Why is staying on topic important?

Netiquette Tran Hung Dao, and common/basic rules on forums

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off_topic

"Posting off-topic messages to deliberately aggravate other members is a form of trolling."

Julien wrote:

Netiquette Tran Hung Dao, and common/basic rules on forums

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off_topic

"Posting off-topic messages to deliberately aggravate other members is a form of trolling."

How about adding an easier icon for Off-topic, like you have with "quote" instead of the hard to find emoticon .  I tell you, in the Việt Nam Forum, we have alot of older users who just like to talk to each other, and we get heavily remind to this effect.  They get senile and forget what topics is being discussed.  A lot of the long timers are retirees in Việt Nam.  I once had to teach a person how to use the "quote" button because he was just replying to people in general and I didn't know who he was talking to.

This shouldn't aggravate other members >>>Oh, how about a filter to NOT read off-topic posts for them to toggle?  So all my old-fart members can just yak it up till the cows come home while the younger hot heads can just filter them out and not read OT posts?

maybe you should have a general chat thread you can send people to if they just want to blather on?

I think even if people aren't doing it to troll, it's good to keep the topics on-topic. It's useful later if someone comes and asks a question if we can point them to a relevant thread that doesn't contain a lot of other "fluff"

ECS wrote:

maybe you should have a general chat thread you can send people to if they just want to blather on?

I think even if people aren't doing it to troll, it's good to keep the topics on-topic. It's useful later if someone comes and asks a question if we can point them to a relevant thread that doesn't contain a lot of other "fluff"

Yah, I just started a no-topic thread for people to blab.  I'm not really sure who is aggravated as most members don't mind going off-topic.  You read like the first 5-6 posts and it answers the OP's questions usually.  We answer the question first (work) then we socialize (play).  Then we get mad when a moderator closes the thread without explaining why.

Hello Tran,

If member insist on posting OFF TOPIC replies on active threads then how in the world can other members who are seeking really RELEVANT information search for that?????

If I post a question, or more importantly, some significant information on VISAS to a topic that is about local schooling how is anybody doing a topic search ever going to find it?

It is exactly for this reason that moderators constantly keep watch on the threads posted and do their very best to keep members ON TOPIC.

To do otherwise would be complete anarchy, which in the end would destroy the whole concept of Expat-blog. It would essentially turn it into something like Facebook, where you get flooded with an unending list of all your contacts' updates, but couldn't search any of them specifically to save your soul. Now do you see WHY it is so important?

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil & Canada Expert, Expat-blog Team

That depends on what type of "eyeballs" you want on a website.  I already got it that Expat-Blog is a simple Q&A website.  A user who wants to find information on say, "how to extend a Visa?" can come on a country specific forum and query to find that answer.  Then they just leave.  Maybe return, maybe just use the Expat-Blog as a library.

Do you get alot of eyeballs to help advertising revenue?  I don't know.

Then there are your veteran Expats who already know about Visa but hang out on the forums because going outside their homes would require speaking the native language.  They want to connect with people of their home culture...essentially...well, the example is in Việt Nam, there are often retirees that like the low cost of living.  But they don't integrate well with the locals since they don't speak Vietnamese.  Hence, they like to hang out on Expat-Blog and yak it up with their cyber-friends. 

Most aren't tech savy and don't even know how to upload an image or use a link.  They just know to click the "reply" button and yammer it up.  Off topic is a frequent "violation" to this group of users.

But this group of users are loyal and will keep your eyeball numbers constant.  They may even click on an ad or two.

I see your point about the functionality of the website as a Q&A deal, but with so many other expatriate forum types popping up left and right, you'll need to find a way to keep a loyal following.

You're clearly mistaken that Expat-blog is simply a "Question & Answer" Forum, far from it. Exactly how many forums have you actually looked at? From what I can see is that aside from your postings here on the "Help us improve the website" Forum that ALL of you other postings (except one single posting on the Sweden Forum) have been on the Viet Nam Forum. Are you judging ALL of Expat-blog on one forum? 

There are lots of ongoing discussions on various topics an most of the national forums. Members also arrange Expat-blog meet-ups, etc.

As far as your comment about "find a way to keep a loyal following"... Son let me tell you one thing from personal experience of somebody who has been around the block a few times and devotes a whole lot of volunteer time and energy to Expat-blog. The blog is over 7 years old now, has been growing and changing all that time, always for the better and the membership is constantly growing....... I don't think Julien has anything to worry about in terms of a loyal following.

But, that was really a good one..... made my day!

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

We answer the question first (work) then we socialize (play).  Then we get mad when a moderator closes the thread without explaining why.

Tran,

Would you please be so kind to show me where it's written that Administrators, Team members, Moderators HAVE TO give an explanation for deleting off topic posts or closing threads on ANY forum boards you've ever posted to??? I've used many and none of them give explanations, the postings simply disappear. On many other forums I've seen even complaints about moderation also disappear. Here, most of the time there is at least an explanation.

Sorry to say this, but I've looked at the Viet Nam Forum and compared to many of the other national forums here, it looks like the inmates have taken over the assylum! I read several topic postings and not one that I opened wasn't filled with absolutely trivial blah, blah, blah that wouldn't be tolerated on most other forum boards that I know of.

I don't know what it is, but clearly you have far too much idle time on your hands. You're obviously a very intelligent person, at least your writing shows that to be the case. I'd suggest you put it to much better use, with all due respect.

I'm with Tran on this one.  This site is both over-moderated and under-moderated - and because people always freak out when you talk about moderators, now I have to say that I'm not complaining about them.  It's a difficult job, thankless job and etc.

In my opinion, it's perfectly acceptable to play after the work is done, to use Tran's words.  For example, if someone asks a visa question in the Brazil forum and gets several decent answers – most of which are probably already in the 100 other visa topics and the dozen visa stickies – I don't see anything wrong with everyone having a conversation.  I think conversation is a good thing and I can guarantee that there would be far fewer "eyeballs" without it.  Before someone completely misinterprets what I said, I'm not saying to let anarchy reign.  But there has to be something in between anarchy and deleting any post that doesn't adhere to someone's arbitrary idea of what should be said in any particular situation.

On this topic https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=319062 a question was asked and answered.  The entire conversation after it is off-topic and yet no one got hurt.

This site has a very diverse group of people.  There are about a million different definitions of off-topic – and most of them are correct.  But it seems to me that most people only see their definition as correct and think every other definition is incorrect.  When you have the power to delete posts – or move or whatever you want to call it – you almost have to be very open-minded.  With great power comes great responsibility – or so says Batman or Aquaman or whoever.  I don't think moderation should be based on personal bias.  Not everyone expresses themselves in the same way.  How you say it might be different from how I'd say it.  That doesn't mean I should delete your way because it's not my way.  People say a lot of things I don't like, but I would never delete those posts – unless it's spam or pure evil.

There may not be a rule that the moderators have to explain why they deleted something, but I think it's common courtesy to show everyone that something was deleted.  Some sites put some kind of [mod edit] note where a post used to be.  Sometimes that happens here and sometimes it doesn't.  When it doesn't, people get confused.

Hi Hailey,

While I agree that in some cases (like the topic you linked to where you and I were playing games) postings not directly related to the topic aren't a big deal and not harmful.

That said what I'm talking about and the main reason for keeping postings ON TOPIC is the need for other members to be able to access that information in the future.

As I pointed out if I simply post some really important information about visas to a topic posting about schooling there is absolutely no way whatsoever for anybody to access that information in the future since it is posted to a different topic category and thus can't be searched.

Clearly not every case of straying from the original topic is harmful, but in the overall scheme of things I think that keeping a tight rein on things is really in everybody's best interest. Having fun is OK, but the bottom line is that isn't what the blog is all about.

wjwoodward wrote:

You're clearly mistaken that Expat-blog is simply a "Question & Answer" Forum, far from it. Exactly how many forums have you actually looked at? From what I can see is that aside from your postings here on the "Help us improve the website" Forum that ALL of you other postings (except one single posting on the Sweden Forum) have been on the Viet Nam Forum. Are you judging ALL of Expat-blog on one forum? 

There are lots of ongoing discussions on various topics an most of the national forums. Members also arrange Expat-blog meet-ups, etc.

As far as your comment about "find a way to keep a loyal following"... Son let me tell you one thing from personal experience of somebody who has been around the block a few times and devotes a whole lot of volunteer time and energy to Expat-blog. The blog is over 7 years old now, has been growing and changing all that time, always for the better and the membership is constantly growing....... I don't think Julien has anything to worry about in terms of a loyal following.

But, that was really a good one..... made my day!

Do you have a habit of shooting down suggestions?  I notice this "suggestions" forum isn't used very much/often by regular users.  Maybe they're scared they'll get "psssst, you inexperienced moron...how dare you ask a question like that?" responses.  Fresh ideas often come from new people who often ask stupid questions.

By the way, calling me "Son let me tell you one..." is condescending.  We're not that amicable with each other yet...otherwise, I'd call you an old fart and you wouldn't get offended.

wjwoodward wrote:

...
That said what I'm talking about and the main reason for keeping postings ON TOPIC is the need for other members to be able to access that information in the future.
...

I think the new V5 will make all our problems go away.  A VISA search would give someone an answer even if the answer is in the middle of an off-topic blab fest since it'll zero in on the answer to the inquiry/search instead of having to wade through countless posts.

But I think in general though, many of the questions, at least on my forum are answered by Expats who are eager to help within 10 replies.

QA/QC Alert!  Somebody please fix the "Anwser recommended by the community" typo.

If you need a reason for not letting OFF TOPIC postings get carried away just look at reply #9 and #10 on the following thread:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=322270

Now really folks, this isn't rocket science. It doesn't take an Albert Einstein or a Werner Von Braun to see that this one isn't going to get an answer to her question, even if anybody else by some strange twist of fate even finds it.

wjwoodward wrote:

As I pointed out if I simply post some really important information about visas to a topic posting about schooling there is absolutely no way whatsoever for anybody to access that information in the future since it is posted to a different topic category and thus can't be searched.

Most of the topics that stay at the top of the page are those with running conversations.  A topic that asks a question and gets an answer usually floats down to the bottom.  If the answers are especially good then maybe it should be a sticky or merged with stickies that already exist on the same subject.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

Do you have a habit of shooting down suggestions?  I notice this "suggestions" forum isn't used very much/often by regular users.  Maybe they're scared they'll get "psssst, you inexperienced moron...how dare you ask a question like that?" responses.  Fresh ideas often come from new people who often ask stupid questions.

You weren't asking me, but the answer is yes and no.  Suggestions are often dismissed offhand - especially if they're from newer members.  At the same time, a lot of the suggestions from newer members are complaints/misunderstanding of the spam policy and completely crazy ideas that would just never work.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

QA/QC Alert!  Somebody please fix the "Anwser recommended by the community" typo.

I stopped pointing out typos a long time ago.  People don't like it when you correct their misteaks.













Anyone want to take the bait?

wjwoodward wrote:

If you need a reason for not letting OFF TOPIC postings get carried away just look at reply #9 and #10 on the following thread:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=322270

Now really folks, this isn't rocket science. It doesn't take an Albert Einstein or a Werner Von Braun to see that this one isn't going to get an answer to her question, even if anybody else by some strange twist of fate even finds it.

I don't think post #9 is a question, so I doubt anyone will answer.

I don't see what's wrong with post #10.

The postings were removed because they were completely off topic.

The member, from Australia, asked about the cost of a wedding in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Obviously something that would get flooded with answers on this particular topic posting!

Silly me, I actually thought that they spoke English in Australia and that the member would understand the thrust of the thread. Obviously I was wrong.

tough one - I'll post very soon

wjwoodward wrote:

The postings were removed because they were completely off topic.

So what you said doesn't make any sense because something was deleted.  Do you think it might be better if instead of being totally gone and different posts having those post numbers, there was some kind of note that those posts were removed?

Hailey,

You know only too well that WE cannot moderate or delete posts. When I posted the particular reply the thread had not been moderated and I really had no idea that it would be. So you're saying that I should not have posted because what I said now makes no sense since the material was deleted? Sorry, I just really am having a hard time following you on this one. Just consider my reply as being off topic.... that way it won't mean so much.

What I'm saying is that when posts are deleted, there should be some form of moderator notation that lets everyone know that a post that once existed is no more.  As it is now, when posts are deleted, there is no way for anyone to know that anything was ever there.  Then when someone references that deleted post – as you did above – it doesn't make any sense.  Maybe I'm alone on this, but I like it when things make sense.

There's no way you or I or anyone can know which posts will be deleted in the future, so obviously we can't know not to reference something that will soon be gone.

I've said this before and I'm not sure how much simpler I can explain it.  Moderators should
#1 – Not delete posts as a first option.
#2 – Try to understand the post and the context it's in before deletion.
#3 – Put something in the place of a deleted post.  For example: "Moderated: post deleted".

I don't understand why that's so hard to understand.

On that particular thread there was a moderators notation that some off topic postings had been removed. The only thing that thus didn't make sense was actually the reply #s. Since what I posted didn't match anything there it was rather obvious that those were the postings that were deleted, at least that's what it certainly would have led me to believe.

Cheers,
James

Never mind.  Everything is perfect as is.  There is no need for anyone to try to improve anything.