it as a local.

And yes something un-quoted, they were far too busy to question the initial trouble free ride that had. Now some of you though that  this paragraph mean that "woman are idiots" or I don't know what... again have to advice, check your mood...

I'd stop digging if I were you.

[moderated : offensive]

Now if one feels very offended because I do think that pensioners have a lot of time in their hands to fight the Maltese bureaucracy or the other thinks that any notion about a woman who does not work is somehow a  misogynistic spike, well touch luck.

I'm not a pensioner and I took offence.
I'm not a woman and I took offence.
Try to see things from another's perspective for a change, if you can.
Try to understand how you present by what you write.

janagn wrote:

redmik wrote:

I'd stop digging if I were you.

Opps sorry I woke you up grandpa

One step too far, though I am a grandparent to three wonderful children.

georgeingozo wrote:

It's not us seeing things as black-white.

As before this is how I get it. Using the "take it or leave it" argument does not help. Anyhow, I do have a list of nice things but that was not the topic but here it is just for the completion of the subject:

1. Locals are nice. Very nice and kind. I am not referring to their financial activity and what  they do when they become landlords but genuinely nice people. I will really miss this

2. The proximity to Italy and the ability to be 40 minutes away from the "summer part of the continent"

3. Good work ethics from the companies that operate here

4. A lot more play areas/activities and usable for kids because of the good weather

For me number 4 was/is still the most compelling reason but I have started questioning if it is enough....

4. A lot more play areas/activities and usable for kids because of the good weather
For me number 4 was/is still the most compelling reason but I have started questioning if it is enough....

I suggest you get out and play more on them then.

Janagn - with respect why would you trust a person you do not know....? by all means listen to advice and comments, consider it even...but do your own research...we all have to do it whether you got time or not. it pays dividends for sure. Maybe some are pensioners with time do so, just as there are people here who are also working long hours and running households and families too - so please dont assume we are all in the former. ignore doing the research at your peril and cost....

there are ways to avoid the many pitfalls that beset new arrivals to the island...estate agents and landlords are not necessarily best placed to advise (they should be, but in practice they are not, albeit they get paid by by both clients) as they have financial gains to make by non-disclosure of certain information. You must also remember many landlords have multiple "good earner" properties and dont realy care about your bills or the tariff you will be on..many just want you in and your cash - after that its business as usual...and as you originally and rightly  posted its often too late when you do actually find out the truth....it may be insulting but thats the way it is in real terms.

I am truly sorry you have had a bad experience of the island...and that you are or are thinking of leaving - thats your call of course. but good luck to you and yours.

toonarmy9752 wrote:

Janagn - with respect why would you trust a person you do not know....?

Don't know mate. I didn't do it but once I found out from my friend I realized that I was about to do it as well. If you had ever lived in Norway and Sweden for example you would know that people there are usually incapable of laying and for this reason they trust people a lot and unconditionally. Well I am not Norwegian of course but I want just to point out that it is cultural sometimes... you see a nice person (see my point 1)   weather is nice, the sea blue, you trust him...

toonarmy9752 wrote:

there are ways to avoid the many pitfalls that beset new arrivals to the island

Not when you are coming from a certain mind set. It takes a while (in my case 3 months) to realize that you have to spend time to do things that otherwise you used to consider given or to deal with lawyers in order to make the system move forward.

Have I decided to live yet? Kinda yes, I have taken the step to move to my previous job and jet every 2 weeks backwards and forwards. That way I may be able to afford at least a housing that can keep my kids warm in the winter and cool in the summer without worrying if the law interpretation will consider me second or first class citizen and charge me differently. In essence the number one problem of Malta is that has not realized that it is part of the EU. It will take around 10 more years to do so... maybe then it worth a second chance

And an other point. I am not really sure how this chat turned to be an issue of "given advices/take advices" etc. What I pointed out form post 1 was that even if you have the data you need it is extremely difficult to implement them cause you run into arbitrary law interpretations and deeply embedded practices. I'll give you an example of a dead end that is irrelevant to advice: There is no clear time as to when should you apply for Resident certificate. Some say from day one some say after 3 months. Some also request a long gone "working permit" some don't. When it come to electricity, it will take 3 more months to issue these certificates. Then you have to fight in order to prove that you need to be reimbursed  for the charges incurred while expecting the certificates and so forth... Do you think this is an issue of advice?

Thanks again

no not really - Putting aside the arguments of legality and discrimination issues  previously mentioned and already discussed elsewhere - I think its currently quite clear in that a person can stay here for three months without having an id card, but if that person is intending to stay longer and wants to have the benefits that id cards and residency certs afford then you should get them as soon as is practical. As once you have these things are much easier.

They do not of course get round the landlord/billing problem, and my only advise is dont sign an agreement until you know and have it in writing and witnessed what this makes you liable for. If you are told "dont worry about it, it  will be ok and that things will be fine" ask for evidence..... IF IN DOUBT WALK OUT.

Janagn, You just don't get it, do you? Loads of ranting, verbosity, opinionated, emotional and all in all presenting a picture of a sad and very rude personae - I'm glad that you are thinking of leaving the island, I'd hate to make your acquaintance.
You will probably reply with another 600 word dissertation that will bore all of us all over again, which I won't bother to reply to. Good riddance.

There are in my mind 2 serious issues that have relevance to this thread.
One is that the Malta Republic is small and scarce in natural resources that are to a great extent taken for granted in other countries. Generation of electricity is expensive, though perhaps the forthcoming cable link to Sicily may abate that to an extent. The provision of drinking water is also difficult and expensive. The paradox is that Malta relies upon tourism and ex pats but the more there are, the greater the issues become.
The other is that is is difficult when living in a small country, not attached to another and one that has had to stand and fight for itself of many years to see itself (in a collective manner) as part of a much greater organisation, in this case the EU.
If I were Maltese born and bred then I would have great difficulty in understanding that.
I have seen the changes in culture since 1978 and often thought how can a country so small and proud and religious cope with the influx of technology, cultures and demands of an ever growing youth population that expect more than before because of the media and other influences available to them.
It will take at least 3 generations to change to accepting that one's proud and independent country is now part of a greater entity.
And, there's a part of me that makes me think it's a shame that it has to.  I can understand why the authorities want to protect their own; we may not agree with that arguing that on a legal basis and having status as EU residents we are entitled but I sure understand it.

toonarmy9752 wrote:

no not really - Putting aside the arguments of legality and discrimination issues  previously mentioned and already discussed elsewhere - I think its currently quite clear in that a person can stay here for three months without having an id card, but if that person is intending to stay longer and wants to have the benefits that id cards and residency certs afford then you should get them as soon as is practical. As once you have these things are much easier.

They do not of course get round the landlord/billing problem, and my only advise is dont sign an agreement until you known and have it in writing and witnessed what this makes you liable for. If you are told "dont worry about it, it  will be ok and that things will be fine" ask for evidence..... IF IN DOUBT WALK OUT.

Again we don't disagree but please see what I say.... These are the logical interpretation that you and me are committing  through experience and personal examples. But these are just experiences. The implementation is different because:
1. Me and my wife for example were instructed (watch the wording) not to apply before 3 months
2. Now we need to wait 3 more months for the paper work to be issued
3. For 6 months we have/will be in a middle stay that our electricity bill tariff is anything anybody can guess.
4. When the paper work will be issued we will have to fight to be reimbursed for the additional charges.... unlikely

So don't get confused with what is quite clear with what actually happens... and to this I have, funny enough, to totally agree with redmik and then this is the bottom line: It will take 3 generations for the country to get in sync with the general European practices so it is a take it or leave it thing BUT only after to experience it.