Recently returned from visiting Panama -- my thoughts & impressions
I had started a previous thread when I was going to visit but figured a new one would be better post-visit. So, without further ado...
My friend and I arrived in Panama on 6/30, at around 3pm. After getting our luggage and a rental, car we headed for Boquete. It's quite a long car ride from Tocumen (the int'l airport) to Boquete so we split it up over two days. Overall, I was surprised by the number of people out and about; either walking or waiting for the bus. It's a little bit intimidating at first although I thought nothing of it by the end of the vacation. The roads (we stayed mainly on the Pan-American highway) were decent (small potholes) to very good (recently paved) during our drive to Boquete. In fact, they were pretty good during the entire trip. However, when it gets dark, it gets dark. There aren't really any street lights nor many lights from businesses, etc. along the highway. That, along with all the rain, made it a slower drive than I had anticipated.
The first night we stopped in Las Lajas and were lucky enough to find a B&B late into the night -- Residence Las Lajas. The owners were awesome; they basically saved us from having to sleep in the car (long story) and gave us a nice, clean room which ended up having an awesome view. Luckily, one of them spoke decent English as well (I don't speak Spanish very well). Not only that, but our breakfast the next morning was amazing. I can't recommend their place enough if you're ever in the area. We checked out the next morning, went to the nearby (basically deserted) beach and then hopped in the car to go to Boquete...
The drive to Boquete was nice with some good scenery. I don't remember how long it took from Las Lajas -- maybe a couple hours as there was some roadwork (and a detour) after David. We arrived around 1pm local time and decided to get a room at a hostal right off the main road and then walk around. Our hostal was pretty run-down but it was sufficient for a night (and only $10/person). My initial impression of Boquete was that it was a nice, friendly town. The scenery and views are quite beautiful too. There were a lot of people out and about, with a good mix of locals and foreigners (I had heard 25% of residents in Boquete are expats). Like most of the towns I saw in Panama, some parts of it are a little bit older and dirtier (at least, compared to where I live in the States) but I never felt unsafe or threatened. While we found some English-speaking people, it's definitely helpful to know Spanish (e.g. ordering food, etc.).
There are quite a few little stores and shops with some trinkets and souvenirs. We tried to go on a nature walk/hike but we eventually got rained out. After all, it is the rainy season and it simply poured most of the afternoon. After getting out of the rain and drying off we eventually ended up eating at a little cafeteria right off the main road -- the food was cheap ($3.50 or so for a lunch/dinner plate) and was pretty good. In fact, we ended up eating breakfast there the next morning ($1.75 for eggs, bread, and a cafe con leche) before heading out for some rock climbing.
There are quite a few activities that you can do in Boquete (rent ATVs, rock climb, rafting) but I'm glad we chose rock climbing. It was a beautiful morning and our rock climbing guide was amazing. I would absolutely recommend going if you're in the area.
We left soon after finishing rock climbing so that we could move on to the Pedasi region. While we didn't do a whole lot of exploring, it was nice town with some beautiful scenery and good weather and I can see why a lot of expats choose to live there.
Feel free to ask any questions. I'll be back to post my thoughts on Pedasi/Venao.
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After finishing some rock climbing, we headed out toward Pedasi. Now, from what I had read, it should be about a 5 hr drive from Boquete to Pedasi. However, it took us a bit longer than 6 hrs. The drive in was rather uneventful although we did manage to get lost in both Chitre and Las Tablas (not for a long period of time, thankfully). The road in from Divisa (where you turn to go to Pedasi) is really nice. It was still being worked on but will be 4 lanes most of the way and is very well paved.
We arrived in Pedasi around 7pm that evening and quickly got a hostal for the night. Fortunately, I know enough Spanish to where we could get a room as the owner spoke zero English. We proceeded to go next door to Smiley's to get some dinner. Smiley's is a nice place on the edge of town owned by an American (I think he said from Michigan). It's a little expensive and definitely gringo-ish (I know that's not a word) as almost everyone there spoke English. Pedasi was rather 'dead' -- not many people out and about and not really much going on. In fact, it was like that for the few days we spent in the town. After dinner and a couple drinks, we grabbed some supplies from supermarket across the street and headed back. Since it was so late we didn't do much exploring that night but decided to get up early and hit the beaches and check out the town.
Overall, my first impression of Pedasi was that it is a quiet, quaint little town. I felt comfortable there right off the bat as it seemed to have a nice 'vibe' to it. I'll post again with my thoughts on the actual town, beaches, etc at a later time.
I found the town to be nice with some friendly people and very quiet overall. I hear it gets pretty crazy at Carnival time, however. We walked around and checked out the town square and nearby church as well as a few little shops. We grabbed some food from a local cafe and I got a pretty good drink called a chicheme. We spent most of the day just checking out the town and various eateries. We ended hitting up Playa Arenal but only for a bit as that seemed to be a "working" (i.e. fishing) beach; a lot of boats out on the water. If you wanted to visit Isla Iguana (easily viewable), that would be a good place to hire someone to take you out there.
Overall, if you're a party animal, Pedasi is definitely not for you. But if you're looking for a quiet, safe town near the beach I'm not sure you can do much better. I think it'd be a good family town although I'm not sure about the local school; it looked pretty run down. There's talk about a new international school but nothing concrete. Additionally, there doesn't seem to be a lot of kid-friendly activities although I imagine that will change as (if?) more expats move to the area. There seems to be a lot of investment going on in town (new hospital, new airport, new houses, etc); in fact, I wonder if it's a little too much, too soon. The two days spent there were relaxing and I rather enjoyed it but we decided to head up to Playa Venao (about 30 min away) the following day...
Now, on to Venao. Well, we actually didn't go straight there but checked out Destiladeros beach (I think the turn is just outside of Pedasi, around Limon). The road down to that beach was nicely paved with a few homes/hotels interspersed. The beach itself was deserted and water was rather choppy that day. There are some hotels/villas right off the beach. They seemed pretty nice and secluded and would probably be a great place to just 'get away' from everything.
On the drive to Venao there were the occasional nice views - generally toward the interior of the country, not the shoreline. Once we were in the area, we decided to stop at Eco Venao and see if we could grab a cheap room for the night. Eco Venao was fairly nice, really close to the beach, and the setup was very interesting (it's an 'eco-friendly' hostel) with some dorms and a some private cabanas. I wouldn't really recommend Eco Venao if you traveling with small children but it was sufficient for us.
You can rent surfboards and kayaks there at EV; we opted for some kayaks. The beach was not crowded at all -- there were some people out surfing and a few playing some beach volleyball. I can see why it's a popular surf spot -- the swells were probably in the 4-5 foot range. That made it a little intimidating in a kayak but it was amazingly fun. After kayaking, we headed down to a hotel restaurant (was probably a 15 min walk on the beach but we elected to drive) for some dinner. The view was spectacular and the food was good, although a bit expensive ($9-$18 per entree, or so). After that, we headed back to EV and decided to hang out at the bar/restaurant that was on its premises. There were a few Americans there and the bartender spoke English as well.
Overall, Venao was pretty fun for the day or so we were there. There doesn't seem much there, however, if you're not a surfer. It's a nice little vacation spot but I don't think it's a great place to live (for me, that is) as there's less to do there than there is in Pedasi. That said, it is only a short drive from Pedasi and I think the plan is to have some developments in the area (if I remember right "Blue" is one of the planned ones although I don't think there's any development yet). I think it could be a nice place if you're looking for a pretty quiet, relaxing, surfer-centric town. It's definitely a bit off-the-beaten-path and extremely "chill."
Although I would've liked to gone on to Cambutal and/or Tonosi, we decided to head back toward the interior of the country and get closer to Tocumen (as we were traveling w/o a good map and our GPS) to prepare for our return trip in a couple days. So, we decided to hit up El Valle...
I decided to go ahead and upload some of the pictures from my trip. For those that are interested, you can view them here. They're organized by location (Pedasi, Boquete, etc) although I have not gone through and added any captions to the photos. I'm not the best photographer in the world but I hope everyone enjoys them.
Anyways, the last stop on our trip was to El Valle. I wasn't sure what exactly to expect as its not a town I had read a lot about. The drive in from Venao was easy (didn't get lost in Chitre or Las Tablas this time) although we did get stuck behind some cows (yes, cows) a little outside of Pedasi. I don't recall much about the drive other than the road in from the Pan American to El Valle was probably the windiest (i.e. a lot of twists and turns) road I've ever traveled on.
My initial impression of El Valle was that it reminded me a bit of Boquete - but I think most of that was due to being higher in elevation, the weather, and the main road in town. The were a couple other things that jumped out immediately: 1) the number of people on bicycles and 2) the number of dogs running around freely. I'm sure I saw more people on bikes in El Valle than I did in all the other places combined. I think the same could be said for the dogs; they were everywhere. But they minded their own business and were unfazed by everything - in fact, later on when we were trying around town I had to drive around some dogs who decided just to sit in the middle of the road!
Once we got our bearings a little bit (there's a little tourist info center right by the outdoor market although, oddly enough, the guy working didn't speak English), we grabbed some food and just walked around town. There were quite a few shops with souvenirs as well as people selling things at the outdoor market. I bought some stuff my kids and we went and grabbed a room for the night.
Rather than try to walk all over town (we figured people had bikes there for a good reason), we just got in the car and drove. Unfortunately, we didn't really know where we were going (we heard there was a nice waterfall somewhere in the area but we couldn't find it) but it was nice to see the houses and people out and about. Eventually, at the base of a mountain/hill, we decided to hop out of the car and hike up to the top. The hike up probably took over and hour and it was pretty steep. There weren't too many people walking but the occasional bus would drive by us. Considering most of the road was gravel and the roads were steep, I'm not sure I would feel comfortable on the bus but I guess you get used to it. The view from the top was awesome -- the pictures don't really do it justice. I could even see Panama City and that was a couple hours away.
I liked El Valle quite a bit during the short time (less than a full day) we were there. If I were considering Boquete as a place to live, I think El Valle would be right there with it. The weather was very nice and the scenery was beautiful. The outdoor market with fresh food and vegetables was a nice bonus and I felt quite safe there. The people were friendly - although my friend says we got some bad looks when we were hiking up the mountain (I didn't see any, though). There were a few foreigners but it seemed to be more locals (as a percentage) than I saw in either Boquete or Pedasi. There also must be some really nice houses in the area as I saw a few really nice cars (Porsche Cayenne S, Lexus LX470). Overall, I was pleasantly surprised and I'm glad we chose it as the final stop on our trip.
You are correct about there not being much for expats with small children in Pedasi. There are a couple of good schools in Las Tablas but not much in town. There seems to be younger families moving into Venao, yoginis and surfers, and there has been a nursery school started for the little ones. A few people with small children Home School and some do a combination of Home School and the school in town for a half day. During Wet Season it is a sleepy little fishing and farming community, but there are outdoor activities for the children, something that has changed in North America. There are also many more deserted beaches in the area that you likely didn't have time to find. That is part of the appeal of living here.
You're correct in saying that the housing developments are very slow going here. And don't let the signs for more housing fool you, the market is oversaturated right now and there is not enough workers to go around. There is only one that I believe is building at a suitable pace, one house at a time, with a good fully supervised crew and subcontractors. And you're right, to build in the two that you mentioned you have to have deep pockets and be able to find a rental so you can have "boots on the ground" while building. Most of the time for well over a year.
When we returned from our first trip it really was a toss up between El Valle and Pedasi, briefly. We both agreed that El Valle was pretty but a little too chilly and not close enough to the beach. The twisty road during Wet Season didn't appeal to us either.
Good luck with whatever decision you try to make! And your pictures were beautiful.
If you have children, I think this requires a lot more consideration than being a retiree would give! I am not sure I would bring kids here - I guess it depends on their ages, and how long I planned to stay. One American friend of mine plans to return to the US for when his oldest reaches middle school age.
Nice writing on your part -and engaging to follow. Thanks
Iris
Hope you decide to visit again!
Iris
AlliG wrote:I posted my trip here on Expat.com a while ago (we went in Oct and March). Hope to be in Panama within year and a half!
Very cool; I'm going to go track down your trip report. I really liked El Valle; very picturesque and friendly.
Indacampo wrote:Thank you for posting your observations without bias. It was wonderful reading your travel commentary and you covered so much in such a short time.
...You're correct in saying that the housing developments are very slow going here. And don't let the signs for more housing fool you, the market is oversaturated right now and there is not enough workers to go around. There is only one that I believe is building at a suitable pace, one house at a time, with a good fully supervised crew and subcontractors.
Good luck with whatever decision you try to make! And your pictures were beautiful.
Thanks for reading; I tried to be fair in my observations as I am just trying to make the right decisions for my family. Just curious, what development/area are you talking about when you refer to "building at a suitable pace?" I also noticed some smaller developments going up as well as the Pedasi Palms (condos) which are planned to be built. Pedasi felt like it's undergoing a lot of changes in a short time frame and I'm curious what it will be like 5 yrs from now. Hopefully, the town will retain its charm and character.
Toddlewis wrote:A great story - full of information for another tourist, and your observations were pretty much what to expect when you live here.....
If you have children, I think this requires a lot more consideration than being a retiree would give! I am not sure I would bring kids here - I guess it depends on their ages, and how long I planned to stay.
Thanks! It's hard to make a definite decision based on just a few days but, yeah, I agree that I'm a bit hesitant to live there right now. We could homeschool without a problem but I wish there were a few more activities for small children. Other than that, it seems like a great place to live and I enjoyed the town/area.
We have a small place in town. And no, we don't find it noisy. (That's the first question we're asked.) Everyone moves to Panama for different reasons, and we enjoy being part of the community.
Indacampo wrote:We have a small place in town. And no, we don't find it noisy. (That's the first question we're asked.) Everyone moves to Panama for different reasons, and we enjoy being part of the community.
Very cool; thanks for the info too.
Some final, somewhat random thoughts about Panama:
+ I'm not one to usually gush about plant life but Panama is frickin' beautiful. I was really impressed by the natural scenery and beauty of the country.
+ I didn't see many animals outside of birds, dogs, chickens, and cows. I was a little surprised by that.
+ I was expecting a LOT more bugs; the sand flies got me some on the beaches but that was it.
+ The sheer number of people out and about and on the buses was impressive.
+ Only saw one or two stoplights in the entire country (I avoided Panama City for the most part) -- loved that.
+ Panama is definitely not third-world but it is certainly not as developed as the US -- that's not necessarily a bad thing.
+ Most of the buildings are not as well-maintained (e.g. dirtier) as what you see in the US. At least, when you get out into the country.
+ There's a lot of development/infrastructure going on in Panama; pretty impressive. The roads, overall, were good to excellent.
+ Panamanians were friendly; I never felt threatened or unsafe but, like anywhere else, I'm guessing if you're looking for trouble you'll find it
+ It seemed like a "simpler" life than what I'm accustomed to -- no idea if that's true or not. But, if so, I mean that as a compliment.
+ I realize it's extremely difficult to get a feel for a country by just traveling for a week, but I would be willing to live there. Or, at least, try it out for awhile.
+ One more -- the native food seemed kinda bland but I did like the sancocho I had in Pedasi.
I didn't really have any expectations from Panama so I tried to keep an open mind about the country. I don't think it's paradise on earth but it is a friendly, beautiful country. I wasn't "blown away" by it but I did enjoy my time there.
From the outside looking in, whether or not the country is livable, depends on your mindset. If you are easy-going and willing to adapt to the language and to the culture, then I think most people will do fine there. To me, it's a good choice for those looking for a different culture and style of life.
We came for the simple life, the lack of stuff, the absence of the competitive edge...and found it here.
Read my blog: postcardsfrompanama.net and my book "Panama? Why Panama?" for more on this!
Sincerely, Iris
brownsand wrote:Thank you sooooo much for sharing your trip. I've read info on Panama for the last 2 years. Nothing, nothing compares to your posts. I just need to know one thing. Are there any beaches in Panama, where the water is crystal clear?
Thanks; I'll echo what Alli said in that Bocos has clear water (from what I've heard and read). I wanted to get up there but, unfortunately, we didn't have enough time and it wasn't at the top of my list of livable places in Panama to visit.
Toddlewis wrote:The interior IS third world in most ways. Whether you speak of education, standard of living, or cost of living, most Panamanians are poor by first world standards. They are not unhappy with their lot, in fact they are happy, delightful people. If one can handle seeing the poverty, living with lower standards than in North America, without the daily luxuries, enjoying the simpler life, this place may suit you!
You would know better than I would but by third world I meant that I didn't see people living in huts, major roads were paved, there was electricity and running water, etc. My friend had been to Ecuador about 10 years before and noted how much more developed Panama is than Ecuador was when he visited. I definitely noticed it wasn't the same as the US/Canada or most of Europe but there is a certain appeal to that (at least from the outside looking in) once you get past the initial shock. Either way, it was an eye-opening visit and I'm glad I went.
kerley5 wrote:did you decide it was a place, Panama, you felt comfortable raising two daughters?
Yes but with some reservations. One, I was only there for about a week and I think it's difficult to know anything for sure in that short of a period of time. Also, my comfort level would be pretty dependent on where and how I chose to live. I didn't feel that comfortable outside of Tocumen or around PC (I didn't feel unsafe, really, either...just not comfortable). I did feel comfortable and safe in El Valle and Pedasi (Boquete too). My concerns for living there with them in either of those towns is the (seemingly) lack of activities for them -- soccer, dance, gymnastics, whatever. And, I was not impressed by the couple schools I saw in Panama - which is why I would lean to home-schooling. That fact - coupled with the lack of activities - would make it difficult for them to make friends and integrate themselves/us into the community. I think the older your kids are, the harder the transition will be.
So, that's my long, rambling answer . After visiting, I see why people say you just need to visit and decide for yourself. Everyone has different standards and qualifications and things they are looking for in a move. I really did enjoy my visit and there were no 'red flags' that would prevent a move but it also made me realize how good we have it in the US.
For what it's worth, we may move (or live part-time) there in the future but we've decided to stay where we are for now.
We have decided for the most part to home school and plan a year there to see if forever is in the pic. We figure if we do that then worst thing is the trouble to move back and forth.
By the way curious where are you now?
Thanks,
Gene
What a nice observation about the expat-favorites in Panama.
kerley5 wrote:Thank you for the clear reply I am too concerned about activities, to an extent but then I watched my kids over the last month to see jut what motivated them to be 'active" and to my surprise that fell more on me (us) then I realized. Yes the oldest says now can I go t my friends but then they play xbox or basketball or ride bikes all which he can do anywhere.
We have decided for the most part to home school and plan a year there to see if forever is in the pic. We figure if we do that then worst thing is the trouble to move back and forth.
By the way curious where are you now?
Thanks,
Gene
We live in the Midwest (US), (Kansas City area) currently. In re-reading my previous post, I think maybe I overstated my concern for activities and schooling. Yes, it is a fairly big deal but it's not a deal-breaker for us and, frankly, it's something we could live with. Also, totally agree that their activity levels is highly dependent on us as parents. If we lived in Panama, I'm pretty sure we'd probably discover some opportunities for involvement that I'm not going to find out about on a short trip.
I would still like to live there at some point and the fact we've decided to stay (for now) is due to numerous factors and is not really based on my trip. The trip just clarified some of the more important questions (is it safe? how do people live? are they friendly? do they resent foreigners?) we had. The biggest challenge for us is just leaving the comforts of home and our current lifestyle and moving far away from family and friends to learn a new language and culture. If we were committed to doing that, then we'd probably move now. Anyways, good luck in your decision. I hope all that helps (although it might just add more confusion). I'm curious to see what you guys decide to do.
tombseekers wrote:I'm retired and live in Boquete. There are many expat children who live and go to school here. There are many options from public to private schools...
Thanks for the post and link to your blog (already read multiple posts!) -- I'm always looking to find out more information from people who actually live there.
If any one out there knows a good situation on a rental or rent to purchase that dates may line up with ours please connect us with them we are looking for 3 bed 2 bath on beach or in country side but would want some land around the country house if we go that route. I do a garden every year..
Thanks all so much we really need and appreciate experienced direction, Toddlewis blogs are very helpful as well as her advice.
Thanks,
Kerley5
My name's Chris. I used to be much more active in these forums, but I haven't been visiting as often as I used to. I'm an expat living in Panama, working here, and I have 4 kids. You're absolutely right. Schooling here is not cheap. In Columbus, Ohio, my kids were in a brand new, public school, that was amazing and we didn't pay a dime. Here, the schools aren't nearly as pretty and they cost a fortune.
That's the reality. But that doesn't mean it's not possible to do it here. I have my kids enrolled in the King School. It's an all Spanish school (with an English class). My kids didn't speak a lick of Spanish when we moved here 4 years ago, but they're doing great now and completely bilingual. My daughters are ages 11 and 8 (in 5th and 3rd grade right now) and I paid $750 for each to enroll them in the school That covers books but not uniforms. Then I pay a total of $240 per month for the two of them. My sons are starting kindergarten this coming year and I paid $500 for each to enroll them in the school and next year we'll be looking at about $500 per month total for all 4 kids. That's fairly cheap compared to most schools in the area. The website for my kids' school is http://www.kingspanama.com/
I have found one school that's rather small, in an area called Panama Pacifico, which used to be Howard Air Base and has now been turned into an upscale residential community just past the Bridge of the Americas, which leads from Panama City to the interior of the country. The school is called Howard Kids Academy. The website is: http://www.howardkidsacademy.com/
I just tried to visit their website myself, to quote you the costs, but it looks like their site is in the process of being updated. I can't remember the costs, but I know it was much cheaper than what I'm paying now and way cheaper than what you mentioned in your post. With the site being updated, I'm concerned the prices might change to. It's worth checking out though.
A lot of the schooling issues also depend on where in the country you're considering basing your life out of. The whole Coronado/Santa Clara beach area has several international schools, but I'm not sure what the costs are. http://www.playacommunity.com/ is a good site to check for what's going on in that area. http://www.corointschool.com/ is the website for Coronado International School.
What some people do, especially in some of the smaller towns, like the really cool beach town of Pedasi, is send their kids to the local public school half the day (which would more than likely be full Spanish) and then homeschool the kids the rest of the day. Nowadays, through web schooling, it can be a lot cheaper to teach your kids that way.
So...I hope I've helped a little bit. I'm here as a young expat, 34 years old, with a Panamanian wife and 4 young kids (11 and 8 year old daughters, and twin 4 year old boys). I'm trying to figure it all out. I'm doing it, but it's definitely a challenge. Most of the expats here are retirees. This is a great place to live off of retirement income, and it's a great place to run an internet based business. Working here is a challenge. And of all the expenses that will be a burden on your budget, schooling is definitely the most difficult to handle.
I'm planning to write a post about schooling on my blog soon. If you want to check out my blog, you might find some useful info there at www.thestayathomegringo.blogspot.com. I haven't been blogging as much as I used to (as I'm not so much of a stay at home gringo anymore), but I plan to get back into it and I'm also working on a brand new website that will be stuffed with great info for expats looking towards Panama.
Good luck and I hope you find what you're looking for. Let me know if I can help in any way.
Chris
I would like to add my thoughts to the amazing level of detail that MizzouFan has provided. My thoughts are: ditto.
Great job capturing our trip! It's crazy to me that you captured our experiences so well, and that I don't have anything to add, except for: The four Panamanian beer tastes like (and probably are) watered down Miller Lite.
Other than that, AWESOME job summarizing our trip.
If you choose a country location like David, Boquete, etc. it's like raising your kids in the 50s. Personally, I think it's a great place to raise kids. They are extremely respectful, are not hardwired to electronics 24/7, and it's safe. My friend and I were just talking this morning about how a few American kids have adapted. As they got into their mid -teens, they realize how good they have it. You would have to be careful in selecting schools as there are significant differences in them.
You would need to visit for as long as your time allows to see if Panama is for you. Start learning Spanish - just please and thank you goes a long way. Your kids will pick it up within a few months. In Boquete we don't even have a McDonalds!!! And we hope to keep it that way. It's very healthy here.
@Toddlewis
As a Panamanian I can tell you couple litte things, The food in Restaurant is Expensive, but not in tge,Supermarket.
Pedasi is a small town that is just growing very slow surrounded by beautiful beaches that offer good fishing and relax time.
About prices of the houses you need to have a Local to find you tge right Contractor to build your House, there are very Cheap Lots in Gated Communities but if you are buying a house it is quite expensive.
I can find the right Lot for you under 25K in Gated Comunity and Build your House for a very affordable price.
DO NOT BUY BETTER BUILD.
I can be very helpful.
Manuel Pinzon
Whatsapp ****
e in anywherelo in Panama.
Reason : Do not publish public data please
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